Tekota 500

[Bushbasher]

I'm thinking of investing in a Tekota 500 as an all rounder general purpose overhead to slot in between my Abu 7200 running 20lb fireline and Okuma Catalina 45 with 50lb Finns. I'd like to know firstly if anyone has any experience with them and if so are they castable to any degree as I need it to be able to lob a bait at least 40m.

Cheers
Bushbasher

[T-roy]

Hey mate
I own a Tekota 600 and i was casting it a fair distance with a laser and it was fairley easy

T-roy

[Tony_N]

g'day Bushbasher

I'm aware that you know a lot about reels and have followed your posts with interest. So I'm wondering whether you really mean the 500? I'm pretty sure the recommended line for the 500 is 6kg, for the 600 its 8kg and for the 700/800 its 15kg.

With deference to your knowledge of such things, I'd suggest that to fit in the slot that you talk about in your post, you might be better to be checking out the 700. But its a fairly heavy reel at 845 grams.

This might be useless information, but FWIW

Tony

[Bushbasher]

G'day Tony, having checked out the whole Tekota series I found that the 500 & 600 both have a respectable 18lb of drag and the 700 & 800 a healthy 24lb of drag so for where I want it to slot in at about the 30lb mark it should do it easily. The only questions in my mind are line capacity and castability. Line capacity shouldn't be a problem as the 500 should hold well over 300m of braid and at about 430g give or take and I wouldn't want it any heavier. So it comes down to castability and durability so any opinions on either will be most appreciated.

Cheers
Bushbasher

[Tony_N]

Bushbasher

:) I should have known you would have it sorted. I was only going on the stated line capacity of the reels by the manufacturer. I always assume that when they state a line capacity of a particular bs line that this is the recommended maximum. If you can wind the 500 up to 18lb of stike drag, then as you say, it more than covers your needs.

I'll have to have another look at these myself. I've just wound up my TLD25 to 6.5 kg strike (9.5 sunset) to accommodate some 65 lb braid. It would be nice to have a level wind (and a lighter smaller reel) for the braid though.

cheers

Tony

[Bushbasher]

Hi Tony, that 18 & 24lb is max drag so I guess that's "sunset" as you put it.

You say sunset on your TLD is 9.5kg; that surprises me cos I thought all lever drags locked up when you push the lever all the way over. It was my understanding that the term "sunset" came about in game fishing circles because at sunset when you had to go back in to port you needed to end the fight so you locked up the reel and either dragged the fish to the boat or more likely snapped off.

Now that I think about it , if "sunset " is max drag on any given reel and not lockup then your 9.5kg would be your reels rating of 25lb so on that same theory, the Tekotas' rating would be 16lb as stated by it's published line capacity 16/285yds........ but then that doesn't work either cos the 7&800 both have published line capacities to 40lb and the drag is only rated to 24lb, [smiley=confused.gif], so I guess that theory doesn't work either, [smiley=huh.gif],hmmmmm. Are you sure your TLD doesn't lock up with the lever pushed right over? If it doesn't then by your own theory 65lb a bit OTT for the TLD25 as 9.5kg of drag isn't going to cut it if you ever need to break off for any reason. In fact I'd imagine 65lb is probably a bit much for even a Tekota 800 unless you're going to run a lighter leader. As we all know, your line is only as strong as it's weakest point which is usually the knot attaching your weakest line to a swivel.
People cringe when I tell them I run 100lb Whiplash on an Abu 9000CL (long story), but I only run a 50lb Penn 10X leader to a 40lb 10X trace. So my weakest point is actually the loop tied in the end of the trace that I hook over the Hawaiian clip at the end of the leader so in effect my breaking strain is under 40lb


Bushbasher

[Tony_N]

BB

This is the way I understood it (but maybe your figures put what I thought into serious dispute):

