Discount (Cheap) Petrol.

[bignick]

As is the norm, I like to try and save a dollar wherever possible, so I started using Woolies petrol with the discount vouchers. Running a boat, a Toyota Landcruiser and a Ford Falcon, I was saving enough. But, in my opinion, the Woolies petrol is rubbish. It has destroyed the fuel injectors on my wife's Falcon and my outboard (Yamaha 115 V4 2 Stroke) definitely doesn't like it. It misses and farts and smokes up and carries on at low revs from time to time and can be hard to start. So far, the Landcruiser is unaffected. I started to get suss on it when I was fueling up and I got a smell of the petrol and it smelt exactly the same as the fuel that is sold on Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean, which is delivered there from Singapore. It looks the same, being a dirty tinge of brown/gold, as opposed to the pink or light blue we are used to here. The worst thing is that it seems to be quite oily, and it leaves a greasy residue on your hands if you touch it. That would explain the difficulty in starting and rough low-rev running, probably leaving the same residue on spark plugs and in fuel injectors. My mate is a mechanic and he has seen 2 cars that wouldn't even start on it. Sometimes, you can't even set fire to it with a cigarette lighter. It would only take one bad bit of fuel to stop an outboard, possibly on a bar or in bad weather, and the consequences of that could be fatal. Personally, I'm finished with Woolies petrol. I have about 2 more dockets to use up, then that's it. After my next big trip where I'll burn up most of my fuel, I'll treat the boat to a belly full of Shell Optimax to clean any residue out of the fuel tank and burn it off. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts or opinions of others with regard to this subject, or any similar experiences with Woolies fuel.

Cheers,
NICK.

[caveman]

a mate's fuel pump started leaking when he used it (diesel) and as soon as he stoped useing it the fuel pump stoped leaking no more woolies fuel for him

[Morlers]

It purports to be Caltex fuel but interestingly, I note that Woolies uses Toll petrol tankers to replenish their tanks and not Caltex petrol tankers like the local Caltex service stations do. ???

:) :)

Morlers

[ScottB]

Hi Guys,

My outboard mechanic was absolutely horrified when he heard that we'd been using woolworths petrol and said that it was just cheap rubbish. (It explained alot of the problems that we were having with the engine at the time as well). I haven't toched the stuff since

Scott

[Derek Bullock]

Bugger, I thought it was Caltex as well.


Derek

[MY-TopEnder]

Not a problem with Woolies because i never use it BUT this time with Seven Eleven.

I've only owned my new Surf for 3 weeks now right... all was going fine. I fueled up at Windaroo on 19l of Diesel... lasted about 160km which isn't too bad. I then noticed that first start of the day, a cold start it was VERY rough, stalling on me once.

Next load of fuel was on Tuesday, filled at Seven Eleven at Coopers Plains, this time even rougher first starts despite glowing till the relay clicked and so on. Stalled on me most mornings. Economy there dropped to 20l for 115km.

By thursday arvo i was fresh out of that 20l, and 2 doors down from work is a BP servo, so i put another 19L in, and so far have 130km on it, no rough starting, alot less black smoke, and still have about 50km left in it.

NEVER again will i be buying diesel at a Seven Eleven, and i am just as concerned because i use their unleaded in the boat, i won't be now.

*** All information is true and correct, there is no intent to reduce sales at any of the previously mentioned service stations.

[imported_admin]

I thought that Wollies fuel came from Thailand ?


BP desiel has a lower level of sulphur, cost me a set of fuel pump seals and BP wouldn't pay for the repair. I had never used BP deisel as I had heard of the problems thay had and all the people they had to pay to replace the seals when they first lowered the sulphur level. But one day I needed deisel and didn't think about the BP desiel and before the tamk had been used the seals went. So if you have a desiel that uses the old seals in the fuel pump, about 10 years old or more then be careful. It is not that the sulpur is lower it is the other stuff they put in it so they can lower the sulpur.

[bigal]

us bp ultimate.

