North Queensland Fisho's Abandoned

[Scott nthQld]

This link is to an article of today's Townsville Bulletin.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au...30_hpnews.html

It appears Greenie Garrett has once again done a backflip on ALP Policy and leaving many people out in the cold. He now wants to leave those with a criminal conviction from the previous GBRMPA Zoning laws, even though, people now caught doing the same thing only get a fine. He not only breaks election promises, but is now breaking a court order, which ordered the government to review and make ammendments for these people in December 2006. It seems now Garrett has got some kind of power he seems to think he is above the law and invinclible. He won't be showing his face in Townsville anytime soon, after this last visit, no amount of police protection will be able to stop the people he's screwed over from getting to him.

On another note, not fishing related, but this same visit to Townsville saw him also reject an offer to buy back land that is not only 'in need' of environmental protection (according to Townsville Greenies), but also has historical significance. There are bunkers used in WWII to fight the Japanese that are still there, so yet another kick in the teeth for North Queenslanders. This land was bought from the Howard Government by developers, and once an application had been feilded to Council, many in the Townsville community put in their hands, and their dollars to have it stopped siting environmental and historical significance. Since then the developers removed their application and after buying the land, offered it back to the Rudd Government at the SAME PRICE THEY PAID for it nearly 5 years ago.

[ellicat]

Another disgraceful result.

No surprises there

"Me too Me too Me too.....
Nah tricked ya's"

[FNQCairns]

Truly disgraceful if true, was watching with interest to see if he would amount to nothing more than bloody minded ,along the same vein as the Libs his party replaced.

Possibly those with particular criminal conviction could consider gaining yet another, one earnt not abused upon them this time, once you have one another one would make little difference either way I would assume.

This is exactly what happens when a minority group has no solid voter based backup and philosophically it's good this country still outlaws premeditated acts of murder.

We need chain of responsibility legislation.

cheers fnq

[volitans]

Yes FNQ, we're a complacent, almost apathetic lot. Almost like the "whinging Poms" we like to take the mickey out of but we seem to want to do a lot of whinging with no action ourselves.

I was interested in (the point of) your signature. Not commenting on the voracity but a POV to ponder.

At 45 I gained a BSc in Enviro Sc at JCU. I never used my qualifications because what I learned there was both scary & confusing plus I'm not a card carrying tree hugger.

Firstly, almost invariably every lecturer preferred 'kids' fresh from High School as opposed to we 'mature aged' students. Why? The answer might lie in a comment to me by a Head of Dept who said (as I queried why I got a below MY average B+ on a paper) "why do you MAS always want to question things? Why can't you be happy like the young ones?" I read this to believe he meant "we can tell/convince/sway/mould young minds (without question) to accept our way of thinking."

Secondly, with pt 1 in mind, you are rightly taught to err on the side of safety because if you are wrong you can make amends (eg if you don't limit take numbers and a species is overfished and is eliminated you can't get it back but v/v if you make the limit tight the worst that will happen is the species will grow).

Thirdly, with apathy in mind, if the average 'joe' is told things are going OK then nothing will change yet every fisho I've ever spoken to will tell you "it wasn't like this when I was a boy. The fishing was better back then". With this in mind maybe the claims of doom & gloom are designed to motivate the apathetic.

Finally (well not actually 'finally' just all I will put here) I don't know that anyone has the 'real/best/ideal/correct answer'. Much of the science here is hypothetical and the results will always be interpreted by bureaucrats who will never admit they're wrong and always feel a need to 'guide the uneducated' (here read 'flex their muscle/egos').

As I said, just a thought to ponder but I always keep in mind "it wasn't like this when I was a boy. The fishing was better back then".

[CreelReaper]

Hey Gaz,
Firstly, well done on the Bsc. mate. As a mature age myself I know how you feel.
To the question at hand I too believe this to be some political trickery/treachery. No one can or should put themselves above the law. The previous convictions would have been quashed only after considerable contemplation from the relevant authorities. As for Mr Garret himself??? Well what would you expect???
Do we fishoes as a general rule look and appear to be apathetic? Yep, you bet. It’s mostly inbred into us to be that way. It’s human nature. Could it be true that we collectively are apathetic because we are sick and tired of the bullcrap being bandied about by “scientists” and politicians?? I would tend to think so.

