Qld Government Crocodile Conservation Plan

[luigi]

Anyone who lives, or ever has intentions of visiting, anywhere from around Rockhampton to all places north, to fish, go boating, swim, wade in the water or use a vehicle, had better make sure you put in a submission to stop the following ridiculously stupid proposal.

The following extracts have been taken from the relative Qld Government website. Full information should be accessed by going to: http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/nature_conservation/wildlife/native_animals/living_with_wildlife/crocodiles/draft_estuarine_crocodile_conservation_plan/

Quotes start:

38 Proximity to estuarine crocodiles
A person in control of a boat or vehicle must ensure the boat
or vehicle does not come within 10m of an estuarine crocodile
in the wild, unless the person has a reasonable excuse.
Example of a reasonable excuse—
a person in control of a boat is passing a crocodile in a river and the
distance between the crocodile and each bank of the river is less than
10m
Maximum penalty—100 penalty units.

39 Conduct in parts of protected area where estuarine
crocodiles are or may be present
(1) A person must not swim in a part of a protected area if a sign
in or near the part gives a warning, in whatever form, of the
possible presence of estuarine crocodiles.
Maximum penalty—100 penalty units.
(2) A person must not swim in a part of a protected area that the
person knows, or ought reasonably to know, is an area in
which estuarine crocodiles have been frequently sighted.
Maximum penalty—100 penalty units.
(3) A person must not stand at or above knee-high in water in a
protected area that the person knows, or ought reasonably to
know, is water in which estuarine crocodiles normally live.
Maximum penalty—100 penalty units.


You are invited to comment on the draft estuarine crocodile conservation plan and management program. Written submissions should be made by 4 May 2007. These should be addressed to the Minister for Environment and Multiculturalism and sent to:
Estuarine Crocodile Conservation Plan
Wildlife Management and Education
Conservation Services
Environmental Protection Agency
PO Box 15155
CITY EAST QLD 4002

Or e-mail: crocodile.plan@epa.qld.gov.au

Quotes end:



Please note that 1 penalty unit = $75 which makes the above fines $7,500 max.

Also, it’s my understanding from a phone call to the EPA, a “protected area” could be around 20 or so area descriptions including National Parks, World Heritage Areas etc…etc… etc. Actually, the senior person I spoke with says she will have someone get back to me with answers to this & several of my questions which she couldn’t answer fully.

It really makes you wonder how this garbage ever gets past the Minister. But then again, this Minister is on record indicating that the problem is not increased number of crocs but the increased number of people in the crocs area – a case of lateral thinking? If this sort of c**p can emanate from a State Labor government, I hope Kevin Rudd can exert influence over his (soon to be) Ministry & not let them or the bureaucracy run amok.

At this stage it is my intention to lodge a submission to the effect that;
(a) Rogue crocodiles and those crocs located in areas inhabited by humans should be removed as soon as possible.
(b) Items 38 & 39 should be deleted entirely from the draft plan.


Please treat this matter seriously & lodge a submission before the May 4 expiry date.

Many thanks - Lou

[Luc]

What a load of crap.

Summary, "if you stupid, w'ell fine you" that is if we can find you after the croc has finished with you.

Proposing to fine people for lack of common sense or sheer stupidity.
What does that say about the one who suggested it.

PS, who's going to enforce that?? I suppose if you're going to fine people for being stupid, you' d be able to employ shit loads of supidity fine issuers.

Luc

[tigermullet]

Oh God - they have finally got there (or will if this proposal gets up). Absolute stupidity.

If Peter Beatty doesn't start sacking a few of these people for lack of common sense then we are doomed.

That's without even starting on the Water Police who will have a field day with this rot. Imagine what it will be like to the able to issue on the spot fines to people who might come into near contact with a croc.

[Derek Bullock]

Minister for Environment and Multiculturalism
The Honourable Lindy Nelson-Carr

Wednesday, March 21, 2007
DRAFT CROCODILE CONSERVATION PLAN RELEASED FOR COMMENT

The Queensland Government is encouraging Queenslanders to have their say on the protection and management of one of Queensland’s most iconic animals – the estuarine or saltwater crocodile.

