Shimano Reels

[Dan_Muir]

Over the years Shinano has spend millions of dollars on advertising and sponserships - who pays for this - the consumer of course - after all they are not going to absorb the costs themselves are they.

Thats why Shimano reels are grossly overpriced - I am not saying that they don't make a nice reel but from experience (and I do own some shimanos)- however WE ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF! - I have found that other brands - namely Banax,
Okuma, ABU etc produce as good a product(if not better) than shimano. They have come up with marketing terms like Fluid drive, ARB etc to suck us in. Shimano reels are made in Malaysia with some high enders still manufactured in Japan.

Shimano are progressively pricing themselves out of the consumer market. Management at Fishermans world have drastically reduced stocking Shimano reels and are selling other brands which are just as good.

any comments?

[NQCairns]

Hi Dan I look at it a bit different. if a company spends money for a reason like marketing, then price their product to recoup a fair cost, I cannot consider that rip off pricing. I own one shimano baitrunner that I bought 12 years ago it still works allright (drag is crap)for its age. I have not and will not buy another shimano until the price does reflect the product and marketplace. I still have Penns older than the shimano that work like new. Each to their own I guess, they will have to wise up sooner than later and price accordingly or lose market share.nq

[Heath]

Shimano reels are over priced in my opinion. However the reason for their being overpriced in my view is very different. Simply the middle man making a killing. You have distributers here in Australia with exclusive rights of distribution. This means you have no competition, simple! The tackle shops buy off this ditributer or do not buy at all, full stop. Once you have a monopoly in the market place you can charge what you like. 2 good examples of this are Lowrance & Shimano ( there goes my chance of sponsorship ;D ) The problem with Shimano is that they also make a good product. I've got 2 ABU reels sitting in the cupboard that can not handle our normal fishing needs. I've also seen plenty of Okuma reels, being sold after half a season due to them not being able to cope. I own plenty of reels. Most of which are Shimano & what isn't shimano is either Daiwa, Penn or Alvey.

If you want to try & drive prices down, you have to hurt those making the money where it hurts & that is in the hip pocket.

[kingmad]

As far as shimano goes I find that some products hold a league of their own. For example the only Shimanos I own are some of the TLD series. I find that they are at the right price and are unmatched for a lower cost game fishing reel. For the higher end I use Penn International and I think that they are good valu for money. I tend not to get too lost into mambo jumbo when it comes to smaller reels which I think is where they start ripping people off. Those little "bream killer" reels with special everthing on them. I think a lot of that is ****. I havent fished for bream that much but really can't see the work of one stuff the internal workings of a reel unless it was really *** to begin with.
Don't forget about the mark ups the shops put up on all the famous gear just because it is easier to sell...........

[lordy]

Part of the reason some of the small reels seem so expensive relative to their size is because they require close to the same amount of work to make a big reel. The materials cost isn't likely to be more than a few dollars difference. Are they worth it, probably not for bream. Just so long as they don't rust, don't break when you drop them, don't have cheap bearings, have a reasonable drag and good line laying action that is all you need.

I've seen some $40-50 dollars 8 ball bearing flashy gold reels rusting, and that was before they were even sold! The gold coloured line roller looked great, just didn't roll properly. But they felt pretty decent to play with, looks can be deceiving.

[banshee]

With regard to the price of Shimano reels Heath has hit the nail on the head.I know for a fact that if my local tackle shop wants to remain competitive with the big discounter in the area they make very little out of them,If they try to negotiate a better deal they are simply told to order more for a discount.I personaly think they are a cut above the rest in their better quality stuff,their cheap stuff in my opinion is a waste of money.I tend to agree and disagree with Dan,a fully engineered (gears cut not cast) Banax with stainless every thing sells for a lot less than it's equivelant in Shimano but I saw one sit in the local tackle shop for over a year,no amount of discounting could find this reel a home(it now lives with the boss),pity,it was a great reel.Okuma represent good value but again I agree with Heath they are just short of the mark.Dan,I'm sorry,but I wouldn't give an ABU eggbeater to my worst enemy,when they discontinue the line parts become hard or impossible to get.Daiwa seems to me to be a company that has not sold it self out,only a couple of entry level reels,a lot of mid range choice and few of your better reels.Penn reels to me are a bit of a catch 22 on the one hand you have a very robust practicle reel,all up a good product,on the other hand you have a distributor that is trying it's hardest to send the company to the wall,an example,I knew of two seperate people,one waited eight months and had four spools sent to the dealer before the right spool landed(even though the correct part no. was supplied)the other bloke wasn't tortured,he just didn't get his for four months,added to this a bearing for a GTi 320 will set you back upwards of forty bucks.....want a spare spool for that Powerspin 7000 you just bought for eighty five bucks?that will cost you seventy three thanks.Bloody good reels but I can't afford to have one.

