Same old argument,,,,,,,,

[Quinny69]

Its the same old "Is this a fly" story, and some of us problly know each others answers already but just treat it like a poll, yes and no answers will be fine. WOULD YOU USE YOUR FLYROD TO CAST/FISH THIS?. Its called the Gummyminnow and weighs more than your avarage Bream plastic (lead inside body) Its the"fly thing"on top, the 1 on the bottom is a Joe Bladose Crease Fly which has become my fave Mack tuna fly this week, yet I wouldnt think of FlyFishing with the top 1. Let me know your thaughts. Quinny. PS Wes ,this shape is much better.It would look excactally like a Manns Sluggo. Pic by Tom Earnhard.

[duckbill]

As far as I am concerned if it is built onto a hook then I will cast it, while if it is just threaded onto a hook then I won't. But I am not too fussy, the main thing is to catch fish!!! :o

[Jack_Lives_Here]

NO

[Wesley_Pang]

Quinny,

The results speak for themselves.

I've hooked 5 Longtails, 3 landed, 1 sharked, 1 lost on Blane Chocklet's Gummy Minnow.

1st Longtail on Gummy Minnow
http://members.optusnet.com.au/wpang/Images/gummy_lt.jpg

1st Longtail on GLX Crosscurrent using gummy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/wpang/Images/gummy_lt_cc.jpg


One of a handful of Mac Tuna to fall for the Gummy Minnow
http://members.optusnet.com.au/wpang/Images/gummy_mac.jpg

Keen to try gummy on an Big Shark Bay Longtail.

Wes

[rlbgfish173]

If you can cast it with a fly rod and it catches fish, it must be a FLY. :)

[Quinny69]

I could cast a Micro Mullet on a #10 or a live baitfish for that matter(and it would be deadly too), they shure aint flies,,,We all know how deadly soft plastics are,,, but there "soft plastics"remember........Think of how fast you can cast a spin rod, why not use it for lures? Doesnt anyone have morals any more? :-X MQ

[johhno]

somehow i think it boils down to the issue of art and craft. if it's handmade, and the only added weight is to position the fly in the water, then it's going to feel good, right and proper. otherwise we might all end up breeding our own goldfish for livebaiting ;)

[Quinny69]

Johno, by the way,,Thats a thumper Goldie ,,, Had a couple of goes at em on the Hervey flats a lil while ago.Didnt land 1 but had some amazing sesions :o. there a top fish. Wes, did that Crease fly lil mack pic turn out,nice photoagphy, I tottally admit IT(the Gumby minnow) works, :-X,just 1 of the many personal aspets of the game. MQ

[flytime]

NO

[Wesley_Pang]

Guys,

Here the tying instruction for the Gummy Minnow.
http://www.orvis.com/detail.asp?subject=506&index=12&dir_id=758&cat_id=&group_id=

And home of Sili-skin
http://www.locofoam.com/sili_skin.htm

Wes

[Scott_Mitchell]

This is a personal debate - and should be ;)

If you feel happy with what ever is on the end of your line and your having fun - then do it.I've seen one forum member add fresh bait to his fly ;D

I have also arranged to get some of these new products from Loco foam - including the sili-skin for gummies - should have stock by end of next month ;)

Regards Scotto

[duckbill]

Wes,

By looking at the photo I couldn't imagine it being a fly... Thought it was just another soft plastic. But it is constructed, so I would definitely use it. Where can I get the sili-skin from?

[MartinF]

Saw some of these tied by Chris Beech at the The Fishingshow in Sydney. The thing that struck me was, while they looked cool, they were far more rigid than a soft plastic of the same size.

Wes and others that have fished them, how much action did they have in the water? Also, I hear this material is expensive. Do you think it gives that much more advantage over, say, a surf candy to justify that cost?

Thanks

[harryhoy]

Post removed at the request of the Member

[Wesley_Pang]

Guys,

The Gummy Minnow doesn't have as much action as a squidgie. The lead wrap gives it a clouser type action.

I fish it fairly slow, to maximise the time in the "strike" zone. I like to have it sink down like a wounded baitfish. The do-nothing retrieve is deadly, so you can cast straight in front of the boat while its still moving.

Scotto is getting some material, but if you need them in a hurry try saltwaterflies.com

I think its worth it, because I'm hooked up to fish ;D

Wes

[team_mongo]

Wes put me down for a couple, they look good. Good enuf to get me back into fly fishing ;D

[flytime]

Hi Wes,
Thought it was a soft plastic also! Hard to tell in the photo,but yes if you have to tie it up yes i would use it. How long do they last for in the mouth of a mack tuna. Do they tear easily ?
Regards Steve :)

[Quinny69]

You dont tie them, you just stick them too the hook after wraping half oz of lead wire around the shank. No thread needed...You cant use them for persuing (IGFA FLY)records eather .MQ

[Wesley_Pang]

Quinny,

Why aren't Gummies IGFA legal?

"The lure must be a recognised type of artifical fly, which includes streamer, bucktail, tube fly, wet fly, dry fly, nymph, popper and bug. The use of any other type of lure or natural bait, either singularly or attached to the fly, is expressly prohibited. The fact that a lure can be cast with a fly rod is not evidence in itself that it fits the description of a fly. The use of any lure designed to entangle or foul hook a fish is prohibited. No scent, either natural or artifical is allowed on flies. The use of scented material in a fly is prohibited."

Its not scented.

IGFA makes no mention on the type of materials used in a "fly".

