Scientific Evidence for Green Zones

[Shane_78]

I thought I would post this. Make of it what you will but there is a lot of banter about their being no scientific evedence for marine reserves. I'm a fisho. I do love it and I came to ausfish website as a newby at the start of this process cos I was worried about what was going on. A lot of people are very vocal and aggressive about it and no offense but it can be very off putting. So since then I've been doing me own reserach and I don't think the GReen Zones are going to be as bad as everyone says.
I know from this I"ll get called a greenie and slammed but thats my opinion and its a free country. Here is a link to the science taht no one says exists for those that are interested.
http://www.piscoweb.org/outreach/pubs/reserves

[croangler]

shane, i am up for protection of marine wildlife too, and i do work as an environmental planner.

but i do believe that the green zones are taking nearly all of the fishable areas in the Moreton Bay. They are extending the peel island zone, and taking the St helena island. What will happen is that boats will congregate in areas like mud and Green Island and those areas will be virtual deserts.

however, i am up for creation of artificial reefs throught moreton bay. i think Harry Atkinson is a success, even though it is a carpark on good days.

my personal view is when enough artificial reefs are created inside moreton bay, not too many people would use the traditional areas. fishermen will be more spread out. but that will take time.

so my view is that the green zones need to be scaled down and only increased to what they curently plan when enough artificial reefs are created.

minimum 5 across the moreton bay

[megalongzilli]

Shane_78,

Great to see somebody offering up an alternative opinion, keep up the good work. The science speaks for itself and as a result I feel that Green Zones in Moreton Bay will be a good thing as long as they are implemented and managed correctly. With an estimated 60,000 people migrating to SEQ every year for the next 20 years, sitting back and doing nothing would be grossly negligent.

[Tangles]

No offence taken at all Shane,

Moreton Bay is in Australia and Ill think you'll find that all that is asked is that scientific evidence that directly relates to Moreton Bay be put forward. Considering we are talking about a specific location with specific features, issues and needs, I think we deserve better than being fed privately funded obscure overseas studies.

Maybe i must be missing something, where are your the scientific facts on Moreton Bay, as I last heard the DPI recently thought the fishing population was healthy.

The greens base there submissions on adopting the Cars principle and adopting the overseas generated computer modelling program MARXAN to generate green zones.

I think the Bay and its users deserve better than feeding into MARXAN a set of questionable bio-diversity facts ( ie where people fish) together with socio-economic data and bingo, you have your Green Zones without ever having to put a boat in the water. Sounds like an episode of Yes Minister to me.

Shane, sadly what is lacking is the science, the real science and facts. Why do the Greens and EPA chose to ignore the local science actually on the Bay and rather choose to rely and adopt a set of overseas principles and computer modelling program to define the green zones? why, well thats there agenda.

The powers behind the AMCS dont care about the bay, its about gaining and using political power to drive an agenda and the history of their founding is in animal liberation. General joe public who does care about the health of the Bay will be spoon feed very basic political messages based on heartfelt emotive facts, like its only 30% surely thats not to much. How is that based on facts?

And I bet touching on Croangler, they want people to congregate around Mud, guarantee you it will be headline news months after the new Green Zones go in, headline will be Overfishing creates marine desert etc and theyll use that to illustrate the point and the fishos will get squeezed again.

Shane I just want the facts, not political agendas. The striking thing is about it all, why is it pollution gets ignored? why does the destruction of mangroves and creeks get ignored by the Greens? they know about it, why is the target fishing, well its about a line, a hook and a fish on the end of it,, or maybe im too cynical.

Im off the soapbox.

mike



Also I

[tunaticer]

I agree with croangler,
The way to make a fishery more sustainable is to extend its environment the same way we humans extend ours with new estates. Create an estate and watch the people fill it up in a very short time. Its the same with a fishery, by expanding its boundaries the fish will breed faster to utilise that free home space we create for them. An overly concentrated population in any localised area will see reproduction rates lower to a more sustainable level. Anybody that has ever bred aquarium fish will know the values of "room to breed" concepts.

If the EPA and the fisheries would develop a guideline and a "package" to cover the red tape and liscencing and design and approval locations for artificial reefs to be installed by any groups meeting the criteria we would have dozens of new reefs within 5 years all becoming productive in thier own right. As it stands now it is nearly impossible to get permission to create a new reef system due to nobody working together between the govt bodies. Fees and costs of components for the reefs make it prohibitive.

There are litterally hundreds of items around that would very easily meet criteria as reef building components yet the powers that be are not interested in making this avenue available.

Jack.

[3rd degree]

Thanks for the link Shane.

