time for some tuna knowledge

[johhno]

okay guys, a lot of us have been catching these longies for quite a few years now, and we're all pretty much onto the techniques once we find them ( approach, flies, surface and deep, got the lines sorted, etc etc). well, okay, scott's way out in front, but you know what i mean.

most days if they're there, there's not much of a problem to get onto them. but the big IF is the IF THEY'RE THERE! now take this week. thursday at inskip, from poona down to the bar, not a tuna in sight all day. same on friday. then saturday morning, still the same winds, the same sky, water temp 20 and the same, there's longies popping up at the bar (where we got onto them). they stayed around for an hour or so and then disappeared. then sunday, not a sign of them. same today. dead as a doornail. so what gives? what makes these guys come and go? do they come and go, or just come on and off the bite? do they actually live out at sea and come in close each day? do they migrate up and down the coast? do some migrate and some hang around in one spot? are they really tuned to the moon? or to the strength and speed of the tide? there were no birds around most of the days, except the day they showed up. is it all dependant on where the bait schools are? i don't think so because inskip was loaded with bait on the thursday and friday...and LOTS of birds were working it. no tuna at all on the sounder...just bait. or is it the wind? obviously a lot of these things might be at work.

so i'm wondering what we all know, and is it time to have a bit of a session on all this. would be nice to maybe have a kind of workshop..get a few together and see if we can put some ideas together. one day, some jerk is going to come up with one or other hair-brained scheme which will threaten the great longtail fishery around here, and unless we all know a bit about what makes it tick, we mightn't even see the threat for what it is.

i know we're a secretive lot, but it just seems a pity to have all this knowledge and not much put together on it. maybe you've all talked this over here before and i just wasn't around for it. when you think of all the stuff in print on where and how trout live and feed, we've hardy anything on the tuna

i've been fishing inskip now for about three years most weekends, so i have a fair idea of where to look, but the timing of when the come and go is still a bit of a mystery.

what do you all think?

[thunnus]

it was much the same in the bay on the weekend johnno - LOTS of bait a fair few birds but very little longtail activity. Also why do the macs hang around and not the longtails...ie there are heaps and heaps of macs up at m'bah at the moment but very very few longtails - whats the go there? maybe we should all start taking note of water temp, maybe that has something to do with it. i do believe that they migrate, north to south in my opinion but once they reach the gold coast, where do they go? we all know is the really big ones turn up in southern NSW but why doest the fishery south of the goldy fish like moreton bay/bribie/m'bah/sandy straights/hearvy bay?

hopefully the study that the CSIRO is doing on inshore tunas will give us all a better idea but its going to be a long time till we all see the results from that.

food for thought anyway..........

cheers, Justin

[Wesley_Pang]

John,

Tuna are where you find them. Finding them is the hardest part of the equation. Getting them to eat a fly is the next problem. Spending time on the water and systematically covering an area until you see signs of them.

Who knows why, when and where they suddenly bust up.

A small group of us have been fishing Peel Island for the last month. Not many Longtails, but enough to keep up coming back. Heaps of bait. It was just a matter of keeping your eyes open and been patient. For a days fishing the tuna would feed(what we could see) for maybe 3-4 sessions of 10-20 minutes. What made them feed at those times I don't know. Tide related, moon phase or the fish were simply hunger.

Not a lot is known about Longtail Tuna. I was interested in asssisting a guy from CSIRO in his research. It would be interesting to radio tag a fish to see what they get up to.

Had a chat with Scott last weekend. He mention something about the moon.

I guess the uncertainty of Tuna fishing is what keeps us coming back.

Wes

[thunnus]

wes - what scotty was talking about it the peak moon times, they are in that anglers algamac that you can get down at the newsagent, paul dolan is another that swears by them. Maybe thats worth a look.

cheers, Justin

[Matt]

I remember talking to Harro probably more than a year ago and he was planning a big write up on his inshore tuna theories. Did anyone ever see that? I can't exactly recall so don't quote me, but remember him mentioning things like tide playing a major part in particular when considering where to fish?? Harro?

Matt.

[Scott_Matthews]

What do ya want to know Johnno, no secrets here.
Scott.

[Voltzy]

Hey Scott,

Do you reckon boat noise comes into the equation much? Are your getting more shots in your southwind setup compared to the bermuda?

