Ethanol Fuels?

[Dignity]

When I used Woolworth's unleaded in the 30hp outboard I kept getting the fuel connector O ring swelling up to such a degree that once disconnected the fitting would not go back on! A change of brands fixed it, also the petrol engine car's economy bolted up after the change so now I use sign a crucifix every time I drive by been a couple of years now.

That 5hp mercury test has some interesting peripheral information on ethanol but since the test was conducted in neutral the results are at best just a curiosity, no engine behaves in emission in neutral throughout it's rev range like it does under load and throughout.

cheers fnq

FNQ - my wife is not remotely mechanically minded nor does she notice any unusual noises in the car but one thing she can tell me is what I have filled the ole jackaroo with. Down here if I use Caltex (your woolies stuff) she doesn't complain, if I use Shell she winges a lot and really lets me know if I use BP (very rarely) then I get an absolute earful and am not gane to do it ever again (I still occasionally get caught out) . The fuel generally comes from 2 refineries in brisbane, 1 speaialises in Diesel the other in petrol although they both produce both products. How come my wife who is as thick as 2 planks (sorry dear) when it comes to anything even remotely mechanical can tell me what fuel I have used. I never used to worry about it but ever since she started in on me I can tell the difference. I don't know of the process from the refinery to the pump but there must be some intervention somewhere.

[Dignity]

So how about it pinhead can you explain WHY then?

Kerry, have yet to read the rest of the threads in this post as yet and might be out of line here but currently driving a company car and use - yes BP. Have found that all the newly fitted out BP stations only sell fuel with 10% ethanol. No choices here. Has anybody else noticed this.

[Dignity]

poodooroo - this is about the thrid thread in a year on ethanol posted here and each time it creates a lot of interest and the ante to responses is upped - just love it - even more info posted this time

kerry - still playing the devils advocate, great to see as you do try to bring everyone back to facts - most of us myself included tend to perpetuate myths and it is good to see there are plenty of knowledgable/technical people out there, this is what the forum is all about. Unfortunately a lot of info is dispelled by pure heresay - quilty your honour.

craig, I think most of us are talking about outboards and these will not operate on a totally closed system. Know very little about inboards etc so can't comment but would think the newer ones around would operate under a closed system.

my wife - was refering to your mechanical capacity and not your size (which is 1 plank)

[marco]

FNQ - my wife is not remotely mechanically minded nor does she notice any unusual noises in the car but one thing she can tell me is what I have filled the ole jackaroo with. Down here if I use Caltex (your woolies stuff) she doesn't complain, if I use Shell she winges a lot and really lets me know if I use BP (very rarely) then I get an absolute earful and am not gane to do it ever again (I still occasionally get caught out) . The fuel generally comes from 2 refineries in brisbane, 1 speaialises in Diesel the other in petrol although they both produce both products. How come my wife who is as thick as 2 planks (sorry dear) when it comes to anything even remotely mechanical can tell me what fuel I have used. I never used to worry about it but ever since she started in on me I can tell the difference. I don't know of the process from the refinery to the pump but there must be some intervention somewhere.

to try and help you , the two refineries are bp and caltex and all the terminals in brisbane are linked for supply from both refineries . shell gets most of there stuff from bp as do mobil and caltex supply a lot of independents as well as woolies .
if your having probelms with shell and bp , same stuff barring any additives added whilst loading , there is also a lot of imported fuel and the quality of the singapore diesel has been better than locally refined stuff .

in regards to a earlier post about woolies fuel being no good , how long ago was that ? i ask that because the early days of woolies was very el cheapo imported fuel and for the last 18 months or so the goverment changed the laws that stopped the import of below standard fuel . hence why singapore diesel can be better than what is brewed locally as they were forced to improve the refinery process.

[Dignity]

thanks marco - it was fnq who had trouble with woolies fuel - we find it ok which around here is mostly caltex

[FNQCairns]

Only just read thislast page and got a shock!, Marco that is real good info thanks!! it was over 2 years ago and subequent inquiries resulted in information that the fuel at the woolies servo's was imported although the fuel at Caltex was not, the bloody woolies fuel used to make the car ping it's head off, economy/power was very bad, it was just rubbish! (just quietly I bet it cost more than a couple of people thousands of dollars in outboard rebuild )

Wish I knew earlier that the Gov straightened them out, for ages now (obviously) I have been watching people fill up there and felt sorry for them - oops!

