when good deeds turn bad

[caloundra]

went fishing up DI on friday, just after I cut through and onto rainbow beach I came across a land rover disco that couldn't find a gear. and after hooking up the snatch strap and started towing him up the beach.I was in low range in 2nd gear draging the disco through the soft sand, after a couple hundred metre's I was greated with red and blue flashing lights.
puzzled as to why he pulled us over (as I was only going about 10k/h) the cop was quick to point out that I had not put my seat belt back on after hooking the snatch strap on.
after a $225 fine and 3 points he sent me on my way
how's that for helping someone in need

then on the way home. coming in to noosa there was an old lady (in her 70's) broken down on the side of the road, wondering what KARMA could do to me now I pulled over and offered help, to be greated with "I don't need your help" slaming the bonnet, jumping in the car, winding the window up and locking the door. acting like I was going to rape of mug her.

and to finish it off I didn't catch any fish

Daniel

[Herm]

Hi Daniel

Not good to hear about you unfortunate meeting with the boys in blue. :( or the lack of fish! >:(

If I had been the owner of the Jeep, I would have been paying the fine! You would not have got it with out helping them!

I often wonder whether to stop and attempt to help when I see people on the side of the road, and I heaven't yet. Mostly because I usually have 2 littlies in the car with me - but I know that I would appreciate any help offered if I was broken down with 2 kids under 4 1/2 in the car with me! ;)

Please don't let these bad experiences change your thoughts on helping someone who maybe in need.

Cheers
Janine

PS Just arrived at Caloundra tonight - any tips on where to get a feed??? ;) (I mean CATCH a feed!!! :)

[Tangles]

All I can say is you wouldnt read about it, would you, unbelievable.

The old lady i can sort of understand in a sense as when alone they can feel vulnerable ( especially with all the news today about the safety of seniors etc) I know my old gran wouldnt trust anybody if she was alone, sign of the times.

The cop i just cant understand as surely he can see the circumstances ( he could of easily just reminded you as you are on a highway and leave it at that), but maybe he's had a bad day and took it out on you by strictly enforcing the code without any give and take in the circumstances, (no excuse i know but it happens), or maybe he was just a "......" making a point.

Thing that really sucks is that the guy you snatched out didnt have the decency to offer to pay the fine. That to me is what really sucks. Anyway you did the right thing, and i know it sucks.

cheers
Mike

[Leigh77]

I have a similar story when Karma turns out be a little bit twisted...

Was walking through the local shopping centre and I happened to see an elderly lady (in a motorised scooter thing) drop her purse...to save her trying to pick it up and possibly fall out. I went to lean down and pick it up for her (I have seen her in the complex before, she must be a local).

She started screaming "theif theif theif" and I was tackled by some big hairy ape...I didnt really know what was going on so I did the first thing that came to mind. I laid the back of my elbow against his cheek (rather quickly!) and that allowed me to get out from under him and get up. I was then grabbed from behind by a security gaurd and pushed up against a concrete pilon thing.

Meanwhile the old duck is still yelling out "thief thief thief"...it was then it clicked. She thought I was knocking her purse off. After the security gaurd didnt believe me, and the cops were called (they got there bloody quick too) here I was still pinned up against the pilon...Everybody looking/whispering as they walked past...To say I was rather embarrassed is an understatement.

It took me nearly an hour to convince them that I was only trying to help the lady by picking up her purse...I think the only reason they let me go in the end was because they couldnt prove anything different.

Heres the kicker part of the story...

A few weeks later I was back at the shopping centre with my family (wife and 5yo daughter)...We were walking along and I saw the same lady in the same scooter thing. She had dropped something yet again...So as Karma treated me like a #$@#% the first time I just walked past. Then I got abused by this woman for not helping.

It was then I turned and let her know who I was (from a few weeks back)....why would I help you, ya cranky old $%^#@?? I asked. She could not apologise soon enough. She ended up saying it was my hat (that I wear backwards when working) that made her think I was robbing her.

Life is a b!tch...and Karma aint that far behind!

[bootyinblue]

All I can say is you wouldnt read about it, would you, unbelievable.

The cop i just cant understand as surely he can see the circumstances ( he could of easily just reminded you as you are on a highway and leave it at that), but maybe he's had a bad day and took it out on you by strictly enforcing the code without any give and take in the circumstances, (no excuse i know but it happens), or maybe he was just a "......" making a point.


