Water Police unable to identify PFD1

[bootyinblue]

NO it is by far cheaper to get them tested and tagged. Replacement is an issue at the end of the ervicable life of the extinguisher, which in the vcase of small handhelds is 6 years (from memory).Regards, Kerry.

I'm just a single individual who has a legislative requirement to have a compliant fire extinguisher. Cost is 9 bucks ($A) each a year to be legal and at the same time the boat extinguishers are also done as then nobody can whinge about anything. This is a requirement and is a lot cheaper then replacing the dam things, period.

As for recreational boats 9 bucks a year isn't a big deal and if it is then time to give boats away.Reagrds, Kerry.

Gee.... Kerry. You really do like to express your 'point of view' in these threads, and look out if someone else waivers from what you think is right.

Not going to get into a slanging match here, however based on your maths you have quoted, on average 6years life span at $9 per year for a test is a total of $54.

1kg Fire Extinguisher Cat. 928X BIAS Price $16.95Dry chemical powder extinguisher, robust case, gauge at top. Australian Standard 1841.5 Includes mount bracket. Capacity 1kg. Fire test rating 1A:10B(E). Diameter 77mm, height 330mm

Now that would mean I could buy just over 3 of these little babies, so thats a shiny new one every 2 years. Not only do I get a new extinguisher I get the pleasure of a bot of retail therapy at the same time (LOL....only the chicks would understand)

Enough said....

[Kerry]

Some people have absolutely no idea of the issues, do they?

[trueblue]

Yes Kerry, That'd be you thats got no idea.

No doubt you have a large boat with larger reuseable extinguishers (and much more expensive - 2, 6 or 9kg units). And you no doubt have a business where you get your extinguishers tagged and tested. Thus, your price per tag and test for your business, car and boat comes down to $9.00 based on the number you have to get tested per year.

But the conversation was never about YOUR extinguishers, YOUR business expenses, and YOUR bigger than average boat and its extinguishers... It was about Mr Joe Average, with his little boat and little 1 kg extinguishers.

Most people have 1 or 2 single use 1 kg fire extinguishers on board their small boats. They cost $16.95 currently from Bias, and I have seen them as cheap as $12. Nothing wrong with them, they are just imported, and also can't be reused.

I called a fire extinguisher place in Brisbane (International bloody call just for you Kerry) and asked how much to Inspect and Tag these 2 extinguishers once per year, they quoted me $15 each (for a visual inspection - Cannot be Tested) if I brought them to their premesis. The fire extinguisher company has to create a paper trail of serial number etc, etc and history of inspection, so that is what costs the money. It is easier to just replace them each year on that basis (Bias or BCF are closer than the fire extinguisher Company - and much quicker). Thats the only point I was trying to make.

Totally different if we are talking 2, 6 and 9 kg fire extinguishers that are very much more expensive, or if we are talking about a fella who gets lots of extinguishers tested annually so he gets a better price than Joe Average.

Please be more considerate of Joe Average when discussing legislative issues before shooting your mouth off

Mick

[Kerry]

Yeah Mick I have 4 (that is FOUR) 1kg, 2 in the boat, 1 in the ute and a spare and for my miserable joe average four extinguishers to be inspected and tagged costs $36 per year (Thirty-six dollar including GST). These are standard joe average Chubb 1kg extinguishers serviced by Chubb and Yes I have to take them in.

So mick get off your high and mighty horse attitude and when you have lost your attitude then you might be worth talking too but at the moment your just wasting my time as you don't see the issue either.

Don't make assumptions mick, takes a long time to get your foot out of your mouth.

Regards, Kerry.

[Fat Chilli]

Kerry - Having read this thread and being a firm believer in 'the only dumb question, is the question not asked. I have one question; for my benefit (and probably a few others?) what is "The Issue"or "Issues"? Because I fail to see them also.

Thanks

FC.

