Longevity of your 4 x 4

[Lucky_Phill]

This subject arises from time to time, and now is the time to have your say.

Most 4WD's these days are Diesel and that is what this subject is about.

You basically have 3 choices:-

Diesel

Turbo Diesel

Turbo Intercooled Diesel

With modern technology, the turbo and inter diesels are more common and very fuel efficent. They put out great HP and Torque, but do they last as long as the standard models.

The current trend with turbo diesels are to have them at the lower end of the cc range and boost them with the technology of Turbos. They rev higher and drive ( or should I say , can be driven ) like a petrol car.

The standard, low reving, large capacity diesels like the 4.2 Toyo's seem to keep going forever.

Is this because they are driven differently to the turbos ?

Maybe you think servicing has something to do with it ?

I don't know if the current range of turbo and inter engines have been around long enough to prove themselves.

The Toyo's have been on the market for many years and certainly are still with out a re-build after 400,000 plus K's. I do hear of turbo motors blowing, but that has always been associated with constant high speed, long distance driving under abnormally high temps. Maybe an intercooler would have solved that problem ?

So really, is the current range of low cc turbos going to hang in there as long as the older style diesels ?

When you think about it, maybe they shouldn't, as in a Nissan Patrol running a 3ltr, 4 cyl motor, when the Toyo etc are running 4.2ltr 6 cyl . Yes, I know Patrols have a 4.2ltr turbo etc. But some do not.

Maybe should be comparing all 3ltr models, as most manufactures have these available. ?

And further, are we ( as consumers ) perpared to purchase a 4 x 4, that will not necessarily last us 10 plus years, and be prepared to upgrade every 5 or so. Or do we, bite the bullet, and buy the more expensive option, so that we feel safe it will see us thru to a new decade ?

Everyone is an individual and as such we have different views and needs, in regarding the 4 x 4 we own or want to own.

From my point of view ( here we go folks ! ;) ), the 4 x 4's I buy, I buy for value. I don't have electric windows and push button hubs ( ya big girls ). The 4 x 4's are to be used, on Fraser, up the creek, piggin, in the mud, bashed, bruised and bloodied, not sit in my driveway and washed at the weekend. I also am in a position where the vehicle is a tax deduction, therefore am inclined to replace said vehicle at the end of a lease ( about 5 years, normally ).

So fire away ferets, let's get some real feedback here.

Go the Nissans ! ;)

Cheers Phill

[SURF_SNIPER]

most factory turbo engines are a lot stonger built then a natrual which is had an aftermaket put on it. perhaps this is where some issuses arise with longevity.. landrover have been using turbo diesel ( in one form or another ) for over 55 years. i know of various people with stock 2.5 direct injection intercooled 4 cycl turbo diesles ( defenders ) with K's ranging from 350 K- 450K who have no issues. regular servicing is a major factor, as well as makeing sure the truck is sufficently cooled down after long hard 4wd or big road trips.( a turbo time is invaluble )

[blaze]

Hi Phil
I think you still need to put a petrol/gas in the mix.
I am a diesel mechanic by trade and would NOT buy a diesel powered road vehicle. OK shoot me, my reason for this is the expense of maintaining a diesel vehicle in relation to a petrol one. The cost of replacing or part there of the fuel system is a factor not many people take into account. It may only take a bad batch of fuel in conjuction with a poorly serviced filter. But if you can afford to replace the vehicle every five years the cost of those repairs would not be a problem, it is posible a problem if you lease or borrow to buy. The way I see it is that one of the reason I have a 90 model rangie is they are cheap to buy and for the work it does, reasonable on fuel (wish my boat was as good) and it doesnt cost an arm and a leg to repair.
As for my choice of deisel
governed to a certain rev wether turboed or natural aspirated.
My choice would be an old luger natural aspirated large capacity cubic displacement.
Less to go wrong.
but I will stick with my petrols (still some suckers about I suppose)

[whichway]

Good topic.

I understand that you're interested in motor life, but in SEQ, they all seem to rust away before the motors konk out.

Even 350,000 @ 20,000 per year = 17 years. Most (but certainly not all) 1988 4WDs have been scrapped by now (no disrespect to anyone with an older 4WD, but thats how I see it) Not too many 60 series around Brissy these days.

In other parts of the contry, there are a lot more older 4WDs, so I will read with interest.

Whichway

[NeilD]

Landies are still fine at 20 Years. Barely run in ;D ;D ;D Many are getting close to twice that age and still viable vehicles.

Neil

[Big_Kev]

Most Diesel engines manufactured in this day will be Turbo charged for resons of necessity.
That being the requirement to meet ever stringent emission standards.
But it is all not bad- as with necessity comes invention and we are seeing better more economical and powerful engines.
Approximately 80 percent of vehicles in Europe are diesel powered and it is hard to tell the difference when driving them until you have a look under the hood.

In your position Phil of trading up regularly, I would not hesitate to get into the the latest Turbo Intercooled CRD Electronic thingamee whatsit that is going at the time. - In particular if it was a Jeep.- But then again I would get the Hemi and teach em all how to eat dirt.

Blaze if you think that the old diesel engine fuel systems are expensive to fix, be sure you don't get a modern turbo CRD in ten years, thats if someone has lashed out and got the equipment to service the things by then otherwise it will be just new parts.

