Update & Corrected Running Costs

[Mindi]

Your dealer is not doing you any favors, My dealer sells me the small bottle for $55 and a drum for $230... But having good friends in the industrie, I can get cheaper then that again...

What quantities are they Jabba..? I am not an Etec (or 4 stroke) owner so dont actually buy it

[Mindi]

Hi John,

yes it got shrunk in the upload because the length exceeded 600 pixels. I have rescanned it into 2 parts and re-posted in my original thread and also here. A bit easier to read now!

Cheers

Dave

Dave

I attach the links to my original manufacturers data which show (IMHO) that Andrew is not correct and that a 4 stroke at 1500rpm actually uses less than half a DI. In fact the Suzi uses 0.5 GPH or 11.2 MPG if you prefer that. The DI Etec uses 1.05 GPH and 5.4 MPG.....this is more what you would expect I think.
The comparison is not perfect as the hulls are different and the Suzuki one is probably a bit more easily driven ...but in this case that would be a minor issue.

see

http://www.evinrude.com/NR/rdonlyres...35/0/PE501.pdf

http://www.suzukimarine.com/boat_bui...ass_boat/df70/

But I dont think the data supports hair splitting over decimal places....I am reaching the conclusion that a 4 stroke uses about 20% less fuel across the board cf. a comparable DI ... and that seems to make sense to me..? The idea that a DI uses much less at trolling speeds doesnt really ring true...and isnt supported by this example at least.
But it is interesting...plan to ask on a really excellent Etec focussed forum which is well worth a look.

http://forums.etecownersgroup.com/mb...l?forum=115573

[Getout]

My 175 outboard cruises at 20-26l/hr but has averaged only 12litres /hr for its 200 engine hrs so far.
I don't do a huge amount of trolling but have spent a bit of time sounding around.
I don't think running costs can be evaluated using cruising speed consumption figures.

[finding_time]

.
I don't think running costs can be evaluated using cruising speed consumption figures.

Spot on Getout! 1/4 or less of my hours over summer are cruise speed hrs at 11l per/hr x 2 but most are at 2000 rpm and less than 4l per/hr. Then there's servicing costs. i'm certainly not paying the $500 PLUS per engine bandied around by some.

Plus once the engines are out of waranty self servicing is a real option! Well for the ones that dont require a computer and soft ware that is!

[Silverslug]

In relation to the ETEC oil , just purched one and the first thing the dealer said was to bring a empty 5 litre bottle to get the filled for $50, that is out of his 200ltr drum i cant see why all Etec dealers cant do the same. I know fuel is getting dearer but if you own a boat of any size and motor and you a worring about the fuel i would suggest you sell it, because no matter 2 stroke or 4stroke you are never going to be happy

[Jabba_]

What quantities are they Jabba..? I am not an Etec (or 4 stroke) owner so dont actually buy it

A bottle is 3.7lt @ $55 and a drum is 19lt at $230... RRP is $80 and $315 accordingly... Never have I seen the oil sold at those prices.....

[marco]

In relation to the ETEC oil , just purched one and the first thing the dealer said was to bring a empty 5 litre bottle to get the filled for $50, that is out of his 200ltr drum i cant see why all Etec dealers cant do the same. I know fuel is getting dearer but if you own a boat of any size and motor and you a worring about the fuel i would suggest you sell it, because no matter 2 stroke or 4stroke you are never going to be happy

who is the dealer ?

[marco]

A bottle is 3.7lt @ $55 and a drum is 19lt at $230... RRP is $80 and $315 accordingly... Never have I seen the oil sold at those prices.....

thanks jabba , im on the hunt for a better deal .

your prices work out at

3.7lt is 14.86 / ltr

19 ltr is 12.10/ltr
better but still not 11.50 in the first equation

[Silverslug]

Hi Macro, I live in Hervey Bay and i have it in writting on the invoice i got with the motor $50 and i took a empty 5ltr Valvolene bottle in the next day and it was filled to the 5ltr mark on the measuring window. I would be asking a few questions of your dealer, he not doing you any favours if you purchased a Etec from him. This is the price my dealer charges all his customers .