IGFA Rules

http://www.igfa.org/rulebook/rules.pdf

Wes

[Quinny69]

Read it again Wes,,,,,,,,. Like Morsie said once "There needs to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere", Im not spewing forth some personal grudge, As the rules say.... (not that I fish line classes in the blue).. Remember the Jelly Belly Vampire, The bream comp guys loved it but it was a LURE and they used it on spin gear,makes presenting it a breeze. MQ

[Maxg]

Having read the instructions yep it qualifies as a fly and although its easier to use a squidgie, it should work very well.
That siliskin sounds like a wizz stuff. Probably a million buks an acre.
Answer yes to both, and you could try it on a Eagle Claw EC416 jug hook. Aktually, flies are just lures, no more than that, whether its a dry on a stream or a think like a silish=kin widgie. If you cant get you head around that bit of philosophy then you need a shrink.
Fly fishing is just another way of catching fish on lures. Max

[harryhoy]

Post removed at the request of the Member

[Maxg]

Truth is of course stranger than fiction. But remember that fly fishing probably originated when some old human type weilding a spear watched a bird, a Heron, picking insects off trees and bushes and dropping them into streams to bring fish to the lunch table. That old time bloke probably did much the same to bring fish to the spear. It probably evolved from there over the millennia. It isn't something mythical, or mysterious, or even fancy and a fly is a lure, nothing more or less. And a lure is something designed to fool fish. But its all really about lunch. The fishes, and yours. so who the hell really cares. And sarcasm is a low form of wit, I think. Max

[harryhoy]

You got me wrong Max - no sarcasm there at all. I have the utmost respect for you and what you have done for flyfishing in this country. I was hoping you might post some pics from your days fishing Quobba and Garth's (your own) Rock (have I got the right maxg??). That one of you with a cobia over each knee is a ripper. Articles from you and guys like Hal Harvey, Harro, Peter Morse, etc sowed the seed.

You do much fishing these days? If so, I would love to hear about it.

Also, I met a guy in Mackay in a tackle shop that said he fished with you a lot during those early days but can't remember his name. He had some pics of you up on his wall and I talked to him about flyfishing for hours. He said you were a nice bloke, always willing to help out a fellow flyfisher, so once again I wasn't being sarcastic and sorry you took it that way.

I would like to see you post some info about how you started flyfishing. I think it would be interesting to blokes new to flyfishing or blokes that don't quite know how flyfishing started in Australia. I hope you might post some info regarding your ealry days and some of the guys you fished with in WA.

[sir_noelus]

First reaction is NO. Then I question myself. 10 or 11 trips to the Tongariro in NZ, using weighted flies to sink in such fast water isn't much different eh? I think a realistic definition of an answer to 'Same old Question' , and one I can certainly live with is....If it can be cast off a rod and you do not need the weight of a fly line to get it there, IT IS NOT A FLY. Conversly, if you must have a fly line to cast it, it is a fly. We tie trout flies with all sorts of materials like mylar and the result is a true, lure looking fish. But you cannot cast it without a fly line, so I call it a fly. Hope that answers at least some questions. Noel

[Maxg]

Matt The guy is obviously Geoff Clarke, quite a character, on a round Oz trip he got to Carnarvon and wanted to catch a shark mackerel on 3lb line. Never did do it, but he'ss a hell of a nice guy. He and Ron Pearson hit it of famously, Great times those. Yep Ross Cusack called that rock at Quobba Garths Rock, but its really anybodies rock. Fab casting platform. I'm trying to get back there for a last hurrah. Want to use my double handers off it, just for fun. I'm not sure current anglers want to know about yesterday, but they keep on rediscovering things that we rediscovered and people before us did as well. Pic is Geoff in his hey days.

[andy_thomsen]

Hi All,

I agree with Johno. Fly's are defined as being hand made and not exact copies. It all depends on how much of a purist or fishing slut you are!! No offence intened here by the way. But you may aswell use a soft plastic, it ain't a fly....

I know a guy that drags a deep diving lure around in a float tube. If you timed it right you could probably cast it too, but that's not fly fishing.

An old gentleman in Miami once had a go at me for buying one of his flies that had bead chain eye's on it, in his words, "that's not a fly".

If you don't feel guilty using it, it's alright for you.

[harryhoy]

Max - when you going to Quobba? I want to make the pilgrimage one day - it is an oz flyfishing Mecca. A mate of mine has fished the area plenty of times and raves about the fishing. Please post some more pics.

[big-barra]

I wouldn't use it on a fly rod. It looks like it belongs on a spin rod!!!! ???

barra

[Maxg]

Well truthfully if you can't get you head around the fact that the "fly" is a lure, there is something wrong. Simply because anything that is designed to attarct things with the end result that you capture or kill them, is a lure. So fly's are technically lures, because they are designed to fool fish, whatever fish it might be or where it resides matters not
Anyway it really doesn't matter because everyone has their own opinion, and thats what counts. Max

[Maxg]

By the way, the original Macedonian flies were not cast, nor were Juliana Berners flies, or any other flies until the 18th century when the poms or somebody invented casting lines. Flies were dapped on the surface on the end of a short line on a very long rod, which, if the fish was large and boysterous was simply dropped on the water to act as a load.
All these "fly is not a fly unless" theoriues are modern bull dust generated by the Dry fly purists in what are really modern times. I have done some serious research on this subject and flies were used in salt water in 50bc and even before that time. And they did not have casting lines then, nor reels nor runners. So tradition says a fly is just another lure, just what the Heron used before men existed. And they used real insects, twigs, seeds, and their own feathers to fool fish. A green Backed heron is known to use 5 different baits if there are 5 different species of fish in a waterway. They are not dumb those Herons.
Man is just a copiest, of a bird. Max

[Maxg]

And I forgit this bit. In 1400 in Bavaria there wre 50 known fly patterns and they used them to catch trout, tench, carp and perch. And they also caught catfish, very smart guys those Germans. Max