Johnno, I was wondering the same thing about tuna movements. I guess there is no substitute for putting in the kilometres and time on the water. 80km+ per day unless you've found some.

Am I the only one who is a bit suss of this CSIRO study? I'd love to know more about the biology of them, but I am a bit worried that any knowledge may eventually be used as a basis for a commercial fishery. SAFCOL already claim to use northern bluefin, or tongol tuna (longtails)- any clues on the wheres and hows that they are collected? the can says "product of thailand"..

Voltzy

[johhno]

thanks guys. this is what i'm thinking. let's assume we all know how to catch a longie now. but compared with other fisheries, it's much harder to predict when and where they'll be. doesn't really bother me if they're up for a second or on the chew all day. i've learnt how to catch them either way.

but i'd love to know if there's some system to their appearance or not. i mean trout and flathead and whiting and bream...you know when and how to find them. none of those are pelagics though.

is this the clue? pelagics simply roam around a lot, and are not always predictable about when and where they'll be? i've never fished for pelagics before starting flyfishing, so i have no idea what mackerel fisherman, etc do.

up in the pacific islands where i go each year, there is a place out on the ocean where there are underwater mountains below and there are always tuna around. it's 30 miles or so away from the island, and though obviously the fish roam around out there, you can still head in roughly the right direction and always find them. guaranteed. but then close in to the island (within 1 or 2 miles), you can get schools some days and others not. what brings them in close to the island? i don't know.

i have the feeling that maybe way off the coast here it might be similar. i would love to find out more from the tuna professionals about where and how they go. and whether what we see here along the coast and in the bays is in any way related to what goes on out there. you know what i mean?

is perhaps the best thing to rely on simply each other's reports of where they've been seen. or is it possible to be a bit more knowledgable than that? that's what i'm wondering. would be interested if harro's stuff was ever published. but a lot of it is probably about catching them, which i'm not so interested in. trouble with relying on reports is they can be on one day and gone the next.

but also, it just seems there's quite a few of us, and it seemed that it might be nice to see if all the knowledge put together might reveal something. i've started logging all my catches on the gps, places and dates, to see if there's a pattern

[johhno]

i'm very sus of the csiro study

[mackmauler]

is this the clue? pelagics simply roam around a lot, and are not always predictable about when and where they'll be? i've never fished for pelagics before starting flyfishing, so i have no idea what mackerel fisherman, etc do.



John, you should take a look at Peter Pakulas writings about ocean systems etc on his website.
Rob

[ferralflyer]

WEll,to help you guys out a bit MACS have higher body temp by 20degs there for more inclined to hang around when temps drop and if the food chain is still abundent.water temp is vitel,next tuna feed at different depths,its not all sight fishen.Think about it,only 1to2 feet of water is fished,this is only 2foot into the first staticsphere ,top,middle,bottom,the yanks fish all 3,were missing out.Scotty has a quite boat that hepls,tuna hate some noise,tolerate some,tuna are tuned to freqencies,tuna boat have special props.Tinies,under foor fuel tanks,chines on sides of boats make bad noise,its only taken the last part of last season this to get a handle on things,csiro wont help you catch,I read the right mags and still have the hunting gene from the good old pro days,its not rocket science after all.[smiley=devilish.gif],P.S tuna see well and they also see blue.blue.blue and blue,and last thought for you all why wear a blue shirt to match the sky if the bottom and sides of boat dont look like the sky. [smiley=devilish.gif] [smiley=devilish.gif]

[johhno]

thanks rob, i'll check it out

[thunnus]

johnno re: pelagics, the only other spiecies i have knowledge on is billfish and there are two factors that contribute to there caputre (or even just finding them) and that is water temp and bait. They relate to each other as well, without the right temp (about 24o and above) you dont get good concentrations of bait and in turn no billies. Yes as you say with bottem feature is another "holding station" and once the temp is right the bait will stay in that area and hence so will the fish.

noise is an interesting thing, the big tuna (y'fin around these parts) are somewhat interested (just as the billfish are) in the sound of the large game boats, however they are more inclined to hit the lures running on the outriggers and shotguns, rather than screaming in and eating the flat lines, maybe it is that they still feel vunerable, unlike a big blue or black that will just about eat a lure sitting on top of the transom. so taking this into consideration, the smaller inshore tuna's would feel very unsafe with any large noisey "thing" coming towards them. maybe this is why on some given days it is easier to approch and cast at longies (on average bigger fish)then macs? who knows?

