VHF or 27 Mhz or? [Archive] - Ausfish fishing Australia, Australian Angling Forums

Kerry

23-12-2003, 09:10 AM

DSC is basically a system, which automates distress alerts and other calling controls and is just one part of the much more complex (and expensive) GMDSS (Global Maritime Distress and Safety System).

GMDSS is an international requirement (since 1999) of all SOLAS ships.

Basically all traditional coast stations will close and when fully implemented there will be no requirement for anybody to physically monitor a listening watch on a radio. Bit scary this one especially considering the 99.8% false alert statistics.

DSC is available on HF in Oz but VHF still appears to have a few issues.

As for which radio? Certainly VHF over 27 mHZ and the user of a VHF must have an operator's certificate.

For inland waterways/dams etc as a safety device one might even consider UHF, as just about every property owner uses UHF in everything from the bike to the tractor.
#
Cheers, Kerry.

basserman

23-12-2003, 10:17 AM

i know for down my way 27meg is the main choise but like many boats nowday if you can fit it why not get both vhf for rescue and loger distances and 27meg for club or to chat to mates

Big_Kev

23-12-2003, 02:41 PM

Gary if you are talking about Moreton bay then the 27Mhz will certainly be enough for the job at the moment, and there is still plenty of users around.(probably more so than VHF in the bay)
But if I was to buy a new radio I would be going for the VHF.
Cheers Kev.

bungie

23-12-2003, 05:15 PM

How would VHF go around jacobs well and out to the pin ??

Kerry

23-12-2003, 05:34 PM

How would VHF go around jacobs well and out to the pin ??

This is where VHF, and the supporting repeater network has it all over 27mHZ, especially considering the height of some of the repeaters.

CH 80 is on North Stradbroke at Lighthouse Point Lookout and CH 82 on Yellowwood Hill, Beenleigh, so jacobs well to the pin and well and truely beyond shouldn't be a problem at all.

Cheers, Kerry.

adrian

28-12-2003, 03:56 AM

i had 27megs untill it blew up and then put vhf on board .some of the areas where updating the weather which saved my hide as trips were planned but cancelled due to the info given the trip where a long way out might have gone out if not for these reports as the weather reports on telly were different

anzac

Jeremy

28-12-2003, 04:13 AM

Go the VHF for quality of signal and better distances. A basic VHF radio will cost about $350 and an aerial about $100. The operators course cost me $140, but you can find them cheaper.

Jeremy

gif

28-12-2003, 06:17 AM

VHF must have an operator's certificate.

Thanks for all the great advice everyone # - and especially Kerry.

VHF operators certificate # - any idea what that involves, who administers or a web site where I could read up about this?

A related question:Monitoring on freshwater: #

- obviously no VMR, but not intended as a silly question. #Is there any "safety listen" in the world of freshwater?

cheers
Gary

webby

28-12-2003, 06:29 AM

Hi #Re the vhf licence, wont say where it came from, but not to far down the track, the word is that you will not need a licence to operate vhf. #The reason is that a majority of boaties with vhf dont have licences these days, and enforcing it would be a logistical nightmare.
As for the fresh scence radio, verbal communications is your only option, and even then 99% of fishos wouldnt do this, on a guess most of the fresh scence rigs would not have a radio on board.
I suppose with vhf you could with the height of most impoundments try logging on with one of the coastal vmr,s , but you'd most likely stun them into thinking you were pulling there legsn ;D
regards

damons33

28-12-2003, 07:57 AM

i was the guy that made point of the safety argument of not licencing vhf at the boat show when ever the govenment radio guys do a talk(bit of a rent a crowd man!greenie! animal lover type,except cats!)
well, very fair comment webby as the better radio scares ppl off it, because again they get slugged with a fee! well i'm one of ya' 99%that dont have the licence(and dont wave at ya!) and i don't see a licence that ppl cram study for making them more proficient, its regular use and sencible study of the radio operators manual that makes ppl better radio users. like most thing to do with gov' you got a host of disproportionate professions lousing a living of the little bloke who's not wanting to piss up gamble or smoke their hard earned insecure little income on!(don't you hate the term-"its tax deductable!"-moneys still got come out of the income either way!) #feed up- damon"bring on wages inflation!"

peterbo3

28-12-2003, 03:56 PM

If you can use a mobile phone then you can use a VHF. The operators licence is issued by a Commonwealth Dept & FedPol don't do water patrols. ;D ;D ;D It is outside the juristiction of State Police. ;) ;) ;) ;)
Nuff said.

