Scientific Evidence for Green Zones

[Lovey80]

i am a fisherman, and an environmentally conceous one. In honest opinion, green zones are needed. there are to many people congregating on fishing areas and literally creating fishing deserts. but by creating green zones in specific locations where fish can thrive, then atleast we can have a continuing suply of fish (like a nursery). "biger fish make more eggs than smaller fish of the same species"

my opinion

Regards

I agree that there are a lot of people congregating in specific area's (on weekends and public holidays only) There is a reason for that mate. There isnt a hell of a lot of area that is worthwhile fishing. Well not a lot compared to the total area of Moreton bay. The bay is a lot different to the GBR. And hence why it is unique. The problem with the EPA is that they want almost all these area's. Where are we suppose to fish then? We will be imeadiately fishing in desserts.

As far as Fisheries are concerned we infact are not making the productive area's in to deserts at all. If this were the case then size and bag limmits would be altered. If the case was that drastic there is no reason DPI fisheries couldn't make specific Size and Bag limmits for the bay itself.

Just something for you to think about.

Cheers Chris

[Lovey80]

i
i am really up for artificial reefs though, i think it is a good idea and more of them should be created inside moreton bay in a way that almost creates an artificial reef corridor inside the moreton bay. what that will do is create small islands of artificial reefs that are about 1km apart that will allow fish to freely swim between each area.

Regards

Just one more thing Croangler. If and when the EPA do screw us over you can bet your bottom dollar there will be a crap load of Artificial reefs around. They just wont be public knowledge for some time.


Cheers Chris

[Scott nthQld]

Forcing people out of one area, will put more pressure on another, reducing the fish stocks there, while the other area becomes so overcrowded with large fish, that any spawning will be only to produce fodder for the older, bigger specimens, hence having no spillover effect the EPA claims will happen.

I agree the GBR is completely different to Moreton Bay, and every other eco system in the world, my gripe is, the EPA states Moreton Bay is unique, but still apply models designed for other regions, in other areas of the world, not other areas of Australia, even though each region is different from the rest, why are they all subject to the same criteria to 'save' the fishery? Also, how could the Green zones be labelled a 'fishery' if no fishing is permitted?

And all this 'research' the EPA boasts about, where is it? How can the public make an informed decision on whether the proposed action is appropriate or not? like I said before, until the 'research' is produced to a public forum and is subjected for review by proper scientists (not undergraduates, doing extra-curricular work) that work in the same field, it doesn't mean anything, otherwise, I could do up a report myself on the GBR showing it has fully recovered and then some and claim it to be true, and not show anyone so it can be disproven, and by the EPA's logic, that would be a means to have green zones lifted. I know that this situation isn't logical, but why should our standards of research be any different from their's?

[Poodroo]

Moreton Bay is such a vast area of water we all have our so-called spot X's out there and they are so spread out there is no way we will find one another's secret locations in a million years. If they start introducing green zones we are going to be given less area to work with and that is going to be detrimental to the areas not marked as green zones. Just leave us fishing folk alone and work on the pollution. Also in the argument of anchors that damage reefs just bear in mind that a large percentage of modern day fishos now fish with plastics and use Minn Kotas and drift techniques. All fish that are under sized are always mouth hooked with jigheads so minimal damage ensures fish are released with maximum survival chances. Most fisher people out there are more environmentally aware than we are given credit for.

Poodroo

[croangler]

Hello gents,

I agree with you Chris Ryan

There is scientific evidence that bigger fish of the same species create more eggs than smaller fish of the same species. Do some research and you will see, I studied it in University few years back.

I never indicated that crowding recreational fishing in smaller areas is going to benefit the fishery. I actually think the total opposite. I think that crowding will create detrimental effects of fish stocks. And that’s what I mean about creating fishing deserts. And that’s what I mean about creating artificial reefs throught the bay. I think it will reduce crowding in any particular area.

Lets face it green zones are coming and there is nothing we can do about it, whether we like or not. Fishing stocks need to be regulated. Green zones are present all over Australia and all over the world. And our EPA is not going to back down from the green zones. I know some people will get the S*its with me for saying this.

If it was up to me, I would not have green zones at all, I would ban fishing in certain areas (eg peel) for few months a year (around spawning times), I would restrict bag limits of fish taken, eg increase legal bream to 25cm (apparently they grow really slow), restrict commercial fishing in Moreton bay, and I would create more artificial reefs throughout the bay. I think that would do a better job in protecting fish than the proposed green zones.

What we need to do is band together, and create a plan of attack that will be loud enough that the EPA will need to listen. What I mean is that all of us write submissions that have similar main points, and when we have thousands of submissions that are saying the same thing, I am sure they will listen.

We can start by listing our 5 main concerns regarding the Proposed Moreton Bay Zoning Plan and also list 5 solutions that we believe that will be better suited.

Concerns
Solutions

[croangler]

What I find a joke, is that the EPA cannot justify with scientific evidence the need for green zones and why it is necessary to remove recreational fishing from these zones.

