to buy share or hire (in brisbane) - your advice please

[will vanderhoff]

Hi All, first time poster long time reader. And I could do with some advice to see through the hype of buying / owing a boat.

I am in a bit of quandary as to what do do about boating in the Brisbane area.
The reality is with work and two kids who have sport most time of the year I don't see us using a boat more than once or twice a month on average. The kids will want to do some skiing with their friends and the wife and I enjoy the thought of throwing the odd line in and picnics at peel and straddie. However it is a big investment and getting a boat in and out from the yard could be a bit of a pain. (can we wash a boat in Bris again or still banned?)

Size wise i think a bowrider/cuddy style boat 5 - 7 meters inboard or outboard.

So what is the best value.

If we buy out right our budget is around 40K for new .
Then of course I have to budget for serving and maintenance of which I have no idea.
The resale in this band seems to be very low aprox 30-40% after 3 years so a big loss if we then turn the boat over. do boat yards work the same as car yards and buy/resell at about 60% of the projected secondhand value?

One of the alternatives I have seen are boat share. This is a lower outlay but the management fees seem very high and I still have the liability that if the boat is damaged by the other owners then the overall value of the boat goes down. Add i know my luck so my rostered weekend will always fall on one that I have to work, so rearranging with the other owners will have to be done. The overall price seems like a 20% premium on the purchase price but they look after the servicing and sea worthiness of the vessel.

The last option is hire. I have been looking on line and have found two different options here. The first is for larger boats 8.5mts and up(mustang's). Aprox 700 per day plus fuel. These would probably be a bit large for me to handle as my experience is not that great yet, but may be ok in a few years. Also can you water ski behind these types of boats and whats the fuel economy like?
The second is with a company that does bowriders. According to their web site they do single days for 375 per day but if i buy more days to use over a year period they are cheaper. They recommend a six day deal as best value at 325 per day. If i read it right they have the boats on water the same as the larger boats so i wont have to tow it and they do the cleaning. I have seen some others that are a bit cheaper and make cleaning an option but i would have to pick the boat up and tow it. The up keep and maintenance is their responsibility which is good and the boats on the site look good(dont have a for hire sign on them).

While my heart says buy a shiny new pride and joy my account training says boat share or hire.
So chaps and capetts let me offer 2c for your thoughts.

[tigermullet]

Well, you could get a thousand responses to those questions and become very confused. I would.

Your assessment of cost is absolutely correct. Boats cost - lots generally.

But a boat is not just a thing, it is a way of life and each boat has its own personality. They can be reviled or loved and the first purchase is either a learning experience or something that will turn you off the water for life.

Unless you are very lucky the first boat will not suit over the long term but, if you choose fairly well, will give experience and eventually lead to the boat that suits.

I have regretted buying only one boat because of a hasty decision brought on by a (perceived) pressing need to get back on the water. Some of the boats (and there have been many) have been owned in partnership with my brother. That partnership worked very well but I could not imagine entering a partnership with any other person.

I have never thought of hiring or entering something like time share on the basis that a 'relationship' could not be formed with the boat.

A boat lives, it is a companion and a friend. Someone to talk to when everyone else has abandoned you.

They make a very comfortable dog house at times and don't mind if you have had one beer too many.

Unlike someone I could mention, but won't because Mother's day has just gone by.

[datamile]

I've got s/h 525 bowrider and its great fun but with a family and work I expect you'll only get out 10-15 times a year, and this is why you'll see lots of 3-5 year of boats with 50 hours only on the clock. I expect s/h prices to drop with the state of the market, and you could pick up one up for 25-28K

Agreed it you look at a boat in sheer money terms then its just not worth it, and its a very expensive lawn ornament most of the year. Add in servicing, insurance and depreication, petrol costs and your'll never do it.

In your position I'd rent a few times if you get the boat on busy weekends, and see if it works.

Boat shares are great if it actually works out, but you may have issues with the times that you want to use it, and what happens with damages / cost etc, otherwise everyone would do it. We sometimes wish we had a mate with a boat who we could throw a couple of beers, petrol money and little extra, and share their boat for the odd family weekend to peel, or fishing with the boats.

[Cheech]

I think you may be better off to hire for a while. At least then you will get to use a boat a bit, which will in turn give you a better idea of what sort and size you would like if you do decide to buy.