NQCairns

29-12-2003, 07:50 AM

Webby, Damon33 and Peterbo3 you posts had me doing a little jig then banging the table in agreement and finally doing a victory dance, be blowed if I was to pay the bureaucrats to deem me capable of mouthing into a microphone to save myself or someone elses life. How can the Federal Gov be considering getting something actually this right??? hope this sets a precedent for future decisions ::)nq

Peterbo3 how sure are you regarding juristriction? from my old ran-tan days with 27meg citizen band the common practice was to only push the microphone in then never screw it up so that if harassed by the cops the microphone could be extracted with a flick and flung under the seat in quick time rendering the unit unoperable, this was QLD and was the state troopers? Didn't stop them from from thieving the unit until you could show proof of ownership though >:(. cheers.

Morlers

29-12-2003, 08:51 AM

I recently got my VHF/HF licence after doing a 5 week course (5 nights @ about 2 hrs) through VMR Bundaberg. Cost $30 to VMR for the course (I thought of it as a worthy $30 donation rather than a cost) and $38.50 to Office of Maritime Communications (agent -Aust Maritime College). I found that VMR put a very easy and practical application to the theory of the operators manual. I actually enjoyed the 5 week course and the information provided.
Agreed, you may be able to operate a vhf radio without a licence but I feel the information gleened from doing the course certainly helps in its proficient and responsible use.
I havn't heard of the eventual scrapping of the licence but did hear that Australian Communications Authority may be handing the task of checking licences over to state Fisheries and Boating Patrol officers.
Try these websites for more info on the licence:
http://www.amcom.amc.edu.au
http://www.aca.gov.au
Trust the above helps.
Morlers

merv

29-12-2003, 09:20 AM

RECENTLY I PURCHASED A VHF RADIO FROM A MARINE DEALER AND I ASKED ABOUT A LICENCE. ,WAS TOLD NOT TO WORRY AS ALL BOATS SOLD WITH SETS IN GO OUT WITOUT ANY LICENCE . I MADE PHONE CALLS TO RADIO LICENCE MOB. WERE TOLD THEY DON'T HANDLE ANYMORE ,TRIED OTHER DEPARTMENTS AND WAS TOLD TO CONTACT COASTGUARD AS THEY RUN COURSES FOR $138.00 THIS DEALS WITH CORRECT OPERATING PROCEDURE ALSO YOU RECEIVE YOUR CALLSIGN. I WAS ALSO TOLD THAT YOU NO LONGER NEED A LICENCE, IN THAT CASE IT WOULD PAY TO BECOME A ASSOCIATE MEMBER OF YOUR LOCAL COASTGUARD. REMEMBER YOU MIGHT NEVER NO WHEN YOU NEED THEM.MERV ::) [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

NQCairns

29-12-2003, 01:02 PM

Australian Communications Authority may be handing the task of checking licences over to state Fisheries and Boating Patrol officers.

If that ends up the case then I predict the wholesale march back to 27meg by boaties, I will do the leading.
Very strange how a lack of licence and 27 meg worked fine for many many many years (i used to understand what everone said and had no problems contacting or being understood by coastguard ever)(range excluded). Now there is a requirement for a licence with VHF and it is brought over as if VHF wouldn't work just as well as the 27meg of old without the licence overregulation? Thats crap! nq

Kerry

29-12-2003, 01:24 PM

.... Now there is a requirement for a licence with VHF and it is brought over as if VHF wouldn't work just as well as the 27meg of old without the licence overregulation?

Always has been a license requirement for VHF (which basically relates to international requirements) but it wasn't simply just VHF but incorporated other freq and systems that really are totally different to 27mHz.

One really only has to listen to VHF in some areas to realize the lack of respect and understanding some people have for systems like this.

Cheers, Kerry.