And why the expansion of the port of Brisbane and the Brisbane Airport are not such a problem for the EPA. Are they seriously thinking that recreational fishing is worse than the Expansions of the Brisbane Airport and the Port of Brisbane. I just read the Port of Brisbane Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for the Expansion of the port to its current state, and they said that at a local level the environmental effects are significant, however at a state level the effects are minor. Please pay attention to the choice of words here, whenever they say that there are some environmental effects, straight away they say that they are minor compared to the state level…….what a joke.

That’s what happens when you are a big guy (port and Airport) you can do anything. To get that approved they did not need an EIS, they did it for show. They can do anything they want. They can dredge all the sand from Moreton bay they like, they can block creeks, they can do whatever they want and in all honesty they are unstoppable. All EPA will do is guide them to dredge sand away from “environmentally significant areas” what a joke.

A recreational fisherman in his tinny has no rights and will not be heard. Just because the EPA cannot control the BIG BOYS, they will do their best to control the Little boys (Recreational Fishermen) You will see

I had to get that out of my system

I feel better now

[Chris Ryan]

croangler, your last post is the best thus far and the basis of the boat rally. One rule for all, not one for them seperate you those over there and screw the fisherman!!

[Mike Delisser]

Gday Billfisher
From your post
"* All Australians have a common law right to fish in all tidal waters as recognised in the objects of NSW Fisheries Management Act (1994). This right has it's origins in the Magna Charta. (Recreational fishing is certainly "customary".)"
Can you explain this as I don't understand?
Sir Joh handed over tidal waters at Sanctuary Cove through an act of state parliament (Sanctuary Cove Resort Act 1985), and what about Swan Bay, HMAS Brisbane dive site, Rickett's point in Vic and several areas off Rottnest Island WA, all off limits to fishing through acts of various State Parliaments.
Mike

[billfisher]

M62, obviously marine parks and the examples you have quoted overule the right to fish any tidal waters. Thats why they had to bring in acts to do so. The point is that that the right to do so is traditional and that regulated angling has a negligable effect on fish stcks and biodiversity.

[Jeremy]

i am a fisherman, and an environmentally conceous one. In honest opinion, green zones are needed. there are to many people congregating on fishing areas and literally creating fishing deserts. but by creating green zones in specific locations where fish can thrive, then atleast we can have a continuing suply of fish (like a nursery). "biger fish make more eggs than smaller fish of the same species"

what i mean, we can have inside Moreton Bay areas that are protected and help in increasing fish populations.

(and)

i am really up for artificial reefs though, i think it is a good idea and more of them should be created inside moreton bay in a way that almost creates an artificial reef corridor inside the moreton bay. what that will do is create small islands of artificial reefs that are about 1km apart that will allow fish to freely swim between each area.

It is clear that some individuals have a very poor understanding of the science involved in these green zones. You have obviously just come down in the last shower of rain and have NO IDEA of the recent history here. Virtually ALL fish species in Moreton Bay are migratory and all have pelagic larvae. The idea of a sanctuary where fish can live and breed happily is completely false.

1. the DPI&F set bag and size limits which are currenty doing the job of creating a sustainable fishery.
2. The marine protected areas (green zones) are NOT a fisheries management tool. Bag and size limits are. The EPA is responsible for protecting the environment, and this could have been done with mininal or no impact on the fishery.
3. fish stocks will never be restored to the levels of 100 years ago. Pollution, overdevelopment, and destruction of mangrove habital where juveniles live and breed will ensure that.
4. green zones will create displaced fishing effort. ie more people trying to fish in the same spots.
5. if you think science is behind this, do some research on the Grey Nurse Shark protection areas in SEQ. A very rough count of the sharks by the very people (divers) who drove them to the brink of extinction and who now have the tourist dollar leads to them being placed on the endangered list. Breeding areas are set aside to protect the 'few' remaining GNS. No fishing zones for 1.2 km, then extended to 1.5 km around these sites. Trolling for pelagic species - spaniards and wahoo - banned and WHY? Ever catch a GNS on a Halco
6. There are numerous other examples - if you have been following the implementation of the green zones - of heavy handedness and injustice. Byron Bay, Port Stephens, Jervis Bay, Bundaberg, GBR etc etc. It is not just a coincidence that the Marine Protected Areas (green zones) take away many of the best fishing spots.
7. just because you can't catch jack doesn't mean there are no fish. Just means they are smarter than you

Finally re the artificial reefs, they are a great idea in theory, but the standards required by the EPA to actually create an artificial reef are so high as to be prohibitive. You can't use tyres, you can't use concrete. Unless these standards are relaxed (are you kidding ) they will never happen.

The next review of the Moreton Bay Marine Park is now scheduled for 5 years, rather than the ten years until this review. The same calls will be coming from the lunatic greens for 'more protection' for Moreton Bay, and we will lose another 20-30% of the bay to green zones.