A reel is given a rating by the manufacturer : say 300 yards of 30 lb line. I'd expect they would be assuming the working drag (or "strike"drag on a LD ) to be approximately 1/3 of that or 10lb. To be working on the maximum drag of a reel, I figure would be putting too much strain on the drag washers and cause them to wear very quickly. My TLD does turn over at sunset at 9.5 kg rather than lock up. However, I will be hesitant to use it - but intend to if these pesky BIG jewfish keep running and breaking me off in what I now believe to be a cave where they live in numbers. I can boat a 11.5 kg jew in a pretty much skulldrag fight on 4kg of drag. The bigger ones cut me off (on the reef/cave) if I try to force them around. If I let them run they run into the cave and cut me off. So I now have 6.5 graduating to 9.5 - I'll keep increasing until I stop them and turn their heads and then back off again.

I think the same sort of rating works for rods. I reckon most 15kg rods would break if you put 15kg of drag on them. My 10-15 uglystik bends over pretty sharply when line is going off the 4ks of drag. I've had to go to a 15-24 stroker to handle the 9.5. I can't imagine what 24kg of drag would do to the rod even if I was that strong.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of that little lot

cheers

Tony

[Bushbasher]

Tony,

Hmmmm, interesting. I don't know what or how the manufacturers work out rod ratings, personally I think they all use a different formula but in general I reacon they work on the line weight that will best suit the rods action so where the curve of the rod under load is in it's "sweet spot" as it were. Outside of the stated range and although the rod will still work it won't have the right "feel" under load and won't put as much hurt on the fish. Same applies to cast weights, you can toss a heavier or lighter weight than is recommended but you won't get the same distance on the cast as you would if you were in the sweet spot weight wise. But I've always been of the opinion that a rod rated to x lb should be able to cope with and break x lb line before the rod breaks. In other words, a rod rated to 3kg should break 6lb line and a rod rated to 24kg should be able to break 50lb line before the rod snaps (unless you high stick it of coarse ::) ) . For example, I have a 1 pce Wilson 12' custom rod called "The Beast" that I use out at Millers hole that's rated 10-20kg. On it I run a Seamartin with 50lb mono just to cope with winching the big sambos up the cliff (5kg+) and one day for a laugh I tossed a pillie in front of a big black smoothy that was going by, from the top of the cliff, just to see what would happen. It would have had a wing span of at least 8' so I locked the drag and just leaned back. The rod loaded up all the way back to the real seat :o (only time it's ever happened) before this thing even blinked. Then it flicked the ends of it's wing tips and "PING" the line snapped and put me on my back( I was already sitting down) No more or less than I expected but the rod didn't even look like breaking. Another example, I run 20lb braid on a 6500C4 on a 6-8kg 802GPM cheap Abu Garcia Muscle Tip rod. I've snapped the 20lb mono leader plenty of times for various reasons and the rod has never looked like breaking. A last example, I bought a Tica 8' "Nibble Tip Extreme" rated 4-8lb. Put on a cheapy Parker 1000 baitrunner with 6lb mono to try it out and snapped the rod on the second fish trying to lift it out of the water. The fish was a salmon of no more than 1.5kg max and the rod broke at the join so it wasn't if I high sticked it, I didn't even get the fish out of the water. So half an hour after I bought it I took it back to the shop and gave it back to the bloke and swapped it for a 7' Wilson Heratige. Went back down the warf and spent the afternoon poling fish out of the water with the 6 lb line no problem. As far as I'm concerned the rod rated to 8lb should not have broken before the 6lb line or before lifting a 4lb fish which tells me that Tica must have used your formula to rate that rod where as the others use my formula. Not that I'm saying Tica are crap cos I also have a Tica surf rod rated 15-40lb which broke 30lb Hercules braid under extreme load one day and the rod was doing a grand job, although it was loaded up nearly to the fore grip. [smiley=devilish.gif]
I recon your 10-15kg Ugly Stik should be able to handle your TLD at sunset as long as you don't high stick, if it can't, go buy a Silstar Crystal Power Tip. They advertise them as the strongest rods in the world that can bend further than any other rod; then try again. ;) ;D ;D ;D

[Tony_N]

BB

I'm out of my depth experience-wise. I've never broken a rod so maybe I don't push them hard enough. I have had the little uglystik bent almost double on a little over 4kg drag and felt that it was on its limit. I have a few rods around the 10kg mark and I can't imagine putting 10kg of drag on them - just a wus I guess.

