2 Stroke Oils-Are they really different?

[Tailortaker]

I just rang Bribie boats and they told me to give the tcw3 a miss and step up to the xd50, This will reduce the smoke (if not eliminate alltogether) and increase performance. It's a synthetic oil and will only cost about 10-15%more than the crap i'm using..
T.T.
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Lamborghini gallardo specifications

[FNQCairns]

TT well done, you are getting closer to what is true about our 2 stroke oils, think you will find the xd50 is not tcw3 certified (was not when I researched it anyway)it is a world above even the best tcw3 anyone can buy anywhere, use it with confidence, it more or less is the oil we all would be protecting our investments with without politics/green groups/big business.

By the way it is a semi synthetic which today can mean it is really just a mineral oil but that aside it has real and capable additives designed for use in a 2 st not like every single certified brand of tcw3 sold on the face of the earth.

cheers fnq

[Noelm]

I have used XD50 in my outboards for ages and have heaps and heaps of hours on them, and they are Fichts as well, which everyone THINKS are duds, but really do not know!

[Poodroo]

Thanks to all who have replied. Some valuable info is being shared and hopefully I am not the only one learning here. Currently I am using Valvoline myself. My brother uses Caltex and will not use anything else. Even at the R2M I had a spare 20litres of fuel I took on board just in case but he insisted he add his own oil to it which is fair enough. Now something I always thought and understood of 2-stroke motors is that smoking is normal due to the fact the oil is in the fuel and burns through. I might try the XD50 when I run out of this batch of oil just to see if I can notice a difference. Not sure if I need any more performance out of the Tohatsu because it is already flying. But I guess if it wants to go faster still because of a better quality oil in it then it must be good for the motor. I will keep an eye out for more info that everyone posts up. Thanks again,

Poodroo

[FNQCairns]

Yes thanks for the post poodroo, straddie's post set me thinking so I did some digging around the net, seems the Aussi Yamalube IS Caltex's tcw3 repackaged (diff colour??) and none of the Bomadier rec products XD oils are tcw3 compliant actually that should be tcw3 certified.

Now to find out how much 4L of Caltex tcw3 is and drop the Yamalube as too expensive or to distrust the Yamalube/Caltex altogether because it has a seperate certification than the US Yamalube (the one with the good reputation) so it is a different blend, better?, same? worse??

Or just use the XD50 which was once the torco oil (as was xd100) I notice now torco no longer sells this once very good oil but does still sell a basic tcw3 that I couldn't find as certified either ....xd30??
feeling like a mushroom.

XD50 = $70 = 3.78L = makes 190L premix = Too expensive!!

Bugger me

cheers fnq

[lippa]

i've only ever used the oil the manufactuor has recomend. with my current merc, its been the quick silver oil. i have never had a drama. i'm not in to penny pinching when it comes to my motors, they gotta get ya home!!!!
with the old evirudes i had, that had many owners before me, i used the castrol tc3 w equivelent. seemed to be the right choice.

cheers

lippa

[bushbeachboy]

So if I change from Yamalube to XD 50 in my oil injected 40 Yammie, will I be likely to run into oil gelling problems? Or what if I was to change to Quicksilver Premium which I like the smell of much better than Yamalube (in previous motors)?

[FNQCairns]

BBB, Cannot speak for the xd50 as it is not a tcw3 but the tcw3 spec includes the ability for different tcw3 oils to be mixed, if it cannot then it doesn't get the cert. This was one of the reasons they upgraded the spec from tcw2 to tcw3.

So as far as the spec goes you can do it, but I assume leaving 2 different types of oil in the tank for 4 months wouldn't be a good idea in any case, so wait till the bottle badly needs a fill before adding a 1/3 volume of the new stuff then wait again till it badly needs a fill and fill her up OR just do it, the spec says you can.

cheers fnq

[baitable]

try shell nautilus, found this to be a good oil on my 2004 merc 90 tstroke. Seem to idle smoother and was cheaper than quicksilver oil.

[Cheech]

I have been using caltex for about 3 years. I recall that before I switched the motor on that boat was more smokey, and better after teh caltex, so have continued with it into the nest 2 boats. Do't really know if it is better or worse, just that I use it.

[disorderly]

So FNQ,

Do you think its too much of a stretch to run xd100 in 2st outboards?
this is about $75 a US gallon and would cost almost half as much(running at 100-1) as xd50 with the benefits of less carbon and almost no smoke.
In the smaller hp range it would certainly be affordable but what are the risks of running 2 strokes at 100-1 pre-mixed with this oil?