[Trevor2]

I have read these posts and the Marine info Bulletin (http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/resources/...fd_int_std.pdf)

The bulletin states acceptable standards for PFD1 are Aust Std 1512.

Some of my jackets do not mention PFD but 1512 and have a serial number. These would seem to comply, am I correct in this assumption?

Kind regards Trevor

[seatime]

Trevor2

contact MSQ directly to get a definitive answer, there seems to be a lot of speculation.

Another item which can be helpful in markings on safety equipment:

where possible, mark the gear with the boat's name or rego number, it will be useful for identification if the need ever arises.

regards
Steve

[Kiktz]

Dave,

Did you happen to ask the question whether or not if you marked the life jackets your self whether that would suffice and meet the requirements?


Aj

[FNQCairns]

Thank god I got through the most prolific boating period of 15 years with my life after untold thousands of hours, not to mention the 10s of people who I have accompanied me or with - without dying! Based on current governmental consciousness it seems extraordinary! but I don't swallow it.

I wonder if those that do the patrolling for patsies would be better (in the national interest) to spend 70% of their wage time cleaning up random citizens yards (hoses, clearing steps, spraying spiders etc), from a safety point of view this would more than most likely be more effective on a wage dollar for result basis.

So very very easy to scaremonger, looking forward to when they regulate also for bar crossing a helmet (bumped head), removable cast's (broken bones) possibly a lightweight but flexable Kevlar suit (sharp protrusions), fire retardant cream ( bare skin surfaces) better stop now or our self serving regulated safety Nazis will get further ideas how to justify themselves further.

Just checked our brand new child's pfd 1 but it has inked writing only 5 mm tall! Buggered if I know if it is still legal? common sense has no bearing anymore.

I suppose if I relate my logic to the regulators I would have a case! as for sure wouldn't 6mm writing make the jacket overall less capable than 5mm writing -everything has mass.

Interesting how nothing really in boating has actually changed in near 30 years (some boats are more seaworthy now) yet the regulatory mindset has.

Those that think the chicken came before the egg will yell "we are now safer" because of the intrusions and job justifications, others who know reptiles lay eggs will say "I was in no way unsafe before these regulations and feel no safer now, because of the regulations actually less safe as an individual" but allas I only have but my life and many others as evidence and as an individual have no regulated right to feel or KNOW I am safe/er unless I am told I am.

Interesting to read in another thread where the bar crossing life jacket law threatended the murder of a citizen, circumstance was the saviour in this instance, I suspect in todays modern and sophisticated world the word 'collateral damage' could be applied??
I guess the saviour here is that under our 'twisted moral logic' the law cannot lawfully murder anyone, think about it!!

Overall I am no safer today than I was 15 years ago and actually feel less safe as the real areas of consern are left wanting -no way will I take my 3yo daughter to the swings in the park in my region - WAY WAY UNSAFE.

Yep sick of it!

cheers fnq

[castlemaine]

You guys just made me check my life jackets. Rang a Boating supplier (sponser of Nugget) and was informed 3 out my 5 life jackets (less than 4 years old) do not conform due to lack of reflective strips. AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaGGGGGGhhhh
What if they change the rules again in a couple months?
I can see tigermullet's frustration.
Time to sell my 4WD, boat and camping gear, and get the kids to roam the shopping centre for entertainment.
The Greenies and government adminstrators are winning while we're fighting amongst ourselves.
AAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! !
oops, sorry had to say it again.
Cheers

[tigermullet]

I have read these posts and the Marine info Bulletin (http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/resources/...fd_int_std.pdf)

The bulletin states acceptable standards for PFD1 are Aust Std 1512.

Some of my jackets do not mention PFD but 1512 and have a serial number. These would seem to comply, am I correct in this assumption?

Kind regards Trevor

Trevor - I asked the same question of MSQ because our jackets have the same marks AS1512 plus a serial number but was told that it was not sufficient and the jackets would not comply.

I then asked if the information that was published in the Sunday Mail boating section was correct and the answer was, 'Yes'.