[Outsider1]

Dave

I attach the links to my original manufacturers data which show (IMHO) that Andrew is not correct and that a 4 stroke at 1500rpm actually uses less than half a DI. In fact the Suzi uses 0.5 GPH or 11.2 MPG if you prefer that. The DI Etec uses 1.05 GPH and 5.4 MPG.....this is more what you would expect I think.
The comparison is not perfect as the hulls are different and the Suzuki one is probably a bit more easily driven ...but in this case that would be a minor issue.

see

http://www.evinrude.com/NR/rdonlyres...35/0/PE501.pdf

http://www.suzukimarine.com/boat_bui...ass_boat/df70/

But I dont think the data supports hair splitting over decimal places....I am reaching the conclusion that a 4 stroke uses about 20% less fuel across the board cf. a comparable DI ... and that seems to make sense to me..? The idea that a DI uses much less at trolling speeds doesnt really ring true...and isnt supported by this example at least.
But it is interesting...plan to ask on a really excellent Etec focussed forum which is well worth a look.

http://forums.etecownersgroup.com/mb...l?forum=115573

Hi Mindi,

I think it big call to say Andrew Norton does not know his stuff!? He has tested just about every outboard out there, often on a long term basis and he takes indepth full usage figures. He reports them in great detail, and has for years. He also made the comment about the E-Tec 150, whereas you are comparing a Suzy 70 and a E-Tec75!!??

I know nothing about the Suzuki 70 and very little about the E-Tec 75. I agree if you use those two reports then they support your contention, but that is a pretty big bow to draw to then say a DI 2 stroke uses about 20% more fuel than a comparable 4 stroke, based on 2 reports from manufacturers sites on two different boats. If that was true (across the board) do you think they would be selling as many DI 2 strokes as they do!?

I am not looking to defend DI's, let the facts speak for themselves. I suspect on average they do use slightly more than a 4 stroke, but not 20% on the evidence I have seen. It is the trade off for the greater torque and holeshot that you expect from the DI 2 stroke. For example I have seen a thread on another forum which I think you were also involved in where a dealer stated that the E-Tec 75 is actually putting out 82hp. If that is true, then you would definitely expect it to use more fuel than the Suzuki 70, possibly +17% perhaps being 82hp vs 70hp ie +17%, hope you see my point.

As to how you allow for it in the spreadsheet, I have a few thoughts. I will PM you to get a copy and have a look.

Still think this will be a worthwehile exercise if we can get flexibility in the calculations to allow for differing usages etc.

Cheers

Dave

[Outsider1]

I know of a dealer in Sydney that is doing the bulk oil refills deal also at similar prices, but unfortunately don't know of any in SE Qld.

I have picked my XD100 up for $55 per US gallon (3.78 litres) so far.

Cheers

Dave

[Greg P]

Hi Mindi,

I think it big call to say Andrew Norton does not know his stuff!? He has tested just about every outboard out there, often on a long term basis and he takes indepth full usage figures. He reports them in great detail, and has for years.

Dave - you do know that this guy got the arse from F&B for shall we say poorly researched engine tests.


Not saying he is wrong here but dont hold him up as a guru regarding outboard reporting



Cheers

Greg

[Outsider1]

Dave - you do know that this guy got the arse from F&B for shall we say poorly researched engine tests.


Not saying he is wrong here but dont hold him up as a guru regarding outboard reporting



Cheers

Greg

News to me Greg. I have read F & B for years and do not recall every seeing him write anything in there?. He has been the Boating Editor for Saltwater Fishing since inception. Did not think I was holding him up as a guru??

Cheers

Dave

[John_R]

The DI 2 strokes use stratified charge to reduce fuel usage at low revs. The ETEC uses it up to about 1800 rpm then changes to a homogeneous mixture. I think this is how they get better results than a four stroke at low revs.

[Mindi]

thanks jabba , im on the hunt for a better deal .

your prices work out at

3.7lt is 14.86 / ltr

19 ltr is 12.10/ltr
better but still not 11.50 in the first equation

Yeah obviously my $11.50 was pretty hopeful. I got it from someone else's post on here somewhere but now cant find it. Probably not all that significant a difference. Thanks Jabba.