Election Fallout ~ Have Your Say

[revs57]

Hey Mik,

I agree, there is a need for constructive review...an internet forum isn't the best forum in my opinion. To many keyboard warriors

We would have to be the only lobby group that has washed its laundry publicly that I am aware of.

Perhaps a meeting or series of meetings are necessary if the idea of a united political group is to reform.

I reckon the buck stops here...we the fishing community (not just ausfish) are responsible to make any review safe and inclusive for all players

Cheers

Rhys

[DR]

one solution is for a password protected forum to be set up..it would need to be lightly moderated & not with mods personal views, anything in the way of personal attacks or really offensive to be deleted..
if you are genuinely interested get a password & join in, but if you are single minded & thin skinned, stay away.
works on other forums across the world.

[revs57]

Yeah like what rhys?
At least here there was a dialogue going on between people with vastly different views that normally would not occur.
And you are right..the fishing lobby was scorned to the point of ridicule at this election....largely due to a lack of unity and communication.
Ah well...lets not sort out our differences now and try to find some common ground but rather lets wait until a month before the next election and then go through the same disjointed debate again.

kingmakers...what a joke!

scott

G'day Scott,

Mate I'm not sure of exactly how it could come about - whether an independent advocacy group like MBAA could sponsor and broker a meeting or series of meetings or perhaps someone like Senator Ron Boswell who is a staunch supporter and advocate of fishing related issues could be approached to help here.

I'm not a pollie, and I know some may want to hang draw and quarter me for these suggestions but we've gotta start somewhere.

And I'd reckon you are right. The key is to find the common ground and something to build the future on while reconciling the past with justice, peace and goodwill. Now that doesn't mean the tough questions don't need to be asked and the hard issues shirked, but nor does it mean any more blood on the floor, smearing one another and playing the blame game.

Hmmm...now I remember why I stayed on the side line of this part of the forum

cheers

Rhys

[kc]

I note the varying opinions on wether this whole issue is better aired and put to bed now, 3 years before the next election or, as has been mentioned, gloss over it and allow it to maybe continue to fester. There will be recriminations across all the losing sides. What goes on amongst our liitle band will be inconsequential compared to what will happen in Lib/Nat ranks but still IMO needs to be done.

I take the liitle dig about the "kingmakers" line...not our orignal slant but a line I used elsewhere....and..just to conclude. Minor party votes determined the outcome of Senate seats. We now look like having Senator Boswell returned in Qld on the back of the "fishing vote" & we have Family First, along with an independant for SA in very powerful positions (The Kings).....AFLP has a good working relationship with FF as evidenced by them pursuing the criminal convictions issue in the Senate before the election. We also do not have a Greens Senator in QLD

As I indicated I would, I have been compiling a detailed review of the entire process and history of the party and the ultimate decision to split from TFP, the players, the reasons and the documentation. All this needs to be ready for any court case anyway. I have also done some homework on the behind the scenes "work" which went on with the preference deals and pressure and who is/was behind all that. That is being forwarded to the Federal Police because something pretty ilegal appears to have just happened.

What I have put together will open a few eyes and maybe a few minds but I will not post it till the dust has settled a bit more and all the statements made are able to be substantiated.

I will however post one small section which is designed to put to bed the issue of AFLP actually being part of TFP in NSW.

I would also caution uniformed comment in big red letters as to the extract. This is a matter either to go before the court or a matter which will be investgated by the Federal Police.


"When we officially formed TFPQ we did so, with our formation executive, very clear in both the knowledge and documentation, that we could not be party to the TFP structure or constitution and had to remain at arms length. (Original minutes of formation meeting confirm this intent and structure suggested on legal advice).

To this end, from day 1 we had

• A totally separate constitution.
• We had a separate bank account.
• We hade a separate ABN.
• We issued separate receipts.
• We had any membership fees paid to The Fishing Party (Qld).
• We issued membership cards identifying members as The Fishing Party (Qld).
• We conceived, developed and paid for a separate logo.
• We conceived, developed and paid for a separate web site.
• We maintained totally sperate financial records
• We had audits undertaken by the AEC and ATO as a separate entity, not as part of the TFP tax audit.
• We have a separate registered officer/Party agent.
• We maintained a totally separate membership list. A membership list, which has never been divulged to TFP or any other third party, with the exception of the ECQ and AEC. The other exception to this is the part member list provided to Shane of the SE Qld members. That he has since made this available to Smith will be an issue if a court finds TFPQ to be a separate entity. The TFPQ member list is protected by privacy laws.
• We were never notified of or invited to attend a meeting of The Fishing Party, an executive meeting of TFP, an AGM of TFP, nor were we ever invited to participate in policy formation, a constitutional review or any other function of TFP. If we were, as is asserted, members of TFP I would have though we would have also been participants in the party.

