The charter that almost ruined fishing

[Steve B]

Steve B

I think it is YOU who needs the reading lesson mate. (and one in spelling - if you're going to take people to task you need to clean your glass house first). Nautilus clearly states in his opening post that he wanted a "deep sea" charter, and therefore C & R is extremely difficult for even the most experienced.

You then proceed to prattel on in a response to Dirtysanchez after having told the world that you have witnessed "big barra tossed in wheelie bins". You are right though when you imply that those opposed to us could "have their ammo from a few here".

You're one of them!

Dave

Yes, he did say deep see charter, a deep sea jigging charter, where C&R IS practiced! (someone stated that in a previous post) I have SEEN (not witnessed) big barra unfilleted in whellie bins, and up on the bank where yobbos have tossed them..yes. It disgusts me. I wish i had of witnessed it, I would have done something about it. I'm hoping the powers that be with the authority do read this. These people need to be made a lesson of by the law as individuals, not green groups who want to shut everything down ruining fishing for the likes of you and I who enjoy fishing and do the right thing.

what am I one of Dave??? conservationist, a bit, but not fanatical. Someone who hates seeing fish wasted..yes. I eat fish. I love it. I have been on charters and it doesnt bother me that we keep fish. thats why I go. I like charters, and I agree that most charter operators are responsible and care for their future! I also like catch and release too.

My only real concern with this thread was the roasting this bloke copped for telling his story and not having a full understanding of what goes on on a deep sea charter. he does now, and plenty have reminded him of that!
thats about it! Spell check compleeete.!!!

[Reel Nauti]

My last reply.

Steve, you are one that is supplying ammo mate.

If Nautilus or anyone wants to put up a thread and bag other fisherman/women and charter operators with his opinion, we, as members, are also entitled to our opinions. That what makes and keeps the site interesting. That is how we all learn.

Maybe those people on that charter managed to find someone or someway to fillet their catch and take it back to wherever they came from. Maybe it also opened their eyes to the garbage some people continue to feed the world that fish stocks are looming on extinction. Maybe it instilled in those customers on the charter a respect for the ability of the skipper and for providing them with value
for their money. I'd like to bet they're not bagging him. And maybe it instilled in them a passion and respect for a sport which we all hold so dearly. I see no losers from that charter experience.

Dave

[Steve B]

Dave this is my last reply too. I agree with everything you said in your post. In a nutshell, It was a good charter, the skipper did a great job. Everyone was happy to get a feed and mabey they did find some way of storing the fish. We will never know.

I beleive fish stocks are not as good as they used to be worldwide, and I totally agree that there is a massive scare mongering campaign going on from certain groups about the 'armagedon' of the fish stocks, and the fishing industry around the world . Thats why I do not support the views of some fanatical green groups.

I personally believe nautilus was given a hard time by 'experienced' fisherman in some posts for his 'lack of experience' with deep sea charters. I should have been more polite in my attempts to defend his reasoning which I understood and agreed with. Sorry for that.

The way I read it was he thought the C&R of jigging trips (which he originally thought he was getting) would also be applied to table eating species on this specific charter, and it wasn't.

His genuine concern for unnessessary fish killing anywhere, in any form of fishing is justified and worthy of respect if nothing else IMHO. We are all lucky to have our opinion..mine is spent!!

cheers steve

[banshee]

The fact that the under sized fish was not vented before it was tossed back says to me that these blokes were cowboys.

[FNQCairns]

The fact that the under sized fish was not vented before it was tossed back says to me that these blokes were cowboys.

100m thats about 11 atmospheres in total what do you think the cowboys could do that would make a difference?, when the fish is at equilibrium then yanked to the surface through 10atm in 2 minutes and the volume of all blood and cavity gas's are expanded 10 fold not to mention the 10 fold decrease in gas density as a result, no corporal body has even a remote chance of surviving past absolute and immediate brain death, if they swim away it will be a response mediated more by a pathway like a symathetic nervous system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_nervous_system
than any emotional belief we choose to divine them with.

cheers fnq

[banshee]

Mate I pull juvenile snapper out of 48 fathoms all the time,vented with a horse hypo they swim straight back down.Do they survive?I don't know,but they sure as shit don't float off for the birds.

[FNQCairns]

Mate I pull juvenile snapper out of 48 fathoms all the time,vented with a horse hypo they swim straight back down.Do they survive?I don't know,but they sure as shit don't float off for the birds.

