Water Police unable to identify PFD1

[Kerry]

For the record I support testing of fire extinguishers where practicable. It is not practicable for small extinguishers, as it is cheaper to replace them annually than to service them.

Kerry, would you replace your fire extinguishers every 12 months?

Cheaper to replace them annually then to service them? This is simply not correct and it is misinformation like this that serves no real purpose!

I have a legal requirement to maintain tested and tagged extinguishers (12 monthly) in my vehicle so I'm not real sure where you dug up that info from.

NO it is by far cheaper to get them tested and tagged. Replacement is an issue at the end of the ervicable life of the extinguisher, which in the vcase of small handhelds is 6 years (from memory).

The only alternative is visual inspection which we can all do.

And no doubt we would all decide it would work! Your decision doesn't cover you ar$e in any way shape or form, means jack actually.

For the record I am a practising safety engineer...

You can call yourself what you like, I just tell it the way it actually is and if your a practising safety engineer and don't know that extinguishers can be tagged and tested instead of replacing then maybe your in the wrong job.

Regards, Kerry.

[bay_firey]

Kerry,

If trueblue is refering to the chaepies from chandleries he would be correct about replace rather than service and tag

The word "test" should NOT be used when refering to servicing extinguishers as they ARE NOT "tested" rather they are inspected as per my previous post and then tagged as having been so inspected/serviced

[trueblue]

Most fire extinguishers in recreational boats are not big enough or costly enough to warrant third party tagging.

small ones can only visually inspected, and yes, they can be tagged but that all you are paying for - a look see and a tag.

Testing is hydrotesting, and can only be done on the larger models.

Where you get a very cheap service for test and tag is when you have heaps of them, and a special price is possible. Certainly not the case with everybodies recreational boats.

You are a very cantankerous person...

[seatime]

Someone help me out here please...

I'll be willing to bet that life rafts on larger boats (yes, recreational too) don't have australian standards symbols on them... Maybe I'm wrong as I haven't looked at one in Australia for a long time, but They do have SOLAS approvals.

Can someone with a larger boat check this for me please???

If SOLAS is good enough for life rafts, why not life jackets

Cheers

Mick

SOLAS, the Safety Of Life At Sea Convention (an IMO commitee) has been adopted by Australia, it is written into the Navigation Act. Basically,if it's in SOLAS, it's in Australian maritime standards, e.g. SOLAS approved PFD 1's ( or Coastal) are the highest level of flotation available, also have whistles and/or lights, and compulsory for commercial vessels.

regards
Steve

[Kerry]

Mark,

Cheapies and "safety engineer" aren't used in the same sentence as far as I am concerned.

This gets back to the real question of why aren't all extinguishers at least inspected by a competent person who knows what they are actually looking at/for as simply replacing an extinguisher every 12 months for the sake of it is simply not required.

This "specific" marine requirement is really a backward step from the real issue.

Regards, Kerry.

[trueblue]

Yes, quite right. unfortunately you can get solas approved lifejackets from overseas, that don't state "PFD Type 1".

The issue was that people could be booked with an overseas model of a solas coastal life jacket because it didn't have the correct writing on it.

[Kerry]

Most fire extinguishers in recreational boats are not big enough or costly enough to warrant third party tagging.

small ones can only visually inspected, and yes, they can be tagged but that all you are paying for - a look see and a tag.

Testing is hydrotesting, and can only be done on the larger models.

Where you get a very cheap service for test and tag is when you have heaps of them, and a special price is possible. Certainly not the case with everybodies recreational boats.

You are a very cantankerous person...

I'm just a single individual who has a legislative requirement to have a compliant fire extinguisher. Cost is 9 bucks ($A) each a year to be legal and at the same time the boat extinguishers are also done as then nobody can whinge about anything. This is a requirement and is a lot cheaper then replacing the dam things, period.

As for the size and capability then that another issue and in reality there is simply no pratical fire extinguisher that could handle a 600 litre flare up but this is not the issue here!

As for recreational boats 9 bucks a year isn't a big deal and if it is then time to give boats away.

Reagrds, Kerry.

[bay_firey]

Trueblue

I think you are not quite on the money there If I am correct a "SOLAS" life jacket is actually a higher standard than an australian standard PFD1 and from my reading of the MSQ site SOLAS is accepted as a PFD1 but would not need the wording on it.


ps - this didn't come out quite right but for the life of me I can't get the right words out. I hope you get the gist of it

[trueblue]

Mark,

Cheapies and "safety engineer" aren't used in the same sentence as far as I am concerned.

This gets back to the real question of why aren't all extinguishers at least inspected by a competent person who knows what they are actually looking at/for as simply replacing an extinguisher every 12 months for the sake of it is simply not required.

This "specific" marine requirement is really a backward step from the real issue.

Regards, Kerry.