During a visit to a well known crocodile habitat in Rockhampton today, Environment Minister Lindy Nelson-Carr released the draft Nature Conservation (Estuarine Crocodile) Conservation Plan 2007 for public comment.


“The conservation plan regulates conservation and management of saltwater crocodiles in the wild,” Ms Nelson-Carr said.

“The plan represents a balanced approach to managing this iconic species in Queensland.

“In developing this plan, the Environmental Protection Agency aimed to get the balance right between public safety, sustainable commercial use of saltwater crocodiles and protecting these ancient, vulnerable animals in the wild.

“Now we want to hear what Queenslanders think.

“I encourage all Queenslanders who have an interest in these animals to have their say.”

Ms Nelson-Carr said claims that estuarine crocodile populations were exploding and should be culled were not based on fact.

“There is a view that crocodile populations in Queensland have exploded since commercial hunting was banned in the 1970s – this is simply not the case.

“It’s more likely that more people are visiting or moving into croc habitat, and so more people are noticing crocs.

“Saltwater crocodiles are a vulnerable species with only about 30,000 believed to be left in the wild in Queensland.

“Crocodiles are one of Australia’s native predators that keep the ecosystem functioning and without them, Queensland would be a very different place,” Ms Nelson-Carr said.

Copies of the draft plan are available at regional EPA/QPWS offices, online at www.epa.qld.gov.au or by phoning (07) 3247 5975.
Submissions close on Friday 4 May, 2007.
Media contact: Karla Steen on 3336 8004 or Andie Gatti on 3336 8002

[nonibbles]

The really stupid interpretation I find is that in all estuarine habitats in North Queensland the local councils currently have to put crocdile warning signs which can be interpreted as crocdiles live here beware (it actually means that crocdiles could possibly be found here i.e. is recognised as habitat that may support a crocodile. It doesn't mean that they are there or that they frequently inhabit that area). But the presence of a sign is a warning to stay out. An area where I frequently collect bait from is for all intents and purposes a lagoon that is fed by water that passes through rocks and concealed pipe under a road. A crocodile could not possibly traverse through this structure. It would have to cross the road. It is of course possible that the main waterway could support a crocodile (Ross creek). Now if I was to wade in to my waist to use my cast net that would be illegal. If I went in up to my knees it would still be illegal because of the presence of the sign. Remove the sign and the council is liable. Throw cast net from shore and be just as succeptible to croc attack (ie very very remotely in this particular waterway) due to the noise created attracting them. So this law will in effect ban bait collecting on foot in estuarine environments.
So they may not actually ban cast nets but they may actually stop us using them.
People who live and fish in these communities for a long time know how to behave in croc waters. Let the stupid ones find out for themselves.

[luigi]

Also, it’s my understanding from a phone call to the EPA, a “protected area” could be around 20 or so area descriptions including National Parks, World Heritage Areas etc…etc… etc. Actually, the senior person I spoke with says she will have someone get back to me with answers to this & several of my questions which she couldn’t answer fully.


Please treat this matter seriously & lodge a submission before the May 4 expiry date.

Many thanks - Lou

The EPA has got back to me & advise that "protected areas" come under Section 15 of the Nature Conservation Act & as such, Marine Parks are not included. A full list of areas is to be included in the "dictionary" section appended to the Draft Plan.

When I tackled them about the many shortcomings & problems I see regarding clauses 38 & 39, I was told in no uncertain terms that it is most important to detail all concerns in a written submission & lodge before May 4.

Cheers - Lou

[robersl]

well i see they found 1 in a n.t pool a few weeks ago does that mean all the swimmers get fined if one is found at a qld pool what a joke i thought they wee going to start hunting them again due to the increase in population

[luigi]

Hey Derek, thanks for posting the Minister's press release.

Some of her statements appear to reinforce the impression that this Minister is out of touch with the subject of crocodiles & in particular, with croc numbers. There are just too many reports of increased croc numbers from people in the field & from local populations observing crocs in areas seldom, if ever, seen before.

As far as I'm aware, there has been no recent count of crocodiles in the wild. Makes me wonder where her "fact" comes from that she can be so dogmatic in her statements - Quote:

"Ms Nelson-Carr said claims that estuarine crocodile populations were exploding and should be culled were not based on fact.

