Ethanol Fuels?

[Black_Rat]

Like if the stuff was so environmentally friendly and all warm and fuzzy then the growers of the raw product would use the stuff to produce the stuff, wouldn't they? So why don't they?

Your correct, there probably using Diesel

[Poodroo]

Kerry I want to base my decisions on the majority here, not just one. BP is just one company and to be honest in my opinion they are not the most reputable. First of all they were one of the first companies caught sneaking ethanol into their fuel mixes as shown on A Current Affair some years ago. At that stage there was little known about ethanol in fuel and there was an uproar because motorists were not supposedly getting 100% fuel which is what they were paying for. Since then with more research into it fuel companies have decided that ethanol in fuel is not such a bad thing. When ever there is even a hint of fuel price increases has anyone else but me noticed BP is always the first to put their prices up and normally by more than all the other companies? They lost my business years ago but that is straying from the main topic however. If all fuel companies adamantly stated that ethanol is a bad thing for marine applications then this thread would not have developed. So Finga, how long has the Honda been running on ethanol? lol

Poodroo

[finga]

About 2 years

[FNQCairns]

When I used Woolworth's unleaded in the 30hp outboard I kept getting the fuel connector O ring swelling up to such a degree that once disconnected the fitting would not go back on! A change of brands fixed it, also the petrol engine car's economy bolted up after the change so now I use sign a crucifix every time I drive by been a couple of years now.

That 5hp mercury test has some interesting peripheral information on ethanol but since the test was conducted in neutral the results are at best just a curiosity, no engine behaves in emission in neutral throughout it's rev range like it does under load and throughout.

cheers fnq

[breamexplorer]

I would have to say Kerry that I have never had an issue with water in the fuel and up to now have not had any form of water seperator fitted, didnt even know there was such a thing until I started looking further into this issue,,,

This came from the Yamaha website....

These are the most common problems:
• Ethanol can attract and absorb moisture from the air, primarily through fuel-tank vents. That means a greater chance of water-contaminated fuel.
• Ethanol can dissolve some solid materials commonly found in fuel tanks (such as varnish or even oxidation in steel and aluminum tanks), thereby contaminating the fuel. Additionally it can loosen any corrosion or particulate matter in the fuel system, or even dissolve components in some fuel systems (such as fiberglass fuel tanks).
• Ethanol blends can react chemically with MTBE fuel blends, causing additional contamination. See the FAQ about MTBE fuel blends for more information.
• Because fuels with ethanol tend to chemically break down sooner than other formulas, your gas can go “stale” sooner.

To avoid these problems, Yamaha recommends the following actions if you use ethanol-blended fuel:
• Install a Yamaha mini-10™ filter (under 150 hp) or 10-Micron filter (150 HP and higher) or other 10-micron filter designed for use on boats with Yamaha outboards. Both Yamaha products filter out contaminants and separate water from fuel. This is particularly important on EFI and HPDI engines. Carry spare filter cartridges in case the filter element becomes clogged with contaminants while the outboard is in use.
• Use fuel system components that are compatible with ethanol blends. Replace those in use that are not compatible (e.g., fiberglass fuel tanks).
• Use fresh gas. Do not store fuel containing ethanol any longer than necessary. We recommend regular use of Yamaha Fuel Stabilizer and Conditioner, available from your Yamaha dealer, for extended fuel storage, whether or not your fuel contains ethanol.
• Avoid co-mingling MTBE and ethanol-blended fuels. As a precaution, use only one supplier for fuel purchases in the months ahead to ensure consistency during the industry changeover period from MTBE to ethanol blends. Also see the FAQ on MTBE.

I will be looking at instaling this type of filter.. (water seperator)

[PinHead]

[b]

So Poodroo then how about to tell us WHY you want to use it or even thinking of using it?

Oh exalted one of boating..it is pretty bloody obvious...all fuel will be 10% mixture before long..simple as that.