[Dan_Muir]

Yeah everybody looks at things differently and we probably really don't know who is getting the biggest slice of the cake
but it would be a pity if it got to the stage where only rich people (not me) could'nt afford to buy a good quality shimano

I agree that the ABU mincers are s---t but they are making some really good baitcasting reels ie Torno and Eon.

Anyway guess the consumer will ultimately dictate which direction the Shimano manufactuers, wholesalers and retailers
take.

[raefpud]

Good points , I would like to add that warranty and parts availability are one of the added extra bonuses you get when you buy shimano (and not to forget daiwa, in my opinion is up there with quality like shimano) to get a life time warranty, or 10 year warranty is piece of mind to me and worth paying the extra few parts. Shimano and daiwa have been making fishing gear for many many years, so you think they would know what they are doing. At my time working in a tackle shop, I had 10 times as many cheaper brands like jarvis walker, abu, okuma and tica etc, with problems (including design faults) come back to the shop than I did with shimano and Daiwa.
I do honestly believe that you do get what you pay for with fishing gear - that is if you pay a little more then you get a better product, and I have had nothing to indicate a contradiction to this.
Daiwa and shimano will manufacture spare parts for products of theirs for at least five years after the product has been discontinued, and quite often will stock parts for a lot longer than that.
And yes, there is a monopoly in the industry, and unfortunately we are limited to the suppliers, and yes, there are a heap of monkeys out there that cant seem to send us the right part when we need it which does cause problem and causes us to lose faith in a company of product.
I think you can justify spending the extra dollars on a superior product if you are getting plenty of use out of it - its no use having a calais baitcaster if all you are doing is soaking an old prawn once every couple of months.

I'd love to own and drive a porsche, but i'm forced to own and drive an old ford laser ???
I think if you could afford the superior product, and money wasnt such an issue as putting food on the table, you'd buy it.

[whiteman]

Like all successful companies, Shimano sells its products for the price the public is willing to pay and make sure they retain or grow their market share. You don't need a degree in business to work this out. And they are obviously critically aware of the power of marketing as they look after their dealers with high margins and promotions.

If consumers don't like this, they can buy something else. However, their products are good and they know it!

[banshee]

Whiteman,define dealers,do you mean the importer or the retail outlet?

[agnes_jack]

Whiteman
The retail dealers definatly do not get high margins on the Shimano range!

Regards, Tony ???

[peterbo3]

I have a Shimano Stradic 6000 with 10 year warranty. That is pretty good. I also own ABU, Daiwa & Penn. You have to shop around for value but my ABUs are 20+years old & are still in top nick because I actually maintain them.
It is a bit rough to bag some reels on reputation or price as it all comes down to how you look after the gear.
Buy a $200000 BMW & forget about oil changes & watch that engine self destruct.
Some reels are overpriced but if the quality is there you forget about how much you paid three years down the track but the memory of cheap & nasty gear never goes away. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

[Volvo]

peterbo3, Well [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]said
Cheers

[whiteman]

Sorry about the assumption on high dealer margins for Shimano reels. I made this mistake based on the fact that places like ####### can drop the price of Shimano reels by over 30% during their sales and these prices be matched and even bettered by local tackle shops. Must be the importers being benevolent.

[agnes_jack]

Whiteman
Shimano sometimes have special buys on some items or on rod reel combos, these special buys are available to the marts and to the tackle stores. The only way those marts could reduce by 30% is by advertising at the highest price they normally sell those items for, and then reducing the price to what they should be selling those 'specials' for. Makes it sound like a fantastic reduction. The tackle store can then reduce his margin on the specials, to come up matching or less than the marts prices.
The normal dealer margins are not that great, but like myself, many tackle stores would rather make f#$%all on a sale than let the mart get it.
I hope I have explained that clearly enough?
bit confusing perhaps?