Why do we always have to be having a bad day, or didnt get any last night when we go about doing our job and making the community and its members safe?

There are offences for which we have no discretion to warn/advise and must give a ticket for. Seatbelts are one of them. You may have been driving at 10kmh, however the car that loses control and slams head on into you at 100kmh will still catapult you through the windscreen if you dont have a belt.

Seat belt wearing is even more essenstial now in cars fitted with airbags as the seatbelt holds you in position for when the airbag deploys and believe me, you dont want to be any closer than you have to be when an explosion goes off in your steering column and the centre cover of your steering wheel splits exposing the airbag in your face!!

[grey_inflatable]

well mate i rekon that suks
and as for the cops i would have thought theyd be bit more mellow than that it .must be the noosa keen beans, doing the run up doing the rbt thing. gone the good old days of driving the frby dwn from the camp to fish in the arvy.

[Leigh77]

well mate i rekon that suks
and as for the cops i would have thought theyd be bit more mellow than that it .must be the noosa keen beans, doing the run up doing the rbt thing. gone the good old days of driving the frby dwn from the camp to fish in the arvy.

I would love to hear you say that after one of your family members is struck down on the beach by a drunk driver.

[Poodroo]

Amazing! Can't believe the cops would fine you when you were in the process of helping someone in need. They must have been saving for a Policeman's Ball or something. Even more amazing that a woman who is offered help from a stranger acts so rude. The least she could have done is smiled and thanked you for the kind offer but she had already organized help or something. What the hell is this world coming to??
It's still good to know that there are people like you caloundra who will stop to offer assistance. Well done!

Poodroo

[marshy]

Hey Caloundra, sorry to hear that karma bit you on the arse. With regard to the fine my advice is to fight it, Section 267 of transport operations [ road use managemant-road rules] regulation 1999 . Exemption from wearing seat belt; [1] A person is in or on a motor vehicle is exempt from wearing a seat belt if ; [b] vehicle is not travelling over 25kmh.

Personally I would wear a seat belt below 25kmh but the law is the law & you shouldn't pay the fine. My belief is that most police wouldn't know this & even if they did they would still fine you anyway. Good luck & keep up the good deeds!

Marshy :)

[caloundra]

Thanks guys

yeah. the cops could have seen that I was in the middle of helping someone out and gone a little soft on m,e but the young lady cop was abit full of her self
My wife thinks I shound fight it and with marshy's helpful information I think I will

Daniel

[choppa]

hey daniel,,,, i read this report when you first posted it thinking that there would be a mixed bag of replies,,, wasn't wrong eh mate

i know it hard to fathom the reasons why the officer passed over the fine so quickly and probably had a smile on her dial at the same time,,, but you are probably more aware than most the amount of media coverage the carnage that is being reported in the Sunshine Coast Daily and relevant s/coast papers over the past few months,,,and like yourself because i work there,,, read every day

the boys/girls in blue do bleed the same color as us,,,, but at the end of the day,,, bootyinblue (has some mad ideas on rodholders),,is true by word,,,,

regardless what speed your doing,,, an airbag in the kosh is painful if you get the brunt of it,,and can leave serious and permanent damage,,

and i know that marshy's reply has merit,,,,,, there are exemptions to seatbelts,,,and if the judge see's your side of the story,,,you may get off,,,or at least redeem your points

i would have hit up the other driver,,,especially whilst the cars were still attached,,,

don't loose your faith mate,,,,,,,it could have been worse,,,,it could have been reversed

choppa

[grenadier]

the cops should start catching the hoods that do 100km plus up the beach instead of people not wearing seat belts

the cops shit me with their catch the innocent people rules

[grenadier]

the cops should start catching the hoons that do 100km plus up the beach instead of people not wearing seat belts

the cops shit me with their catch the innocent people rules

[cooky]

There are offences for which we have no discretion to warn/advise and must give a ticket for. Seatbelts are one of them. You may have been driving at 10kmh, however the car that loses control and slams head on into you at 100kmh will still catapult you through the windscreen if you dont have a be

I guess that's true, but I can't remember a time I've ever helped someone in a recovery / snatch-strap situation and put my seatbelt on. Mind you most recovery situations are no where near anywhere anyone can be doing 100km/h - hence the reason people get stuck. I just find the attitude from the cop unusual and silly. I was pulled up in the christmas break by police who claimed I was speeding - they asked me what the speed was on a road - I correctly answered 70km/h - the male cop thought it was 60 - the female officer corrected him. He then claimed that he had to travel at 100km/h to catch me - I said to him that that was strange, because I would have only been doing 65/70 at the time. He said I must be dreaming, I said he must be dreaming...... anyway they noticed my rego sticker was out of date and fortunately let me go with a warning. They could have been pricks and fined me, but let me go with a warning. Surely the same could have been done in the DI situation.