“There is a view that crocodile populations in Queensland have exploded since commercial hunting was banned in the 1970s – this is simply not the case."
Unquote.

What disturbs me is the fact that Minister Lindy Nelson-Carr is based in Townsville which can be said to be in the middle of crocodile country. Prior to being made a Minister, I was under the impression she was quite a good local politician who had the interests of the locals at heart. What happened?

Cheers - Lou

[Eagle]

All the Queenslanders reporting on this proposed new law should be those who live and work in the crocodile infested areas. Those who live South of Gladstone should keep their big mouth shut on this issue. The city slickers and stinkin' Uni scum who think they know it all are totally ignorant of crocodile reality. We that live with these animals certainly know and understand the true situation. The truth is, salt water esturine crocodiles are not needed in the environment and MUST be culled out. In plain language, this means totally shot out of existance in the wild. The esturine crocs are not needed to preserve the barramundi or any other fish or animal. The barramundi are looked after by the Freshwater crocs that eat the catfish that eat the barra fingerlings and barra eggs. The "Freshies" are the crocs that should be protected, not the esturine salt water crocs.
There are now esturine crocs and nests in Waterpark Creek and they move all over Corio Bay including Fishing Creek and Stony Creek. It is just a matter of time before someone gets taken, ripped apart and eaten. The crocs in Coorooman Creek are also a deadly menace and can be found within 100 meters of Keppel Sands, a town at the entrance to Coorooman Creek. Kids fishing here are at an enormous risk of being eaten. Some months ago, a man was chewed up at a creek in North Qld. Both the man and his wife were avid croc lovers and wanted these "lovely animals" protected. Ask the widow now if she would love the croc to be at home with her or does she want her husband back?
Crocs have become a serious menace because of a population explosion throughout the Queendsland coastline. This danger (now extreme in many areas) is not caused by more people "invading" the crocs territory. It is because the crocs have lost their fear of man. The crocs now know and understand that man wont hurt them anymore so the crocs now invade areas where more people live and work and fish and swim.
These proposed laws were written by lunatics who are totaly ignorant of the true situation. These same people open parliament with prayer to God, (you can see this on TV). If they pray to God then they obviously believe in the Divine power and the Commandments of this same God. (By the way, His name is Jesus, he is the Lord God). The people are hypocrites because they are not interested in the Truth and serving the real needs of the people. Their only interest is gaining votes at any cost. These narrow minded lowlife are not interested in the moral values of preserving people but instead, they worship the creature not the Creator. Their minds are fueled by their selfish pride and lust for more power.
In reading all the proposed changes to the law, I find there is nothing whatsoever a victim of an attack by a croc can do to defend himself or his family. What does a man do when his family members are attacked in their camp by a croc? If you destroy, kill, murder (?) the croc, will you still be fined? probably, yes!
The proper response to this proposed law is to make certain it never comes into force and bring in total culling (destruction) of esturine crocs. The only place for these savage animals is in a croc farm, never in the wild of Queensland or any other State on Australia. They are absolutely unecessary, get rid of them!
As for being ilegal to stand in water knee high, how does one launch and retrive their boat? To do so at all the boat ramps means being up to your waist more times than not. To do this means you will be fined $7500.00 because you are technicaly breaking the law! If ANY croc even looks like it might mount an attack on me or my family it will be permanently and fully destroyed instantly.
Eagle

[tigermullet]

Hey fair go! Some of us who live south of Gladstone will also be affected by this - we do travel you know and many, like me, will be in sympathy with your thoughts on the matter.

I will be making a submission to protest about curtailment of freedom. Not being able to wade etc., is absolutely ridiculous. Having lived in NQ and the Cape for a while I do remember the common sense precautions that one must take but hate to think that enforcement agencies will be able to determine whether or not my activity is within the guide lines set by seat polishers in Brisbane.

Items 38 and 39 must be eliminated otherwise practically all on water activity will place us at risk of fines. It is just breath taking stupidity.

