furuno bully boy tactics at Sydney show....???

[Lovey80]

Dunco, I do support Australians at almost every oportunity. When an Australian business/industry has been ripping us off(thats exactly what it is)for such a long time it's about time they got what was comming. By me buying O/S and encouraging others to do the same i'm doing my part in making the Australian distributors and retailers take note (if enough people do the same) that this practice is totally unacceptable. If these same Australian bussinesses weren't setting the industry to do the WRONG thing by the average Australian and were pricing their items fairly then I would be supporting them. I could understand 50 or 100 bucks more but DOUBLE wake up to yourself Dunco.

Cheers Chris

[finding_time]

Lovey80

More than double!! No need to exagerate mate to get you point across.

Snelly got his 585 and1 kw transducer for $2230 i got my 585 and 1 kw transducer for just under $3600 this also included fitting, due to the fact it was a wet box and there was very tight access this was a BIG job, maybe not a $1300 sized job but it was done right.

But i do have 1 big advantage over snelly , say i was going fishing and my sounder wouldn't work, i can just about garantee i would have a loner while they fixed mine( i always buy my gear from the same place and they value my business) , so i'm still fishing ( how long would snelly be out of action) also i have a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing i'm helping a Aussie business

Ian

[Lovey80]

Finding_Time, my point is that you should have paid around the same price as Snelly from with in Australia and with some of the horror stories about Australian electronics dealers the turn around time on warranty jobs seems like it would be quicker to send it back to the US and get it back. At the end of the day there's no excuse for $1300 over charge so they don't get my business.

Cheers Chris

[finding_time]

Chris

Fitting !! You forgot the fitting! it was a big job involving glassing, new spinout and fitting( all with no room to work in) this would have account for at least 400-500 ofnhe amount!

As i said in a earlier post , in australia we have one extra in the handling chain ( importer) and yes he's making money, but he has expenses half the posters on here haven't even considered ( eg Marketing, sales reps etc.)

Also as i said earlier this will probably be rectifyied when companys such as furuno stop having importers in each country/ sector, an start sell direct to approved retailers online( i believe this will happen) Then well should have a level playing field with only currency differances. Of course larger retailers will still get discounts for volume, so that level playing field will still be tipped towards the larger markets.

I have no great problem with people buying overseas to save a $, i just prefer the safty of buying here, in fact if i need new electronics i dont even shop around here i just ring the same guy every time and get i there!! Yes this probably costs me money, but there are other benifits that to me are worth more than a few dollars, namely that if i have a problem today and i'm fishing tomorrow and they cannot get the unit repaired in time i know i'll get a loner to get me fishing. The reason i get this type of service is because i have been a loyal customer for many years and they know it and look after me accordingly.

Ian

[Lovey80]

I totally get your point there finding time, i also like your loyalty as the guy that you go to has obviously shown you some in the past thats worth going back to.
Where is Furuno's factory ie what country are they made in? I would have thought (like everything else these days) that they are made in Japan or Asia somewhere is that right??

Cheers Chris

[marco]

Lovey80

i can just about guarantee i would have a loner while they fixed mine( i always buy my gear from the same place and they value my business) , so i'm still fishing ( how long would snelly be out of action)

Ian

Ian ,
2 weeks snelly would have been out of action , i know this for a fact as i had what i believe was a rare problem with my 585 and i choose to send it back to the states for repair . total cost to me ..........$45 and i had furuno techs ringing me at my home to fix the problem .

about your local guy giving you a loner whilst yours is in for repair , that is awesome service and a rarity i would suggest as i can guarantee with my local guy does not do that and im one of the guys that has dropped 85k on the table there and i would not expect it either.

also ian you didnt answer my earlier question , are you saying it is the norm for retailers to charge 80% mark up on items $1000 - $2000 ? and if so is that ok to do so in your eyes ?


ian i think you have lost the context of this discussion , it was about furuno aus acting as bullies in regards to honoring warranty servicing for overseas purchased products .

