Can i use a egg beater on a overhead rod?

[fishingrod]

Hi Guys .... looking for some advice.

I got a new Ugly Stik a few weeks ago. Its a USG-OHD60A which is meant to be a overhead rod (i didnt know what the part number meant at the time)
http://www.shakespeare.com.au/products/model.cfm?divisionID=165&tSite=Sh

Ive got it teamed with a Shimano Baitrunner 4500 egg beater. I choose them myself at the tackle shop and asked if they were a OK match and he said they were fine.

Now, my question is the overhead rod ok with that reel ? Or is the guide on the tip going to be the wrong shape/angle.

thanks
Rod

[DHM77]

Rod,
I think that the rod will probably have a 'backbone', ie it is designed to bend in the opposite direction to which you will be using it. I've got a mate who did the same thing, bought an ugly stick baitcasting rod not realising that it wasn't really suitable for an eggbeater reel. It worked okay, but may be worth considering going back to the store to see if they would swap it for the correct model of rod. I think the set up would perform better with the correct style of rod.
Regards,
Dave

[fishingrod]

Thanks Dave ...... Never though the back bone was really existant on a $65 rod. But good point.

I loaded it up this afternoon on the verandah railing and the bend and line appears to sit nicely.

Im ask the shop later in the week when their "guru" is there .... i happened to buy it on his day off !

thanks
- rod

[fishface]

i would go back asap. bad crack a guy working in a tackle shop pulling a fast one on you.he should know better,OR what you will find is he wont have the eggbeater model in stock. so to get your money anyway ..he feeds you BS so he gets your cash. GOOD LUCK daniel

[bdm56]

Would've thought the biggest problem to be casting distance as the rear guide(s) are larger to help "strip" the coils of line coming off the eggbeater.

Probably will only be a relatively small distance though so not unusable. ;D

[Feral]

I use overheads with eggbeaters, not a problem, as long as the the way you grip the rod is not made uncomfortable by the "trigger" in the grip pointing up.

[fishingrod]

Thanks for the mixed replies guys !

There is no trigger on this one .... its just a med-long straight butt.

Casting distance isnt a issue .... im boat fishing.

I dont think they had anything similar in stock in the egg beater configuration on the day ::)

I will be popping into the shop later in the week ......cheers again

[aussiefool]

don't forget to take your reciepts in with you if you still have them

[HST]

distance if anything will be better as large guides for spinning reels is very old school line of thought,

[cammac]

WOOH HST ur opening a can of worms there mate !!! Post that one as a new topic and see how many guys will agree with u;D


dont know how that one works :o with 3 inch loop trying to go thru a say 3/4 inch Guide instead of lot bigger one thats also located further up the rod than on an overhead setup u saying they put big guides on spinning rods for no reason ??!! ::) and they still do it today !!

Try and exchange ur rod for a spinning setup if for some reason they wont swap it u could live with it ok for your style of fishing - prob doesnt have the backbone in the right place anyway.

Cheers Cam

[HST]

have you built any rod' that hold any distance casting records?
get rid of that 3 inch LOOP ASAP try a 20 as a stripper

all my rods that i fish with use this method .even on my alveys with 6 inch plus loop coming off i use no bigger than a 25 ,
its easy to blame gear as a reson for some thing not working right

PS i also never suffer from line twist with my alveys and never use swivels

have you read or seen the rod manufacturers guide size and placement for 2006/7 for the top shelf Japan market ?

[Noelm]

it is quite usable, i have a rod i take on holidays and take 2 reels for it, a threadline (Spinfisher) and an overhead, (International 30) not realy suited to either reels as I built it myself for traveling, but it works OK for both, only take one rod this way, but have 2 "outfits"

[marlinqld]

Cause you can do it fishingrod.......

I have 3 Jarvis Walker 5ft6in Baitcasters. They came with the obligatory el cheapo bait caster reels, that of course lsted all of 6 casts.

I ended putting Shimano 2500FB Hyperloop reels on them. presto, top little rigs. Work like charms. The little 2500 Hyperloops are top reels, work great for bream, flathead, whiting, and tossing SP's.

So mate, go for it, if it works be damned whatother opinions are.


Mike

[straddie]

I use my my custom "overhead rods" with alveys pretty often with no complaints, so can't see why a spinning reel would be any different.

HST - we must have gone to same fishing school ;D

"distance if anything will be better as large guides for spinning reels is very old school line of thought"
I agree 100%

"PS i also never suffer from line twist with my alveys and never use swivels"
Slight modification on this one, I very rarely ever suffer from line twist with my alveys, and rarely use swivels, never more than one.