I find this discussion very interesting - but I fear that I've hijacked your thread a bit, so will butt out a bit so that you can get the answers you need from somebody who knows the reels.

Tony

[Bushbasher]

Tony,

Don't worry about it mate, you seem to be the only one responding on this thread anyway and it was an interesting diversion. Besides, today I've done a bit more research and decided against the Tekota and will go the Charter Special instead. It is a lever drag which means it can generate more drag pressure for a start, that being 22lb at strike and maxing out at 33lb which leaves the Tekotas' 18lb looking a bit sad, plus it is fitted with brake blocks so is designed to be cast as well where the Tekota doesn't and isn't.

So I guess this whole thread just became a moot point .::) ;D

Bushbasher

[Tony_N]

Hey BB, now youre getting into my territory - I can highly recommend the Charter Special. It is just the best little reel around - though I'd never call it a casting reel. In my experience it is not in the league of your ABU's for casting. Remember, we're talking about a lever drag reel here. Though they do promote it as a casting reel. If I need to cast I use a spinning reel, so I'm not an authority, but the best I can do with mine is an awkward sort of lob. Of course I've usually got 6 or 8 ounces of lead on the endof the line as well!! You might be interested in reading a review:

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewshimanocharterspecial.html

The CS has the same drag as the TLD (15 I think) and I fish mine at 4kg with 30 lb fireline. I think you should get a little over 6kg on it (at the strike setting) before you start to lose your freespool. Mine is on a 10-15 kg uglystik and has caught fish to 25 kg (spaniard)with ease. I use it to bottom bash. It is lightweight and absolutely trouble free. As you can see i just love it. The one drawback for me is the slow retrieve if I'm fishing deep water. Anything over 30 fathoms I find is a bit wearying if I'm there all day.

FWIW

Tony

[banshee]

Bushbasher I would be interested in who is claiming the Charter Special is capable of 22 - 33 pound of drag (10 - 15kg),in my opinion 3 - 4kg would see it at max and I would describe them as more of a lobing reel than a casting reel. If you were chasing a reel that can generate a genuine 7 -8kg of drag and was castable I would be looking at a Daiwa Saltist or maybe a Shimano Torium,both of these are star drag reels and will get to that sort of drag without affecting freespool or generating feedback through the handle,niether has a level wind though.

[spinner]

Hi Bushbasher
I think you were on the right track with the Tekota.
I have to agree with Banshee, the Charter Special is no casting reel and to my knowlege, has no brake blocks.
You stated that lever drag reels produce more drag than star drags. If you look at the specialist jig reels like Saltigas and Trinidads which need heavy drag settings, you will find they are all star drag reels.
You may like to look at Penn`s GT series of star drag reels.they have a levelwind and a HT100 CARBON DRAG.
Cheers, Reggy

[Bushbasher]

Hi guys, I got the 22lb at strike and 33lb max and the brake block info straight from the horses mouth here http://www.shimanofish.com.au .Track down the charter Special or put "TR_2000LD" in the product search and look for yourself. The schematic shows a centrefugal brake setup and they claim 22lb at strike with freespool and 33 max with freespool so I guess they've upgraded the reel quite a bit.

Bushbasher

[Tony_N]

I've just tested my Charter Special with a straight pull (ie not using the bend of the rod). I had no idea that I was so close to the top of the potential drag on my reel. The best I could get maintaining freespool was <4.25 kg drag at strike . I operate normally at 4kg.

BB, upgrades or not, I think I'd be asking the dealer to prove the drag potentials of the reel before purchasing if those figures are what you are asking from it. I suspect that there has been a mistake made somewhere. I also suggest that you be careful about your belief in the capacity of the reel to cast 40+ metres.