Maybe the “claims of doom and gloom” would be better served or received by the masses if the messages were in fact true and not full of said ‘bullcrap’.

To use your own words….

Thirdly, with apathy in mind, if the average 'joe' is told things are going OK then nothing will change yet every fisho I've ever spoken to will tell you "it wasn't like this when I was a boy. The fishing was better back then".

No truer words would generally be spoken mate. Just imagine what it would have been like when Cook first landed on these shores. Would they have been in fishing nirvana? Yep you bet. Did they have to face zonings etc? No!! Did they have the indigenous ripping out mangroves for development? No! Did they have toxins and high levels of pollution? NO!! Did they have some authority say they couldn’t do this or that when fishing? NO!! Why not?? Because the fishing was so much better back then.
Unfortunately we as mankind have poorly contributed to upkeeping our pristine environments and over the last 200 years we have seen some drastic changes.
It’s just a shame that ‘science’ and politicians would rather imprison some poor fisho for taking too much or too big as is their due. Not saying they are innocent mind you, but wouldn’t it be more prudent to jail environmental vandals and those that we know do much more harm to a fishery than fishoes could ever do??

Keep the records of these poor souls quashed and chase after the real culprits I say.

Shane

[Kevin Ferguson]

Sorry Scott you've lost me on this one. Your post is not supported by the facts as per your link.

1. ALP policy? - as stated by opposition ( Liberal ) enviro spokesman. Only ALP statement was on bi-partisanship ( B/S & weasel words I'll grant) whilst in opposition. But not a policy statement.

2. Court Order? - no reference in link , Dec 2006 in post. Forgive me , but from memory that would then be against , err , umm , Little Johnies mob.

3. Senator Boswell - the fishos friend. These people have criminal records because of YOU. Legislation drafted , bought on & passed by YOUR coalition. YOU " thought it was wrong" , "has some implications" , " it's a heavy burden" then why did YOU make it LAW??? YOUR coalition had control of BOTH houses prior to the last election & as such set the order of business and timing of the election. NO input from ANY other political party was required. Why didn't YOU rescind the legislation instead of now "raising it in parliament".

4. Messrs Collins & Pickup - I know your task is difficult , unappreciated by the vast majority & must at times seem like 1 step fwd & 5 back , but you should read point 3 and sheet the blame home to the correct individual. Also seem to recall Sunfish supporting GBRMP, ( happy to be corrected ).

PART 2

the scenario as I am reading it is

1. Little Johnie sells land to developers ( enviroment , cultural & local community not really a concern ) Johnie happy - helps big end of town

2. Developer grabs deal ( enviro ... yada yada ) We'll sell it as "jobs,jobs,jobs" and "good for the economy" and make a Squillion. Developer happy.

3. Local community says " wait a minute " there are valid issues here, BAND TOGETHER ( congratulations ) & lobbies local council. Locals NOT happy & not too optimistic either,

5. Local council reviews and sides with thier EMPLOYER ( congats to them ). Locals happy ,developers unhappy an $$$ signs fading fast right before thier eyes.

FFWD 5 years , developers still trying to turn a buck. Want to sell back at original price paid ( based on onselling at a huge profit , no longer worth this price). In current financial crisis they probably couldn't raise capital even if they had land use approval. Why should taxpayers bail-out developers?

In closing I have no qualms in putting the boot in to politicians of ANY party, ( currently polishing the steelcaps for Anna , to no avail I fear ). In most cases they deserve all they get. However lets make sure we are kicking the "goolies" of the right person.

Cheers Kevin

[Scott nthQld]

Mate to be honest, I'm not even going to bother responding to that considering the original content is almost 12 months old

[Kevin Ferguson]

Sorry Scott , not terribly computer literate and did not realise the date of your original post till you replied. Have only just joined the site and I am in the process of reading back thru post. Only replied because it was on the first page and I thought was a current issue. Can understand that the debate has long past , but believe that my points could have been argued at the time.
Appreciate the tone of your reply as it would have been quite easy in your shoes to have come out with guns blazing and told me to " NAFF OFF "
Cheers Kevin

[TimiBoy]

Love it Kevin! Welcome aboard, and I look forward to sparring sometime

Cheers,

Tim

[Kevin Ferguson]

G'day Tim & thanks for the warm welcome. Open to free & frank discussion as I tend not to take it personally, so I to " look forward to sparring". Also look forward to " coming out swinging" from the same corner on issues as well.
Cheers Kevin

[Scott nthQld]

Kev,

I guess I could've been a bit more construcive with my reply, but I've been getting a barrage of pm's of late referring to posts I made not long after I joined, things I had long forgotten about and I've been getting quite impatient with it all.