The conversation then continued and I was told that MSQ have a copy of the new
Standards but were not able to email me with the information - copyright applies.

Therefore if you want to check the actual wording of AS1512 (1996) you will have to obtain a copy of the Standard. I don't really know how to go about that but imagine that there would be some cost involved.

I have tried to load a file with the actual wording from the newspaper article but, as far as this forum is concerned, it is an invalid file. Will copy and paste in another submission.

[tigermullet]

Recent changes to sea safety regulations have highlighted the need for all boat owners to carry life jackets and PFD's (personal flotation/safetydevices) that conform with Australian Safety Standards.


Even safety jackets maintained in excellent condition and stamped with the Australian standards 1512 number are now obsolete. The new legislation requires all jackets to have the words PFD type 1, PFD type 2 or PFD type 3 clearly marked in block letters not less than 6mm high.


For example, the PFD type 1 adult large should be clearly marked with the manufacturer's name or trademark, plus the model, batch number and year of manufacture, as well as buoyancy grading and instructions on how to correctly wear the garment.


Breaches carry a $150 fine.


The above, Trevor, is the wording from the Sunday Mail boating section 18-02-2007.

The jackets must also have reflective tape.

It seems that the legislation requires that they comply with
AS 1512 but it is up to each of us to find out the exact wording of AS1512.

I know that there will be excuses or reasons for the legislation or regulation to be worded in such a manner but it really is a bit mad. It implies that we not only have to keep an eye on amendments to the regulation but must be conversant with the Standards.

It would have been so easy for MSQ to send out the proper information so that we are all informed and educated by slipping a notice into the boat registration renewal.

I hope that this information is taken in the spirit that is is given. I don't mind a bit of a 'stir' from time to time but boy did I get jumped on for getting a bit hot under the collar when I first found out about this last Sunday week.

Okay - I did get a bit irrational but that is now over and if any one wants to have shot at me this time for using 'is a bit mad' please be kind in the use of language - my delicate ego is a bit bruised at the moment.

You would think that MSQ or the Water Police would be kind enough to do a bit of educating before handing out fines. I will bet that not one boatie in a thousand knew about this until the article appeared in the Sunday Mail. The boating section of the Sunday Mail did us all a very great favour by alerting us to the situation and I am very grateful that they did.

I cannot guarantee this but I gained the impression that the new legislation was brought down quite a while ago - mention has been made of AS1512 (1996) and hundreds, if not thousands, of us must have been in breach ever since its introduction.

[Reel Hard]

So how does one get on when on the water with the kids and your jackets need to be inspected. The kids Jackets are marked on the inside and when they are removed it would be a breach of the regulation to take it off to see the markings???

[Trevor2]

Can anyone point me to the rules/legislation that state that the words PFD1/2/3 etc must be on a jacket, and specs the size of the lettering.

MSQ website http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Safet...ation_devices/ on PFD's (updated on 23 Feb 2007) still states under PFD1's that they must comply with AS 1512. There is no mention of these other 'rules'. The other MSQ item is the Marine Info Bulletin that deems those that comply with AS 1512 as as acceptable as PDF1's.

I cannot find any other reference on MSQ's site about these other requirements.

Regarding reflective tape - if it it just a case of needing this, it can be purchased at most chandlers and added to jackets. I have done this in the past and self adhesive tape does hold well. Can't remenber about the rules regarding fixing. But I think I sewed on the extra tape as well. Even if you had to pay someone to stitch it on, stitching would probably be a cheaper option than throwing out some jackets.

Kind regards Trevor

[tigermullet]

Trevor, all of that, including the specs is laid out in AS1512 and the only place to get the information is to get hold of Australian Standards. I think that there is a website on which you can make the appropriate order but you do have to pay.

As previously stated MSQ are aware of the contents of AS1512 but, as I understand it, they cannot breach copyright and actually publish AS1512.

The world really does get madder by the day.

It might be an idea to give them a telephone call.