I have had a brief read through the site, and appreciate the fact that someone has gone to a lot of effort over the years to arrive at the conclusions outlined within.

What we have on our doorstep is a waterway that IMHO should not be compared to any other around the world.

As Aigutso points out the DPI (the department charged with Managing the fishery) have completed their own investigations and conclude that the fishery we know as the Bay is in quite healthy condition.

Do you know if the areas in which the reasearch was completed in the states was ever managed properly as a fishery or if it was just a case of open slather?

After travelling around the world and doing a alot of fishing in differennt locations, I have seen an awful lot of fisheries that have needed the implementation of green zones as the waterways there have not been properly managed and further they have been raped and piliged.

Without a doubt the common factor in all of these locations is pollution.

Given the existing restrictions, bag and size limits in place around Moreton Bay and along our Coastline, I don't think we need to implement further green zones at this time. Sure keep an eye on things on a regularly basis as the DPI does, but the implementation of green zones in a waterway deemed to be healthy by the Department charged with the management, smacks of some other agenda.

The only real issue affecting our bay at this time is pollution levels.

Regards


Jim

[manchild]

Shane ,we already got a goverment agency that monitors the bay on the daily basis -DPI.They say everything is ok as far as fish and fishing.How the hell the EPA came into this is still a mistery to me.?.They are scientist too and they are involved with the bay for years.Back to you.
George

[mowerman]

Shane ,we already got a goverment agency that monitors the bay on the daily basis -DPI.They say everything is ok as far as fish and fishing.How the hell the EPA came into this is still a mistery to me.?.They are scientist too and they are involved with the bay for years.Back to you.
George

I had a chat with a good friend of mine last week about the same subject Manchild.
He is fairly high up in a state gov department.

The current labor gov sees the DPI as PRIMARY industries and therefore a vehicle for the National party. Also being Primary they only control the commercial aspects.
Recreational users came under the control of the EPA.

And the DPI budget has been cut by approx 2/3 under this state gov.

Rod.

[PinHead]

shane..if you have listened to the premier and the EPA Minister, they love using that word unique when discussing Moreton Bay. Unique means one off...different to all others...therefore research for anywhere else means diddly squat. At the last rally I asked the following question from the EPA bloke that was there. "Where is the qualitative and quantitative research regarding Moreton Bay"
I did not get an answer...therefore i will ask you the same question. Until there is a definitive answer to that question, I am totally opposed to any form of closures.

[billfisher]

I had a chat with a good friend of mine last week about the same subject Manchild.
He is fairly high up in a state gov department.

The current labor gov sees the DPI as PRIMARY industries and therefore a vehicle for the National party. Also being Primary they only control the commercial aspects.
Recreational users came under the control of the EPA.

And the DPI budget has been cut by approx 2/3 under this state gov.

Rod.

Primary industries are important to our economy and physical wellbeing - to say they are just a 'vehicle for the National Party' is rather silly. Recreational fishing comes under DPI control in all states as far as I know. Marine Parks are a different matter - that where the EPA has juristiction in Qld. In NSW they have been handed to National Parks and Wildlife.

[PinHead]

Mike...remember that in the EPA proposal. Mud island is designated as spoil grounds..dumping area for the dredges.

[Chris Ryan]

That's true Pinhead - and there will be exclusion zones around dredges whilst they dump their silt into the centre of the Bay.

I also see the 5 extra desal plants I mentioned at the last rally morphed into "portable" desal plants. How does one make a portable plant considering the input required to the water grid, plus the fluoride now needed for the water? Seems I was pretty close to the mark.

Chris

[Wahoo]

Shane
green zones work and work well
unlike most PPL that sit in front of the pewter and read this and read that about green zones, i have done a great share of diving in green zones and like i said they work,

Daz

[PinHead]

Shane
green zones work and work well
unlike most PPL that sit in front of the pewter and read this and read that about green zones, i have done a great share of diving in green zones and like i said they work,

Daz

they work at doing what?

[Lovey80]

Shane
green zones work and work well
unlike most PPL that sit in front of the pewter and read this and read that about green zones, i have done a great share of diving in green zones and like i said they work,

Daz

From a diving point of view im sure they do work. That doesnt mean the fishing will get any better for the poor buggers that have been shut out. It's not like the bay is fishable every where as has been said umpteen thousand times already, there is a limmited amount of these area's that hold fish and the greens/EPA want 95% of it. THAT is greedy!!! Creating Artificial reefs is the best solution for all.

Cheers Chris

P.S. If I was Premier, Fisheries dept would get a 5 fold increase in funding to actually police the current regs that are working any way.