usa purchased furuno sounders have international warranty and because they are purchased from the usa it is furuno usa that pays for furuno aus to repair such item . that means furuno aus is not out of pocket and in fact they make money from furuno usa for the repair , but it is documented that furuno aus is employing tactics to make it difficult for customers who have purchased overseas to get what they have paid for which is international warranty and that from all accounts is a breach of there contract with furuno the manufacturer as well as restriction of trade laws under the trade practices and fair trading laws in australia .

also when 2 or more companies engage in practices of inflating a market cost that is known as price fixing and that as you should know is also illegal and i say this as it appears that the majority local marine importers all have grossly inflated prices compared to the usa market , and that should answer your earlier question to me , some thing about " what the ? "

so ian my question to you is as a business owner do you condone the above sort of behavior to the Australian consumer ?

i think dunco sumed it up perfectly when talking about market prices , but you surely cannot expect loyality from local customers if you are in the business of fleecing whatever you can get from the market . my point is it is a two way street .

now on the flip side given everything that has been spoken about , taylor marine actually lowered there price on the fcv 585 late last year . so in my case i brought mine from the states for 1880 delivered ( inc taxes ) with a 600w transducer and at the time of purchase they were $2700 locally but 2 months after i brought mine they dropped to $2200 for the same package , so for $300 extra i believe that is a fair margin to pay for the fcv585 locally and i would have done so , just a pity they dropped it after i brought .


and a note for john martin , in reference to the huggies nappies comment , could you please read the post correctly before making comment , it was in reference to ian's comment of woolworths making more than 80% mark up .

this has been a very interesting chat but what happened to ozlongboarder ? he started this then bolted lol



cheers
mark

[finding_time]

Ok Mark i'll try and answer you quetions as best as possible, please note again that i'm not in the boating industry so i'll speak in gereral terms.

As far as 80% goes i think you'll find this fairly standard but obviously then more expensive the item the more room you have to move and keep your businees incomes above the cost of overheads .

As far as 2 companys engaging in inflating prices go, you have still lost me on that one.? Any company can sell anything for what they can get as long as they dont knowingly co-operate with there compeditor in the market to artifically inflate the price. Has furuno and lowrance done a deal? Furuno usa sell the right to an austrailian company yes there is a international waranty but you have to accecpt that while the australian importer has to comply to that agreement he isn't going to be 2 happy about it and would rather look after the customer that looked after him not the one that cut him out of the loop ( this is human nature)

Back to the importer and retailer, looking at overheads for a minute the Australian importer has quite a few, first he's got the amount he pays furuno to have the dealership, add to this storage, salesmen, marketing ( he would be responsible for any marketing here in Aus, magazine ads, trade show space ) whps complience on the warehouse and staff that work there, workcover and super for staff, vehicles, frieght , insurance etc,etc,etc,..

And remember this is the extra guy in the loop!


Then you have your retailer

floor space , staff ( and all accociated cost), storage, freight , marketing ,insurance ( biggy) phone bills etc , etc,etc it even cost $9 to each fire extinguisher check every 6 months! There are alot of cost doing business in australia( you hear this alot for very good reason)

For all of that and the numbers( and it's all about numbers) they do and the money they have invested, no i dont think an 80% return is to bad and i garantee you the retailers( unless your a big one like woolworths or westfarmers) are not making a killing and are running on fine margins.


This is where american/ asian internet sales companys have a big advantage, Big turn over, they get a better price from furuno( i would think), much lower wages and over heads, do they have a shop front or is it all internet sales and the biggy they cut out 1 middle man and his costs and you can bet thats where the differance in costs are. You can bet these companys are working of a similar mark up, maybe a little less because of volume!

As far as the prices dropping on you 585 , this happens with ALL electrical items ( YOU PAY FOR GETTING EARLY) my old ff50 cost me$3200 in 2001 3 years later they were $1800 My mate got on of the first Plasma's screens here in Australia it cost him $40,000.00 you could now get that tv \'s equlivent for $4,000 .

The 585 will be even cheeper in 2 years time.

I can totally appriecate snelly getting a unit overseas as he lives quite remotely anyway and the differance in turn around time would be minimal , but missing a trip because my sounder was on the fritz would hurt much more than paying the extra i do to get the service i do.