[MY-TopEnder]

For unleaded cars, i swear by BP Ultimate... i've proven it lasts longer and shows better performance.

[bignick]

Petrol from a Caltex Woolies site is Caltex petrol, as opposed to a Woollies site which carries the Woollies petrol, and you should have no problems with it. The Caltex Vortex Premium Unleaded fuel is very good. That's all I used to run through my 1998 Honda CBR 1000 motorcycle and it loved it. BP Diesel has long been infamous for wrecking seals on fuel pumps. It's amazing the amount of dramas and rubbish we have to put up with when it comes to fuel. On top of all that, we then have to pay top dollar for the privilege. These oil companies import all this cheap sub-standard fuel that Australian vehicles are not designed to run on, but the retail price does not come down. It does look as though greed is good.

Cheers,
NICK.

[Volvo]

??? Is it only the petrol Woolies rips ya off on????.

[mini696]

3 Friends, 5 cars, 1 boat... All used Woolies petrol, all had problems with blocked injectors within weeks of changing from another brand.

I use the discount from coles (shell), and had no problems.

I agree with the above post that BP Ultimate is the way to go (If you can afford it).

Always try to keep an eye on the pumps too. I have twice filled at a local station (not a popular brand), with an almost empty tank. I managed to get 32 litres into a 28 litre tank.

Cheers
Mickk

[skippa]

Here's a tip,

You can buy your fuel from co branded Woolies/Caltex petrol stations. These sites are supplied by Caltex only.

Co Branded sites: Woolies/Caltex supplied by Caltex.
Coles/Shell sites supplied by Shell.

It really is that simple.

I've used Caltex in my cars and boats with no problems at all, this includes purchases from co branded sites.

Cheers,
Tony 8)

[littlejim]

I've been using Woolies petrol here in the act since it first appeared without any problems. I guess that's about 5 years ago or so. Prado , Corolla, lawnmower, whipper snipper and blower still work OK.
A few tank full have gone into the Evinrude (it still works) but it gets mainly Shell ULP from Vincentia.

[NQCairns]

I stopped using it also about 8 months ago, I am glad that other people came to the same conclusion I did.

I heard that in a couple of years Aust will have new fuel standards, somewhere above the 3rd world standard we have now, of coarse it will cost us all a few cents a litre more, I thought we were paying quality fuel prices for this rubbish allready!!
Big business conning us all again, they must have the polies in their pockets, I am sure of it. nq

[cooky]

I use only Caltex (not woolies/caltex) fuel. Either Unleaded or Premium. Same for boat and car. No problems and have been using ONLY caltex for 5 years (fuel card).
I'm not sure if the performance / efficiency gain on premium is only psychological, but I like thinking my car/boat is feeding on the good stuff. I would only use premium about 5-10% of the time though.

[beefaman]

Guys,
By 2006,all you will be able to do in Australia is purchase low sulphur diesel!!
Mobil have recently decided to upgrade Altona refinery to produce low sulphur diesel as well.
As someone has stated previously, only use the co branded sites!! If you purchase fuel from a Non major, you are just asking for trouble!! You might save 4 cpl, and if you put in 80 litres, it is $3.20......think about it for what it is really costing you in the long run!!

[NEWBY]

Go the premium!!!!
ALL I use is premium unleaded. Do a fuel test for yourself. Take the cost of an injector clean every 15000ks or every second service on the boat and add to that poor performance and you will soon see that premium, although costing more at the pump, saves you money... I run a car dealership and all my cars here are fuelled with premium. We will not use standard unleaded. Our workshop makes plenty on the cars owned by people trying to save 4c at the bowser. Every 15to 20 thousand k's the performance drops and in they come for an injector service. We have done the sums and running engines on premium gives better performance and saves you about 2c a litre overall. Makes sense to me. Less hassles and less cost in the long run and better reliability. Let's face it. Nobody likes to be towed in. I have a 150 optimax on my tub and can feel the difference between standard and premium unleaded. I also get a better range from premium. about 10% better range.