NQCairns

30-12-2003, 04:31 AM

Hi Kerry, yes but it was a unit only licence, fillout a form, include some cash each year and post, like magic it was done, at least that is how I remember it.

It was also what I ducked when young with 27meg CB. I understand 27meg MB also should be licenced today but the safety implications outweigh the revinue raising aspect or more possibly given the historical metal of our federal Gov agencies the enforcement costs outweigh the revenue recieved so it is left alone.
Yes the lack of respect sucks but that is 60% of our societies makup and cannot yet be effectivly regulated against yet, without implanted behaviour chips and an automated direct debit fine system for any indiscretion (like that movie) ;D. Wonder what my kids are going to be looking forward to in 50 years? nq

Kerry

30-12-2003, 10:16 AM

.... but it was a unit only licence, fillout a form, include some cash each year and post, like magic it was done, at least that is how I remember it

nq, that was the "apparatus" licence (the physical radio bit only) and yes each and every year, from memory it was something like $40 ??? Now there's no more separate apparatus licence as it's all lumped under a specific class licence, no cost involved.

But that was totally separate to the operators license of proficiency, which has always been and still is a once off.

27mHz "pirate" days ;D say no more 8)

The apparatus licence, yes one could/might simply call that a revenue source but the one off proficency test as far as VHF (and HF and now DSC etc etc) is no where near the same.

If people have a grouvel about sitting a bit of an exam, paying a few dollars to a volunteer organsiation, a few more $$'s for the admin overheads in an endeavour to have a better understanding as far as "proper" radio prodecure goes, then that must go someway to making them a better and safer boatie, helps the volunteer organisations who basically provide the services as well as making the overall marine (big and little boats) environment a better place , then so be it.

Stop grouvelling and do it, what's the big problem?

Cheers, Kerry.

NQCairns

30-12-2003, 02:08 PM

Hi Kerry,
The problem is as a rec boater I am not a commercial enterprise, I make nor take monies from or for my pastime. The op lic will add NOTHING of real value to my rec boating experience the VHF unit alone could not. I simply have nothing tangible or intangible to gain from the added impost of cost and time.

If I was gaining financially in any way from my boating then fair enough and/or my ownership of a VHF was not first and foremost a piece of safety equip.
The need! for an op lic just an insult when the magic of 27meg MB did the job for so long without the added overregulation.

The reasoning for the licence at a physical level has all the parallel depth and justification to me as a recboater, as to myself the couch potato forced to gain an op lic for the new DVD but not the old VCR it replaces, it is just more of the everday bureaucratic belligerence we wade through and would be easy to ignore if it were not such an important and basic piece of safety equip.

We will never know how many people the existance of the op licence will kill over time nor will we ever know how many it would save if it is scrapped. Guaranteed the Gov true to form will not consider the true ramifications of this licence. nq

Kerry

30-12-2003, 03:40 PM

Nq, I suppose there's some that look at/approach the issues differently, such is life.

As far as commercial enterprises, 27mHz is not something those types of operations use so interference with port operations, ships etc isn't a issue for 27mHz operators only. Half the time with 27mHz one couldn't interfere with the boat around the corner but the rest of the world, well they certainly interfere with you.

Really the magic of 27mHz is a little past its use by date and some states (at least) have been in the forefront of this for quite some time.

Old Dick Smith, who really started the 27mHz marine thing so long ago was on a good thing then, for many reasons but these days most of those reasons simply don't exist anymore. Lets face it when Dicky got into 27mHz (his little orange one) VHF didn't really exist (as we know it today) and the only other radio option rec boaties had was HF, as big and bulky as they were then, of course apart from the first of the Ferris flat pack HF's. #

As for lives #;D well just about every year during the southern migration north there's probably a few of them that if ever one could find them, then there might be some "discussion" about protocol.

For some of these people to sit on their yachts 100 metres apart and tie up a repeater network like they do, they really have absolutely no knowledge of radio procedures or operation what so ever. But I suppose coming from south of the border we'll have to exuse them #[smiley=thumbsdown.gif]

I also believe ALL operators of marine radios should do the operators certificate, wouldn't hurt them one little bit, might even make a few actually aware of a few things.