Hope i got all the questions that time, and as i said in my first post i dont agree with the aussie importers rudeness, but i can understand his frustration.


Ian

Ps.
Mark i hope you not one off these poeple that complaines every time he get a indian call centre ringing him? I mean all the banks and telstra, optus have done is find the australian product to expensive so they have sorced there product from O/S to save themself some hard earned money. Isn't that what we are talking about here. Something to think about

[snelly1971]

I can totally appriecate snelly getting a unit overseas as he lives quite remotely anyway and the differance in turn around time would be minimal , but missing a trip because my sounder was on the fritz would hurt much more than paying the extra i do to get the service i do.

Thats right Ian...we all dont live close to cities and Stores and the other thing you didnt take into account is the different weather conditions between us..a couple of weeks not being able to fish is just normal here...sometimes it can be a month before the conditions are safe enough to venture out...

Cheers Mick

[finding_time]

I can totally appriecate snelly getting a unit overseas as he lives quite remotely anyway and the differance in turn around time would be minimal , but missing a trip because my sounder was on the fritz would hurt much more than paying the extra i do to get the service i do.

Thats right Ian...we all dont live close to cities and Stores and the other thing you didnt take into account is the different weather conditions between us..a couple of weeks not being able to fish is just normal here...sometimes it can be a month before the conditions are safe enough to venture out...

Cheers Mick

Yep i know mate ,that's why i can totally appreciate you position, still it would be a bummer if the big hole in the weather coincided with an equipment failure Still getting it fixed would take as long though as returning it to place of purchase. It sure is nice down that wst coast though!

Ian

Ps boat looks good

[Stumpthumpa]

Ian,

You are on the mark with your importer points. Another thing not generally considered is the the price the importer can pay for a product is not the same in all countries. It is not uncommon, in another industry you mentioned at the start of this thread, for an importer to pay almost the same price as the store buy price in a key market like the USA. Manufacturers have different selling prices to key markets compared to others of lower volumes. It also gets even more complicated where an independent distributor (importer) in one country is compared to a country where the manufacturer may have wholly owned distribution. In this case there can be a really low "intercompany" price - depending on where the international company (manufacturer) choses to make a profit or offset costs.

[FNQCairns]

Finding time can we swap the expendable portion of our bank balances each month! The extra time saving to afford the Aussie sold identical product could amount to 2 months, it would on my next big boat bit, a plotter. I find that if I do need to wait for repair OS it will amount to far less lost usable unit time over my ownership.

=====

The US can be very provincial with still lots and lot's of small retail outlets selling marine electronics, they do not have the touted mass market due to their locality, local competition and local population.

If I understand correctly each of these sellers would source from Furono proper in the states, each of these sellers would pay for common business overheads more or less IDENTICAL to Aussie businesses.

If what I assume is correct the discrepancy in pricing here in A over those US businesses, must/can only ever be GST (they sometimes have state tax's also), freight and import duty which I would assume could add as much as 15% TOTAL to the cost of any single unit in USD, why do we pay so much for these identical units.

The next logical step is to assume we could be paying as much as 100% markup - for profit only. There is no other way to look at it, volume selling is a crock, the small US seller has nowhere near the volume of our distributors, advertising is tax deductible.

I ran out of a way to justify the extra money from my family's mouth and future long ago.

I can only assume the average joe blow is a far harder mark for bussiness to swindle with industry association type claims of being hard done by or doing the best they can under the circumstances than goverment and the media, I know I hardly ever swallow it.

cheers fnq

[finding_time]

FNQ

We can swap the expendably portions if you want as long as we swap the amount of time we have available to use that expendable money!