[caloundra]

There are offences for which we have no discretion to warn/advise and must give a ticket for. Seatbelts are one of them. You may have been driving at 10kmh, however the car that loses control and slams head on into you at 100kmh will still catapult you through the windscreen if you dont have a belt.

bootyinblue
this is on a BEACH not a major highway with cars flying past you at 100+k/hr I agree that some laws must be adheared to at all times but I think this is not one of them, a little discretion should have been used
as marshy outlined further down a seatbelt is not required by law if your vehicle is traveling less than 25k/hr
normaly I do wear a seatbelt but for some reason ( bad judgement )I did not when helping to recover the broken down 4b
I drive a truck 10+ hours a day and see the amount of dickheads on the roads.
I have written a letter to the prosecution unit stating no law had been broken so I will see what comes out of it

Daniel

[caloundra]

also my 4b is an old 4runner with no air bags

[bay_firey]

Marshy

You can't read part of a section of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management—Road
Rules) Regulation 1999 in isolation.

The section below is where you got your info from and is all clause 1 of section 267
You need to be engaged in the activities listed AND doing less than 25km/hr whilst engaging in those activities to be exempt under this section of the law


267 Exemptions from wearing seatbelts
(1) A person in or on a motor vehicle is exempt from wearing a
seatbelt if—
(a) the person is—
(i) engaged in the door-to-door delivery or collection
of goods, or in the collection of waste or garbage;
and
(ii) required to get in or out of the vehicle, or on or off
the vehicle, at frequent intervals; and
(b) the vehicle is not travelling over 25km/h.


Otherwise section 264 applies

264 Wearing of seatbelts by drivers
(1) The driver of a motor vehicle that is moving, or is stationary
but not parked, must comply with this section if the driver’s
seating position is fitted with a seatbelt.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.
(2) The driver must wear the seatbelt properly adjusted and
fastened unless the driver is—
(a) reversing the vehicle; or
(b) exempt from wearing a seatbelt under section 267.

[bay_firey]

Now to who is to blame for the fine ? ? ?

Who made the choice to not wear a seatbelt ? ? ?

So I ask a simple question
Who's fault is it that a fine was issued -

The poor bloody copper who gets blamed every time they issue a fine.

OR

The driver who CHOSE to break the law in the first place.


why is it that people are always willing to blame somebody else for their own descions, it is time that people started to accept the consequences for their OWN actions.

I do hope that this does not come accross as personal attack because it is not, just my feelings on this topic

[marshy]

Caloundra.I have re- read seat belt section of the road rules & it looks like I gave you a bum steer on the exemptions. Look I am really sorry about that. Bay-firey has it right.
I first heard about this exemption a few years ago from a customer of mine but perhaps they were involved in delivery or collection at the time they were fined ? My apologies again.

Marshy :)

[choppa]

hence the reason why i stated that he may,,,,redeem points,,,, if the judge has a fair hearing

but then again,,,the front page of the SCD was once more filled with road rules and carnage today,,,stating that a blitz is occuring

i feel for the occurence of the fine ""under"" the circumstances of it,,,,

but at the end of the day,,,,just were do you draw the line,,,after all rules are rules

choppa

[keen_angler]

Caloundra,
Make sure you fight this, I received a fine about a year back for not wearing a seatbelt while I was in a shopping centre doing way under 25km/h when the guys in blue pulled me up.

I to heard about not having to wear a seatbelt if doing under 25km/h (that is what I was told anyway), so I sent a letter to, 2 weeks later received a reply that the fine has been cancelled with an apology for the misunderstanding.