Regards, Tony ;)

[Dale_Tan]

Guys,

If you all think that you''re getting ripped off by manufacturers with conventional tackle, wait until you get into flyfishing.

[Dan_Muir]

I think you gentlemen will find that when ####### have one of their super dupa sales - there is hardly any shimano gear reduced - mostly Okuma, Tica and the likes so logic tells me they do not have a high mark up on Shimano

Anyway I went to Fishing world today and brought myself a new
SHIMANO STRADIC - made in good old Japan not Malaysia where their low end reels are made. but I still reckon they are overpriced.

[whiteman]

Agnes_Jack, ####### held the price of TLD20s at $299 for some months while I was looking and they advertised this as a "special price". The other shops that had these were closer to $350. Web shopping could get them at $289 + freight. Then along comes the Townsville Fishing Show and ####### drop them to $245, just like they did last year.

If you're a tackle retailer, it's hard to argue with you as you have the inside story. However, to us buyers, it sure looks like there are good margins for a lot of the year!

[agnes_jack]

Whiteman
That $245 price has got to be a special put out by Shimano as a promotion for the tackle show. Normally a tackle store could not buy a TLD20 for anywhere near that price, let alone make any profit on it.

Regards, Tony

[Duncs]

Whiteman,

You need to take into account that every company has a different purchasing structure. Most companies offer discounts based on either how quickly you pay for the goods or how much you buy. The large chain store that buys 100 TLDs gets a very different price to the independent shop that buys 2 or 3.

The small independent retailer generally sells stuff like TLDs to loyal customers who will pay the extra based on the quality of advice and after sales support they receive, compared to the large chains. Try asking a teenager working at the local 'mart how to tie a bimini twist, where they're biting, or see if they'll spool up that new TLD for you. I doubt many either would or could.

Before shelling out your hard earned, its worth thinking about what you really get for your money.

As the owner of a small tackle shop, some days I feel like I am an unpaid staff member for the local 'mart. I do the work, they get the sale. However, I also have a great bunch of guys (and girls), who support my shop, love their fishing and make the whole thing worthwhile. More than worthwhile actually, this is the best job I've ever had... just wish I could sell a few more of those good reels ;D ;D
I'll just climb down from my soapbox now!


Cheers

Duncan

[Lucky_Phill]

Pulled the Penn8500 apart the other day for the first time in 12 years. Wiped it out, greased it and put it back together. I'll probably " service " it again in the year 2016. ;)

Peterbo is on the money as is most of you including Dunc in particular. The price you pay at the small shop always includes " service & advice ". Pay $50 more for a reel at the little shop, get the advice and service. Pay less at the ' mart ' and that big fish you had on but lost, due to not quite knowing the correct rig/ knot/ tension/technic that the little guy would have given you, brings into focus the REAL cost of the reel/ rod etc.

For pure ' principle' I never shop at a 'mart'.

I try to support my local business's wherever I can.

Trust me, you start shopping at the local, and soon enough, you 'll be collecting the discounts and really good service.

Phill

[agnes_jack]

Well put Phil!
Duncs- What tackle store do you own? ???

Regards, Tony

[Duncs]

Tony,

Fish Head is in Redland Bay on the southern side of Brisbane, We've been here for about 7 months now. Took over what was a corner bait shop, now building it up into more of a serious tackle store, specialising in lure and fly.

Regards

Duncan

Fish Head
Cnr Broadwater Tce and Stradbroke St
Redland Bay QLD
07 3206 7999

[agnes_jack]

Gday Duncs
Its quite a task turning a small one into a decent one. Did the same thing up here, took on a very small, understocked shop.
Been in it for 3.5 years, still working on building it up, nearly there now though!

Regards, Tony

[Strewth]

In my humble opinion, it is the practice of appointing sole Australian distributors here that causes much of our tackle (and boats and motors and sounders and...) to be drastically overpriced. The tackle shops are often the meat in the sandwich. The consumer now has a choice though, and that is to order overseas online. This can yield huge savings on high end tackle (and electronics), even allowing for taxes and shipping, and will eventually kill off greedy distibutors who currently cream off huge markups from merely being a middleman. I try to support my local shop whenever I can, but refuse to pay out a 50-100% markup for high end reels etc. that mostly ends up in the pockets of parasites.

