29.9KG BARRA,and 30.3KG BARRA- Lake Awoonga

[Mad_Barry]

As said Awonga, it's not my cup of tea to cut their throat, much prefer to see them swim away, but I can see both sides of the argument.

I'd like to see a seperation of the emotional aspects and the scientific/factual reasoning of take or not.


Do you know of any other recent articles written on the subject ? There must be some pretty good up to date stats & info out there from the DPI electro fishing surveys & stocking associations, if so I'd be interested in reading them. (I'm basically refering to info I've read in articles by the likes of John Mondorra & co of the Tinnaroo experience).

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

No emotion in this,,,,,,,
Yes, I am pretty sure that Awoonga was designed as a 'put and take fishery'! But what I am having difficulty accepting is the issue of the general public being advised to 'remove the larger fish from the fishery', without the supportive evidence and any hard core facts that relate/or are evident in Lake Awoonga. Awoonga has been stocked for almost 10 years, and the strongest year class from any of their releases is those fish approximately 6yrs old and around 18 to 22kg. They are the most dominant, common sized barra caught in Awoonga simply because they are the most successful year class of barra that were released. Now, approx 4 yrs on from the release of those fish, we are faced with a fishery with 4 new year classes of much smaller barramundi, varying in size from say 1 kg onwards with a strong showing around the 3 to 5 kg mark. Any given afternoon on Awoonga can see 10 or 12 of those smaller barra caught in similar areas to where we find the larger fish. The upcoming population of these smaller barra in Awoonga is very likely to be some of the better stocking results from any previous releases. There is no lack of smaller fish.
Awoonga has a mass surface area and a huge density and variety of available food sources for barra to feed upon. So why would it be that we have a mass availability of 1 to 6 kg barra in a fishery that is dominated by 20 kg fish?!?!?!!??! There is no supportive evidence at Awoonga of the larger fish being detrimental to the fishery. I noted in an above post that releasing bigger fingerlings in Tinaroo(250-300mm fish) has resulted in many fish now being caught from that lake. To barra 6kg and above barramundi, 250-300mm of almost any fish species is a great size for a snack. Is it possible that there may be other reasons why stockings of smaller fingerlings in Tinaroo wasn't successful? So why is it the Faust and Awoonga have filled the gap(from an above post) if predation from larger barra in the likes of Tinaroo has caused so much controversy?!?,,or is there more to look into.?? Every impoundment differs in its make up, and its suitability for stocking, and therefore results and success will vary between accordingly between locations.
The bigger a barra grows, the less likely he/she is interested in eating a so called 'fingerling'! So, if it is the fingerlings we are worried about, it is more likely the smaller barra that will do harm to new releases. Now comes this point that i have aired before-
A 20 plus kg barra is capable of eating a 5 kg barra, and a 5 kg barra is capable of eating a 1 kg barra, and that 1 kg barra is very likely to be capable of eating a 100mm fingerling and that 100mm fingerling is capable of eating a newly stocked 50mm fingerling,,,,,so,,,,AT WHAT POINT DO WE ACTUALLY DEFEAT THE PURPOSE OF STOCKING if we start removing barra that are supposed to be eating smaller barra?!!?!?!?!
And if there is a problem with larger barra being detrimental to the fishery, it is not going to be helped considerably by the removal of such a small percentage of larger predatory fish. If we remove the 20 kg barra because they eat the 5 kg barra, do we remove the 5 kg because they eat the 1 kg barra , and do we remove the 1 kg barra because they eat the fingerlings???
Overall, in a fishery that is stocked annually, there is always going to be issues relating to predation to a small degree, and POSSIBLY to a larger degree once an impoundment reaches saturation point of predatory fish to bait fish. If further drought sees water levels drop to critical points, it may result in a change in what we envisage at present.
Hours and hours have been spent to create such an incredible fishery, that it seems kind of odd to see the results of those efforts laying on the bank. Any form of fish that is utilised in proper fashion is acceptable in most people's eyes, considering that a 'fish of a lifetime' is what stirs people to drive thousands of kilometres to come in search for.
Feedback appreciated.
Johnny M
Lake Awoonga Barra Fishing Charters

[fishsmith]

Well put Johnny..100% agree....