Dignity that was a good observation you put forward, will certainly try woolies again and see whats up!

cheers fnq

[PinHead]

Contamination is not an everyday event but contamination depending on the supplier can/has/will be one of those things with water. Unfortuneately one doesn't become aware of this until the whole show comes to a complete stop and one is bobbing around on the water, trying to change filters.

Practice is to stay away from low volume suppliers but then if one cops the bottom of a tank then water is a fiar bet.

As for closed systems, boats do not have closed systems as apposed to vehicles, so they are open to the atmosphere as well as in rough conditions a half full tank can/will suck it's own water through the breather.

Regards, Kerry.

mine is completely sealed.

[marco]

Only just read thislast page and got a shock!, Marco that is real good info thanks!! it was over 2 years ago and subequent inquiries resulted in information that the fuel at the woolies servo's was imported although the fuel at Caltex was not, the bloody woolies fuel used to make the car ping it's head off, economy/power was very bad, it was just rubbish! (just quietly I bet it cost more than a couple of people thousands of dollars in outboard rebuild )

Wish I knew earlier that the Gov straightened them out, for ages now (obviously) I have been watching people fill up there and felt sorry for them - oops!

Dignity that was a good observation you put forward, will certainly try woolies again and see whats up!

cheers fnq

woolies actually stopped using the cheap stuff well before the government did anything in brisbane . this would be almost 4 years ago they started to use good stuff in brisbane at least , down south it was not so long ago . not sure about up north though

[Spaniard_King]

mine is completely sealed.

So Pinhead when you pull up to the bowser do you quickly take off the fuel cap and shove the nozzle in so that the vaccum in your tank can suck the fuel from the bowser rather than having to pump it in

Garry

PS mate I recon you would have to have a breather somewhere>>>see above

[PinHead]

So Pinhead when you pull up to the bowser do you quickly take off the fuel cap and shove the nozzle in so that the vaccum in your tank can suck the fuel from the bowser rather than having to pump it in

Garry

PS mate I recon you would have to have a breather somewhere>>>see above

do you have to do that with your car??? then why would my boat be any different??

[Spaniard_King]

your car (if EFI) will have a fuel pump in the tank to pump the fuel from the tank.. your boat will be sucking it from the tank.. Your car there fore can still operate with a vaccum in the tank but I am sure you will fing there is a point at which the cap for your car will let air into the tank top reduce the vaccum. Your boat is a more simple system using a lift pump to draw fuel from the tank and cannot withstand more than a slight vaccum in the tank. hence you hear a lot of problem because the owner has not opened the vent on the tank (ie potable fuel tanks) or a breather has blocked up and they are experiencing fuel starvation problems.. hope that is easy enuff to understand

cheers

Garry

[PinHead]

your car (if EFI) will have a fuel pump in the tank to pump the fuel from the tank.. your boat will be sucking it from the tank.. Your car there fore can still operate with a vaccum in the tank but I am sure you will fing there is a point at which the cap for your car will let air into the tank top reduce the vaccum. Your boat is a more simple system using a lift pump to draw fuel from the tank and cannot withstand more than a slight vaccum in the tank. hence you hear a lot of problem because the owner has not opened the vent on the tank (ie potable fuel tanks) or a breather has blocked up and they are experiencing fuel starvation problems.. hope that is easy enuff to understand

cheers

Garry

yes it is easy to understand Garry..does that mean I can rip the fuel pump off each motor and toss them away ???

[Spaniard_King]

yes it is easy to understand Garry..does that mean I can rip the fuel pump off each motor and toss them away ???

Doesn't look like you understood it like I hoped

The lift pump I refered to for your boat motor is located somewhere on the motor itself so ripping it off and throwing it away is not advisable but it is your boat and you can do as you wish

Garry

[PinHead]

Garry,
I think you may be thinking I have outboards..I don't...have Volvo V6 stern drives...therefore I do not need a breather on the tank..running high pressure fuel pumps...very similar to a car system.

[Spaniard_King]

Pinhead,

I think you will find a low pressure diaphram lift pump mounted on the side of the volvo which supplies the high pressure fuel pump unless Volvo has changed things since I last played with them.

cheers

Garry