Cheers, Kerry.

webby

30-12-2003, 03:48 PM

Hi As i said earlier in this post, re licences vhf for rec fishers being abandoned is not a fly by the night tales.
I will not state the source of this info, due to reasons.
But for any rec fishos with vhf or 27 mhz, its a matter of common sense in their uses and im bloody sure no one is going to ignore you just because you can't say yes sir no sir correctly.
Christ just listen to some of the procedures from operators on the other end shore based that is.
Im alsol not saying licences are'nt a good thing. but when 27mhz is eventually phased out, im bloody certain there not going to stop everyone who hasnt a vhf on board or cannot speak the queens radio english correctrly.
I know someone whose going to jump straight down my throat for this post, but for his information i have a R.O.P.L. level 1. or what ever you want to call it these days, which was first obtained in the Raaf some 30 years ago
and also contained morse code proficency.
But a good read of the phonetic alphabet and essential procedures will get anyone out of trouble.
regards

Kerry

30-12-2003, 04:04 PM

.-- . -... -... -.-- --..-- / -- --- ... - / .- .-. . / .--. .-. --- -... .- -... .-.. -.-- / - --- / .-.. .- --.. -.-- / - --- / . ...- . -. / -... --- - .... . .-. / .-. . .- -.. .. -. --. / - .... . / .--. .-. --- -.-. . -.. ..- .-. . ... / -... ..- - / .. / -.- -. --- .-- / .-- .... . .-. . / -.-- --- ..- .-. / -.-. --- -- .. -. --. / ..-. .-. --- -- --..-- / .--- ..- ... - / - .... .- - / ... --- -- . / - .... .. -. --. / - .... . -.-- / .- .-. . / .- -... --- ...- . / .. - .-.-.- / .- -. -.-- .-- .- -.-- ..--.. / .-- .... --- / -- .. --. .... - / - .... .- - / ... --- -- . --- -. . / -... . ..--..

;D

webby

30-12-2003, 04:10 PM

;D :o

mackmauler

30-12-2003, 06:41 PM

Webby, you must of needed your glasses to get through that at your age ;D ;D

NQCairns

31-12-2003, 03:04 AM

Cheers Kerry, it's good to hear other peoples opinions, I vaguely remember someone prompting the fleeting thought of changing my mind many years ago ;D ;D ;D.
Those yachties were lacking basic respect, you should hear the popular CB VHF now, nothing but rubbish 24/7, it aint going to change.nq

webby

31-12-2003, 03:11 AM

-.- . .-. .-. -.--
.... . .- .-. -.. \ .. - \..-. .-. --- -- \- .... .\-.-. --- .- ... --- ..- ..- .- -..
.-. . --. .- .-. -.. ;D

peterbo3

31-12-2003, 05:58 AM

Kerry & Brian,
For those amongst who are of poor sight or just not Morse
literate, how about a translation ??? ??? [smiley=dunce.gif] [smiley=dunce.gif] [smiley=book2.gif] [smiley=book2.gif] [smiley=helpa.gif] [smiley=helpa.gif] [smiley=jester.gif] [smiley=jester.gif] [smiley=jester.gif]

NQCairns

31-12-2003, 11:19 AM

Hi Webby, i just got back from droping the crab pots in for the nite and thanks to your above info I actually put the aerial on the VHF and had a listen in [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]. cheers nq

Big_Muddie

31-12-2003, 12:01 PM

-.- . .-. .-. -.-- / .- -. -.. / .-- . -... -... -.-- --..-- / .--. . .-. .... .- .--. ... / .- / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . / -.-. .-.. ..- -... / .. ... / - .... . / .-- .- -.-- / - --- / --. --- .-.-.- / .. - / .-- .. .-.. .-.. / -.- . . .--. / -- --- ... - / --. ..- . ... ... .. -. --. .-.-.-

mackmauler

31-12-2003, 01:06 PM

-... .. --. / -- ..- -.. -.. .. . / .-- .... . .-. . / .- .-. . / - .... . / -.-. .-. .- -... ... / :D

NQCairns

31-12-2003, 01:48 PM

Peterbo3 go to http://www.soton.ac.uk/~scp93ch/morse/trans.html just cut and paste.nq