[Mad_Barry]

A lot of good points there Johnny

Maybe the structure in Faust & Awonga offers more protection to juveniles, hence a better survival rate of smaller fish ?

I'm keen to do a bit more reading on studies taken on the topic to cull or not, if anyone has some articles to point to, it would be much appreciated.

[Cloud_9]

I'm with CQHORNET.
was good to meet you by the way.
i couldn't beleave the waste. all the winning fish destined for thr OTTO BIN.
one guy i spoke to brought in a 20+kg fis only to see it hung by the jaw and start to bleed at the wiegh in. but died after a short time in the tank.
heres the winning FROZEN fish guts and all.
30.3 KG
and 9 years old from the second years fingerlings
Cheers Cloud 9

[Cloud_9]

just to add to johnnies piece.
the fish in Awoonga are stocked at 50mm
and their growth rate is 3.5Kg's a year on average.
the food fish in the lake are in imence numbers, Boney bream gar and sea mullet and the good old catties. + the odd small barra.most of the big barra are in the main dam basin and the smaller ones are in the outter area's or so i was told by one of the stocking assosiation guys.
which would stop the little ones getting eatten to some degree.
the figures would suggest that there is a 36kg monster in the dam somewhere?
Cloud 9

[Bros]

Here is a bit of reading if you have the time. As they say the survival rate is depending on a number of factors but it sees to be accepted that the smaller fingerlings have a lower survival rate when large barra are present.

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/far/13291.html

As a footnote I was shown a photo by my cousin in Tville of one of our relationa catching a large barra in Peter Faust dam and I asked what happened to the fish and she said it went to meals on wheels. At least it didn't go to waste

[coraltrout68]

At 50mm I would think that a young Barra would have more than other Barra chasing him.

Catfish and Bony bream would have to eat there fair share.

[Jeremy]

good points all. Thanks for the feedback.

Jeremy

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Both the large and the small barra hold position in the main dam basin at varying locations and depths through out the system. The foreshores and bays and channels hold equal numbers of big to small barra during the same time frames, so there is no natural seperation or artificial barrier that stops the intermingling of small and large fish. Structure in Awoonga is quite sparse when one starts to compare the area of structure to the large expanses of clear and open structurless water. The weed is again starting to take a strong hold after the big water rise from about almost 3 yrs ago. The lake rose approximately 16 to 18 metres in a short time, and very little weed or any other form of aquatic plant was visible, let alone established. Atleast 12 to 18 months passed before any weed banks became obviously noticeable. It has really only been the last 6 months that they have become well and truely rooted(the plants) and especially now, as water levels drop and the water temperature rises, making for thick and choked mats of submersed structure and habitat. In that time frame that lacked a considerable amount of natural weed cover, Awoonga ended up with a strong survival of super successful year classes of barra that are now a major portion of a daily catch. Barra from 3 to 8kg are very common. The growth rates of newly released barra is equal to any other year class in the lake. The overall average condition of barra caught in Awoonga is exceptional to say the least. No 'slim Jims' out there!
The key point I feel at Awoonga is that it is a lake that is still below saturation point of stocked predatory species, due to its mega surface area, and helped immensely by a waterway that has an extensive bio-mass of energy rich bait species. Continued monitoring of fish growth and condition is a fundamental that is essential to helping us understand the health and sustainability of this relatively new fishery.
Johnny M
Lake Awoonga

[fishsmith]

Hopfully fish weren't upgraded(highgraded) out on the water resulting in some of those carcasses floating around....

[rivermanau]

And anyway how edible are they? I had a few weeks at Faust in October, I killed my first large fish
for the trip, having eaten flood plain freshwater barra in Kakadu and thought they were not too bad eating with suitable preparation ( though not as nice as salties). What a waste. We got about 1-2 kg of edible flesh from the fish, the rest was grey and muddy and did not look good. Needless to say we did not kill any more fish for the trip. I am a catch and release fisher 95% of the time, but if I feel like eating a fish my conscience is clear taking one from a stocked fishery. How do fish from other dams rate? Or is this the reason the poor old pensioners ended up eating them?
Robert

[scuttlebutt]

Some good points have been made, but think about why the dams were stocked in the first place. I could be wrong, but I believe it is to encourage people to fish there, thereby boosting the tourist potential and economy of the affected areas.