If you did buy first up and then decide to sell it if it was not right, or not used enough, you would probably loose at least a few grand on the re-sale, which would cover your share/hire cost anyway.

[mik01]

why you would buy a brand new boat for your first boat I can't understand.

Spend 10 - 20 or so and get a second hand boat in your size range. selected carefully, you will get a reliable boat that won't kill you on re-sale.
in fact, with the way the economy is you should find it easier to sell if needed, rather than a 40k boat.

plus, you should expect to put a few dings and scratches on it due to your level of experience.

Tigermullet was bang on - a boat is more than a 'vehicle'. It's a total luxury that allows you to get away from it all, its a holiday, its a special thing in your life that will bring your family many hours of joy. Its many things, but in my opinion its not a 'share' or 'hire' thing. (unless shared with a mate or family).

I can't see how, if you go out once a month, that you would save hiring over owning? $375 per day ($4500/yr)! (does that include fuel?)
Adding up insurance, rego, fuel, servicing, maintenance, depreciation you would still be about even, and you get to have it the way you want it.

owning a boat is, for me, not about dollars. Think seriously about buying a cheaper boat and see if its for you - if not, you can sell and only be out of pocket a small amount.

[TimiBoy]

Couldn't agree more Cheech.

Given the early stage of your progress into the lifestyle, I'd say you probably need a fair amount of time, experience and understanding to go under the bridge before you buy anything (apart from skis, ropes and a big innertube).

Once you really know what you want, and have a better understanding of how real life always gets in the way of days planned on he water, you will be able to more accurately plan your purchase.

Above all, before you get on the water, take the time to comprehend how damned bloody dangerous it can be if you are not prepared mentally to be responsible! Get a license (do you have to to hire?) and go slow for a while. Keep your eyes WWWWIIIIDDDDEEE because some folks out there seem to be trying to kill you! Experience largely mitigates the danger, but not completely.

And I wouldn't try skiing behind an 8 metre boat unless you own an oil company!

I would never buy a share, I like to be able to do what I want, when I want (within the law of course) and, as said below, it can be a recipe for disaster.

You can't look at the boat depreciation as a cost. It is simply the price you pay for getting into the greatest lifestyle known to mankind!

[boatboy50]

Hi Will,

Hiring does make a very strong case. You can used it when you want without hassles, you can use a different boat each time depending on what you are doing that day, you don't have to tow it unless you want to, you can simply leave it at the end of use and it costs you nothing if the weather turns crap for a while and you don't use it.

Share schemes have never been good in my opinion. Running costs are expensive, you still deal with depreciation, you have to battle with timing issues ect ect.

Check out this hire company based on the Gold Coast. www....hireboats....com...au.
You can take the boat with trailer or in the water, and there is a few styles of boat to choose from. They can go to any location, and are cheaper than the others you have mentioned.

Regards

Darren

[wiz]

I would have to agree with the hire option, for your situation.

Very cheap way to enjoy boating occassionally

[sharkymark2]

Hire would be a great way of knowing what boat is best for you. I have Tuesday's and Wednesdays off and boat share would be the best option for me. I tried to talk the guys at work to do it. Would certainly work out a lot cheaper. If you use it on weekends then it makes it harder to work. Best of luck. You should try to launch one sometimes as that might open your eyes to what size boat you want to purchase.

[Outsider1]

Yes hiring is certainly a good option first up.

- You can try different styles of boats to find out what suits you best.

- You can confirm that boating is really for you and your family before you make the big commitment.

- You can test realistically how often you will actually use it (remember weather is also a factor).

- You can get an idea of the type of options you might want on your boat.

- You will get to meet other boaties and get their help and advice before you make that big commitment.

I do a similar thing when I am buying a house in a new area. I always rent in the area first for 6 months to check out that is what we want and expect in terms of schools, shopping, transport etc etc. You can then take your time looking for exactly what you want.

Cheers

Dave

[disorderly]

why you would buy a brand new boat for your first boat I can't understand.

Spend 10 - 20 or so and get a second hand boat in your size range. selected carefully, you will get a reliable boat that won't kill you on re-sale.
in fact, with the way the economy is you should find it easier to sell if needed, rather than a 40k boat.

plus, you should expect to put a few dings and scratches on it due to your level of experience.

