ciguatera

[Thedoc]

Rule of thumb if its Big stay away from it and put it back took much toxin accumu lated especially in the worst groups ie Spanish mackeral and Coral trout.
Try the cat first, mines dead already !!!!!!!!!!!!
I had a lady in, years back with classical symptoms of ciguatera ie tingling around her mouth and hot / cold reversal after eating Mangrove jack from the supermarket. Yes one of those great big imported fillets. She had some left in the fridge we got it tested, positive for ciguatera. Apparently customs cant and dont DNA test imported fillets I suspect it was Red bass or Chinaman fish we will never know.

[Bilopete]

Hi everyone,
My job requires me to investigate cases of ciguatera in the CQ region. In the past 18 months there have been 3 reported incidents. While Hervey Bay is considered a hot spot the three local cases I investigated were related to fish caught off Yeppoon (2 were charter trips a fair distance out and the 3rd was from a fish caught off 5 rocks.

All the major symptons have been identified already. If you insist on eating a nice big predatory fish over 8kgs, make sure you sample a bit of meat 1st instead of hoing into a nice big fillet. Take a few small bites and wait to see if you get any tingling / numbness around the mouth. If you do, feed it to the cat or give the fillets to somebody you don't like!

I DPI (Fisgeries) recently recieved funding to try and develop a simple test to check for ciguatera but don't hold your breath. I have been sending fish samples with ciguatera to them over the past 18 months for analysis / testing while they have been trying to obtain funding for the research.

Cheers

Bilopete

[Spaniard_King]

Bill,

How long after eating an infected sample would you expect to have some symptoms??

After having been infected myself and doing a fair bit of research which included a conversation with QLD Health I am of the opinion the only way for us to come close to predicting an infectious fish is to cut a peice of liver from the fish and place it under your toungue.. tingling sensations should take no longer than 2-3 minutes to be initiated if the fish is infected

Personally I now taste test any suspect fish leaving at least a 6 hour period for symtoms to occur before declaring the fish .. "a good one"

[thirks]

i know of a fisho who poisoned himself and family with a large blue parrot from moreton bay. but as it is a residual toxin a feed from the same fish can affect different people to varying degrees.in some parts of micronesia fish from one side of a reef are deadly but on the other side fine to eat.large fish of any species have a potential risk

[Outsider1]

The problem with Ciguatera, as I understand it, is it builds up in your body over time, the same way it builds up in the carrier fish.

So you can have mild doses of it and not notice or only have a mild reactions, but then next time you ingest some and you get to a threshold contamination level it is wham!

As mentioned alcohol consumption will sets it off. And once you have built up to a higher level contamination then it will take a long time to diminish. So even ingestion of a very mild dose will set it off again ie. it lingers for a long time.

Cheers

Dave

[Bilopete]

Hi,

I haven't had cigiatera poisoning myself but people I have interviewed have stated they had a tingling in the mouth only after 5-10 minutes. The other common symptons often take a few more hours to manifest. The rapidness of the main symptoms is dependant on 2 factors, the level of toxin in the fish and the quantity of fish you consume.

For the interviews I did, symptons were fairly rapid (i.e. 4-8hrs later) while others took up to 24 hours.

By the way, I did hear today that the DPI researcher has now developed a field test for ciguatera toxin in fish but she believes it is not viable to test all known species of fish for ciguatera before the fish it is processed and distributed to retailers.

Could have good potential for charter operators though...especially to prevent any future legal action against them!

Cheers

Peter

Bill,

How long after eating an infected sample would you expect to have some symptoms??

After having been infected myself and doing a fair bit of research which included a conversation with QLD Health I am of the opinion the only way for us to come close to predicting an infectious fish is to cut a peice of liver from the fish and place it under your toungue.. tingling sensations should take no longer than 2-3 minutes to be initiated if the fish is infected

Personally I now taste test any suspect fish leaving at least a 6 hour period for symtoms to occur before declaring the fish .. "a good one"

[Bilopete]

I have never heard of the ciguatera toxin building up in humans over time but I stand to be corrected. Poisoning is often linked to a single incident of consuming certiain species of fish, often over a certain weight. Again it depends on the amount of toxin in the fish and how you consume of that fish.

Mild(er) reactions can often occur for a period of time after you have experienced ciguatera poisoning. That's why authorities and health specialists often advise what foods to stay away from and unfortunately this includes saltwater fish and alcohol as well .

Cheers

Pete

The problem with Ciguatera, as I understand it, is it builds up in your body over time, the same way it builds up in the carrier fish.

So you can have mild doses of it and not notice or only have a mild reactions, but then next time you ingest some and you get to a threshold contamination level it is wham!

As mentioned alcohol consumption will sets it off. And once you have built up to a higher level contamination then it will take a long time to diminish. So even ingestion of a very mild dose will set it off again ie. it lingers for a long time.

Cheers

Dave

[Outsider1]

Hi Pete,

My understanding comes from talking to individuals who have suffered Ciguatera poisoning. The follow CSIRO article (see the last paragraph) also suggests that it is possible that it accumulates, but I have not yet found a definitive medical source on accumulation.

http://www.publish.csiro.au/?act=vie...id=NB94025.pdf

Cheers

Dave

[Bilopete]

Hi Dave,
I just checked up the Qld Health Website for ciguatera (below) but the link to the fact sheet is broken. I know I have it saved the factsheet at work and try to remember to get it on monday.

If I do then I will post up what it states.

Cheers

Pete

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/goodhea.../ciguatera.asp

[davo]

You can get test kits from the DPI. Has anyone used them?

[Mangfish]

i heard white vinegar kills it

[gogetter]

Makes winter whiting look great... Hey.

Chris

except they are toooooooooooooo small..... get a real fillet into ya...

[gogetter]

Rule of thumb if its Big stay away from it and put it back took much toxin accumu lated especially in the worst groups ie Spanish mackeral and Coral trout.
Try the cat first, mines dead already !!!!!!!!!!!!
I had a lady in, years back with classical symptoms of ciguatera ie tingling around her mouth and hot / cold reversal after eating Mangrove jack from the supermarket. Yes one of those great big imported fillets. She had some left in the fridge we got it tested, positive for ciguatera. Apparently customs cant and dont DNA test imported fillets I suspect it was Red bass or Chinaman fish we will never know.

lesson too everyone... don't eat or buy imported fish.......

[champion]

So ita a bad 6-12 months when you get it...But once you get it (poisoning) does it stay with you for life, or can your body overcome it?

cheers
joe

[Spaniard_King]

So ita a bad 6-12 months when you get it...But once you get it (poisoning) does it stay with you for life, or can your body overcome it?

cheers
joe

Joe,

I had it just over 2 years ago, The routine is.. no fish, alcohol, nuts and should avoid chicken and pork (as these are fed fish pellets ) for 3 months (must be strictly adhered to or relapse will occur) Then no warm water fish for an aditional 3 months. We also took 4000mg of Vitamin B12 a day.

This website explains a lot http://www.holistichealthtopics.com/HMG/ciguatera.html