As we gained momentum and profile we had enquiries from potential members from other states. When we did we referred them back to Bob Smith as we were the Fishing Party (Qld), not The Fishing Party. (Emails will attest to this) and, likewise when TFP received membership enquiries from potential members, in QLD, they referred them to us (and again, emails will attest to this)

Somewhere along the line one could reasonably assume we were a separate entity and the formation executive and executive ever since has made an effort to remain a separate entity".


I will also post another small exert from the review in terms of the decision to seperately register with the AEC


"After over 2 years of internally trying to fix structural, constitutional and representation issues, in-house, (with no joy) we had a executive meeting in Airlie Beach to discuss the future. This was shortly after the Qld State election.
This meeting was attended by, amongst others, Shane Boese and Mitch.

At this meeting the determination was made that, after years of trying, the best option was to “go it alone” and regsiter seperately with the AEC..
This was well discussed and wholly agreed upon, including, very enthusiastically by Shane Boese.
Shane even offered to go to Canberra to the AEC offices on the day of the re-registration process to personally make sure our application was in first. We mistaken believed at that stage that it was a case of “first in first served”.
This action by Shane is hardly the action of someone now crying foul and trying to have us believe that he is and always was a member of TFP and not or never a member of TFPQ.
All this appears in minutes of meeting.

• What was behind Shane’s resignation from the TFPQ executive? Was it his newfound belief that TFPQ was going to move away from TFP and TFP were the good guys, or was it that TFP was a vehicle, which Shane felt would best suit his own ambitions?"

Anyhow. For what it's worth I think the air should be cleared completely and if not here it will be done so through the courts or via the Federal Police anyway. I also believe the heat needs to die down and the discussion take place in a week or so.

KC

[Tracker]

well written.

[mik01]

I'm a bit of a 'johnny come lately' around here, which is why I won't be initiating such a meeting - its not my place to do so.
however, I am interested in becoming more involved with a UNITED fishing and lifestyle party for what value (if any) I can add. (by the way - I wasn't in a position to support anyone other than by voting in this election)

I do think that perhaps a good way forward is a poll or survey of target constituents on what makes them tick and what matters most to them (sorry if this has already been done?). From there I guess you can begin to build your policies and formulate the business plan for your party (I'm not 'up' with political structures etc - is this a naive way forward?)

If something is to happen, who will lead the way? What forum will be established to discuss and design it? Will Ausfish be the central point for this discussion or are the mods not keen for the site to be involved?

KC, Adamy etc - maybe you guys should stay on in some form of involvement as you have plenty of invaluable advice and knowledge and I see plenty to offer a united party in future? would be a shame to waste all that knowledge and passion.

Mods - please advise if you wish me to cease discussion on this topic. No worries if so - I understand that its not my forum and won't be offended.

p.s. - this is separate and totally not related to any recriminations, smearing or carrying on about the past...

[Little grey men]

I'm just a weekend fisho who likes to take his little boy out to catch a few.. I really don't know much about politics and it's internal workings. But whatever the outcome from the weekend, I'd like to say to everyone involved , thanks for giving it a go and trying to protect whats precious to people like me. good on ya

[webby]

