boat licensing

[Chimo]

Hi Roz

My late Dad summed it up pretty well even though at the time i may not have agreed with him
"Your born stupid with no common sense, eventually you get smarter and may or may not get some sense and then you die, possibly stupid and usually with heaps of common sense."

If you add grog to the mix and a dash of stupidity and a desire to impress females and or maybe some males too and then things at night in an arena that is not all that friendly then you have the potential for a disaster. Licence of not will make little difference as one person affected by tiredness and or grog will turn someone elses workplace into an even more difficult and dangerous place to be.

The lights on the water on Syd harbour make it hard at the best of times. Its bad enough going thru there in daylight.

Take the grog out of the night and there may not have been an issue apart from the alleged unauthorized use of equipment and alleged failure to comply with regs re loading and safety etc.

Its a bit like going out partying and drinking in any big city; there are many extra risks that depending on your stage of life you expose yourself too........... or not.

Mumblings of a GOM................

Cheers
Chimo

[roz]

I just would like to clarify a couple of points.

I don't think a license would help a boat driver who is stupid enough to be ten parts full ...... same goes for any type of vehicle.

It's just at the moment ANYONE can, in NSW navigate at boat, possibly up to 19.81 meters, without having the foggiest idea what a green channel marker means, what an isolated danger marker looks like, identify a cardinal marker and know what that means... also know which vessels have full right of way, and one of the most important rules (in my view) which way to steer, to avoid an approaching boat coming from the opposite direction?

Again, this is just my view.

But in my view the law as it is right now needs to be looked at.

thanks for you responses.

BTW What has this got to do with guns?????????

[Dreamweaver]

Roz,

Does that mean in NSW you don't have the equivalent of our Recreational Skipper's Ticket?

(you are certainly right about stupidity!)

[seatime]

My late Dad summed it up pretty well even though at the time i may not have agreed with him
"Your born stupid with no common sense, eventually you get smarter and may or may not get some sense and then you die, possibly stupid and usually with heaps of common sense."
Chimo

Pretty accurate summation of "common sense". Unfortunately 'sense' isn't a 'common' commodity.
'Common' sense is a learned and taught sense, it's not something that comes naturally with age. What may be common to you or I, isn't necessarily common to someone else, so if they haven't learned from experience, it needs to be taught to them, IMHO.
Licensing, whether it's boats or cars isn't meant to replace learned experiences and the confidence, and competence, that is developed over time. It's a very low standard implemented by authorities that's designed to provide the basic knowledge of operation to get a participant started. The experience and confidence they later gain ideally sets them up as a safe operator.
They're a licence to learn, IMHO.

Qld has a practical component in licensing that isn't present in all the other states, which I feel could be improved upon.
I like the idea of the Young Adult Licenses in some states outside of Qld. Why not get them involved at a young age and teach them right? Typically their parents are showing them the ropes and passing on their knowledge and experience.

The timing looks right for an overhaul of marine operations and licensing requirements in NSW, more people, more money, more boats, in all states not just NSW.
Why isn't there uniform licensing in Oz, isn't it time the state and territory marine agencies (members of NMSC) developed a plan, or are they afraid their little empires will crumble.

cheers

[PinHead]

I do not believe there is a relevance between car and boat licensing. You can easily fail a car driving license test. If you can comprehend some English you cannot fail a boat license test. Therein lies part of the problem..they give them away.

[Simmo2]

Roz,

Does that mean in NSW you don't have the equivalent of our Recreational Skipper's Ticket?

I think in QLD, if the motor is under 4 or maybe 6hp you do not need to comply with licencing and 'normal' safety reqs....

However anything bigger, regardless of its possible speed, would require at a minimum a rec lic.
I have heard of some millionaire fella trying to dock his new flybridge at a pontoon out at the reef here...
A skipper from another boat (charter) kicked him off the helm and berthed it for him. The very influencial owner of the flybridge had only a rec ticket and had absolutely no idea how to manouver his boat.

[Dreamweaver]

Yup Simmo! Like I said, any entry nautical qualification is just that; a basic introduction that doesn't really teach you to handle a boat. But it is a start.