Tigermullet was bang on - a boat is more than a 'vehicle'. It's a total luxury that allows you to get away from it all, its a holiday, its a special thing in your life that will bring your family many hours of joy. Its many things, but in my opinion its not a 'share' or 'hire' thing. (unless shared with a mate or family).

I can't see how, if you go out once a month, that you would save hiring over owning? $375 per day ($4500/yr)! (does that include fuel?)
Adding up insurance, rego, fuel, servicing, maintenance, depreciation you would still be about even, and you get to have it the way you want it.

owning a boat is, for me, not about dollars. Think seriously about buying a cheaper boat and see if its for you - if not, you can sell and only be out of pocket a small amount.

I have to agree with the dolphin lover here.
Second hand is the way to go first up....it will ease you into the world of boating and boat ownership.
Even if you decide boating is not for you or you decide to upgrade then a boat in that 10-20 grand price range will possibly give you back most of your initial outlay.

Scott

[BM]

If you buy a s/hand boat at the right price Will then you can resell for a profit or at least for your outlay so you wold be cost nuetral.

Theres plenty of boats for sale that are selling below what they are potentially worth.

cheers

[will vanderhoff]

Thank you all, best 24cents I have ever spent - heres 25c keep the change

I have always thought that new is better than used when you don't know a lot about the subject. If something does go wrong then at least I can go to the yard/manufacturer and get them to fix it or at least talk me through what I am doing wrong. Second hand is that gamble, as a buyer your betting that the seller has told you the truth and all is at face value, as a seller you hope the little things that have been buffed and polished will add more value than might otherwise be there. BM I might take a look at your manual, sounds like a good starting point for the sH market. Agreed, there seems to be some great bargains but even 20k if its a dog is a big loss.

I think you guys are right when you say the word "lifestyle". Thats what I want, to be able to get away from it all when I need to. I have had my license for a while just never used it, so on reflection I am going to go with the hire option for now. Six days is going to cost me $1950 (325 per day) so if we do go 12 times in the next year (now that brings a smile to my face, just the thought of away from it for a day a month) then it will be a little under 4k.

But again it is the word lifestyle that has done it for me. I just love the idea of not having to tow it, worry about the busy ramp and not having to think about cleaning it or storing it. The only thing left is to ask if others have had any good / bad experience with the company. they are based in Cleveland called Pirate Waters. Spoke with them this morning and they seem, on face value, good to deal with. Are their any others that do the bowrider style? Seems like the hire market is a bit thin on the water?

Thank you all again for your time, these type of forums make you feel like you have actually sat around a table and had a good discussion and not out there on your own. Hope to bump in to you on the water soon.

Will

[BM]

I have always thought that new is better than used when you don't know a lot about the subject. If something does go wrong then at least I can go to the yard/manufacturer and get them to fix it or at least talk me through what I am doing wrong. Second hand is that gamble, as a buyer your betting that the seller has told you the truth and all is at face value, as a seller you hope the little things that have been buffed and polished will add more value than might otherwise be there. BM I might take a look at your manual, sounds like a good starting point for the sH market. Agreed, there seems to be some great bargains but even 20k if its a dog is a big loss.

This is why you pay for an inspection prior to purchasing. I don't know anyone that does inspections at your end of the country. No doubt a fellow QLD'er will know. Make sure they are competent and this removes the risk out of buying s/hand boats.

I and a good mate are the 2 main providers in Melb and we steer people into good used boats often. Rarely do I inspect a boat that doesn't have some sort of issue going on and that either kills the deal (if its major) or it is a price negotiating point. We regularly get good prices for our customers because owners can see that an independant third party is assesing the boat and more often than not they accept the issues that are presented and are happy to negotiate accordingly.

Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 attempts to get the right boat for someone and of course that costs them each time but in my experience the boat they buy is usually the same money they wanted to spend but its worth thousands more in real value than the first boat they looked at.

I recall a customer a little while ago that wanted to spend about 7K and the first boat we looked at was rubbish and I would not have spent 2K on it. After a few phone chats about various boats he ended up spending his 7K on a boat that he could have resold for 12K!!

Cheers

[mik01]

I have to agree with the dolphin lover here.
Second hand is the way to go first up....it will ease you into the world of boating and boat ownership.
Even if you decide boating is not for you or you decide to upgrade then a boat in that 10-20 grand price range will possibly give you back most of your initial outlay.

Scott

ha!
you can trust a dolphin lover!!!!