This is simply a green grab for Moreton Bay is return for preferences by the Labour Government. We have to make a stand on this and do everything we can to stop it happening or we will continue to lose fishing spots bit by bit.

done

Jeremy

[croangler]

Jeremy, I am glad that you “do” have an idea of what is going on inside Moreton Bay. And I am glad that you have spent some time to do some research too, and you obviously must have a marine science degree with such vast knowledge of fish migration patterns, fish breeding patterns, fish spawning inside Moreton Bay, fish stocks management, andresearch on the Grey Nurse Shark protection areas in SEQ.

I must admit I am not “that” knowledgeable when it comes to the abovementioned things. But I try.

Interesting read from you Jeremy, but you have not shown a one single solution to the Moreton Bay Marine Park Draft Zoning Plan, not one alternative…nothing. All you are doing is identify the problems, anyone can do that, I can do that too. Try making a solution. What is your solution to the current issues? What do you propose? Do you have an alternative? Do you have a plan of attack? Ill leave that up to you.

If you think that scrapping the Moreton Bay Draft Zoning Plan altogether is what should be done, then fine. At least that’s a solution. But for some reason I don’t think that’s going to happen.

You obviously are an intelligent human being to understand that the Moreton Bay Draft Zoning Plan is not going to go away. The EPA is accepting submissions up to 5pm on the 7th of March. I sugesst people go to the next rally and let their voice be heard.

If you read my last postyesterday 10:23 AM, I would hope you know what my feeling is towards the draft zoning plan.

[PinHead]

Jeremy, I am glad that you “do” have an idea of what is going on inside Moreton Bay. And I am glad that you have spent some time to do some research too, and you obviously must have a marine science degree with such vast knowledge of fish migration patterns, fish breeding patterns, fish spawning inside Moreton Bay, fish stocks management, andresearch on the Grey Nurse Shark protection areas in SEQ.

I must admit I am not “that” knowledgeable when it comes to the abovementioned things. But I try.

Interesting read from you Jeremy, but you have not shown a one single solution to the Moreton Bay Marine Park Draft Zoning Plan, not one alternative…nothing. All you are doing is identify the problems, anyone can do that, I can do that too. Try making a solution. What is your solution to the current issues? What do you propose? Do you have an alternative? Do you have a plan of attack? Ill leave that up to you.

If you think that scrapping the Moreton Bay Draft Zoning Plan altogether is what should be done, then fine. At least that’s a solution. But for some reason I don’t think that’s going to happen.

You obviously are an intelligent human being to understand that the Moreton Bay Draft Zoning Plan is not going to go away. The EPA is accepting submissions up to 5pm on the 7th of March. I sugesst people go to the next rally and let their voice be heard.

If you read my last postyesterday 10:23 AM, I would hope you know what my feeling is towards the draft zoning plan.

I will give you my solution.no closures at all..better policing of bag and size limits to keep fish stocks sustainable. Gte the EPA to do what they are supposed to be doing..fixing up water quality issues in the rivers...protect the foreshores etc.

[Chris Ryan]

Can I add to that Pinhead PROPER funding of the DPI&F and a full audit of where moneys are spent in relation to the MBMP?!!

I am sure a WHOLE FRIGGIN BUILDING FULL OF TREE/SEAGRASS HUGGERS in Ann St is costing a lot more to run than the two piddly floors DPI has.........

Its typical, the ideologists have the power and money and the poor bastards that enforce it have little to nothing. I have heard that Fisheries have a fuel budget, if they use their fuel before the fiscal quarter is done, they can't go out. They have to wait until the next one to get the fuel. Now, if this is true and this is acceptable to the goddamning Government, then I all of a sudden have a budget on money for fines, registration, levies, etc. You will have to wait there Captn Bligh..........not quite the next fiscal quarter.

Actually Pinhead I am liking your idea of the backlogging the courts more and more the closer we get to this rediculous conclusion.

[Poodroo]

We seem to live in a world where it is accepted that change is accepted as a way to grow and prosper. Yet as we watch technology improve everything around us and all the things that we take for granted day by day the world still increases to decline in quality eg: Pollution, green house gases, ozone depletion, etc etc etc. The one thing that is certain is that it isn't the animals that are destroying our planet, it is the most so called clever animal of all... humans. Once again it is pollution that is the world's biggest problem and pollution that needs to be addressed by all. Our Moreton Bay is a thing of beauty and something we need to keep for all future generations to enjoy as much as we have. Who will the greens and the government blame for its demise once they stop us from fishing in it and it still suffers an ill fate? We all know that green zones will not solve the problem. Policing reasonable bag limits is the way to go.

Poodroo

[manchild]

Well ,they have to statisfy mum and dad greens who eat everything that trendy.Green is the new black and thtas it.Most of this people think nature is the park under they highrises and dont care to find out whats happening in the bay ,where they never been.Instead they believe what they fed because its presented in a fashion that makes it cool.I talk to a lot of different people,being a tradie and when i tell them the facts they are really surprised.They think we are a bunch of yobos in blue singlets that kill everything that moves in the bay area.How do you change that?I wish i know the answer mate.
George