To the die-hard fisherman yeah it's a bit of a shock to see confronting images of over 50 big barra hanging side by side from their jaws (the recent Tinaroo Bash), but there were thousands of people fishing that comp, and they all had to eat somewhere, stay somewhere, buy tackle somewhere - I don't know the figures but I'm confident it would have been a great boost for the local economy.

I think Joe Average is more likely to take his wallet to these places if he sees hard evidence of many big fish being caught at the same time, rather than the odd photo of a big fish being released. And I think the people who stock the impoundments, and the local businessess would have no problems with it (and in fact seem to encourage it).

As it's been said, these fish were put in there by people, to be caught by people. And they're still putting them in there. To further illustrate a point, how many big barra were there BEFORE they started stocking impoundments?

A fisherman having his five minutes of fame with a whopper stocked barra will get no grief from me.

cheers,

steve

[Reidy]

Hey guys

I belive in the Catch and Release method but theres nothing wrong with taking a size fish for a graze, But the big girls, one taste crap, and theres probably too much fish there for the bbq plate anyway.

Maybe its phsycological but I seem to be more conferdent knowing that that 30 kg fish is back in there swimming around agian.

Cheers Tropical Trout

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

The whole impoundment barra stocking and fishing topic is a relatively new one, so I feel it is an interesting conversation point. I don't think we really know the full effects of stocking a severe apex predator like the barramundi into 'locked' freshwater systems. Mother nature holds the 'key', and we well and truely know how irregular wet seasons can be.
(Scuttlebutt,
The average joe bloe seems more than happy to visit these locations and open his wallet when it comes to food, accomodation, and buying tackle like you say,etc, but without having to see first handed, the fruits of the stocking hanging up for public display. Most barra lakes have a huge following, and as the years pass, new locations will be raved about and tourism will be shared amongst the borders of the state. Promotion of lakes, and their mothering town or city comes naturally by word of mouth, magazines, news papers and television. Most people who visit, already know enough about the potential of the place to draw themselves there. Hence, the reason they are already visiting. The word 'barra' is enough on its own.)

But, i'll oppose what I just said with another point that makes this topic so diverse in its attractions of opinions.
These stocked large barra are potential broodstock fish, but they are not a truely and natural wild stock. Would they ever survive the mass drop over the wall in flood. I personally think not, maybe a small % may live. Considering they are never going to breed in a lake system, I can see why they could have less emphasis placed upon them as being 'big girls' as many call them. At the end of the day, big girls or not, they may as well be barren and in a true sense, they have no form of value as breeding stock if they never leave the lake, or if death is the likely outcome as they fall over the high wall to a solid and thumping death. They are big barra, thats about it, no need for the emotion that is entwined with 'big breeders!'
The words 'BIG BARRA' grab attention of most people, and if a drawcard is ever displayed, its more than likely that a lake with world record sized fish will attract more tourists and anglers than a lake with 1 million 5 kg fish. The tables will turn as time moves on. Emphasis is being placed on Awoonga at present for being number 1 barra fishery in Qld, 10 years on, I guess it might not be!
So, it all comes back, once again to either everybody wanting a sustainable fishery, or as well, a fishery with the infrastructure to attract maximum potential when it comes to econimic values. National records of monster fish well over 50 kg will put a town or a city, even our whole country on the world wide map as a fishing mecca. Not that it isn't already! Nile perch, Black bass, and soon, monster Aussie Barra will become world wide attractions to the interested parties!
Such time and effort and money is placed into stocking programmes, that the produced fish that have survived the time, grow to enormous proportions. People naturally become attached to this creature that has such a charismatic nature, that mental bonds can and do develop between anglers and fish. People become passionate and are drawn by natural instincts to the care for the environment and it's living contents. In many eyes, a barra seems to have more value alive, than dead, more to the reason many dislike seeing a discarded carcass on the bank.
Their eating qualities are very poor, and I guess we could now envisage the situation if they were top notch tucker and 10 times as many were being taken from the system for the dinner table.
A Barra is a fishing icon of Australia, one that will most likely be noted forever.
So many ways to look at these new fisheries, and so many ways that they could be managed.
I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on this topic.
Johnny M