If worst comes to worst since you have written to them you don't have to pay the fine until you have this resolved, but make sure that you state to them that once you have this completely resolved or go to court (court would be the last step) you will not be paying the fine and you want something in writting from them that they accept this, I did this for another fine which took 6 months to resolve.

keen_angler

[caloundra]

hopefuly I'll let you guys now the verdict in a few weeks
sorry to open a can of worms

Daniel

[themisses]

I am puzzled as to why others feel the person being helped should pay the fine?? Surely they had their seat belt on or they would also have been fined?? We make and have to live by our choices. As Booty stated they do not have the choice to let you off the hook for not wearing a seat belt. For good reason, they are the poor buggers that have to clean up the carnage when things do go wrong. They see and do things that no human should have to do.
Not a personal attack, just another point of view.
Cheers Kim. :)

[Herm]

I am puzzled as to why others feel the person being helped should pay the fine?? Surely they had their seat belt on or they would also have been fined?? We make and have to live by our choices.


Hi there Kim

In answer to your question - If I had been the person that Caloundra was helping - I would be paying that fine!

If he had not stopped to help, he would not have been fined in the first place. If Caloundra hadn't offered to help, how long would the Jeep had sat there? How much is it worth to have been on the receiving end of someone else's time, kindness and assistance?

It is sad - but I now know why so many are hesitant to help out others! [smiley=sad.gif]

Janine

[Tangles]

Kim,

Another point of view, I think that if I was in that situation of being helped and whoever helped me got pinged, i would feel obliged to pay the fine, afterall they where helping me, they didnt need to. Its a sad world i reckon if people would in this circumstance feel tough its your problem but ill take your help anyway but you can cop the fine ( you should have known).

I can see Bootyinblues point of hands being tied, even though still I remember the force of "old" perhaps having more discretion, perhaps they dont have that now, but that also says that the force today dont have much room for discretion which is reflection on society. Still think in the circumstances a quiet word was perhaps more in order but thats my opinion. Only thing i ask is the guy being snatched, did he have his seatbelt on as well? I hope so.

I still reckon what really sucks in all this is Caloundra helped someone out, didnt have too, and got a hefty fine for his troubles for something i suspect most dont do, put a seatbelt on whilst snatching. The person being helped didn't do the right thing..period.

Perhaps why a can of words is opened here is that someone got done doing the right thing, I dont think this thread would raise a sweat otherwise. It illustrates that we dont really know the law/our rights etc, it sort of encourages everyone to leave people stuck as its too much trouble etc and i would hate to see that happen. , I always thought there was a certain sense of helping others, but some of these posts leave me a bit flat to be honest, sort of justifying why we dont have too as its their problem.

If i was bogged to the rails and someones good enough to help me, id be grateful, and looking to do the right thing, as what goes around comes around
cheers
mike

[Herm]

Igusto!

Exactly what I was trying to say! Just said better!!! :)

:)Janine

[themisses]

Hi guys,
If I had been fined in the same/similar situation and the offer to pay the fine was there, I would kindly refuse. It would have been my mistake and I should take the consequences. The fact that the police can not use there discretion is as you say Igusto is a sad reflection on society. Shoe on the other foot, being helped, I'm not sure what I would do. Even if there was no incident I would at least give them a carton or bottle of their choice, for their time and help. It does bite that Caloundra was fined whist helping someone out. Hopefully it doesn't stop him or the rest of us helping someone next time.

Janine, I know what you mean about stopping to help if you are alone or have little ones with you. Sometimes you just don't feel safe to do so. I lock the doors and crack the window and offer the mobile if I am alone.
I remember a few years ago in Lismore a guy stopped to help a car on the side of the road with it's bonnet up. Only to have the snot beat out of him, left on the side of the road, wallet and car stolen. :(

Cheers Kim. :)

[robothefisho]

I think its been said here to many times that people don't wear your seatbelt while snatching, it makes me wonder have you ever used a snatch strap? Sure you use them at low speeds in low range. But have you ever recovered a vehicle that stops you dead while trying to snatch even tho you may being doing less then 10 or 15 kmh you will still fly forward. I just think it needs to be said, i think snatching a car out is one of the most important times to wear a seatbelt as you know your car will slow down rapidly. And as for the cops being required to hand over a fine,pull your finger out and suggest a possible did you just take it off when i pulled you over sir. Oh yes officer, riteo oh then carry on. Cheers all.