Zeeke

31-12-2003, 02:29 PM

.-. ..- -... -... . .-. / -.. ..- -.-. -.- -.-- / .-. ..- -... -... . .-. / -.. ..- -.-. -.- -.-- --..-- / - .... .. ... / .. ... / -- .-. / -... ..- -... -... .-.. . / - .... . / -.- .. -.. / .. ... / --- -. / - .... . / .-.. --- --- ... . / - .... . / -.- .. -.. / .. ... / --- -. / - .... . / .-.. --- --- ... . --..-- / .-.. --- --- -.- / --- ..- - / .-. ..- -... -... . .-. / -.. ..- -.-. -.- -.--

Kerry

31-12-2003, 03:38 PM

Yes Zeeke but is that a pink ducky or a blue ducky ;D

Anyway back to the real issue.

NQ, yes what one as to suffer with UHF (assume that's what to mean as CB VHF?) these days isn't what I'd like to see as the future of marine VHF, if 27mHz is down sized for any reason. UHF is an absolute shocker with the amount of useless garbage that goes on.

While those that are happy using 27mHz probably continue using 27mHz then possibly there might be some saviour in that. Really if 27 mHz was terminated tomorrow then really some would certainly require some education in "proper protocol" to move to VHF.

It's not that I've always been against 27mHz as once it was better than nothing for most users and even the first system that was introduced here was 27 mHz and back in 1976 is wasn't bad either, even if I say so my self ;). This setup had height, was landlined and with some special "modifications" to the transceiver it had quite a good range.

http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user/mattk/images/bluff_27a.jpg

Today that antenna is still on that tower but there's no way I'm going back up there to remove it :o

Cheers, Kerry.

Big_Muddie

31-12-2003, 03:58 PM

Mackmauler,

The crabs are hiding, but after tomorrow they will be in my fridge!

Gorilla_in_Manila

31-12-2003, 04:02 PM

Kerry,
This is a tower. ;)
Cheers,
Jeff

makka

31-12-2003, 09:30 PM

kerry
what mods can u do to get more range ot of the 27mhz radio as thats what i got and i am happy with that.
makka

blaze

01-01-2004, 01:22 AM

Hi makka
you can increase output power (causes interferance with others, not legal) get a better ariel, maybe with gain (not dure if that option is available for marine)
cheers
blaze

Kerry

01-01-2004, 05:02 AM

;) Jeff, ok your Tower is bigger than my Pole, err guyed pole :D. Either one it's still a long way down, the end result much the same [smiley=sick2.gif]

Makka, the bigger the antenna the better but there's also a practical limit and it's all about height, the higher the better.

Cheers, Kerry.

element

04-02-2004, 05:17 PM

:) :) [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]
Help!!!!!.
Recently put a new VHF into my boat. Now have both 27meg and VHF.
Last weekend when out wide from gold coast (20km) 27 meg worked fine (send and receive) VMR Southport. VHF also fine (send and receive) but trying to contact a couple of mates fishing up off deep tempest VHF could not pick up signal correctly but I could hear clicking on and off like squelching.
After talking to them on the mobile they said they could hear me on VHF and just audible on 27 MEG---
the aerial is on the rocket launcher and is 85 cm type.
not sure if this is the problem.
anyone with suggestions is welcome.-maybe I am expecting too much.

Wayne

Kerry

04-02-2004, 06:17 PM

Wayne, certainly not expecting too much.

Were you trying to talk boat to boat direct freq or going through the repeater? If your mates could hear you ok and you were ok with VMR then that sort of points to the other radio maybe having a transmission problem.

The height/length of antenna has really more to do with transmission than reception but I'd go the longest antenna I could fit. That 85cm antenna isn't really affecting your reception (as such) but a longer one might improve your transmission but really your mate sounds like they have a problem.

Cheers, Kerry.

aido

04-02-2004, 07:19 PM

20 km off the gold coast to deep tempest might be pushing the limits of range a bit. 90-100 km
vhf is normally line of sight operation.
your antenna is on the rocket launcher (good), maybe your mates is on the deck (bad)?
either way, i reacon you've found the limits with your setup.
get the antenna up as high as possible to increase the range
any more.
some vhf units have a high/low pwr switch also. like 1w/25w
wonder if your mate was transmitting using full power?

hi kerry, where are the marine vhf repeaters located??