[Kerry]

I would have to say Kerry that I have never had an issue with water in the fuel and up to now have not had any form of water seperator fitted, didnt even know there was such a thing until I started looking further into this issue,,,

Are you for real, never heard of a water separator? Never had an issue with water?

Absolutely amazing! BTW buddy a straight filter does not filter out water, never heard so much absolute BS!

[Kerry]

First of all they were one of the first companies caught sneaking ethanol into their fuel mixes as shown on A Current Affair some years ago.

Some years ago? Be specific! Sales geek sounds pretty close for me?

[Kerry]

Oh exalted one of boating..it is pretty bloody obvious...all fuel will be 10% mixture before long..simple as that.

So how about it pinhead can you explain WHY then?

[Kerry]

Why don't some of the brains trust outline why Ethanol is so "environmentally" friendly ????

[BilgeBoy]

The White board it is then Poodroo.

to explain. I head up the Australian arm of a company called Autodata which is a UK based provider of technical information to the automotive industry. traditionally we published technical manuals for mechanics (Like a Timing Belt book) however these days we cover a very broad range of topics.

Technical support is a big part of our service and to keep my team of techs as up to date as possible...we have regular technical lessons on the white board. The thing is, I suggest the topics, then they have to research the topic and give a factual presentation to the rest of us. I will give this one to the manager in that department as he loves to get right into the technical aspects....he won't disappoint!! That should keep Kerry a bit happier

BilgeBoy

[trueblue]

My reputable mechanic advised me to put 1 cup of metho into my fuel per 75 litres (Standard unleaded for a 130 HP Yammy 2 stroke Saltwater Series). He said that this small amount of metho was helpful to ensure that minescule amounts of water that can 'leak' past the water separator and clog tiny jets will be absorbed into the fuel and passed through the jets without incident.

Gary (Spaniard King) I'm interested in your opinion regarding this approach and what it may or may not do to the o rings etc in this very low concentration.

Cheers

Mick

[Eagle]

My manual that came with my Mariner 60hp 4st EFI states, Do NOT USE alcohol type fuels in this engine. That's good enough for me so I will NEVER use the stuff. Alcohol blended fuels attack all aluminium alloys and eat the metal away. I accidently left an alloy motor soaking in an alcohol base fuel and when I came back the motor was ruined. The BEST advise is, DONT USE the stuff, NOT EVER!

Eagle

[Poodroo]

The White board it is then Poodroo.

to explain. I head up the Australian arm of a company called Autodata which is a UK based provider of technical information to the automotive industry. traditionally we published technical manuals for mechanics (Like a Timing Belt book) however these days we cover a very broad range of topics.

Technical support is a big part of our service and to keep my team of techs as up to date as possible...we have regular technical lessons on the white board. The thing is, I suggest the topics, then they have to research the topic and give a factual presentation to the rest of us. I will give this one to the manager in that department as he loves to get right into the technical aspects....he won't disappoint!! That should keep Kerry a bit happier

BilgeBoy

Thanks BilgeBoy. I can always count on you to be constructive when replying to a thread. I look forward to the outcome of the whiteboard meeting. This is what it is all about. At no stage have I implied that I want to use ethanol blended fuels but rather I was trying to learn some more truths ethanol and boating. Like Pinhead has said that before long there will be no choice in the future anyway. The whole idea of this thread was to get an opinion based on a whole and if the general vote is an emphatic and unanimous "No" to ethanol fuels to boating then I will have learned something and be able to steer clear of it when my boat is seaworthy. I do thank everyone for their input. I really don't think replying with hostility was very smart either Kerry.

Poodroo

[snelly1971]

My mate owns and runs 2 Stihl outlets here in Tassie...They have been told by Stihl Aust to warn all customers not to run ethanol based fuel in any of Stihl`s products 2 or 4 stroke as it is causing major concerns and warranty claims due to its ethanol base....I know there is a big difference between there products and an outboard...but it is the same principal i guess...

Would this mean that BP..or who ever is selling the fuel is open to litigation....or is it that the big fuel companys just dont care...