[caloundra]

the cops passed me then did a Uturn and pulled me over

as for cops being able to use discression a friend of mine was pulled over in his new ss doing 160 in a 100 zone the cop said he should have lost his licence but insted he only lost 3 points and $225 (the same as me)

is this fair :-?

Daniel

[PinHead]

the cops passed me then did a Uturn and pulled me over

as for cops being able to use discression a friend of mine was pulled over in his new ss doing 160 in a 100 zone the cop said he should have lost his licence but insted he only lost 3 points and $225 (the same as me)

is this fair :-?

Daniel

definitely not fair..your mate is a complete moron driving like that...should have ripped his license up and towed his car away.

[cooky]

Who made the choice to not wear a seatbelt ? ? ?

So I ask a simple question
Who's fault is it that a fine was issued -

The poor bloody copper who gets blamed every time they issue a fine.


Interesting that in Australia we all seem to be brainwashed into following RULES everyday of our lives. There does need to be some discretion in my opinion. RULES, RULES, RULES - got to love it. I understand they are there to protect us from the idiots, but really there needs to be some common sense. What about getting fined for speeding while overtaking a vehicle - got to love that rule. Car doing 95km/h - you try to overtake while not exceeding 100km/h - is that more unsafe than overtaking at 130km/h and being on wrong side of road for less time. I've often driven out west for hours at 130km/h in modern vehicles and feel very safe when not seeing another car or wildlife for hours - i don't see this as irresponsible - many people would - simply because I'm BREAKING the RULES.

[bootyinblue]

Caloundra,

Mate I can understand why you are a bit filthy on us for doing our job, but dragging other peoples stupidity into it (160kmh in 100kmh zone) is not the answer.

As pointed out under TORUMS RRUL Regs 1999 you have to meet all the elements of the section or you are breaking the law.

Someone else 'advised' you again incorrectly on here that aslong as you write a letter you dont have to pay the fine till its resolved. Incorrect and to quote from my spiel 'Instructions on how to deal with this ticket are located in the middle, you must take some action on this ticket within 28 days. If you wish to have the matter heard at court then complete the topr right hand section and forward it on to Queensland Transport.....blah blah blah....

Unfortunately, writing a letter to the Superintendant of Traffic is not an option listed. You debt will go to SPER and then be hit with an administration fee on top of the fine and then given a voluntary payment plan option with them if you chose. If you still ignore it, your llicence will be cancelled, but that is another big kettle of fish......

[TonyOW31]

the cops passed me then did a Uturn and pulled me over

as for cops being able to use discression a friend of mine was pulled over in his new ss doing 160 in a 100 zone the cop said he should have lost his licence but insted he only lost 3 points and $225 (the same as me)

is this fair :-?

Daniel

definitely not fair..your mate is a complete moron driving like that...should have ripped his license up and towed his car away.


why is he a complete moron? and why should he have his license ripped up and his car towed away?
do you know the circumstances? could it have been on a deserted motorway at 3am? 160 kmh in a modern performance car is very safe, far safer than an old car with crap suspension, brakes and skinny tyres doing 80kmh in heavy traffic, even tho he is well within the arbitary speed limit set by the powers that be.
I know my last sports car was safer at 200 than my patrol is at 100.
dont get caught up in the every k over is a killer crap that is trotted out by the revenue raisers, it has been proved over and over that it is bull.

[Blackened]

G'day
tony......... I understand each progression in technology makes cars safer, and every new sports model is better than the last.

Point it, the speed LIMIT was 100km/hr. This guy was doing 160km/hr... that's 60km/hr over and above the limit, wich should have been far worse concequences.

It's not about what a vehicle is capable of and at what speeds and for how long.... The fact is the rues were broken, and broken badly.

Dave

[PinHead]

the cops passed me then did a Uturn and pulled me over

as for cops being able to use discression a friend of mine was pulled over in his new ss doing 160 in a 100 zone the cop said he should have lost his licence but insted he only lost 3 points and $225 (the same as me)

is this fair :-?

Daniel

definitely not fair..your mate is a complete moron driving like that...should have ripped his license up and towed his car away.


why is he a complete moron? and why should he have his license ripped up and his car towed away?
do you know the circumstances? could it have been on a deserted motorway at 3am? 160 kmh in a modern performance car is very safe, far safer than an old car with crap suspension, brakes and skinny tyres doing 80kmh in heavy traffic, even tho he is well within the arbitary speed limit set by the powers that be.
I know my last sports car was safer at 200 than my patrol is at 100.
dont get caught up in the every k over is a killer crap that is trotted out by the revenue raisers, it has been proved over and over that it is bull.