My best advice: Have a serious look at what Banshee is saying - he knows his stuff!!!

Tony

[spinner]

Bushbasher
My apologies mate. I had no idea that there was a new model of the Charter Special.
By the way, can you tell me what the part number for the centrifugal brake is on that schematic.
Reggy

[banshee]

No arguments on the brake blocks here as they've always had them and you got me on the drag it definately states it on the site,but I will still say that it isn't a casting reel and those drag claims are ludicrous.Why would they only recomend 17 to 20 pound line on a reel that can generate 33 pounds of drag?I honestly think Shimano are loosing the plot due to a massive shift towards Daiwa and are prepared to make claims that maybe aren't entirely correct,I don't doubt that you could screw the drag up to a point of lock up,but I believe the bind up would make the reel a bitch to use and probably leed to a premature failure,I've seen two TLD 25's screwed up to about 8 to 9kg of drag and used for jigging after about four trips they were very sad.Don't get me wrong,the Charter Special is a great reel, I have one it it is my most used reel but keep in mind they are a tolling reel that lend them selves to bottom bashing very well, but I would not be getting one if I was chasing a medium sized high drag casting reel.To the best of my knowledge they have not seen an upgrade of any sort this year.

[spinner]

Hey this is getting interesting!
I have heard it said, that the Charter Special has the same drag as the TLD 15.
The line recommendations for the TLD15 are up to 300 yds of 30lb., Maybe, the recommendations for the Charter stop at 20lb because it does not hold as much line as the TLD15.
We have to remember that these are lite sportfishing reels, that were intended for long, fast running pelagics, therefore needing plenty of line capacity, rather than high drag settings.
Do you get what I mean?, kinda like the Torium 20 for 20lb and the Torium 30 for 30 lb, even though the only difference is the width of the spool.
sorry, have to put the glass down
Reggy

[Bushbasher]

Well, I bit the bullet and picked up a Charter Special yesterday and I got to say, it's got one hell of a drag on it. I did a test by filling a plastic bucket with over 6l of water and dead lifting it with the reel on a 8' 6-8kg Crystal Power Tip I picked up to go with it. That's near on 15lb ! Well the reel lifted that bucket with ease and that was at strike with a good half turn of adjustment from the point where the freespool goes away so I have no doubt that it'll go close to the 22lb Shimano claim at strike. I didn't bother to go any further cos the rod was running out of stroke and I of leverage standing on the ground as I was. Plus it has more than met the drag power requirement I need it to handle. But I guess Shimano have upgraded the drag ALOT if you guys can only get just over 4kg of drag at strike.
Now I just need to see if I can lob a bait 40-50m and I'll be happy. :)


Bushbasher

[Tony_N]

BB

I'll be really interested in hearing how you go with casting that reel. If you can cast it 40 or 50 you're a better man than I, Gunga Din. That said, I still love my CS, it is my favourite reel and gets more work than any other reel I own. I'm sure you wil love it.

Tony

That review link that I sent you maintains that it is a good casting reel, with the level wind following the lay of the line in freespool, so you may well be able to do it if you have a highly "educated" thumb.

[Bushbasher]

Well, I took the Charter Special out today and gave it a test drive at Millers hole and Salmon Hole and I must say, even on the wrong rod to cast it well, I still managed a 50m cast with 70g and a pillie tail. The Rod is a Silstar Crystal Power Tip CP802GPM 6-8kg with a casting weight of 15-60g but the reel needs 70g minimum, I recon, to spin up the spool enough to get enough loft to get out. Any less and your bait and sinker get dragged into the drink at your feet by the lack of spool speed. On a longer stick designed to cast heavier weights, I've no doubt 100m+ is quite do-able. Pity they don't still make the 1000 as that would have suited me better with the smaller spool and less weight overall but the 2000 will do nicely I think. All in all, I'm very happy with my Charter Special although my one small disappointment is that it requires heavier weight to cast than I'd hoped. I'd love to see an all alloy charter special with a lighter spool though, i recon it'd be top shelf unit.

Bushbasher