Good luck getting the info out of the pro's concerning tuna wide of the SEQ coast, the m'bah longliners #*%ed up that fishery a long time ago as well as wipeing out a good portion of the broardbill swordfish at the same time. Sometimes in good days out wide you will get to see the awesome sites of HUGE schools of yellowfin tuna between 20-60kg busting up all day long (theres a task for ya scotty, only another 50kms east of cape moreton!). its an unreal site and casting a fly in there would be something speciel, if not just plain crazy.

pelagics are very prodictable, its there nature to repeat a particular pattern, just some speices (billfish and spaniards in particular) have a great following and have been documented over a long period, maybe its time we all logged things like water temp, wind, tide, moon and did a little research our selfs.

cheers, Justin

[Scott_Matthews]

Voltzy,
I am definately getting more shots at wary fish in the new rig, i think mostly because of the 4 stroke. I still find that a fast change in motor pitch is the key, the amount of noise is not really the be all and end all it's really just soft driving.Ever driven past a school of feeding fish up on the plane and looked back to see them continue feeding, no change in motor pitch?
Johnno
As far as i know SAFCOL purseins juvenille lontails in the spawning grounds off s/e asia. In all honesty it's probably better netting the young fish rather than adult brood stock, not that that's any justification.
Longtails seem to be fairly predictable when logged info is studied. I have checked last years info compared to this years and there isn't much difference only the numbers, although last year was a good season.Logging capture is the only way to go if you want to learn anything. Watch the major and minor periods of the moon and log that. SPOOKY stuff
Justin
Big yellowfin fin on fly, the ultimate dream, don't step up to the plate if youre not gonna bat is what i say. I'm thinking about going down to Port Lincoln to chase 60kg Southerns, reckon thatd be a buzz.

[johhno]

scottie, justin,
can't resist posting my biggest tuna on fly caught up in kiribati three years ago now. what's on the floor was the day's catch, and the trevally were a pretty good size. just dwarfed by the tuna. i have to bring everything i catch back home up there because it's dinner for them all. the tuna was about 35 kilos i think. but not great fun to catch actually. it just went straight down till i was almost out of backing, then i just had to slowly wind it up. but it's nice to have got one. cameron and i have got a few smaller ones up there too, but it's hard to get they guys on the boats to stop trolling long enough to get a cast out.

[johhno]

peter and i nabbed a couple of metre plus longtails out of the shallows up at inskip this morning...lovely fish

[Voltzy]

Well Johnno, I'm sure everyone is thinking it, but thats a bloody nice yellowfin tuna on fly!! [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] I bet you were sore after that.

Voltz

[Maxg]

For the record tuna are blue/green dichromats they see blue green colours. Which means they aren't seeing red, or anything but mixtures of blue and green. Effectivly this is a sort of blue grey scale which means that bright flies, like fluoro white or chartruse are pretty good.
If you want to find out what kind of world they live in, wrap a blue hunk of plasyic over your eyes and look at a really good flower garden. Pretty drab view.
But they do have cones, for colour and rods, for grey scale in their eye.
Most pelagics are blue/green dichromats, like MahiMahi, etc.
Thats not a bad tunny at all, on a fly outfit. max

[Maxg]

PS, if tuna have selective hearing, to which frequencies are they sensitive. They, like ALL fishes have a averaging hearing system, like humans, and they hear a hell of a lot of noises. Mind you they also have a lateral line which is sensitive to very low frequencies, more like pressure changes than sound. A boat on the surface is a black blob as far as fishes looking up at it are concerned, since it is in contrast against the light source, the water surface, which is why baitfish bolt under boats to hide in the black blob. The bottom colour is irrelevant.
If you knew what the frequencies were it would be a simple matter to generate the right sounds and have tunny leaping all over your boat. If you want a tranducer capable of producing a wind range of sound underwater, I've got one going spare, like $300 cash. Ex a very specialised sound system from the 80's designed to attract tunny and do many other funny things.
All you need to drive it is a amplifier and a source of sound. Its a pretty low impedance though. Also have a hydrophone designed to hear sounds underwater. Cheers Max

[Dr_Shane_Griffiths]

G'day All,

Just thought I'd post a message considering I am the guy running the CSIRO inshore tuna project that so many people are "a little suspect of".

