Ausfish being used as a platform to attack companies

[Fish Guts]

I have a growing concern for the amount of unsubstantiated attacks on businesses through forums. As has been the case on here on several occasions, members can defame and attempt to bring down a business in which often the case, has very little, to no substance at all. The only way these attacks are set to rest is if a proprietor comes on here, creates a membership and explains the facts. If this does not happen, people are left wondering. This is heightened by the fact that this site has upto 23000 members not including guests to the site. The exposure of such attacks is massive on here. I think its a joke that if someone has a gripe with a company, that can freely attack them in one of the most effective ways, through a forum of fisherman/boat owners, which most often the cast is the exact clientele they need for business.

What is often the case is a person will join the site, put up a massive attack on a company, create a massive discussion which is 95% based on what this individual has said.

I would like to know the provisions in place for this sort of defamation against a business. Would be interested to hear from the legal fraternity on here regarding the avenues businesses have against this sort of defamation.

I think its a significant issue on this site and as being involved in small family business i feel it necessary to address this issue urgently.

what are your thoughts ?


fish guts

[Spaniard_King]

FG,

I am thinking the web sites own policies should reflect and indicate what they beleive is allowable.

IMO an attach on a buisness is not different to a personal attack and should not be tollerated!

[wiz]

I tend to agree.
Generally this sort of thing has not been to bad in the past with some statements justified.
But lately it seems to be open slather, but if you check where these threads originate you start to see a pattern and I think there are 2 members that seem to be starting it and I wonder whether they are in cahoots. I know I am pointing fingers but the s$$t that is being said is utter crap and to me I wonder whether they are intentionally trying to cause s$$t because I can't see why you would do it.
anyway it is easy to throw stones from behind a keyboard but it would be interesting to know what their motives are.

Cheers

[datamile]

Might be worth a read, but not sure if any new laws have been published

http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/defamation.html

I guess there is a whole grey area between freedom of speach/opinion up to deliberate malicious attacks, and there are trolls willing to stir it up for fun.

Email/web make people less cautious as its trival to post, and it can give an additional route for the small person to give an opinion to a wider audience, but it also give the route for the attack by perhaps a rival business or someone with a gripe.

For example, at work the other day, someone had a bad meal/service at a resturant, and wrote them a constructive long email about the good and bad points only to receive a curse "Dear Lorraine, Your (sic) are an idiot we don't want your feedback" email back. Now they forward it to their friends, and it made global news. Good or Bad ?

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...8-3102,00.html

[OPTI]

i couldnt agree with you more FG,this latest attack on edencraft is deplorable.nothing gets sorted out on a forum and the accusers need to be made more accountable for thier actions imo,especially when they are being deceptive and dishonest.

[PinHead]

People have a right to express their opinions...if it is about a business or a product..both good and bad then so be it.

Try this website: http://www.notgoodenough.com/

totally about consumer gripes.

The DPI site says that about 700,000 people fish each year..makes the 23000 membership on here a rather small percentage so I doubt it would impact on anyones business a great deal. I doubt that all of the 23000 membership read the posts all that often.

[dfox]

Fish Guts, its when such posts appear its smart to ask the user a few questions and get a bigger picture of the complaint, many of these type of posts are brief and dont tell the full tail. Often it takes 2 or 3 pages before the full story and facts behind the complaint surface and by then the vultures have already had there say and formed an opinion. It also makes a difference in (some) cases if the attack hasnt been made as a first time post.
Many of us can sense when something said is not right or maybe suspect, equally there are many posts of praise for companies (some of which boarder on advertising) . Im sure the mod's will have the final say in many cases ...foxy

[disorderly]

i couldnt agree with you more FG,this latest attack on edencraft is deplorable.nothing gets sorted out on a forum and the accusers need to be made more accountable for thier actions imo,especially when they are being deceptive and dishonest.

But both sides have had a chance to put their story forward .
Surely if a disgruntled customer has genuine issues and can provide documented proof of these then he has a right to share them.
Then let the readers make up their own minds.
Geez if I wasnt able to have a whinge and moan I wouldn't bother posting.

Ps. there are laws in place to deal with slander if necessary.

Scott

[NAGG]

If it is an isolated case ..... most of us will recognise it as just that ( life is full of it)

However if a pattern emerges & the gripe is substantiated over & over by others with the same problem ..... our mindset changes! We become a little more aware & can make further inquiries! ..... The same goes with the reverse ..... a business can be supported by others

I'd hate to see this freedom of speech removed , sites like Ausfish are a great place to discuss the good & bad within fishing / boating!
...... All businesses need to know how to handle complaints ..... & it does not need to be a case of the customer is always right! ( but it needs to be investigated thoroughly .... & communicated!) ........ Unlike the way that the previously mentioned restaurant handled feedback( that was atrocious).