Still; I'd like to know if NSW has a skippers ticket ?

[seatime]

Yup Simmo! Like I said, any entry nautical qualification is just that; a basic introduction that doesn't really teach you to handle a boat. But it is a start.

Still; I'd like to know if NSW has a skippers ticket ?

From NSW Maritime's website:

Boat Driver Licensing

• The speed at which a boat is driven determines whether a person needs to be licensed.
• Any person who drives a recreational powered vessel on NSW waters at a speed of 10 knots or more must have a boat driver’s licence.
• Ten knots is the speed at which most accelerating boats will start to plane – that is rise up and skim on top of the water instead of ploughing through it.
• The exception is anyone who drives a personal watercraft (PWC) at ANY speed must have a PWC Licence.

Types of Licence

General Licence


A licence for people aged 16 years and over to drive any vessel, except a PWC at 10 knots or more.

General Young Adult Licence

A restricted licence for those aged from 12 to under 16 years. A Young Adult Licensee must:

1. be accompanied by the holder of a General Licence when travelling at 10 knots or more
2. never exceed 20 knots
3. never travel at 10 knots or more after sunset and before sunrise
4. never travel at 10 knots or more when towing an aquaplaner
5. never tow a water skier or wake boarder
6. not drive in any race, display, regatta or exhibition without prior consent from the NSW Maritime and
7. never operate a PWC unless the holder of a Young Adult PWC Licence.

Personal Watercraft (PWC) Licence

A special licence is required to ride a PWC regardles of what speed it is driven. To obtain a PWC licence, the test for a General Licence must be passed first. Additional test questions must then be passed. Persons who hold a General Licence can upgrade to a PWC Licence at any time by undertaking the PWC Licence Boating Safety Course correctly answering additional questions.

Young Adult PWC Licence

A restricted licence for those aged from 12 to under 16 years who wish to drive a PWC. The same conditions which apply to the General Young Adult Licence apply to this licence. A Young Adult PWC Licence holder must be accompanied by a PWC Licence holder when operating at a speed of 10 knots or more.

Licence Period

A General Licence or PWC Licence is available for either 12 months or three years. You will save money by selecting a three year licence.
A one-year General Licence is issued as a paper licence and a three year licence as both a paper and plastic card. All PWC licences are issued as plastic photo identity cards.

How to Obtain a Licence

Anyone wishing to obtain a boat licence, must first undertake compulsory boating education either by studying an online Boating Safety Course, viewing a DVD/video Boating Safety Course or attending a Boating Safety Course conducted by NSW Maritime or an accredited agency. A nominal fee will apply.

[Lucky_Phill]

Quote " As it stands now, anyone without a license can operate a boat, as long as that boat does not exceed 10 knots.

I find this unacceptable. " Quote.

And so you should, Roz

As mentioned in above posts, Australia wide uniform laws in relation to Licences is required. I personally believe that anyone with-out a licence should not be " in charge " of a vessel, regardless of length , speed or HP.

The " tourist " laws do allow for other circumstances, but in the case of motor vehicles, you ALWAYS require a licence, tourist or not.

Historically, many of todays anglers / boaties have parents that have owned boats and therefore the experience ( common sense ) has been passed down. Unfortunately, there are huge numbers of boats hitting the waterways and many of them have skippers with no experience.

In Queensland, regulations were introduced some years ago for those that wanted a Marine Driver Licence:-

### In Queensland, a marine licence is required to operate a recreational boat which is powered by a motor greater than 4.5 kW (over 6 HP) and you must have a personal watercraft (PWC) licence to operate a PWC.


Obtaining a Queensland recreational marine driver licence

To obtain a Queensland recreational marine driver licence you must:

• be aged 16 years or older
• demonstrate you are competent to navigate and manage a recreational boat by successfully completing an approved BoatSafe licence training course
• provide satisfactory evidence of identity - a photographic Queensland driver licence (current or expired less than two years) is acceptable. ###

I think the Boatsafe Licence Training can be improved, although this is a step in the right direction.

Like a motor vehicle licence, the Marine Licence allows for a test/ course on calm water in basically safe and comfortable waterways ( gelsec may wish to add to this presumption ? ).