To set the record straight, my work has no intention of developing a commercial fishery for longtail tuna. This has been stated clearly in every presentation that I have given at flyfishing club meetings in SE Qld. On the topic of commercial fishing for longtails, they are not a cost effective target in Australia, due to their behaviour and meat quality compared to other tunas.

I'd also like to quash roumours that the new longline processing plant in Brisbane was NOT built to serve a dedicated longtail tuna fishery in Moreton Bay. As far as canned tuna goes, those who attended my seminars would have heard me explain that no Australian longtail tuna are used for canning, particularly for SAFCOL. Although SAFCOL is an Australian company, I have been informed by the company's reps that it imports 100% of its longtail from Thailand, which is recieved already canned! By the way the catch is nearly exclusively comprised of juveniles.

The aim of the study is to know more about the biology and ecology of inshore tunas and understand exactly what role they play in the ecosystem. Since this study is a pilot with a very tiny budget it's important that this study gets some results to convince funding agencies that a more comprehensive study is required. This is where satellite tagging and really cool stuff can be undertaken with more $$$.

As many of you guys know, I've been showing up to tuna fly comps and fly fishing club meetings for a while now and although people want us to find the answers, noone is willing to help with our work. All we ask for is each person at some stage to donate 1 fish to us. I personally provide a 24hr/7days pick up service to anyone who wants to contribute. I also offer prizes of t-shirts and original illustrations by acclimed fish artist Bernard Yau (see his work in Modern Fishing), and the cost to you is zero. (By the way those people who have already contributed will recieve their award when they become available). I understand that most flyfishers are strictly catch and release but what happens to those tail-wrapped fish? The response to our work has been really dissapointing so far, I have actually been forced to catch most tuna myself, much to the disgust of onlooking flyfishers. However, I do thank those guys from the Hervey Bay Tuna comp who donated a few fish.

Basically, you guys have nothing to be "suspect" of. We are merely studying species that we know nothing about. We have to start some time. If stocks of these species crashed for some reason prior to doing research, then we are likely to be blamed for not acting quickly enough. Seems like a catch 22. I hope some of you realise that our work can help ensure the long-term sustainability of this resource that so many of you depend on for enjoyment. Again I thank anyone who has participated and I encourage everyone to participate. Feel free to contact me for any details on 07 3826 7364 or email shane.griffiths@csiro.au

Regards,

Shane.

[lordy]

Are you after dead fish or live fish for tracking? Tell us a little more about the research.

[Doctor_Bait]

Can someone explain to me what damage could be done by helping out the CSIRO? Do you think that Greenseas or SAFCOL are not aware of the presence of tuna in Moreton Bay? I don't understand the suspicion.

If you do have questions then try emailing Shane and asking them. There's a post on this forum called "Toona Research" you can read that and I'll quote Shane from it saying Our interest in these species IS NOT for commercial fisheries benefit and also We are primarily interested in ensuring the sustainability of all fish stocks
The research needs to be done and the CSIRO is the best organisation to do it. By helping Shane out, you'll hopefully be helping the fishery.

As a footnote, yes I do know Shane but I'm no parrot and these are my own views.

[Jack_Lives_Here]

Tell you why Dr Bait - from a previous experience with a so called "research / study" last year, I and many others that got stung, certainly won't be in any hurry to help out on another "project", no matter how good the cause.
The research on the other project was supposedly to monitor species growth etc etc since the bans on netting in that area. The Federal Govt. said thanks for that, we'll have that and are now using it against the very rec fishos that gathered the data in the first place [smiley=furious2.gif] [smiley=furious2.gif]
What's to stop the same happening with this project????????????????????????????????????????

I'm sure Shane has been on the level with his intended outcomes BUT that data once gathered is there for the taking from higher authorities, to use how they wish - ISN"T IT???

[Doctor_Bait]

I can't guarantee that the findings from this study wont be used in the same way.
I don't like taking fish and I have alot of admiration for tuna. I think that all of us want the tuna to always be here, but I also understand that we can't protect a species we realistically know little about.

[Jack_Lives_Here]

Getting on and giving people a spray won't do the project an ounce of good either. >:( >:( >:(