Scott

[BM]

It has long been held in the trade that outboard manufacturers TCW-3 oils are far superior to oil company TCW 3 oils. Its important to note that TCW-3 is only a "standard" and as such most oil manufacturers as I understand it meet the minimum and thats good enough.

Mercury however claim to have twice the additive package of any other outboard manufacturers oil but in any case other outboard manufacturers oils are very good also and typically well exceed the TCW-3 spec.

Good 2 stroke oils have high levels of detergent in order to properly clean out carbon from the cylinders, ring lands, piston crowns and combustion chambers. Some (Mercury and possibly others) contain octane boosters in the oil also to assist in combating stale/degraded fuel.

As Sal used to say all those years ago "Oils aint oils".

Many won't agree because they put it in and the only way they judge if it works is by 2 methods.

1) Engine didn't seize so it must be ok.

2) How smokey is it? Too much smoke - well its gotta be the oil. Maybe but not necessarily.

They don't pull them apart after a failure and see all the gummed up crap around the rings and crown and the general bad state of the cylinders which is caused by crap oil.

Put good oil and good fuel in, get good, reliable performance out.

Or... stick to your petrol station oil and stale fuel in the tank and wait for the trouble.......

Cheers

[FNQCairns]

Disorderly no risk for the rings, possibly some for the bearings, and possibly a degree of corrosion while sitting around waiting to be used.

Yamaha had a problem with coke and their 3 ring engines, they changed to 2 ring pistons but for some engines they mandated for warrenty, a 100;1 mix to cover the design flaw. People say they got good life out of their yamaha 100:1 ers.

Mercury tried it, Johnson tried it, they both soon changed back, although this was with tcw3.

If I needed to get home and had a full tank but only half the xd100 to dose at 50:1 I would pour it it in and run home as if nothing had changed and wouldn't expect to see a problem from it ever. Although I prop well so the angular forces on the big end needle bearings are relatively lax.

So dunno a good answer to your question.

There are so many variables, one thing is for sure with Bom's xd oil not pandering to the biodegradable additive brigade (I suspect) which is TCW3, they now have an oil that is of equivalent quality in protection as a good 2st motorbike/snowmobile/waverunner oil, nobody has ever used a tcw3 that even comes close.

Want to try the experiment

cheers fnq

[cormorant]

I worked for an oil company a long time ago - but not in the oils/ technical field.

Avoiding mixing brands - seems good advice though mostly they will mix together ok.

Synthetic oils have some proven benfits in my car. ...

ETEC 'c can be set up for Xd100 - and have a 1:100 oil ratio. That means even lower emissions and probably much better lubrication. Its cosst a lot more per bottle - but less per hour running.

it would be good when others catch up to this idea of better oils and higher mix ratios.

Gary

Hi Gary

100 :1 is a ETEC marketing myth as far as I can work out. 80:1 is closer to the mark in real life but it depends on the work the motors do as under load the ECU pumps more oil. The ECU pumps at different rates according to Temp , load and revs but an average might come in at 80:1 on a motor in general use. My knowledge is on the larger motors so may be a little different on the small cc motors as they have lots of torque and spin up fast so would spend less time labouring at load. Not cheap at 80 to one and $17 per liter as that works out at $0.20 ie 20 plus cents additional per litre of fuel spent on oil.

XD100 is a full synthetic and should be costing $60 max per US gallon (3.7l thats between 16.20 dollars a litre) and less if you buy a fair bit. Don't let your dealer / BRP rip you off. Some USA users are using another oil that is one third the price but fully synthetic but still wouldn't be on the XD100 setting for warranty but at one third the price it would still be more ecconomical than XD50. Willl try and remember where I saw it and get a name to see if it is distributed in Australia.

Basically you have a choice to use the oils with all the anti carbon mixes and detergents additives or instead go through the decarbon process at each service is the way I look at it.


C

[hungry6]

When we used to race jetskis, most are 2 stroke btw for obvious reasons.The one oil most of us used and swear by was shell nautilus 'synthetic'.
To my understanding TWC-3 was formulate to "completely" burn in the combustion process and produce less polution and in some brand they are also biodegradable in water. Most motorbike 2 stroke are far superior to TWC-3, but is has a bigger enviro. impact than TWC-3.
Also as alot of ppls said. NEVER mix 2 brand of 2 stroke oil.

ahhh it early and my brain is still not functioning properly atm, but i will get some more details later.