Lets keep these threads open

Nagg

[nigelr]

Pretty spot on there NAGG, IMHO.
Personally I'm happy to trust the discretion of the site owner and mods.
The inherent difficulty, of course, is getting both the whole story, and the truth.
Given these however, I feel the membership is quite capable of making its' own mind of what is fair practice and what isn't.
Kudos to Ausfish for allowing us the opportunity to do this.
Cheers.

[steveg1100]

You point on the fact that there are a lot of members. This means that there should be people on the forum that have also had experiences with the dealer / provider of goods or services. So they are free to post there views and experiences. This should even it out. I would like to think that I personally approach grievances with an open mind and do not side with the complaintiff immediately.

I recall a while ago a thread about some bubling rust on a newly purchased boat. I had not sided with the consumer until the retailer did come online and after hearing his attitude to the problem I then sided with the consumer.

It's all good.

[Hamish73]

over moderation will kill any forum. After all, the point of a forum is to get other users opinions. If I wanted to know what Mr Ausfish himself thought on a subject, I'd simply email him . If it ever gets to the stage where a user cant post his/her good and bad experiences with a company or product, the forum then becomes useless, just be prepared to back it up with facts I say. It comes down the forum user to have enough brains to not post lies and false info. I know I am not immune from the false info posting, but when it was genuine mistake and the post is edited and an apology made asap its a diifferent kettle of fish IMO

[fishing111]

Thanks Greg, as you will see it is far better for you to put a reply up here, and give people an answer, than ring me on Saturday 23/02/08 and leave a message about the post.

It never ceases to amaze me how you never hear from a company saying thanks for leaving those posts up of people saying good things about their business, yet as soon as there is a different type of post they are on the phone demanding it be removed.

Regards

Steve Brown



The point Steve make here is absolutely true, they can't have all one way traffic, you have to take the good with the not so good.





Originally Posted by Spaniard_King
So Magik1 why did this post get pulled off fish net yesterday??

Theres a lot more to this story than just your side I recon.

Personally I think these posts should be all removed

Paul251 Do you think that all manufacturers should cruise the different forums to put out the spot fires from there products???


I think you missed the point SK. No, is your answer in short, but there always exceptions to the rule. Obviously the manufacturer's can't answer every posting regarding trivial things, however in high profile posting's with credible information and photo's then I believe it would be better to defend one's reputation, then to sit around and wait till it blows over. I know your proud as punch with your boat, and rightly so, but doesn't this guy deserve to be equally proud?
Also in regard to all these type of post's should be removed. Going on that logic if Joe Blow up the road decides to build boats, and the transom falls out of every one that hit's the water, then by your blanket ban people would never know about it from Ausfish. Total censorship is a very, very big thing, and one I hope doesn't happen on here.
After all, Edencraft can respond if they wish, can't they, free speech for all ! Burning books went out a long time ago.


Hope you don't think that this is a personal attack on you SK, but just using you for eg. There seems to be a motion that attack's on business is a no no. Well my question is if you go down that road where do you draw the line. I seem to remember a while ago you were having problems with your Ruhl pumps blowing, now I guess that could be defined as unnecessarily attacking a business by implying if people from Ausfish buy Ruhl pumps, then there's will most likely break too. Or is it ok if there not an Australian business? Where does it end, Ausfish would come to a screaming bloody holt with this type of gag on free speech. Now I'm not saying people should go out and bag any business they like, but people have the right to express themselves with free speech. Most people on Ausfish can smell a scam, people aren't stupid, so if genuine people come on and supply there name, and there grievance, with photos and documentary evidence, than I guess people would/should take them serious, and they should be able to get there story out through such vehicles as Ausfish.

[Poodroo]

I think that if the complaint is warranted and someone has been genuinely hard done by then by all means air it publicly because the company obviously deserves to be brought out in the open for the poor service and it may help others to avoid the same dilemma. This is why it is in all businesses' interests to provide an impeccable service to their clients/cutomers because word of mouth advertising will always be their best form of advertising and with the internet as a major tool it will fork either for them or against them. Bad service by todays standards is not acceptable and we have the right to good service. We also have the right to complain if the service is below standard. I think it is always the way that we hear the bad things about a business rather than the good things. It is our human nature to have a whinge when we have not experienced good service but let's be fair, let's also pat the backs of those businesses who have deserved it.

Poodroo

[bluefin59]

I feel that attacking a business with some rumor is definately not on but if there are facts to see on a subject well bring it on ,we all have problems with different companies and products from time to time and the outcomes are not always in your favour so i believe we should be able to be discuss these issues . I believe those who chose the path of rumor could end up with all sorts of legal problems if it became a repeat behavior over and over again ......matt