A lot of my info in the initial post was from our local news when Garret was in town, and stuf quoted in the article link as coming from a Liberal member was also said by Garret himself in an interview on the news.

Re the land buy back that was offered, the major push opposing the development of the land was made by local, state and federal labor members, all promising that it wouldn't happen under their govt (even though it was Labor council who had approved the land for development to begin with) and a buy back would be offered. That was the only reason development plans were pulled. I don't know what the land was sold for to begin with, but the Developer (Lawrence Lancini) offered the land back to the government at the exact price he paid for it, without including all the other overheads he incurred, rather generous I thought, as did every other resident of Townsville. He has since submitted another application to develop it, I haven't heard much since then, I guess I lost interest. Someone brought up that the developers were trying tor turn a profit, but I don't see how, the developers bought the land for X amount of dollars, 5 years previous, paid god knows how much in stamp duty, application fees etc, and then offered the land back for the same X amount, they will make no money in this, in fact they offered it at a great loss to themselves, not only in fees and other statutory charges, but the money they paid could have been used somewhere else to actually turn a profit, so not only were they going to lose money, but they had already potentially lost other revenue they could have gained.

As to the court order, at the time the order was made, the libs may have been in power, but the order is not llimited to the party, but the Government, which means it also applies to any future parties that gain Government in Australia.

I hope this answers some of your questions but seeing as so much time has passed and other things are more important now its all still fuzzy.

[Kevin Ferguson]

G'day Scott , didn't consider your first reply as not constructive. I thank you for your most recent post and the time taken for a detailed reply on an issue that we "both" now know is 12 mths old.
Cheers Kevin

[Scott nthQld]

Just as an update on the Palleranda development application. It was in the paper today that the council has recommended that the application be refused, understandably, the developer is pissed off, especially since he had the approval up until about 12 months ago when he withdrew his plans and tried to sell the land back to the Govt.

He's now reviewing the decision and what grounds it was based on and will be considering legal alternatives. Council (this time a supposedly independant council, but has heavy ties with the Liberal party) has called for the Federal Govt to buy back the land, this time around though, I don't think they will get it back so cheaply.

When the land was originally sold by the Federal Govt, they knew the buyer, Lawrence Lancini, had full intentions on developing the land into residential lots, but he has since been blocked at every avenue, if not by public backlash, such as last time, but this time the council, all this has cost he's company many thousands of dollars, which I now believe has reached into the hundreds of thousands. From the get go, Lancini has made his intentions clear, and when he was basically forced by public scrutiny to abandon his plans, he did the right thing by both the people and the Government, and now he's just been rewarded with another kick in the face. This time around I think he'll be looking to re-coup all of his expenses if the Govt decides they want to buy the land back.

IMO so he should, we all hate it when we get screwed out of a few dollars by any govt, well he's just lost my yearly income many times over in one foul swoop and it is likely to cost a helluva lot more if he takes legal avenues.

[Mike Delisser]

Is this the same bloke????
If it is he's also chairman of the NQ Cowbows. Sounds like the Gov/Council did to him what he did to Cowboy's coach Graham Murray.

LAURENCE LANCINI
Number 73 in the 100 richest Queenslanders
WEALTH = $150 MILLION
Bussiness = CONSTRUCTION
LAURENCE Lancini is as closely associated with the development of Townsville as anyone, and his latest project will transform the centre of the north Queensland city.
His Lancini Group company is constructing Flinders Plaza, the biggest single retail development in Townsville for more than a decade.

[Scott nthQld]

yep thats him. The issue with Graham Murray was not totally reliant on Lancini's shoulders. he may be chairman, but the whole board voted on it, and obviously the majority won and Muzza was given the boot. Well, rather not given the boot, but last year his contract was up and they decided not to offer a new one, Muzza chose to leave early, though that was largely to do with the amount of pressure that was put on him by not only the club, but the fans as well.