None survive it's simply just not possible from great depths with anything that has a heart pumping in their chest, if you took a few hours to raise the fish there may be a chance - dunno. Even 40m under normal circumstances after venting is a long shot, it may survive past automated responses but almost certainly the smarts needed to survive past the first predator will be lacking.

Just because the fish looks like it's breathing the density of the gas available at such low pressure near the surface takes a lot of time for the fish to adapt to be able to diffuse into it's body.

Bit like taking a person straight from sea level to the top of Mount Everest in 2 minutes, it's not survivable experience for any human without great preparation even by those that have stood on the top before.

cheers fnq

[Simmo2]

I don't understand the last bit of your post.

Sorry Mate,
I was trying to indicate that there were 30 blokes on the charter, they each took home an amount of fish.... 'one would presume under their legal limit (bag limit)'.

The amount of fish and their/your 'holiday status'....ie living out of a suitcase for a few days, you believe that they had no way of utilising the catch???
This indeed would be a waste, if they threw the catch in a wheelie bin or similar. (But we dont know that do we???)

My reference about dropping by your place was that you saw a whole lot of fishermen on one boat, at one time.
If the 30 blokes, individually, showed you their days catch from their own boats or shoreline, each one of them that caught their limit or under you would no doubt congratulate on a good day out!
I think because you saw the charter boat do what it is in the water for, you have realised the 'easy' fishing aint for you.
Please dont think that I am having a go at you, I ain't!

Silly analogy: I love cows, I think they are so cute. So I choose to ignore the bullfights and rodeo's.

[banshee]

Some fish species suffer badly,some fish species suffer very little and some fish of the same species will suffer differently even when pulled from the same depth.A fish that displays the symptoms of the one in the photo will not survive,period, but a fish that has a mildly swollen gut with no distended stomach or popped eyes (I don't have a picture of one because I've never felt the need to photograph juvenile fish) from what Ive read has a better than average chance.Likewise fish such as Kingfish that will chase a school of baitfish to the surface from a hundred plus metres faster than you could pull them up on a line suffer little if any effect from barrotrauma.I have also seen Pearl Perch live quite happily in a large bait well for extended periods of time,sometimes hours,when it was thought an upgrade was possible.I'm sorry but I have little faith in your comparrison between fish and humans and will continue to vent and release as opposed to just dumping untill a reputable study has been done.

[FNQCairns]

Some fish species suffer badly,some fish species suffer very little and some fish of the same species will suffer differently even when pulled from the same depth.A fish that displays the symptoms of the one in the photo will not survive,period, but a fish that has a mildly swollen gut with no distended stomach or popped eyes (I don't have a picture of one because I've never felt the need to photograph juvenile fish) from what Ive read has a better than average chance.Likewise fish such as Kingfish that will chase a school of baitfish to the surface from a hundred plus metres faster than you could pull them up on a line suffer little if any effect from barrotrauma.I have also seen Pearl Perch live quite happily in a large bait well for extended periods of time,sometimes hours,when it was thought an upgrade was possible.I'm sorry but I have little faith in your comparrison between fish and humans and will continue to vent and release as opposed to just dumping untill a reputable study has been done.

Yeah some study would be good but they are really only needed for the shallower pulled species, a 10 times volume increase in all gasses over such a short time is akin to ramming flesh through with a spear at a vascular level, we cannot see the vascular and tissue damage etc but the understanding of the physical nature of tissue/cell/neurons just to name a few means just not survivable, from say 40m suspect a healthy whack of brain damage no matter what, it doesn't take much in any fish, most of the fish caught on TV from warm waters go back damaged after the camera shots and blurb to screen.
Coral trout can be caught in deep water, yet it is understood that to expect survival for live export I thnk 15m is the deepest depth they can be pulled from.
I could catch a fish that has a wide territorial depth range drop it down 100m hold there for 10min pull it up pop it's bag if needed then believe it has a good chance of survival back down at 20m, like kingfish etc it's about equilibrium and that takes time which the fish also needs to adapt to just like humans and breathing de-oxygenated air....anyway regardless, our efforts make little to no difference with recfishing by very nature such a low impact method that survive or not, the result will not be measurable, simply made a spot for competing members of the same species to fill with less effort/competition now needed to survive within the school/territory etc

cheers fnq