Cheers

Strewth

[BlitzBaga]

Yes guys, I believe they might be over priced, but they seem to be reliable and last a lifetime. It's like anything, you get what you pay for.
I wouldn't trade my Calcutta 100 and 200 for anything, they only thing they needed was decent drag washers, pig skin seems to work well for me.

Cheers
Murray

[whiteman]

Duncs and Agnes, we've had the mart vs corner store discussion in other threads recently. I too run a business and get my share of tyre kickers so just like you guys, I now specialise in a market segment that supports better margins and is far less competitive. This is simply good business sense.

People like me shop around for the best price on things like reels. But everything else from rods to bait to lures to clips to line, I buy from whichever shop takes my fancy at that time - and is by far the bulk of my annual fishing spend. And I'm sure margins on a lot of this stuff are OK. Just for the record, I get good service at #######, as I do at the local tackle shops.

[Cheech]

Tony and Duncs...

What you guys need is a small tackle shop co-op. Not for everything as it would probably be too big to manage and defeat the purpose, but just for the big ticket items of rods, reels, lures and whatever else is easily transported that you sell that if you had better buying power you would get bulk discounts.

Not meaning that you should take the marts head on, but at least you could improve your margins a bit, and then be able to match them from time to time without having to do it at cost.

2 members is a start, and then contact a few other small shops in between northern NSW and up your way Tony. You probably already have contacts at other shops so they already know you. Perhaps if you had members that are in different areas so not in direct competition with each other. That way you will not loose your competitive advantage of being a co-op member.

Keep it as big or as small as you are comfortable with.

Actually, probably don't have to just be in the same area unless freight costs negate any bulk discounts.

Could be as easy as puting your shopping lists together each week/month, or whenever you guys normally do your main ordering of the expensive items, and ordering as one. I don't know how frequently you place orders, but would imagine it would not be every day and you would stock up as best as the budget allows.

Who knows,,, could be an opening for one of you to run as a separate business and be your own distributor if there are enough others interested in getting their supplies cheaper. The reason I mention this bit is that I was at the boat ramp on the weekend and it occured to me that bait and tackle shops have busy periods and then times where nothing is happening, so there may be potential to run some other suitable offshoot business to better use the quiet time. Just a thought.

So,,,,, what do you think? Interesting idea, or a stupid idea as I don't know the in's and out's of your purchasing.

If I had the time and inclination I would do a feasability study myself.

A co-op could also be an easy way to unload excess items to another member if you had stock that you did not want or overpurchased and another member was after that same stock. I imagine if you could pass the goods on at the current co-op going rate (plus foot the freight bill), and they could pick it up at the co-op going rate, then everyone would be happy and not have unwanted stock.

You just need a way to be able to talk to each other.

I know this is a bit left field, so be easy on me if you shoot it down.

Cheech

[raefpud]

I wouldnt buy from the marts, purely for the fact that the spotty 16 year old kid that just tried to sell me a pair of shoes and my gf an ab-trimmer, is now gonna try to sell me a specialised fishing rod, so what the hell would he really know about fishing. Only a tackle shop can really offer specialist advice when buying tackle.

[lures]

I know for a fact that ####### sell below cost on some of there specials,fishing is not there main selling piont they are a sports store.Dad wants fishing gear the kids want runners.$245 for tld loss 40 bucks kids by 2 pairs of 120 dollar nike at 220% mark up figures still look good at end of sale.
Woolies do the same 10 dollars 24 coke cans loss around 10 dollars buy your weekly grocerys and they still look good.
I used to own a tackle store so have been down the you buy better than us track yes they do on some things but not on most.I was in there one day and the spotty faced 16 y o left an invioce on the counter from a well known lure importer, prices were same as i paid.One lure was onshelf there for $ 9 on myshelf for $14.95 they paid 8.50 so did i but i didnt have huge runner and clothing selection to counter balance the loss
regards lures

[Doomy]

Actually it depends on where your ####### is.

The one on Nicklin Way Sunshine Coast has a pretty switched on guy. I've had some decent coversations with him.

Thats all he looks after is the fishing gear and I guess being where it is they sell a fair bit.

[banshee]

Shimano.........yeh their bastards allright,they made me buy another reel off them today.

[jazzy_g]

i got a shimno 2000 its good for eastrey with 1 kg line but the drag is realy crap any it has lasted a while its allright but to expensive