[cammac]

I still dont get it HST I reckon yr going against the laws of physics on this one I can only see more friction trying to get a 3 inch loop off an eggbeater or a 5 inch loop on an Alvey thru a 20mm guide rather than say a 40mm guide - u must be putting the stripper a LONG way up the rod definetely not as close to the winch as a NORMAL overhead would be set up which is a lot closer than eggbeater or Alvey configuration.
The less friction the further the cast - one of the reasons an overhead will outcast other reels - remember i said one of the reasons!

Cam

[HST]

No not a long way up ,when building a rod to get the most distance out of it be it for fishing or tournament casting with spinning reels the stripper guide is not where you win or loes distance its where you place the chocker guide that makes the difference normally a 12 or 16 depending on the length of the blank ,the chocker is the first guide to be positioned on the rod, all others guide placements come from this point,

[cammac]

HST would a rod with no guides but just tip cast any good?? Im talking purely for casting purposes .

[bdm56]

Hi HST,

I didn't mean to start a debate here on distance but do you have any personal experience to back up your statements ?

I'm always interested in learning but although my experience with distance casting was many years ago the principles were proven with actual competitions.

At a club level we were involved in beach fishing and experimented with stripping guide sizes, rod length etc and the results were clear. Stripping guide placement and size made a large difference and rod length was the other factor given other things involved such as line, sinker weight, reel type and size were standardized.

Perhaps technology has changed a lot of things but I cant see how these principles could have altered.

BTW - we were pelting 2oz of lead on 13ft rods with 6in alveys and 20lb line. ;D ;D ;D

[HST]

current spinning reel Australian records i have
with leader and .35 dia line

100 grams 229 mts
125 grams 227 mts

level line no leader 15 lbs and 20 lbs for 100 and 112
56 grams 194 mts
75 grams 237 mts
100 grams 234 mts
112 grams with artificial bait 184 mts

all distance were measured and recorded in Cort in comp by third parties and still stand as records today ,HST

[Cheech]

I won an Ian Miller Shimano overhead 8 - 10kg earlier last year. As I rarely use overheads, I decided to try my 4500 btr on it. Works fine. I do not need casting distance and use it for floatlining. Have had a few very large fish on it and there does not seem to be a problem. Now I quite like it. I would not be overly concerned.

[Rod_Bender]

I wouldn't suggest it. anything is always possible, however, as a general rule i would not suggest it. I would have thought your local dealer would know better, after all thats why we use them.... well we thought we did..

What tackle store did you purchase the outfit from?

[fishingrod]

What tackle store did you purchase the outfit from?

It was a well established inderpendent in Northern Sydney. Im not into into slagging anyone beyond that.

Spoke one of their better guys today who had is day of when i originally bought it.
I didnt let on that his shop had sold me the "combo" (unless he reads on here ;))... so just asked him as a general question. He said something along the lines of that he wouldnt choose it as a combo himself .......but it would be fine.

He also mentioned similar to whats been said here about the smaller first guide.
And said that this class of rod doesnt really have a dedicated backbone angle.

Im happy with the combo ... i used it a few times and its been nice to use so far.... so im going to keep using it for now.

The rod was only about $65 and Ive got a Charter Special on a old rod I can put on if need be.

thanks to all .... there has been some inperesting replies here.
Rod

[bdm56]

HST, thanks for the info. I was old school on my thinking here (research has shown me) and thanks for putting your experience forward to correct that. ;D

I used to use the very large stripping guide (1st from the reel) and placed it approx 1/2 way up the rod or perhaps a little less.

For my info and anyone else interested could you give a rough idea of what size rear guide and position on blank for the different types of reels etc ?

[reel_killer]

bdm56,

When I use to build my own rods I would use a 40 stripper guide for large threadlines, 30 for medium threadlines, 25 for large baitcasters, small threadlines, medium overheads and a 20 for small baitcasters and centrepin reels. I have never built a rod for an alvey so I have'nt had to determine which size guide I needeed. As for the distance from the reel seat to the stripper guide this would vary depending on the fishing style and type of reel.

These were my preferences and they suited me fine. Everyone has there own preferences and they suit there style of fishing, so don't take my advice as rule of thumb. At the end of the day it comes down to personal preferance and fishing style.


Now with fishingrod's rod will more than likely find that on a $65 rod that the backbone is not located along the centre line of the guides. If you are doing deep water fishing with this rod and only floating or dropping the rig to the seabed you will find that this combo is fine. If you are casting distance with this setup you will find that the smaller stripper guide will have an adverse affect with casting distance. Also with the rod loaded up if you are finding that the rod is wanting to twist in your hands then the backbone is having an adverse affect and should be returned.

At the end of the day fishing is about enjoying yourself so if you find that your rod is detracting from your enjoyment retun it and find something that will increase your fun.