Give that 16 y/o a boat licence, borrow his Dad's 625 Cruisey and take several mates over a bar and offshore... disaster looming. Worse still , as stated above, add alcohol / darkness or bad weather.... !!!!!!

Yes I know, age is no barrier to lack of commonsense, judging by what one sees on the water, and in particular the Broadwater down the GC.

I know you cannot test a driver for their respective licences in all conditions that would be encountered throughout their driving careers, but certainly an improvement in current ' testing ' undertakings is needed.

ON a personal note, I have taken my kids ' boating ' and put them in control of my boat/ boats. This is under strict supervision and instruction given while doing so in regard to Beacons, other vessels, water conditions etc.... this done, my eldest daughter undertook a marine driver training course and gained her licence as soon as she hit 16. She was complimented on her boat driving ability and regulation knowledge.

No mention of guns

Cheers Phill

[Lucky_Phill]

Just a bit more info for Qlders

Unlicensed drivers

Unlicensed drivers may drive a boat provided a licensed driver is onboard supervising and is able to take immediate control of the boat. Unlicensed drivers must not operate boats while towing someone else by a line attached to the ship including for example, someone waterskiing or riding a toboggan or tube.





Queensland's virtual licence

In 2000, Maritime Safety Queensland changed from a paper-based boat licence to a virtual licence. Licence details are recorded in a computerised database which is accessible by on-water enforcement officers such as Water Police and Queensland Boating and Fisheries Patrol.
New licensees will only be issued with a printed confirmation statement verifying they hold a recreational marine driver licence if requested. The virtual licence is valid for life. All current Queensland recreational marine driver licences, (including the old speed boat driver's licence and recreational ship master's licence) automatically become life-time licences.
If you are going boating interstate, you should carry a confirmation statement as proof that you hold a Queensland licence.
Recreational marine driver licence holders are advised that proof of their licence may be required when hiring a vessel and the confirmation report serves this purpose.



Phill

[Dreamweaver]

The speed at which a boat is driven determines whether a person needs to be licensed.
Any person who drives a recreational powered vessel on NSW waters at a speed of 10 knots or more must have a boat driver’s licence.
Ten knots is the speed at which most accelerating boats will start to plane – that is rise up and skim on top of the water instead of ploughing through it.
The exception is anyone who drives a personal watercraft (PWC) at ANY speed must have a PWC Licence.

Sorry, but I find that basis for a boat licence bizarre - how can you possibly 100% police that? At any moment, people could exceed that speed.

[seatime]

Like a motor vehicle licence, the Marine Licence allows for a test/ course on calm water in basically safe and comfortable waterways ( gelsec may wish to add to this presumption ? ).

Cheers Phill

Some factors to consider when doing the RMDL course - the chosen location to undertake an approved course, the prevailing weather conditions on the day, and the type of vessel used for training (genuine maritime experience of the trainer is another possible factor).

We depart Manly Harbour and test the practical component in Partially Smooth Water. There isn't the luxury of choosing the weather on a Saturday, or any other day of a scheduled course, so we operate in any condition up to a Strong Wind Warning broadcast (25 knots).
The last few months have regularly seen 15-20 knot winds and 0.5-1.0 metre seas in Waterloo Bay around Green Is and towards Wellington Pt. We've run courses on each weekend.
If the student is intending to go boating in offshore waters, doing a course in a dam may not fully prepare them for the conditions they will encounter leaving port and venturing offshore. But that's the student's choice.

Boating is carried out in a dynamic environment and it's not possible to control weather conditions on the day of testing.
No-one is suggesting it's a perfect system but it's better than what went on before BoatSafe. Baby steps are required after completing a course.
How far should testing go, do we test at night, in torrential rain, in high powered craft at breakneck speeds, towing skiers, tiller steer, twin engine, bow thrusters?
What about towing trailers, why isn't that included in a car licence?

Students do at times fail the practical component, in fact they are found NYC (not yet competent). They return another day, or schedule some personal training if needed. Sometimes confidence or stage fright are a factor, and repeat manoeuvres are required.

As with any type of licensing, control of their actions is firmly in the hands of the operator after they've achieved the qualification.