[Eagle]

Hi Tigermullet,
Sorry to upset you and others, my apologies. The comment about south of Gladstone refers to those loungechair M.P's, and others who have never seen a croc not to mention have never cast a line into the water. These same people (having an armload of degrees and no common sense) think they know what is best for us boaties, fishermen and land owners. I have a mate who continually looses many of his prime cattle 'cos the Fitzroy River runs through his property. I dont ask him how many crocs he has "re-sited" but you probably have read of crocs being eliminated on the Fitzroy River in many areas. To loose a couple of cattle every week to crocs is no joke. Sections 38 and 39 MUST be removed from the proposal. There were 2 girls attacked by a croc while they were practising rowing at the rowing club in R'ton. They were just 50 meters from the clubhouse. The water ski area is now chockers' full of HUGE crocs and ski-ing is now extremely dangerous. I know a girl who was sitting in the family ski boat (moored to the bank) when a 20 footer came ALONGSIDE the boat and stayed there. Some friends of my neighbour were threatened by 2 crocs at keppel Sands while they were fishing off the bank. I have seen crocs in Corio Bay and the numbers in Corio are increasing. I know that nearly all of you who come up here or who live here have many stories of your own to tell of your own "exciting" events. I will be talking this week with the local members up here and voicing my thoughts and needs on Sections 38 and 39 and what has to be done to permanently eliminate the croc problem. We have not invaded the cros territory, they have invaded ours.
Eagle

[tigermullet]

You didn't really upset me, Eagle. My hide is as thick as the skin on a rhinoceros.

Your points are well taken - the crocs are becoming a real nuisance and I believe that the croc population is exploding. It was bad enough around Weipa, Aurukun etc., back in the mid 70's. I wonder what it would be like tramping around the area between the Embley and Hay rivers now? -- well, squelching through mud anyway. I don't think that I would be game to fish even near the railway bridge across the Mission anymore - not shore based anyway.

Back then there were many scares and one fatal attack but one old ex croc shooter told us that if we wanted to really scare ourselves that the back of Cairns had even bigger crocs.

I would like to get back to check out the area but only in a large, high sided boat.

Part of the reason that there are not many serious attacks is that people in north already treat crocs with respect for the danger they represent so I cannot see the need for items 38 and 39.

A cull, as you suggest, would be more appropriate.

[Flex]

Crocs have been sighted 30km out in the ocean. I have also seen tons of crocs along beaches,remote islands etc all along north QLD. So does this mean if I take a dip at whitehaven beach on the whitsundays I am breaking the law?

Or I launch my boat at cooktown boat ramp I will get fined? I have seen saltwater crocs up to 15km upstream in freshwater creeks after floods. If I wade across a creek to check depth before taking my care across Im technically breaking the law correct?

Seems rather naive to put forth such a proposal

[luigi]

It seems to me from posts in this forum & Letters to the Editor etc most people are concerned with the stupidity of Section 39 re entering the water etc....& rightfully so - this garbage must be eliminated from the plan.

As absurd as Section 39 is, as I see it, the real 'kicker' is Section 38 as follows:

38 Proximity to estuarine crocodiles
A person in control of a boat or vehicle must ensure the boat
or vehicle does not come within 10m of an estuarine crocodile
in the wild, unless the person has a reasonable excuse.
Example of a reasonable excuse—
a person in control of a boat is passing a crocodile in a river and the
distance between the crocodile and each bank of the river is less than
10m
Maximum penalty—100 penalty units.

This reads that you will be breaking the law if your boat or your motor vehicle is within 10 metres of a crocodile anywhere in the wild. They are not just talking about crocks in "protected areas" here - it's everywhere.
And don't kid yourself about their "reasonable excuse" being an escape clause to 'get out of jail' - try telling a copper that you didn't see a speed sign or stop sign & you will soon find out that not seeing or being aware of something is not a valid or reasonable excuse.

This section not only appears to be absurd, it's seems completely over the top & an example of sheer planning incompetence.

I can understand the intent (I think) of Section 38 and suggest something like the following could be substituted:
38 Proximity to estuarine crocodiles
A person in control of a boat or vehicle who deliberately and knowingly comes within 10 metres of a crocodile in the wild will be in breach of this Plan unless the person has a reasonable excuse.
Example of a reasonable excuse—
a person in control of a boat is passing a crocodile in a river and the
distance between the crocodile and each bank of the river is less than
10m
Maximum penalty—10 penalty units.

Cheers - Lou