Should Amateur Netting Be Banned

[nigelr]

The longest journey starts with a single step...........
With respect Jeremy,while I personally believe that what you say regarding the comprehensive detrimental effects of habitat destruction is 100% correct, perhaps NSW have something with their zero tolerance of bait netting.
We cockroaches can still obtain sufficient live bait, although it may take us longer.........
Great thread by the way, and as Jeremy so rightly states, apathy is the enemy!
Cheers!

[ozbizweb]

some minor damage is done? OK then, just how many people own a bait net, cast net in QLD? if each only does a minor bit if damage, then I would reckon that in the end, it will amount to major damage when everyone does their little bit, this does not mean I disagree with you by the way, but it is a fairly simple truth, kind of like throwing something out the car window, it is only one thing, but if we all did it, the Roads would be choked with rubbish, we all need to do our little bit to prevent our Minor damage and stop it becoming Major!

Thirty years ago we did throw cans out of the car window. We had to change our habits. It did not kill us and the world is a better, cleaner place for it.

You cannot use a cast net in NSW. We get by.

The population is growing and fisheries are a finite resource. We have to give our fish stocks every chance to grow up.

We need to grow out of netting.

[craftycarp]

Once again we stand as a united force!! no wonder the greenies are winning this fight. As I have said before hopefully the next generation will do what we cant.

[RayDeR]

G'day!

Seabug whenn did you last go fishing? Have you ever been with some amateur fisherman catching bait?

I fish the Southport Broadwater. When ever I go fishing I am amazed at the number small fish I catch. I have caught heaps of flathead less than 6 inches (15cm), probably hundreds of bream and whiting less than legal length. I have caught tiny snapper and many other species.

If the fishery was fished out as many have claimed then I would not catch more legal fish than i can eat and certainly i would not catch all these babies.

Sometimes, I think we should post photos of the many healthy babies rather than the pb ones we catch. That would show people that the big ones are not just a rare catch of transient fish but part of a lprolific and thriving fishery.

Ray de R

[ozbizweb]

Seabug whenn did you last go fishing? Have you ever been with some amateur fisherman catching bait?

I think Seabug's fishing credentials are a given, just for opening this topic.

I fish the Southport Broadwater. When ever I go fishing I am amazed at the number small fish I catch. I have caught heaps of flathead less than 6 inches (15cm), probably hundreds of bream and whiting less than legal length. I have caught tiny snapper and many other species.

Maybe increasing your hook size might save you being annoyed by the little blokes.

If the fishery was fished out as many have claimed then I would not catch more legal fish than i can eat and certainly i would not catch all these babies.

Next time, you should stop when you have caught all the legal fish you can eat.

Sometimes, I think we should post photos of the many healthy babies rather than the pb ones we catch. That would show people that the big ones are not just a rare catch of transient fish but part of a lprolific and thriving fishery.

I am not trying to start an argument with you Ray, just asking you to consider an alternative viewpoint.

Our "prolific and thriving fishery" is not like it was twenty years ago or even ten years ago. You have to wonder what it is going to be like in ten or twenty years time.

Life goes on without a baitnet. Fishermen just like yourself now think that is a good thing.

[bennykenny]

a bait net is just as it states a bait net, it is used for catching bait, herring, prawns, mullet ect, it has holes in it so the small ones that are not big enough get out , by the way of sustaning the fishery, i know myself i only take the bait i need for a session and what ever i have left i let go, i dont see a lot of people with herring taking as many as they can they just use what they need, not all of us only fish with soft plastics,as long as they are legal i will be using mine as much as i can

[CHAPPY]

I Can See The Need For Cast Net/bait Net Banning In Certain Areas. It Is The Same As Regrowth Areas Fenced Off At The Beach But, Total All Over Ban? No.
I Have Lived At Tin Can Bay For 3 Months And Saw 2 People Cast Netting In That Period. They Were Netting On The Yabby Flats. No Damage After The Next Tide. So Your Proposal Of A Total Netting Ban Appears To Me No Better Than The Morewton Bay Feasco Or Stirring Your Tea Cup With A Shovel.