Kerry

05-02-2004, 05:13 AM

Aido, over this distance the one to use would be Point Lookout North Stradbroke (VHF Ch 80), which just about sits in the middle and should be within reasonable range (~50km) especially being a repeater.

There's also Ch 21 on Cape Moreton, Ch 81 Mt Glorious and Ch 82 Yellowwood Hill Beenleigh.

From Southport through the Beenleigh repeater one would probably transmit to Moreton island but might be touchy trying to trigger the repeater from Cape Moreton as that's getting close to the limit.

Probably depends a little on the repeater location and height as some (not all) of our repeaters up this way are good for 40-50nm (80-90km).

Cheers, Kerry.

aido

05-02-2004, 06:08 AM

thanks for enlightening me kerry.
my last boat had 27h.f. and v.h.f.
never thought about repeaters.
no wonder i thought the h.f. was just as good
range wise but readability poorer.
now just the little 27mhz, but i must say it's seems
to be tuned better than the last one.
no two ways about it, it's a black art. lol.
cheers

lordy

05-02-2004, 06:42 AM

Any problem hooking an old Uniden car CB up in a boat appart from the obvious rust and water problems?

aido

05-02-2004, 02:12 PM

not really, if you want to talk with truckies rather than
boaties. pretty sure the channel frequencies are different.

lordy

05-02-2004, 02:14 PM

not really, if you want to talk with truckies rather than
boaties. pretty sure the channel frequencies are different.

Bugger! ;D

element

05-02-2004, 04:36 PM

Thanks for the info on my VHF. i probably need understand the way the repeaters are set up to fully appreciate the capacity of my VHF.

ELEMENT

skippa

05-02-2004, 05:45 PM

G'Day Guys'

A question maybe Kerry could answer.

On a recent holiday to 1770, we could hear local chatter on my 27mhz radio. Then came thru, clear as a bell, a call from a charter boat to coast guard or vmr at Trial Bay. Is there a Trial Bay around 1770??? cause the only one I know of is down South West Rocks NSW mid coast. Later on we also heard similiar call from a boat reporting a safe return into the Clarence river!!! (NSW north coast??)

Weather wise it was a perfect day, glassy seas with only slight cloud cover. I know we were a little way off shore and there was a slight current But..... kinda spooky, maybe Fox Mulder could help!!

Normally fish Moreton Bay and get reasonable coverage from Redcliffe to Southport from around Peel Is area.

Cheers,
Skippa 8)

Kerry

06-02-2004, 03:41 AM

Skippa, 27mHz is very prone to interference and being the frequency it is has a tendancy to "skip" of the atmosphere.

In the 70's when actually using 27mHZ was illegal :-X, 27mHz was used by "hobbyists" (in those days called "pirates") to communicate with people all over the world and depending on the atmospheric conditions one could hear and talk with people on the other side of the country, in the U.S yet couldn't hear the person in the next street.

Cheers, Kerry.

agnes_jack

06-02-2004, 04:47 AM

Skippa
Never heard of a trial bay around here mate

Regards Tony ???

Kerry

06-02-2004, 06:11 AM

Most likely be Trial bay near South West Rocks, NSW?

Cheers, Kerry.

Daintreeboy

06-02-2004, 06:18 AM

We've heard lots of calls from Port Stevens up this way of Wonga Beach (Port Douglas) clear as a bell.
It was funny, one day the coastgaurd put across a warning about two white pointers heading down the beaches and to be on alert for them. Atmospheric bounce.

skippa

06-02-2004, 06:32 AM

Thanks Guys,

Kerry, skip eh. Thanks for that, most unusal to hear from people talking 100's of K's away. Must have just been in the right spot. I don't recall hearing calls from far and wide around Brisbane.

Most chatter is usually from the 'Asian' fleet around Moreton Bay. (Maybe I'm listening to the wrong channel)

Tony, nope didn't think it was from around 1770 either. Couldn't understand how I could recieve messages from so far away.Hows' the fishin' been up your way, managed to get away from the shop yet?

Cheers,
Tony 8)

johhno

07-02-2004, 04:50 AM