You're still going off on a tangent. Cheap was referring to the fact that you can get your extinguishers bulk tested once per year at a price that is worthwhile in comparison to changing the extinguisher out...

I don't have any issue if they go to a third party for inspection and tagging... The original discussion was only about what the law currently says...

And if the law changes for test and tag of all extinguishers annually, no problem by me. It will just mean that for very small extinguishers in most recreational boats we will go to buying replacements with expiry dates for each designated period (one year) to avoid the non practicable issues of test and tag for the very small extinguishers. Which is where I'll bet the law is going once the manufacturers get on board with putting expiry dates onto extinguishers.

Please go and look up the word "Practicable" and hold that thought in the context of my comments.

Again, to get the thread back on track, my initial comments that you blew out of proportion were simply to make the point that while there is no proper system in place, the water police must be aware of the gazetted ammendments to the legislation instead of booking people based on the outdated original legislation where it simply could not actually be complied with.

Cheers

Mick

[Kerry]

....And if the law changes for test and tag of all extinguishers annually, no problem by me. It will just mean that for very small extinguishers in most recreational boats we will go to buying replacements with expiry dates for each designated period (one year) to avoid the non practicable issues of test and tag for the very small extinguishers....

BS, stop giving people misinformed and incorrect info.

[Fish Guts]

tigermullet - these laws are enacted to get arrogant stubborn whingening gits like you off the water. as in a previous thread i told u to unhook ur vhf due to ur blatent arrgoance towards vhf licensing and vmr smothering boaties with safety - which is bullshit, and now your on about lifejackets. have you been seriosuly screwed over by the govt, or just a whinging sook ? And as for QPS (clowns) not being able to identify a pfd1 amazes me, as most have master v and some pretty decent experience, i think youd be hard pressed to identify ur ars* from ur mouth by the statements u blurt out...c;mon fair go

[Wear the fox hat]

Trueblue,
Your posts on are leaving us all a bit confused. Seeing as you are a SAFETY ENGINEER, could you please inform us on what the requirements are for fire extinguishers for vessels that operate in calm or rough waters. As for PFD's, clarification on PFD1's & SOLAS & whether they are legal or not would be appreciated. This cr@p has gone for long enough & I'm sure everyone is looking for clarification, not assumption.

WTFH

[trueblue]

Read the links To the gazetted ammendments that I posted.

They make a very clear statement which was the original point I was making...

I'v lost interest in this one

[gawby]

Here we go again, copper bashing.
It would appear that someone is not happy.
As for coppers not being able to identify life jackets or the what,
I can tell you that they would have more credentials than any of you whinging so called seaman on this site who think they know everything.
I live and learn every day and if the law is the law then just abide with it and get on with the job.
If you get knocked off for something, you have done something wrong.
Like has been stated the coppers enfoce the law and the pollies make the laws.
If you don't like the laws bag the law makes, not those who enfoce it who are just doing a job like you.
I got checked by the fisheries not long ago in Morton Bay and i might add that they were very polite and when they saw everything was in order that bid us a good day.
Just remember, if you don't like the coppers and next time you in trouble and need one, don't call them. See how you like it then.
Thats my two bobs worth and i don't care what you think.
Graeme

[tigermullet]

Well well, Fishguts I don't really care what you tell me to do nor can I imagine why you think that I would take any notice of an order from you especially when expressed as, "I told you to..." Are you some sort of supreme being that can order around anyone you like?

Point 1 I do not and never have had VHF so it's a bit hard to unhook it.

Point 2 It is not arrogance just outrage that some one should have suggested that in order to get a Recreational Boat licence that we should be required to have VHF. I do want to keep my boat licence but do not wish to have to install a VHF radio nor re-qualify on procedures and practices in order to keep it.

Point 3 The life jacket thing is real - My very good life jackets, which would exceed the standards now set, are obsolete because they do not have a proper label or printing on them. If you think that labelling adds to safety then go for it and depend upon them.

Point 4 There is nothing wrong with trying to be self reliant and prepared - not wanting (but worse, being forced) to accept a level of safety that seems to specify that some of us cannot look after ourselves in very ordinary situations.

Point 5 Should I ever get into a situation that is unsafe it is my wish that no one risk their safety for me.

Point 6 I have not been seriously screwed over by the Government - in fact I have done very well from salary, benefits etc., and realize that we reside in a wonderful country and a great part of that is because we have had responsible and fair governance.

Point 7 I cannot consider myself a 'whinging sook' In most activities I do not want help, have never called for it and never will. However, I realize that we all have different needs and responsibilities. There are different levels of tolerable risk and circumstances can occasionally overwhelm. I do not have any argument with others making their own arrangements to be comfortable in acceptance of risk and providing for their own safety in whatever manner they see fit. But I cannot see why my choices should be defined by authority if no harm can come to other than myself as a result of those choices.

Why do you have a problem with self reliance and freedom of choice?

Perhaps you are projecting your own feelings of insecurity.