This is only my 5c (2c does'nt exist anymore) :):)

Hope this makes sense, its 12.18, I am p@#$%d and tired,

Steve

[BigE]

I have only done this once ............ I now own a short stroker blank & have lost a good (& i mean good) red ......... misrable hollow feeling that followed will never let me repeat that mistake.

BigE

[roz]

I've done it myself. you will have to change the stripper guide ...at least, to make casting easier. But I definately wouldn't recommend making a habit of it.

If it's an issue regarding the store selling you the wrong rodfor the type of reel you intended to use, IMHO they should offer you a refund or exchange. Might pay to check with Fair Trading for that.

There are different schools of thought regarding the purpose of the 'back bone' in a rod, my thought is more along the lines of it being a balance issue rather than strength. But when I build my own, of course the backbone is always positioned to suit the reel.

I have recently finished building a rod to take the exact same reel you have there (baitrunner 4500).

good luck with it.

cheers r.

[rick_k]

well, looked at the specs on the Shakespeare site that fishinrod provided, that is not a casting tool.

Fishingrod, if it is any consolation, Silstar, the competition, make rods that are branded for both overhead and threadline. My wife has one, and was ecstatic to catch a nice barra on it baitfishing with a Penn Spinfisher egg beater. A mate lost the insert from his tip guide, and borrowed Fran's rod with his 4/0 game reel to catch a 19kg cobia.

That 4500 baitrunner is a sweet reel. Fran's has caught heaps of spaniards to 15kg (yeh, I know they are not huge, but are big enough) They hold a heap of platypus super 100 mono in 10kg. A more usual offshore baitrunner is the 6500.

I just love telling the Daiwa nut at the local tackle store that a 4500 baitrunner goes exceptionally smoothly from 0 drag to lock up, better than his saltigas......... he has coped pretty well so far. Maybe the Saltiga gears are better 8-)

You'll find that dedicated overhead rods usually have more runners to keep the line off the blank under load. That may be a plus. Maybe line touching the blank under load is ok on all but speedsters or long fights. But, more runners and more bindings are not a plus if you are after casting performance, which I guess you are not.

If you want a casting rod to go with the 4500, I'd look at the 7 or 8 footers as a starting point. That USG-BWS70A doesn't look too bad on paper, but an 8' may be better, and longer for beach or rocks. For high speed spinning a TSS4 is the classic. Other brands will have something suitable

It's all good; go fishing and enjoy. Then again, reading your posts, I can see you are doing just that.;D

Rick K

[fishingrod]

Ive christened the rod now ;D
A pan size 40cm snapper and a 65cm king fish. Nothing huge. But im happy with how it went. I dont need to do any casting. I feel that the tackle shop would have been OK to swap if i wanted to.

I was having a look at a old Shimano Rex Hunt rod that I have with a Charter Special on it. When its fully loaded up (5-6kg on the drag scales) the line actually touches the rod. So I might need to do some swapping.

Re Rick_K and the Silstar. I did have a similar Powertip or something rod from them but lost it overboard on NYE. I liked it more than the UggStik. But it was a fraction longer for using on the boat and was twice the price 5 years ago.

There been a interesting range of replies here. If id known at the time I prob would have choosen another rod. But theres times when you just want to mix and match what you already have. So thanks to all for your comments.

[rick_k]

went fishing on Thursday in Moreton Bay with a bloke who knows a lot more about offshore fishing than me (not difficult).

He likes 7' Live Fibre rods with his TLD20s for reef fishing, fished hard with 50lb mono. More control of fish at the boat when solo fishing with the longer rod, apparently. No big reefies jumped aboard that trip, so I didn't see it in action.

His mack rod was another lighter live fibre, maybe a bit over 7' long, with a 6500 baitrunner (lovely reel). :D

Congrats on the fish, fishingrod. Have yet to land a kingie. Did hook up to two on the same big mullet bait on Swansea bridge a couple of decades ago, but it ended in tears :D

Finally, when I say that 6' rod is not a casting tool, of course it is, but would not perhaps be the first choice for casting slugs long distances etc.

[fishingrod]

He likes 7' Live Fibre rods with his TLD20s for reef fishing, fished hard with 50lb mono. More control of fish at the boat when solo fishing with the longer rod, apparently. No big reefies jumped aboard that trip, so I didn't see it in action.


At the moment ive got a TLD20 and 25 with 30 & 50lb mono loaded on some shortish heavy action roller tips. They are my main Kingy tackle at the moment. Nothing is getting away from me with 50lb I hope !

I fish alone a lot of the time and find that around 5-6 foot max is the longest i can handle. Otherwise i cant hold the rod butt and reach to net the fish :D

There are quie a few Kings 50-80cm biting in and close off Sydney at the moment.

[harro1]

I've had an over head ugly stik for about 12yr maybe more and only ever used eggbeaters. I've used it for nearly everything (outside, lake, rocks) and never had a problem.