Good clean fuel is the secret to protect any high pressure fuel injection system even the one on the outboard.

Cheers Kev.

[Kendall249]

I've got a '93 80 series toyo with 400 000 on the clock its had an aftermarket turbo for around 370 000 of these. Albeit almost all highway k,s with regular services. Hardly blows smoke, only problem so far has been the seals in the injector pump ($$$). Plenty of grunt leaving new patrols (both 3lt inter T and 4.2TD) for dead, off the mark and on the highway. Still going strong!

[Daintreeboy]

I do hear of turbo motors blowing, but that has always been associated with constant high speed, long distance driving under abnormally high temps. Maybe an intercooler would have solved that problem ?


Cheers Phill

Correct me if I'm wrong but an intercooler cools the inlet air (after pressurising from a turbo) allowing more air to enter the piston for a bigger boom hence the extra power. There is no cooling effect where you are talking phill so an intercooler actually adds to the wear of an engine on top of a turbo. I agree a nuturally aspirated engine should have the best longevity and Toyos can go to hell!!!
hehehehe go Nissan!

[Lucky_Phill]

I ain't no mechanic, but when I see an intercooler it has a direct air intake from outside the vehicle ( bonnet scoops etc ), surely this would mean a cooler air intake ?

I dunno, ? :-[

I do know that intercoolers add extra grunt, maybe Kev or Rob could explain it to me ?

I also know of aftermarket ' chips' that add up to 30kw or more. it also adds to the fuel intake. so is there any point ?

Good points and info so far.

Phill

[vertico]

if you have no intercooler
hot air is getting pumped into the motor and something called heat soak occurs
eventually the motor will start heating up

[GBC]

Blaze, another off roader who can't make diesel's add up. Thank christ. I get paid to have 4bys for work so it doesn't really matter what the motor is, but sitting in the dealers being asked for an extra $7k straight up for the motor,being told service intervals are half of a petrol's, and if I get it wet it'll be $17k just for the donk. I can't make the figures add up....Don't get me wrong, I like diesels just not that much.
Not to mention captain Kilner's 'hungy' in the latest 4x4 monthly getting an average of 17-19 litres per hundred on road?????
Where is the up side here? Don't say water crossings unless you have manual fuel pumps and no electronic emmissions sensors on your beast....

[mackmauler]

Phill, since you like subject changes mine runs on petrol ;D original motor 1977 ;)

[Big_Kev]

Phil in laymans terms a turbo is merely an air compressor driven from the force of the exiting exhaust gases.
The intercooler in your Nissan is what technicaly is refered to as an Air To Air aftercooler. (After the Turbo) It is just like the Radiator in the front for cooling the water - only it is cooling the air after it is pressurized by the turbo.
The air that enters the bonnet scoop is for cooling the aftercooler. Some rice burners fit those huge ones out the front that has to have the grill removed to fit it in? ;D
The process of compressing the intake air along with the adition of absorbing heat from the turbo see's the air temp at well over 200 c when under load. This heated gas is expanded, cooled in the cooler and it will condense and more can be pushed into the combustion chamber.
More fuel means more heat in the hot expanded gases coming out and through the turbo, therefore the turbo spins faster pumps more air in and the engine produces more horsies.
There is a limit until things melt and break and the cooler allows the limits to be pushed a little further. Bigger or more efficient cooler allows for a bit more also.
A larger diameter free flowing exhaust will let the exhaust gases exit easier and give less restriction allowing the turbo to spin faster also. (cheap power).
A turbo is regarded as the most efficient method for increasing power from an engine as it uses the waste to generate the extra power.
It is like having a larger displacement engine with out the costs.

[GBC]

I thought 'heat soak' was what occurred to top mounted intercoolers which reduces their efficiency due to a loss in differential temp. Hence one of the reasons rice burners convert to front mount models?
Go to mrt.com.au etc for more info.
Would love to do this to the wife's subaru along with a few other mods but fishing is more important.

[FNQCairns]

Well that makes 3 of us, all thing considered diesels dont add up for me either.

On longevity,
Years a go I turbocharged a 2L engine Mazda with a Garrett T4 at 18 lb boost 0 to 100 in around 5 seconds - used to tow the boat awesome, no new fangled intercoolers just water injection. Got 20000 out of the first turbo and 45000 out of the second.

After a legal cruise down the highway at night and then a straight 8km of 60 speed limit i used to park in the garage, pop the bonnet and stare through the turbo shell at the turbine/s and shaft inside (they could be seen easily) until the unit cooled enough to no longer be transparent! around 3 to 5 minutes at idle.

Oops now to the point ::) I know diesels dont run this hot or anywhere near this boost but if you would like your turbo to last like double? get a timer and use it, more than doubled the life of the turbo I had.

cheers fnq

[Mad_Barry]

What really sucks, is only 10 or so years ago diesel was 8 to 10 cents per litre cheaper than petrol which made them an economical choice. These days with that gap being reversed it's hard to justify the extra purchase price of buying a diesel.

Considering diesel is not much more than the scum off the top during the refining process, it's another case of us fuel consumers being taken for an unpleasant ride.