[QldKev]

Fuel at Wollies fuel stations depends on which state you are in.

From their web site.
Where does Plus Petrol fuel come from?
Woolworths is able to sell fuel at lower prices. A large percentage of its products in New South Wales and Victoria are sourced from surplus production when available from a wide range of more efficient overseas refineries compared to more costly and outdated refineries in Australia. These lower prices are made even more attractive by the Woolworths' discount offer of at least 2 cents per litre for customers who spend $30 or more at a Supermarket (Woolworths, Safeway) or BIG W stores. The discount can be as much as six cents per litre depending on the amount spent and special offers.
Woolworths sources fuel from a variety of sources including some of the major Australian refineries as well as from overseas. All fuel sold by Woolworths meets or exceeds Australian Standards relating to quality specifications designed to ensure vehicle performance and environmental protection.
BP supplies the majority of fuel sold to Plus Petrol customers in WA, SA, QLD and Tasmania. In NSW and Victoria, the majority is supplied by Trafigura, an international supplier that purchases from available refineries overseas. Trafigura also buys fuel from local suppliers Shell, Caltex and Mobil. Caltex also supplies fuel to a number of Plus Petrol outlets on mainland Australia.

More info at
http://www.woolworthslimited.com.au/news/factsheets/publicdocuments/18-01-2002_a.asp

[darren]

mate who knows what crap we are getting?? ??? By the sound of it they don't even know one day to the next where they are gunna get it from. A bit like buying fruit and veg one day ;D great the next yeah :'(

[flattymattyb]

Be very careful if using shell optimax in carbed 2 strokes unless you have your motor tuned to run it, optimax is a more dense fuel than any other and as such needs changes to jetting to mix more air/volume of fuel if this is not done it will lead to excessive carbon bulid up in cylinders causing major damage. This does effect 4 strokes but not as quickly, EFI seems to be ok as the lambda meter on the exhaust adjusts for the change automatically. I know some guys that race motocross and a few years ago they had to stop using race fuel and go to pump fuel so they did a fair bit of testing on fuels as far as they were concerned Caltex Vortex came up trumps burned cleanest and most power! optimax was deemed poison

Cheers
Matty

[1337]

I swear i have read somewhere in an issue of a BnB on the negative effects on an outboard's cyclinders/pistons from the use of premium fuel??

So is it okay to use premium unleaded fuels on marine outboards?

[DavidT]

Bugger, I thought it was Caltex as well.


Derek



Well Actually, the Caltex Refinery manufacturers the fuel on behalf of Woolworths, and they get too chose how they want it, what additives they want in the fuel and what level of octane they would like in their PULP and ULP.

My Wife's Brother is the Head Chemical Engineer for Shell, and he has explained to me the composition of all fuels from different companies, and I tell you, will be amazed once you know the difference.

Here in Australia, it is best to use either BP or Shell and for Import Petrol Mobile Xion, Mobile imports I think 50% of their fuel and has the BP refinery do the rest, Shell and BP have their own refineries here in Australia and thus better quality is it is engineered for our cars.

Octane levels between Service stations.

Woolworths/7 Eleven/Metro/Neumann/Liberty:

ULP 92-94% Octane
PULP 96% Octane
Usually minimal good additives

Ampol/Caltex:

ULP 94% Octane
PULP 98% Cocaine
Additives vary from station to station

Shell:

ULP Approx 95% Octane
PULP Little over 98% Octane
Additives vary from station to station

BP/Mobil:

ULP 94% Octane
PULP Little over 98% Octane
Additives vary from station to station

Each Company has its own additives, and you will find that all Shell/BP/Mobile leased services some times sacrifice quality for price and the figures may vary a little, how ever directly owned servo, but just under management contract always have the best fuel as they get the complete mix.

Oh I should note that the figures quoted above are as of August last year, my brother in-law tells me that every month it can change as they are always improving and changing chemicals in the fuels so nothing is accurate 100%, but it is close enough.