I used to race a rally car..believe me..when things come unstuck at 160k they come unstuck in a big way..like a multi rollover..fortunately I had roll cage, decent seats, harnesses and helmet....out on the highway..no way would I do it...and so the guy doing 160 is certain that a roo is not going to jump out if front of him...or a car pull out from somewhere..I will stand by what I said...anyone doing 160k on a public road is a moron and shoul;d be removed from the roads.

as for a any car safer at 200k than at 100k..simple laws of physics says that is crap....maybe you should visit a mortuary and see some of the sights from car crashes...not very pretty to see.

[bootyinblue]

the cops passed me then did a Uturn and pulled me over

as for cops being able to use discression a friend of mine was pulled over in his new ss doing 160 in a 100 zone the cop said he should have lost his licence but insted he only lost 3 points and $225 (the same as me)

is this fair :-?

Daniel

definitely not fair..your mate is a complete moron driving like that...should have ripped his license up and towed his car away.


why is he a complete moron? and why should he have his license ripped up and his car towed away?
do you know the circumstances? could it have been on a deserted motorway at 3am? 160 kmh in a modern performance car is very safe, far safer than an old car with crap suspension, brakes and skinny tyres doing 80kmh in heavy traffic, even tho he is well within the arbitary speed limit set by the powers that be.
I know my last sports car was safer at 200 than my patrol is at 100.
dont get caught up in the every k over is a killer crap that is trotted out by the revenue raisers, it has been proved over and over that it is bull.


Ohh... Tony,

Please do not be so misguided about speed not being a killer!

Try this simple experiment. Roll an egg along a floor at the skirting board at a slow pace, nothing happens. Now roll it at the skirting board as fast as possible, splatters everywhere!!

If you are still not convinced that speed is a factor when it comes to damage caused by changes in direction (roll overs) or sudden stops (other cars, power poles) then come and spend a day on the road with me at work. You will see 150m of skid marks followed by a car ripped in pieces from hitting something immovable, and yes sometimes sadly a person who now has an appearance similar to the egg.

What if that was one of your loved ones, that I now have to come and knock on your door at 3am and say I am sorry, there has been an accident and ..................

[cooky]

of course speed is a killer - common sense, but there certainly are many OTHER factors and I think speed is often a poor excuse and overused. Maybe it's the easiest one to police (not having a stab at the police at all). I agree with the difference between an EH Holden with semi bald tyres and worn brake pads travelling at 80km/h and say a Suburu WRX with expensive tyres, etc - I'm amazed how quickly some new cars can STOP and avoid an accident. I have a 4x4 with excellent tyres and good brakes and I've avoided a few accidents from defence driving. I personally get pissed off at getting the same fine and points from driving 120/130km/h on the roads near Mt Isa (sstraight, no cars, no trees, nothing, high visibility - as some turkey doing on a busy highway near a major town with cars overtaking, poor light, corners, etc etc.

Rules are rules though ;)

[TonyOW31]

the cops passed me then did a Uturn and pulled me over

as for cops being able to use discression a friend of mine was pulled over in his new ss doing 160 in a 100 zone the cop said he should have lost his licence but insted he only lost 3 points and $225 (the same as me)

is this fair :-?

Daniel

definitely not fair..your mate is a complete moron driving like that...should have ripped his license up and towed his car away.


why is he a complete moron? and why should he have his license ripped up and his car towed away?
do you know the circumstances? could it have been on a deserted motorway at 3am? 160 kmh in a modern performance car is very safe, far safer than an old car with crap suspension, brakes and skinny tyres doing 80kmh in heavy traffic, even tho he is well within the arbitary speed limit set by the powers that be.
I know my last sports car was safer at 200 than my patrol is at 100.
dont get caught up in the every k over is a killer crap that is trotted out by the revenue raisers, it has been proved over and over that it is bull.


Ohh... Tony,

Please do not be so misguided about speed not being a killer!

Try this simple experiment. Roll an egg along a floor at the skirting board at a slow pace, nothing happens. Now roll it at the skirting board as fast as possible, splatters everywhere!!