So far this year i have had about 9 day off in total the last being 8th of july aleast half the days i work are 16hours long and the average week over 100hrs in total some are 120hrs. I own a new baot as of march which i've been fishing in 3 times. Would you really swap you present lifestyle for a few more $ in the bank i wonder? I am VERY time poor ATM! But enough self pity

Conducting business in the USA cannot be compared with here is Aus It is much more expensive to run a business here! My wife works for a Very large US company and head office in Boston cannot believe the cost associated with running businesses here is australia! Every thing from staff to insurance, even to sq/m floor space in comparable city's is much more expensive in australia. I believe minimum wage in the US is about $4.50 and hour and genrally most thing are cheaper in the states from food to cars , even houses. Why wouldn't sounders be the same , it's very hard to compare markets without taking into accout a great deal of things. And as mentioned by stumpthumpa how do you know what price furuno sell to the american market at and what price they sell to the Australian importer at, it would be very silly to assume that they were the same.

The internet has opened up the world and many industry are strugling to keep up with how it will effect there traditional business, i still dont believe the aussie end is making a KILLING and RIPPING US OFF, i think there is alot more to it than that.

Ian

Ian

[brock smith]

boats a noble super v.sounder/ plotter was $1400.model was discontinued after twelve months so must of been a ripper.even if it loses bottom it should still be able to read bait if set for shallower depths but if it looses bottom it goes nuts
s.sounder came as part of new boat package and was installed by them.check on the humminbird website as you can still download the manual and see if you can find where it tells you what wires to use as an nmea interface
s1000 was installed by me and is dead easy .3 hour job.worked fine for twelve months and is awesome for trolling for marlin.i could live with the warranty claim but there service was a joke.by the way the box is 400 by 400 by 250mm and weighs 5kg so if you can courier that for 15bucks goodluck to you.best price i could get was $60.
as for furunos(tm) arrogant attitude and poor product knowledge theres not much to say.if someone can find out more then them about their products by searching the internet its shows there lack of passion.i did do alot of research before buying the furuno 585 and the s1000 and have confidence that as a product there great.will also be fitting a navnet radar system before christmas as had to many near missus trying to make it to the shelf by sunup and plan on doing someovernighters.and i do realise that the navnet can be used as a fishfinder but i wanted a stand alone unit.

[FNQCairns]

FNQ

We can swap the expendably portions if you want as long as we swap the amount of time we have available to use that expendable money!

So far this year i have had about 9 day off in total the last being 8th of july aleast half the days i work are 16hours long and the average week over 100hrs in total some are 120hrs. I own a new baot as of march which i've been fishing in 3 times. Would you really swap you present lifestyle for a few more $ in the bank i wonder? I am VERY time poor ATM!

Ian

Yes mate life get's you one way or another, my primary roll is a stay at home dad, it's a lerk in it's self in many ways, so far this year have had only 4 full daylight days off, normally work 24 hours a day though..lol.
No comparison I know

cheers fnq

[finding_time]

FNQ

We can swap the expendably portions if you want as long as we swap the amount of time we have available to use that expendable money!

So far this year i have had about 9 day off in total the last being 8th of july aleast half the days i work are 16hours long and the average week over 100hrs in total some are 120hrs. I own a new baot as of march which i've been fishing in 3 times. Would you really swap you present lifestyle for a few more $ in the bank i wonder? I am VERY time poor ATM! But enough self pity

Conducting business in the USA cannot be compared with here is Aus It is much more expensive to run a business here! My wife works for a Very large US company and head office in Boston cannot believe the cost associated with running businesses here is australia! Every thing from staff to insurance, even to sq/m floor space in comparable city's is much more expensive in australia. I believe minimum wage in the US is about $4.50 and hour and genrally most thing are cheaper in the states from food to cars , even houses. Why wouldn't sounders be the same , it's very hard to compare markets without taking into accout a great deal of things. And as mentioned by stumpthumpa how do you know what price furuno sell to the american market at and what price they sell to the Australian importer at, it would be very silly to assume that they were the same.

The internet has opened up the world and many industry are strugling to keep up with how it will effect there traditional business, i still dont believe the aussie end is making a KILLING and RIPPING US OFF, i think there is alot more to it than that.

Ian

Ian

Ps. as far as volume selling being a croock, well were not talking about little corner store retailers in the states, were talking about BIG internet traders and yes VOLUME IS A IMPORTANT FACTOR the more you shift the less you have to make on each unit to cover your costs and achieve your profit level, These internet traders would have 10 -15 times the turnover of our retailers maybe much more