Premium fuels also make cars Idle rougher due to the larger ignite from the higher levels of octane, and the more mixed in chemicals. I have no clue what effect it would have on a Marine engine, but generally with cars it gives better fuel consumptions, and better burning and less gas emissions, and I have been told it is not a good idea to mix PULP with 2 Stroke oil as it can change the composition of the chemicals and pretty much make the additives null-void, unless how ever the 2 stroke oil specifically states that it is designed for premium, how ever in Australia we don't have that here yet.

Any way, that's my advice, I would take it as gospel as I don't often catch up with my brother In-law, he is either in Holland at shells head office or in Singapore, so it is getting harder to get the latest info.

Hope it helps,

Cheers,

David.

(PS) You are also by law allowed to request what chemicals, and what levels of octaine are in the fuel if you request it, but you must ring up their head offices in Australia to do this :) Oha nd excuse my spelling and grammer :)

[jimbo59]

when i brought my 225/4s yamy they said not to run it on premium does any one use premium in their four strokes ihave been using woolies and to be honest i havnt had a problem

[PinHead]

The compression ratio of your motor dictates which octane rated fuel you should use.

[adriancorrea]

Octane levels between Service stations.

Ampol/Caltex:

ULP 94% Octane
PULP 98% Cocaine
Additives vary from station to station
[/quote]


Is this 98% Cocaine at Ampol/Caltex still at 94 cent a litre
Off too get some of this stuff lol

Just kidding
I dont chase the cheaper fuel just whats on offer on the way to the ramp, but have heard that woolies and the others use cheaper fuels thus been able to give the discounts.
But I will be looking into it after reading this post.

Tight Lines
Adrian

[DavidT]

Octane levels between Service stations.

Ampol/Caltex:

ULP 94% Octane
PULP 98% Cocaine
Additives vary from station to station Is this 98% Cocaine at Ampol/Caltex still at 94 cent a litre
Off too get some of this stuff lol

Just kidding
I dont chase the cheaper fuel just whats on offer on the way to the ramp, but have heard that woolies and the others use cheaper fuels thus been able to give the discounts.
But I will be looking into it after reading this post.

Tight Lines
Adrian


Hi Adrain,

I dont chase the cheapest either, i live in Birkdale and i have BP on one side and Shell on the other, i use BP when going to the wello ramp and Shell when going to the Thornside Boat ramp.

To be honest, i dont know a great deal about fuels only just what i am told, and as far as i can see it, it is more of an each to his own thing, my fav are BP and Shell i dont seem to have any troubles with their Premium fuels or their Standard Unleaded, and i only use Premium for me car. Caltex Fuel on 4 occassions now leaves and awful smell when burnt, and according to my wife a smell that reminds here of rotten boiled eggs (I have no clue what so ever what rotten boiled eggs smell like so dont ask me), but i must say the smell is horrible and that is on 3 different fill up at different servos's, and i dont use Mobile cause there are none around my area and they are usualy way more expensive to everyone else.

My 2/c

Cheers,

David.

[klyons]

Well Actually, the Caltex Refinery manufacturers the fuel on behalf of Woolworths, and they get too chose how they want it, what additives they want in the fuel and what level of octane they would like in their PULP and ULP.

My Wife's Brother is the Head Chemical Engineer for Shell, and he has explained to me the composition of all fuels from different companies, and I tell you, will be amazed once you know the difference.

Here in Australia, it is best to use either BP or Shell and for Import Petrol Mobile Xion, Mobile imports I think 50% of their fuel and has the BP refinery do the rest, Shell and BP have their own refineries here in Australia and thus better quality is it is engineered for our cars.




You acknowledge Caltex has a refinery

'Wife's Brother is the Head Chemical Engineer for Shell,'

An unbiased opinion?

What happened to the Caltex refinery and don't they care like BP/Shell and isn't their fuel better because it's made in Australia too. Directly across the Brisbane river actually.