If you are still not convinced that speed is a factor when it comes to damage caused by changes in direction (roll overs) or sudden stops (other cars, power poles) then come and spend a day on the road with me at work. You will see 150m of skid marks followed by a car ripped in pieces from hitting something immovable, and yes sometimes sadly a person who now has an appearance similar to the egg.

What if that was one of your loved ones, that I now have to come and knock on your door at 3am and say I am sorry, there has been an accident and ..................

I am an engineer, I used to specialise in motor vehicles and did a lot of consulting for police forces in Europe with regard to MVA's. I used to help determine whether mechanical failure was a factor in accidents, and visited many hundreds of accident scenes, so I am talking from experience here. The usual MO was if a cause could not be determined for the accident, it was attributed to excess speed, therefore skewing the statistics to back up the speed kills brainwashing.
I also did not say that the consequences of the accident would not be worse, what I do say is that speed is not the root cause of most accidents on our roads.
As a cop, I am sure you will back me up on this, aren't the vast majority of MVA's low speed accidents?, are you also going to ban people from driving slowly to reduce the accident rate? Basically the cause of the majority of accidents is inattentiveness, lack of driving skills and ignorance of the road rules. Recent studies in the UK and America have caused the police to review their policies regarding speeding and put more emphasis on education and awareness, and in some American states raising the speed limit has actually reduced the road toll.
I do a lot of ks , roughly 150,000+ and can point out various places where speed limits are set with the sole intention of catching people speeding.
If road safety was a major concern there would be far more simple and inexpensive measures in place to improve road conditions.
For example, there was a new road built recently in my area, and there is one access point along that road other than the ends, and if you looked at the road and said ‘where is the worst possible place to put a junction?’ that would be it. There have been numerous accidents there which could have been avoided with a bit of decent input from the traffic division, but I suppose they are too busy manning laser guns to worry about stuff like that eh?
How about white lines and junction markings in the wet having the grip of an ice rink? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle in the wet over these things? fixing things like this are simple, effective and inexpensive safety measures, but bring no revenue so are ignored.
I think it would be far better to treat the cause rather than the effect, as is currently the case, but that would not be economically viable eh?

[bay_firey]

you are kidding aren't you ? ? ?

[PinHead]

I am an engineer, I used to specialise in motor vehicles and did a lot of consulting for police forces in Europe with regard to MVA's. I used to help determine whether mechanical failure was a factor in accidents, and visited many hundreds of accident scenes, so I am talking from experience here. The usual MO was if a cause could not be determined for the accident, it was attributed to excess speed, therefore skewing the statistics to back up the speed kills brainwashing.
I also did not say that the consequences of the accident would not be worse, what I do say is that speed is not the root cause of most accidents on our roads.
As a cop, I am sure you will back me up on this, aren't the vast majority of MVA's low speed accidents?, are you also going to ban people from driving slowly to reduce the accident rate? Basically the cause of the majority of accidents is inattentiveness, lack of driving skills and ignorance of the road rules. Recent studies in the UK and America have caused the police to review their policies regarding speeding and put more emphasis on education and awareness, and in some American states raising the speed limit has actually reduced the road toll.
I do a lot of ks , roughly 150,000+ and can point out various places where speed limits are set with the sole intention of catching people speeding.
If road safety was a major concern there would be far more simple and inexpensive measures in place to improve road conditions.
For example, there was a new road built recently in my area, and there is one access point along that road other than the ends, and if you looked at the road and said ‘where is the worst possible place to put a junction?’ that would be it. probably designed by an engineeredThere have been numerous accidents there which could have been avoided with a bit of decent input from the traffic division, but I suppose they are too busy manning laser guns to worry about stuff like that eh?
How about white lines and junction markings in the wet having the grip of an ice rink? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle in the wet over these things? sure have..tram tracks were even more fun fixing things like this are simple, effective and inexpensive safety measures, but bring no revenue so are ignored.
I think it would be far better to treat the cause rather than the effect, as is currently the case, but that would not be economically viable eh?