In Short, No Way

Chappy

[RayDeR]

As most fish stocks around the country are declining(unless you use $5000 of electronics) is it possible that we can no longer afford the damage to the natural enviroment that drag, cast and hand nets used to gather bait are doing to the bottom end of the fisheries nursery/foodchain.

Regards
seabug

G'day Seabug!

Are the fish stocks declining or not?

Maybe you ought to show the DPI & F the type of electronics that "restore" declining stocks for only $5,000. That is a small amount in comparison to what they are spending already.

I guess poor fishermen who fish wrong times with wrong bait, etc and wrong gear will always say the stock has declined.

Others with some knowledge and effort will catch "miracle" numbers of fish.

Ray De R

[Ben D]

You would have to be pretty naive to think that fish stocks have not declined over the years. They certainly have in many areas locally and also many places throughout the globe. There is a difference between stable and sustainable levels and the absolute numbers of fish. A population can be stable and sustainably managed with high numbers of fish, and that same population can be stable and sustainably managed with low numbers of fish, its just that with low numbers of fish, you have less margin for error between sustainable and unsustainable use given the same amount of fishing pressure. With lower numbers of fish and /or increasing fishing pressure, a poor year of recruitment to the fishery can leave a gap in the population and result in declines which can be hard to reverse. Alternatively a good year or few years of recruitment can result in strong year classes of fish which can help a fish population gain some ground. The processes driving recruitment are linked with the size of the spawning population and the ability of the environment to nurture the eggs/larvae and juvenile fish. If the environment is degraded, the bottle neck may not be spawning population size, it may be survival of juveniles related to availability/quality of nursery habitat.

But in any case, back to cast nets. I don't use mine as much as I used to, but again I always took what I needed for one session and released all the juvenile or unwanted fish I caught in it quickly, and in many instances left the pocket of the net in the water to help this aspect. I pretty much use artificial lures only nowadays, a personal choice, but a pretty environmentally friendly one as it gives bait stocks a breather (and I probably catch fewer fish on artificials, but the quality is there and they are usually hooked less deep than when using bait, boosting post release survival of undersized ones, etc.)

[Mike Delisser]

Don't agree with any of this.
1. which fish stocks are in decline? what evidence is there? The 2006 Annual Stock Report by the Qld DPI&F reports most species at stable and sustainable levels.
Jeremy

Jeremy could you direct me to a site or web page where I can access this info, I don't doubt it's out there but I can't seem to find it? I'm interested in which species the DPI are talking about as my fishing club's catch records (bread & butter species) over the last 34 years tell a very different story.
Mike

[Didley]

Take me out and shoot me, but what is needed is proper management of the fishery and stuff the individuals self-interest in being able to fish where they want when they want. Its the long term and the greater good that's most important. It should be our responsibility to maintain what we have if not repair some of the damage of our ignorant past. Now call me a bloody greeny as if it's an insult, then think how you'd label yourself and how your descendents will look at your attitude.

[flick]

I have issues with a few vague points raised here.

"As most fish stocks around the country are declining(unless you use $5000 of electronics"

What is the relationship between my sounder and how many fish are in the ocean? Or have I misread this point.

Secondly, i fail to see how any sane person could believe that the number of rec fisho's casting bait nets could come close to the damage done by developement or run off. Ask anybody who fishes the richmond what has had the most detrimental effect on the river across the last 10 years. (Yes i know you can't throw a net there now). Not that i condone any damage whatsoever. I have cast for bait in the same muddy/sand bank for years and don't do damage nor have I noticed a decline in bait.

Yes i believe there are less of some species than 30 years ago. However. This does not mean they are in decline. I believe that they may have been in decline a few years ago due to irresponsible or uneducated catch rates a few decades ago. Especially bins filled in fishing comps. But with the ongoing changes to size and catch restrictions by fisheries and the DPI, things are improving.

Don't confuse less fish caught today than 30 years as currently a decline as against, were once in decline. To measure a decline, compare catch rates with 5 years ago, not 30/40.

I believe there are a lot more canals on the coast. A lot more sharks in those canals. A shark population only grows in an eco system if there is food to sustain it. I believe that there are a lot more bream in those canals. Not necessarily density, but population.

