Beacon to Beacon & Water Police

[BilgeBoy]

I was in a boating shop the other day and I overheard a guy say that a mate of his was pulled up by water police, who gave him a warning for not having charts on board. When shown the Beacon to beacon...they said that this was not a recognized chart Apparently he was in the Bay!!

WHAT THE....is this true!! So if I am a of Peel I still need a set of Marine charts??

BilgeBoy

[Hamish73]

I thought it was just 'navigation devices' , ie chart/beacon to beacon and a compass, or GPS/plotter etc

[Foxy4]

Gee that really makes you wonder considering that Beacon to Beacon is now Published and Distributed by Maritime Safety Queensland

[PinHead]

Page 4 of beacon to Beacon will tell you that it is a guide only and does not replace charts.

[Lucky_Phill]

BilgeBoy, you do not need a navigation device to fish at Peel Island as it is in Smooth waters.

The further MUDDY THE WATERS, a navigation device being :- navigation chart, liquid damped compass, other direction finding or position equipment... are NOT... compulsory equipment that must be carried. It is a " Safety Obligation " suggested in the Standard.

The compulsory equipment is:-

EPIRB ( all boats operating in more than 2 nautical miles from land and beyond smooth and partially smooth waters )

Signalling device....all boats

Suitable life jackets ( PFD 1, 2 or 3, depending on the waters you are in
or travelling through )

Fire fighting equipment ( all boats over 5 mtrs )

V-Sheet ( all boats in partially smooth and beyond smooth and partially smooth waters )

Flares.... ( all boats in partially smooth and beyond waters )

AND things like your navigation device, bailing equipment, Anchoring, oars and drinking water are " other equipment to be carried as a " Safety Obligation ' suggested in the standard ".

Further, on page 23 of the Guide to Recreational Fishing and Boating in Queensland, it is suggested that you can buy a copy of ' Beacon to Beacon " from various places. This suggestion comes under the heading of ' Navigation ".

Smooth waters in Moreton Bay are from Cleveland Point in a direct line to Amity Point.. south all the way through the Pin and to the Seaway and Nerang River.

Having said all that, who knows what the ' Standard " is and as it reads in the Guide, the only " complusory ' equipment is as stated above.

I'll have to look into it, me thinks

Cheers phill

[BilgeBoy]

Thanks Phil

Could be one of those "My mate said" stories and I was wondering if anyone here actually knows for sure. I would be very interesting if the B to B was no longer considered a Navigational tool.

BilgeBoy

[Lucky_Phill]

Beacon To Beacon does not have " Longtitude and latitude lines or markings and therefore, IMO, cannot be a navigational tool.

I have just searched every aspect of the DPI&F website looking for the Standard or even the Maritime Safety Queensland department. No go !

I have emailed the DPI call center and will get a response tomorrow.

I also have the number of a person from within that department who I will be calling tomorrow as well.

time to sort it out for sure !!!!

Phill

[seatime]

Thats true, the Regulations in Qld do not specify that you are required to carry additional equipment like anchors, chain and rope, navigation chart and liquid dampened compass, etc. This equipment is a recommendation to satisfy the "general safety obligation", not compulsory equipment.
The master/owner/skipper of a boat has an obligation to ensure the boat "is safe, properly equipped and crewed, and operated in a safe manner", in accordance with their proposed operating environment.
This "safety obligation" places the safety responsibility firmly in the hands of the operator without having to detail every single of item of equipment to carry.
Bearing in mind, that if sufficient equipment isn't carried and the operator is involved in an incident or accident that could have been avoided had they carried sufficient equipment, they could be prosecuted for a breach of their "safety obligation".
Equipment is not limited to the list in the handbook "Guide to Recreational Boating & Fishing in Qld" , it is a suggestion only.
Consideration should be given to the type of boat and it's limitations, the intended area of operation, the weather forecast and tides, when choosing the appropriate equipment and safety gear to carry. This is part of the trip planning, all the relevant information is gathered when making the plan.

One of the recommendations in the handbook regarding anchoring equipment suggests 27m of cable for a vessel 5-8m operating in waters beyond "partially smooth waters. I'd be carrying a lot more when travelling in open waters, offshore, many reef areas are much deeper.
"Safety equipment required to be carried by Regulation" is a minimum requirement, there isn't a maximum limit, you can carry as much safety gear as you wish, provided it is serviced and within it's expiry date.
The latest B2B have lat/long and are supposedly as accurate as Qld charts.

regards
Steve

[seatime]

This is probably the "standard" they refer to. An appropriate chart is mentioned.

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/documents/nat..._equip_000.pdf

Further regarding the "safety obligation", it is a form of "risk management" the the operator carrys out when trip planning.

[trueblue]

Beacon To Beacon does not have " Longtitude and latitude lines or markings and therefore, IMO, cannot be a navigational tool.

I also have the number of a person from within that department who I will be calling tomorrow as well.

Phill

Let us know please how you go.

This is really interesting... The Coast Guard have Beacon to Beacons in their radio rooms and on the rescue boats, because it is common for people to call up and give the referdex style grid position from that publication.

And guess what - so long as they gave it accurately, you find them right on the money where they said. A lot of people would call that a navigational tool if a rescue boat can easily find a guy who gives his position from the B 2 B, even though it obviously is no replacement for a proper navigational chart.

I'll bet the Water Police also have that publication in their boats too, for that very reason.

Before the knockers start knocking... I offer no opinion on the rightness or wrongness of the use of the Beacon to Beacon by individuals who choose to do so.

Cheers

Mick

[seatime]

"referdex style grid positions" ???

Edition 7, available now for 6 months has latitude and longitude positioning, same as hydrographic charts.

I know they're $35, but maybe it's time to lash out.

[trueblue]

I don't use it myself, I prefer the proper charts.

The Coast Guard base I am referring to has the older versions stacked up for just that purpose. Some people still have the old ones.

[seatime]

I carry both, would never be without a hydrographic chart for the area I'm using, don't like the way the pages don't overlap properly in the B2B, can't transfer position accurately, and there's no soundings.

[PADDLES]

i'm with you gelsec, i carry both the b2b and the bay chart. hardly look at either of them but they're there anyway.

[Kerry]

Thanks Phil

Could be one of those "My mate said" stories and I was wondering if anyone here actually knows for sure. I would be very interesting if the B to B was no longer considered a Navigational tool.

BilgeBoy

Probably wouldn't class B2B as a "Navigational tool" and it certainly would not satisfy the requirements where nautical charts would/might be required.

It is more a "guide", which should be used in conjunction with navigational charts and other aids/guides.

I even believe the word "navigational" should not be used in conjunction with these types of guides and there are a whole swag of similar books in a similar category.

Regards, Kerry.