I will go back to part of your earlier statement: "160 kmh in a modern performance car is very safe". Please tell me why then that the guys that pilot the fastest cars wear complete safety gear yet they have no white lines to contend with and no other traffic. They are very experienced and yet accidents still happen. As I said earlier...it only takes something small to break or malfunction at that speed and very few drivers, regardless of experience can control the situation. We all agree that there is a lot that can be done in the way of road construction and driver education...but that is still no excuse for someone to drive at those speeds. Once again in Qld there was over 300 people killed on the roads in 2006...that is 300+ families lives shattered...plus the even greater number of people injured...and every single one of those accidents is avoidable...it is a complete waste of life in my opinion and something which saddens me.

[FNQCairns]

People wonder where/how/why todays general level of social disrespect and 'I am alright jack' attitude started, good to see the copper who booked you is keeping at least his end up and making for a continuation of the same well into the future >:(.

cheers fnq

[TonyOW31]

I am an engineer, I used to specialise in motor vehicles and did a lot of consulting for police forces in Europe with regard to MVA's. I used to help determine whether mechanical failure was a factor in accidents, and visited many hundreds of accident scenes, so I am talking from experience here. The usual MO was if a cause could not be determined for the accident, it was attributed to excess speed, therefore skewing the statistics to back up the speed kills brainwashing.
I also did not say that the consequences of the accident would not be worse, what I do say is that speed is not the root cause of most accidents on our roads.
As a cop, I am sure you will back me up on this, aren't the vast majority of MVA's low speed accidents?, are you also going to ban people from driving slowly to reduce the accident rate? Basically the cause of the majority of accidents is inattentiveness, lack of driving skills and ignorance of the road rules. Recent studies in the UK and America have caused the police to review their policies regarding speeding and put more emphasis on education and awareness, and in some American states raising the speed limit has actually reduced the road toll.
I do a lot of ks , roughly 150,000+ and can point out various places where speed limits are set with the sole intention of catching people speeding.
If road safety was a major concern there would be far more simple and inexpensive measures in place to improve road conditions.
For example, there was a new road built recently in my area, and there is one access point along that road other than the ends, and if you looked at the road and said ‘where is the worst possible place to put a junction?’ that would be it. probably designed by an engineeredThere have been numerous accidents there which could have been avoided with a bit of decent input from the traffic division, but I suppose they are too busy manning laser guns to worry about stuff like that eh?
How about white lines and junction markings in the wet having the grip of an ice rink? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle in the wet over these things? sure have..tram tracks were even more fun fixing things like this are simple, effective and inexpensive safety measures, but bring no revenue so are ignored.
I think it would be far better to treat the cause rather than the effect, as is currently the case, but that would not be economically viable eh?


I will go back to part of your earlier statement: "160 kmh in a modern performance car is very safe". Please tell me why then that the guys that pilot the fastest cars wear complete safety gear yet they have no white lines to contend with and no other traffic. They are very experienced and yet accidents still happen. As I said earlier...it only takes something small to break or malfunction at that speed and very few drivers, regardless of experience can control the situation. We all agree that there is a lot that can be done in the way of road construction and driver education...but that is still no excuse for someone to drive at those speeds. Once again in Qld there was over 300 people killed on the roads in 2006...that is 300+ families lives shattered...plus the even greater number of people injured...and every single one of those accidents is avoidable...it is a complete waste of life in my opinion and something which saddens me.


But how many of those 300 deaths were caused by speeding?, in the last 10 years I have been involved in 4 accidents, in three of which I was stationary and was hit at less than 20kmh. The last one I was at a set of red traffic lights and was hit from the rear, resulting in a broken back and two back operations, none of them were anything to do with excess speed. If the same amount of effort was spent in other areas as is spent on catching speeders the road toll would go down.
I heard a pollie going on about the Ipswich motorway last year saying we have reduced the speed limit from 100 to 90 and it didnt make any difference to the accident statistics, so we will have to drop it further, they have no idea whatsoever, what is it they say the definition of madness is? keep trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results ::)
Every year cars get safer, every year more revenue is gained from speeding by increasing detection streams, every year the accident statistics stay the same or get worse. What does this tell you? targeting speeding does not do anything, thats what it says. Driver education is the key, look at germany's accident stats with their open speed limits on autobarns, and compare them with ours, look at the lengths you have to go through in Germany to get a licence, compare it with ours, and you may then get some perspective other than what you are told to believe.

[jimbamb]

Noosa north shore beach IS classified as a public Road and all rules apply.

[jimbamb]

Check out the under 25kph thing i thought it was 10 kph,