There are a lot less whiting in the coomera river. However, there are a lot less sandbars due to dredging since Sanctuary cove.

I cannot recall ever throwing a cast net over a weed bed.

As far as shellfish go, i don't see the relavence to a cast net. That said, water quality will have a very negative affect on shellfish populations. Also, I will admit that families walking the forshore and combing it for every shellfish they came across has wiped out populations in some areas. How this can be laid at the feet of recs or pros i don't know.

For those who have brought up the point that NSW don't alow cast nets. Can you honestly tell me that you believe that fish populations are better in NSW than QLD because of this law.

Lastly, as a rule, (and there are always exceptions) I find that most fisho's that make the effort to catch their own bait are very in tune with the areas they fish and only take what they need.

Jim

[Mod11]

Good reply Jim.

You are 100% correct on the ' comparison " issue.

30 and 40 years ago it was open slather with bin fulls of fish, of course there are less fish ( we'll use snapper " ) caught these days, because you are only allowed to catch 5 and a minimum size of 35cms. ( IN QLD )

The club fishing records was mentioned by someone.. ?

There is a club that was formed in 1945 and those records do show an amazingly constant number and size of fish being caught by members to this day. I must point out that this particular club fishes mostly in the Nerang River which has NEVER been subject to commercial fishing.

These records will change however, as the new Fin Fish regulations come into effect placing bag limits on fish that have never had them. This will force clubs to alter there agenda of Trophy Hunting ( big bags ) and sort the good fishos from the great fishos.

As for the cast net issue, this is a debate I suppose. I use a cast net in areas where I will not wreck the net and also take only what I need. Is the limited number of cast net users placing a discernable impact on the habitat ?

It is a changing world and we all have to take our place and make our mark. It is not a perfect world and there are NO simple answers or quick fixes. If each and everyone of us do what we perceive to be the “ right thing ‘, then we have achieved something for future generations. I congratulate everyone who obeys the Fishery regs, takes their rubbish home and cares for the fishery they enjoy.

chilli

[darylive]

Well when the pros drag nets through the channels at low tide taking everything in their path is it any wonder there are bugger all fish to catch.
(Sandy Straight) no longer Great.

Not rocket science.

Ban all netting within 2k of the shore and 100meters of reef simple.
Restrict in shore netting to cast nets only, one person operator.
To be fair the same rules should apply to pros and recreational fishers.

Now if some one who can would implement this the problem is solved

So many Clowns yet so few Circus

[RayDeR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDeR
Seabug whenn did you last go fishing? Have you ever been with some amateur fisherman catching bait?

I think Seabug's fishing credentials are a given, just for opening this topic.

Ray replies : I think plenty of people talk fishing and have not wet a line for years. I notice Seabug has not answered the question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDeR
I fish the Southport Broadwater. When ever I go fishing I am amazed at the number small fish I catch. I have caught heaps of flathead less than 6 inches (15cm), probably hundreds of bream and whiting less than legal length. I have caught tiny snapper and many other species.

Maybe increasing your hook size might save you being annoyed by the little blokes.

Ray replies: Did I say I was annoyed by the little ones? I love seeing the little ones. It reassures me there are plenty of little ones out there and as I return them they are there for the future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDeR
If the fishery was fished out as many have claimed then I would not catch more legal fish than i can eat and certainly i would not catch all these babies.

Next time, you should stop when you have caught all the legal fish you can eat.

Ray says: I often leave when I am still catching legal fish and have returned legal ones to the water as I do not need them. Did I say i take more than I can eat home?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDeR
Sometimes, I think we should post photos of the many healthy babies rather than the pb ones we catch. That would show people that the big ones are not just a rare catch of transient fish but part of a lprolific and thriving fishery.

I am not trying to start an argument with you Ray, just asking you to consider an alternative viewpoint.

Our "prolific and thriving fishery" is not like it was twenty years ago or even ten years ago. You have to wonder what it is going to be like in ten or twenty years time.

Life goes on without a baitnet. Fishermen just like yourself now think that is a good thing.

Ray says: Seabug's premise is the fishery is declining. In my experience, I see no proof of this where I fish. Can Seabug tell me where he has proof of its decline?

Ray De R