Kev

ps I have no affiliation with any fuel company and buy fuel from just about anywhere.(just thought this post somewhat odd)

[DavidT]

You acknowledge Caltex has a refinery

'Wife's Brother is the Head Chemical Engineer for Shell,'

An unbiased opinion?

What happened to the Caltex refinery and don't they care like BP/Shell and isn't their fuel better because it's made in Australia too. Directly across the Brisbane river actually.


Kev

ps I have no affiliation with any fuel company and buy fuel from just about anywhere.(just thought this post somewhat odd)




Hmm Good point Kev, i thought the same thing myself, but back when i was doing security 6 years ago at their gates, it was just a processing and storage plant, there are not many refineries in Australia that i am aware of (But will stand corrected if someone knows more then my very little).

And i am quite unbiased as i dont promote Shell as i like both Shell and BP fuels :)

Actualy you will find that Here in Australia there is one major refinary that make fuels for all the majors, they basicly just give them all the info they need and away they go cooking it up, the other small refineries process little fuel and more of the oils and other small bits and peices :)

And i am much like yourself, i buy from whom ever is closest to me when i need fuel, but i generaly try and buy from the local guys to support them as most of the ones here near birkdale are non company owned.

Cheers,

David.

[PinHead]

David...the rotten egg smell is more than likely Hydrogen Sulfide ..a by product of the combustion of unleaded fuel. I would be having the car checked..could be an ignition fault or some other engine fault..not the fuel.

[DavidT]

David...the rotten egg smell is more than likely Hydrogen Sulfide ..a by product of the combustion of unleaded fuel. I would be having the car checked..could be an ignition fault or some other engine fault..not the fuel.


WOW lukily i am getting the car serviced next week, i will have them check that out, i appreciate you letting me know that, it could avert problems with the Korean beast :)

Cheers,

David.

[EDIT] It still doesnt explain though why it doesnt do it with other brands, but none-the-less i will get it checked out, but i must say you got me really thinking hard about this now, i cant have teh car break down, the boat is too heavy to carry to the ramp ???

[klyons]

DavidT

A refinery is a processing and storage plant ;D

They have a lot of crude oil, inc a pipeline from Moonie that caused a bit of a problem not that long age. IIRC their web site refers to a refinery. Perhaps they dont refine petrol, just oils? ???

Kev

[hicksy]

bignick,
After reading all these posts I would think twice about using those fuel dockets you have.
Hicksy

[DavidT]

DavidT

A refinery is a processing and storage plant ;D

They have a lot of crude oil, inc a pipeline from Moonie that caused a bit of a problem not that long age. IIRC their web site refers to a refinery. Perhaps they dont refine petrol, just oils? ???

Kev

Kwel your right, so much has changed since working at the gate there yers ago, they refine oil, and process the incoming fuel from over seas, i was even told they even refine some of their own fuel there now, the world is an ever changing place.

Cheers,

David.

[Craftsman]

When Coles were negotiating with Shell the CEO of Woolies made numerous claims that they were unworried. As WW sourced cheaper fuel from Asia they could afford to sell at a 6c per litre discount, Coles' Shell deal meant they could only afford 4c before they started losing money.
However the strength of the Coles deal lay in the fact that there were a hell of alot more Shell outlets than WW ones. WW quickly raced to do a deal with Caltex to match the Coles/Shell outlets. So I'd say at the co-branded WW/Caltex stores they've the same agreement as Coles/Shell, ie 4c only. But at WW only, cheaper fuel supplied, outlets they're still making that 2c per litre extra.
I've had no problems with WW fuel but we shop at Bilo so use Shell fuel most of the time anyway.

As for the general question of whether we're shafted by supermarkets? Yes we are. We were buying 3L milk at Bilo for $3.30, a new Aldi opened across the road and what do you know, suddenly the price for 3L of milk drops by 50c. Same thing happened with bread, dropped 40c per loaf.
Competition is a good thing.