Whooooo Stop the Bus, let me Off, we seem to be making a Mountain out of a Mole Hill.
I didnt think it right that the door was slamed shut, the key thrown away and everyone told to gag themselves on their rights to voice their opionions.
I was not only referring to the Fishing Parties either, their are many parties involved in making this a democratic country.
And no matter what party you follow, intend to follow or are thinking of supporting, all members of any party have the rights to have a say as to how that party sets it guide lines.
As for the Either Fishing parties, the tentacles are long and not everyone can get to these closed door meeting.
For some this website is the only means of communictions to the Party leaders.
So if you shut the door, how or by what means can these long distance members have their rite of say.
My orginal message was that i was concerned that all threads revelant to the elections was immediately closed, with no avenue open to communicate or some to have their say, christ the elections arent over, their are still seats that havent been decided.
Unless another half dozen new threads were opened, it was the only means of those wanting to have their say.
I really dont care what party you follow, but i'll admit i was a member of the Fishing Party Qld until the divide and the sarcasam/bickering started between each, they then lost me and i would say a lot of other members for the time being, until either or one can get their house in order, and we have a united front, not each trying to climb the ladder over the top of another, as far as im concerned they wont go any futher then they have at present with the results of this election.
No matter which one you do follow, their all going to have some impact or say on our sport or hobby of fishing.
Yes this is a Fishing Website, bbut as the year progress and more and more areas are close, we need some avenue besides smoke signals to voice our opionions.
regards

[PinHead]

with some suggesting the solution is to nut it out behind closed doors...isn't that what created the mess...too much going on behind closed doors?

[Ausfish]

If people could stop being keyboard heroes and actually discuss things there would be no need for posts to be edited or deleted.

I was even threatened with legal action by one of the candidates if a post wasn't removed. I couldn't see anything wrong with the post and they had a the right of reply but they decided to threaten legal action instead of replying to the post.

So, if a post is against the rules or legal action is threatened then the post/thread will either be locked or removed.

By the time some people read a thread and/or it is removed or locked there is often several posts that have been removed already that most people never see. A post is usually only removed after members have already been warned and several threads removed.


If people can discuss the matter in a professional adult manner than there is no need for any action to be taken.

Discuss by all means, but do not slander or make personal insults or threats.



.

[disorderly]

As for the Either Fishing parties, the tentacles are long and not everyone can get to these closed door meeting.
For some this website is the only means of communictions to the Party leaders.
So if you shut the door, how or by what means can these long distance members have their rite of say.
My orginal message was that i was concerned that all threads revelant to the elections was immediately closed, with no avenue open to communicate or some to have their say, christ the elections arent over, their are still seats that havent been decided.
Unless another half dozen new threads were opened, it was the only means of those wanting to have their say.

Spot on webby.

It has been suggested to hold closed door meetings so as not to provide ammunition for other parties against us by debating over the internet.
There are a couple of problems here.

1. I really cant believe that any other parties take either of the fishing parties seriously.Man, if they even know they exist I'm sure they are laughing at them.

2. Now I know that this is hard for some to understand but the world does not revolve around SE queensland .Even on this queensland fishing site a recent poll has shown that just over 50 percent of respondents live in or around brissy.
If all correspondence and decisions were made down there then I think it would be tragic for any fishing party and all of those who are left out of the loop!

As webby states "don't shut the door"on us out of towners.

3.It's also been suggested to let the electoral failure and recriminations die down before analazing the situation and start formulating a plan for the future.

I disagree.While this issue is fresh in the minds of many is the time to talk.In a couple of weeks many of us will be on school holidays looking forward to christmas and the new year.

Politics will be forgotten.....
Probably till just before the next election......
Just like this one

Scott

[kc]

Maybe, given the issue the mods may wish to move this to a separte thread or delete it, or even remove for posting at a later date. Their call and no issue with whatever they decide to do. KC


The overview has been completed but it is both complex, wordy and, by necessity in great detail and just too long to post here.

Following is a dot point/abridged version for Ausfish but if anyone wants to read the entire document they will need to email me direct (not PM me) at kc@whitsunday.net.au

In dot point form however it covers the following issues.

• Was the TFPQ a separate legal entity with the right to register separately with the AEC? Legal opinion, sections of the act etc.
• What was behind the decision to register separately and who was involved in the decision and what/who were the reasons, personnel & timelines involved?
• What was the reason behind Shane’s decision to leave TFPQ and throw his support behind TFP in NSW?
• The late entry by the TFP into the QLD Senate election clearly destroyed the Fishing Vote in Qld. Until this late entry the fishing vote was going to be united, even if AFLP and TFP were not. This announcement was not made until after the group voting ticket (preference arrangements) had been made and then, at such late notice, it was Bob Smith & his daughter who were the last minute candidates. Why?
• Someone benefited from the fracturing of the Fishing Vote. Clearly it was not AFLP and it was not TFP either. It most certainly was not the recreational fishing community. Those responsible have both blood on their hands AND an issue which the Federal Police will investigate…might even end up being called…Wait for it……Fishgate! What just happened is against the law. Voters were deceived.
• A review of the various preferencing arrangements and preference flows, which did occur and would have occurred.
• The issue of the legality of the TFP statement that they were running to ensure the National Party got its preferences. It is against the law to run in an election for the sole purpose of gathering votes on behalf of another party.
• The issue of any illegal practices within the scope of the electoral act and trade practices act.
• All documentation, minutes of meetings, email trails and substantiated evidence is either included, or, available as this will form a brief to legal counsel, AEC, Federal police and the media.

