Dropshot rig - knot breaking

[SMB]

I tried a dropshot rig on the weekend, and had some success with it, however I did have a couple of problems as well. The guide I read reccomended to use a palomer knot to attach the hooks, it then suggested once you had completed the knot, to pass the tag end back through the eye of the hook to make the hook stand out from the line more.

I did this as suggested and caught a few fish, however on one occasion I got a very good hit, and upon reeling it in, the knot holding the hook broke and I lost the fish. Needless to say I was less then impressed. I was wondering who has experience with this type of rig and can give an opinion ? I have used the palamer knot hundreds of times before (on your more typical running sinker rig) and have caught decent fish on it with no problems.

I'm wondering whether it's the last passing of the tag end back through the eyelet that caused it to break? Maybe rubbing on the knot or something? Anyway just looking for some opinions thanks guys.

[Tony_N]

mmm - should still be a strong knot if I correctly read what you say . could you have been bitten off by something like a tailor?

Tony

[SMB]

Yeah that's what I thought (in regards to knot strength), it could've been bit off but by the looks of the line when I got it back it really looked like the knot had come undone. Strange because like I said never had a problem with it before, who knows maybe I stuffed something up when tying that knot, but having said that it's not exactly one of the harder knots to tie...thanks for the reply.

[Tony_N]

Just a sec...... if the dropshot is done with a palomar (ie with tag going down to the sinker) then the knot really can't "come undone". Do you mean that it looked as though it had broken rather than been chewed? - Bit hard to tell the difference I reckon. Or am I reading what you are saying all wrong? Sometimes a bit hard without the graphics :)

I've been toying with the palomar in a dropshot sort of way by tying swivels on to leader material to make a paternoster rig and running from each swivel a single flurocarbon line to hold the hook. As opposed to a hook (ie the way i think you are using it) the swivel sits at 90degrees to the main line. Much stronger than the standard dropper rig.

Tony

[last_cast]

SMB,

I had a near identical experience trying to dropshot with a palomar knot holding the hook. Decent hit and bang the knot busted. This was using Berkley Vanish. So I changed to using a Dropper Loop (in Geoff Wilson's book and shown on the web page below):

http://www.fishingcairns.com.au/page6-1.html

This seems to work much better and I have caught a few decent fish with this. The strength of this knot is still not as good as a good terminal tackle knot for vanish (eg trilene knot) but seems to be decent. Breaks at about 11lb for 14lb vanish (the best knot strength I can get with my 14lb vanish is 12lb, not very impressed with the stuff). Tested the Palomar and it broke at a very low strain, about 7lb from memory. Perhaps I am doing something wrong with the palomar but I get decent knot strength out of it with braid. There are plenty of other knots so I just do not use the palomar for Vanish. Another dropper loop type knot I have seen is on the web site below:

http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/fishingknots/plat_fishing_knots.html

Have not tried, but claims very good strength. Hope this helps.

Cheers

Last_Cast

[Tony_N]

Last_Cast

I've done quite a lot of knot testing lately on both of those dropper loops that you showed the links to. Tested because i lost a couple of big fish to breaking dropper loops that seemed to break too early - and did!!) In my testing, a properly tied palomar demonstrates about 2x the breaking strength of both of them. I can't get the 90 odd % that they claim for the Kiwi dropper (more like 50%)

Its not hard to set up some tests with a set of scales and I recommend it. I've certainly been surprised by some of the results.

Tony

[SMB]

Thanks for the reply guys...

Tony N - yeah I thought that as well in regards to the knot "not" being able to come undone, so it's a bit strange, it looked to me like it was the knot that came undone because when I got my line back the last few mm's of line was at about 60 degrees to the rest of the line, which usually (to me) indicates a break in the knot. I didn't have any other problems with the knot for the rest of my session or the next day, but I didn't get a hit that strong again. I'm not sure, maybe it was bitten, was just curious for others opinions so cheers.

last_cast - thanks mate, I have tried the dropper loop as well, but from reccomendations from this board I changed over to palomer for increased knot strength, I'll keep giving them both a go.

[al-straddie]

Hi all,

I've always used a figure 8 knot for dropper loops, and only seem to loose the bottom hook/sinker when I get a double hook-up(but not always). It's quick and easy to tie.

Has anyone tested this knot strength? I am curious to know if there's a better way.

cheers..... 8-)

[Tony_N]

Hey al-straddie

I haven't tested the figure of 8 knot - but if he has any credibility left for you to take any notice, Mr Hunt says the dropper knot is stronger than the fig 8.
http://www.rexhunt.com.au/pages/fishingtipsknots.

For mine, if thats true, then the fig 8 is an absolute waste of time

One knot that is worth some experimentation for droppers is (what I think is called) the double or triple loop knot. To tie it, simply double the line and tie a single overhand knot in it like you would for a palomar, then feed the loop through the hole one or two more times and pull tight. this is a very strong knot when pulled from the loop. Haven't tested it when pulled from the main and tag ends. So far I'm happy with the palomar/ swivel option previously mentioned.

Tony

[killitfillit]

let me tell you guys drop shotting is great and the best knot ever is a uni to uni either side of the hook eye locking it between them you just need to match the size of the line and the number of wraps in the uni to the size of the eye of the hook.eg:6 pound vanish with 8 wraps and #1 gamakatsu dropshots.

[al-straddie]

Thanks Tony, ;)

I might do a bit of research and see what I come up with.

I've used the fig 8 as it's not really a knot, but a twist. I not real keen on all those knots for a double droper(swivel rig), if each one(knot) where to loose (for eg.) 10% main line strength :-/

When I only use one loop I never have problems, but always get greedy and go for two. :D

Thanks heaps for the input ;) ;) :) :)

Cheers..... 8-)

[Tony_N]

al - you reckon you're greedy - I use three droppers!! I always like to think that if I get one bait stolen, there's another 2 out there working for me. One day I caught 3 v.large flathead at once - Its an interesting exercise trying to net three big directionally-challenged flathead at once - particularly when they are about 1.5 metres from #1 to #3 fish. lately I have been using a SP on the top hook. The Jury is still out on that one.

cheers

Tony

[last_cast]

Tony,

Not sure what I was doing with my palomar knots, but I tested again after your reply and got very good knot strength (12lb for 14lb vanish, equal best with any other knot I have tried on this stuff). I have a feeling I may not have gathered my loops properly and let one sit against the end of the hook's eye. So I will try the palomar kno again in the furture. I still like the idea of a loop to give the hook some freedom of movement. Tested the Kiwi loop and got very variable results from 6lb to 11lb breaking strain. Not sure what I was doing to cause this but I certainly would not use it ahead of a dropper loop where I consistently get 10-11lb braking strain. I also tried an "End Loop":

http://www.thaifishingguide.com/fishtechequip/techniques/knots/end_loop.html

This was an excellent knot with a consistent 12lb breaking strain. So the equal of the palomar for strength but with the loop for hook movement. I think this is the way I wil go in the future if I want a loop in my line.

KilliFillit,

That is a great suggestion. Will have to give it a go.

Cheers

[al-straddie]

Its an interesting exercise trying to net three big directionally-challenged flathead at once

LMAO ;D ;D ;D

Went outside yesterday and drop-shot my first Deep Sea SP. Result: 1 undersize pearly.....sounds bad till you find out it was the only fish I caught all day. :'( :'(. Jury might be out on SP's but I'll keep having a go.

cheers...... 8-)