As a summary of the document it has to be added that something very dodgy just happened and it may well have been as a result of political interference in the fair electoral process.

It is clearly an incredibly dirty game and we have naively blundered into it and maybe have no place playing with fire. The fishing vote, in QLD, was a threat. It was a threat to the system, a threat to both sitting and potential Candidates and had to be stopped. It was.
Bombastic attitudes, bold, red letter proclamations and lack of political acumen all contributed but in the end all those involved, myself included, were outsmarted and played like fools by experts. Some of us can see it. Some of us can not and maybe never will.

By any view and with the value of all advice, including that of the senior lawyers at the Australian Electoral Commission, there is no issue as to our ability to register.
If the best TFP can do is trot out self styled and unqualified legal opinion from Terry Sharpels/Ned Kelly then we clearly don’t have too much to worry about in this regard.

That Shane can cry foul, so loudly and in big bold red letters, does not change the fact that he was absolutely involved in the process of the separate registration, which was minuted. It also supports the fact that he left the party, due to him being told he would not be the Senate candidate. Shane is a convert of convenience, not of morality or ethics.
This was always about personal ambition, not about what is best for recreational fishing and again, minutes of meetings and personal emails will attest to this. Shane’s reason for involvement in politics is an overwhelming ambition to be elected to something, anything, and TFPQ was his chance. When this ceased to be his chance he switched camps and has tried ever since to justify this change. It is, in light of the evidence, email trails and minutes of meetings, an indefensible position.

The biggest and most disheartening thing to come from this fiasco is that the recreational fishing movement, after crawling into the main game for 4 years has now taken a body blow as a result of political power struggles and self interest.

I will personally take the hint and I do not believe I should have any more involvement in the executive of our party. It would be wrong. It would be damaging and it would allow no chance for those who will take the party forward to build any bridges.

I can’t wait till I get the chance to hand out how to vote cards for our next senate candidate from a united recreational fishing movement in which Shane, Bob Smith and the puppet master who pulled the strings on this fiasco have no part to play.

I will involve myself in this thread for a while and then retire to the fishing chat pages and for sale sections. It’s been an interesting ride for 4 years and we have made some positive difference. What just went on, particularly when the background is exposed, has however, taken away any chance of looking back with any fondness. The quest for power is the great corrupter and nothing will ever stand between a politician and votes, least of all morality, ethics or any semblance of personal loyalties.

KC

[Lucky_Phill]

I am going forward...... I have taken a deep breath and will now focus on the immediate issues.

There is a very important issue at hand and needs urgent attention.

The impending re-zoning of Moreton Bay is about to be tabled in the parliament. I have no doubt this will take place just prior to Christmas and when you all return from the holidays, it will be in place.... I can hear the " What The's " already.

For those who have the fight, spare time and take the threat of massive closures seriously, pm me back asap and I will enlighten you. For those of you that fish in Moreton Bay or utilize it in any way, pm me. In fact, anyone who falls into the ' keyboard warrior ' category and wishes to do something a little more constructive, send me a pm.

Cheers Phill

[PinHead]

I love those threats of legal action Phill...I usually just respond with my lawyers name and phone number and tell them to contact him...never had anyone do it yet.

[Ausfish]

"The biggest and most disheartening thing to come from this fiasco is that the recreational fishing movement, after crawling into the main game for 4 years has now taken a body blow as a result of political power struggles and self interest."

Sadly this is exactly what happened. But we must all move forward now, recoup, rejoin and stop the closure of Moreton bay.

If we continue to fight over what did or didn't happen then they win again. Or maybe that is what they intended to happen.