Fishing and boating @ what cost from now?

[ahoj]

Hi mates,
With rising fuel prices and old boats still running with 40- 200 hp motors they will become as absolete as big petrol guzzling cars...worse part is that these monsters are almost unsellable one cannot trade in .Dealers that have big motors on stock are hard to move them. However it is relavant to ones income and finance.. average recreational fisherman to spend 2-300$ per week on boating will soon find a protest from the one that must be obeyed. The main trend in boat buying is tinnies up to 4.5 m and 15-25 hp ---Pollyboats will become popular as they need very little maintenence and will last a lifetime. Having a discussion with few boat dealers- they all agree not to stock any larger motors then 25hp and boats on order only..So what is the conclusion? smaller and light boats economical smaller motors and enjoy a little longer on the water for less money I feel most of you will agree with me --- your halves will lol
Good fishing Ahoj

[finga64]

Bit hard to go 18km offshore with a 25hp on the back of a 5m Bertram. The day is only so long.
And safety MUST be an issue with anybody going wider in the bay or in the open sea. You sometimes need the power and physical size to survive.

I'm not saying that little boats will not become more common (I also have a little tinny with a 25hp) for use in the rivers and maybe to close places in the bay etc on good days, but horses for courses is my opinion.

I love my fibreglass and aluminium boats. I look after them so maintenance is not really an issue. All boats need regular maintenance no matter what the method of construction and materials used for construction.

Dealers will tell you anything they think you want to here. They're there to make a quid.

As for big boats being unsellable go and have a look at any boatyard. They're full of brand spanking new 4.5m+ boats. They would not have them there if they couldn't sell them.

People love fishing/boating. People will save up money to enable themselves to do anything they love to do (not just fishing/boating) by going without other luxuries if money is an issue.
We go without to enable us to do the things we want to do. I don't smoke or go the the TAB, I don't drive a newer/flashier car, we don't go out to resturants to have a flash feed and we don't go on holidays to resorts or overseas, we holiday in the family house at Evans or go to my other house at Warwick for a break.
But we love a day in the ocean or in the river and nobody is going to take that away from us.

People will do what they want with their hard earned cash whether it be p-ss it up against the wall or buy AND use a bigger boat.

Just imagine everybody towing their 4m tinny with a 25 on the back with their Hyundi Excel to the boat ramp so they can go Marlin fishing for the day

P.S. I drive a V8 Kingswood too. Why, because I want too and it safely tows the Bertram. :)

[toymod]

nah i agree with finga never happen

[ahoj]

well Finga.... you seem like a sensible bloke and knows where his priorities lay. if you and your family enjoys boating/fishing and have no other expensive wises and can afford it --so be it. I was making a overall report as to what is going to likely happen with fuel and oil prices as i am involved in fin. the trend is likely to hit up to 100us$ a barrel--Been to few boating venues at mollolahah-noosa mcdonald lake barumba boreen point over xmas and found less people riding boats then ever before. Its possible folks are already feeling the high cost of fuel..

your kingswood will soon be eligible as veteran car....... Cheers

Ahoj

[familyman]

I read recently in one of Jeff Websters mags that f'glass will present a real problem in the future for recycling,Surely old glass hulls could be chipped and converted to filler for plastics to extend the fossil fuels from which plastics originate.I think as consumers we must look toward recycling and fuel economy before someone does it for us (at our peril). :o
Just went out today up to Swansea nsw ,the numbers of large sports cruisers 25'+ hooning around like they are jet skis,I was astounded at how much fuel they would be going through and the damage to the banks these things are doing.With the greens and democrats looking to ban rec fishing through conservation legislation ,if that gets through does anyone have any guesses as to what will be next? >:(
Hopefully when it comes time to replace my old two stroke the four strokes will be down a bit on price as I for one get scared away by the price of the things.As Finga said we will sacrifice some luxuries to be able to afford others just as others sacrifice having a family to have a career in their chosen field. ::)
Its just different strokes for different folks :)
cheers jon

[billfisher]

Well the trend has been for bigger boats and maximum horsepower and I haven't seen any sign of it reversing. People were saying big boats and big miles at sea will be a thing of the past back in the 1980's when the fuel price spiked. The laws of supply and demand meant that the price of fuel fell again. I think you will find that todays fuel is not that expensive by historical standards when you take inflation into account. Also motors are far more fuel efficient these days. Even the basic two strokes don't use that much at 90hp and under. With my 5.4m boat with Tohatsu 90hp I can do an outside trip covering about 35 miles for 30L of fuel. Split with the crew thats a pretty cheap outing.
Also don't be suprised if the fuel price drops again, the present high prices are probably not sustainable.

[FrogBat]

Completely disagree with Ahoj but all for Finga and Billfisher.

I've got a 5m w/ 90hp and we have the same consumption as Bill's. Motors are more efficient nowadays.
Those who can afford the big boats, can afford the fuel. The last 3 times we went out (river and bay), big boats (6m +) were everywhere and they are not disappearing!
If you can't afford $50 on average for a trip, then maybe you shouldn't have a boat or take some friends to share the costs. Its cheaper than going to the pub!!

I know a guy who spends $2000/day (yes, $2000! - it's a HUGE boat!!) but, hey, he can afford it, so why not!

The point is that you buy and use what you can afford. And for those who love boating/fishing, they will always find a way to do it. Maybe not as often but still.

I'm trying to understand what Ahoj's point is: fuel is more expensive? yes. Are we going to trade in our boats for tinnies? no. Because you can't use a tinnie or small boat w/ up to 25hp the way you would use a pleasure craft.

As for dealers not stocking motors over 25hp, I believe it has nothing to do with the fuel but more with the price of bigger motors. As a business, you don't want to be sitting on $10s of $1000s for too long! In general, the bloke who walks in to buy a motor, it'll be a small one as you can just pay and go with it. For bigger ones, people do their research, know what they want, are prepared to wait and order them or even bring the boat for it to be fitted. Not a little expense there!
And why did you (Ahoj) ask Col Fisher about the 30hp 4 stroke he had for sale a little while ago if you think they are not cost effective and got no market?

As for Pollyboats, it's probably more a question of personal likes or dislikes. They have been on the market for a decade and have not really taken off until recently as people were wary of the 'wheely bin on water' syndrome. Discoloration, life span of the material etc.

The price of fuel has been high (the equivalent of what it is now in Australia) in Europe for 2 decades now - even higher than here nowadays - and people still drive big boats and big fast cars!

C.

[Grand_Marlin]

Fishing offshore is the same as being addicted to Cocaine... one way or another you are gonna find a way to get your fix....

Fuel etc is certainly a hurdle, but you always find a way....

Finga, you are spot an mate.

Everyone whinges about rising prices, the eventually wages etc rise to compensate. It has always been the way and will never change (not for the better anyway)

[ahoj]

Hi Frogbat
The nearest to 25 hp would have been Col Fishers 30 hp yammy for a friend who had 90 hp and wants to reduce her since bought 25hp

each one of you comentators are defending your own rigs ----quite understandable.. the idea was to awaken you to the total costs running big boats.... its no odds if you can afford it..

I can only rule by example my rig can run all day on batteries or a 6 hp yamaha or both-- speed aprox 18 km/h 2 people
less on minnkota calculated cost max was last 6 hours prospecting in barumba dam from spillway to the end around and back almost 11$.
I am not comparing to boats going to sea or professional fisherman but a recreational relaxing fisherman.......I have made this rig to minimise expenced and maximise time and fishing pleasure...not everyone will want my boat bad habits die hard.
Ahoj

Ahoj

[ahoj]

pic 2

[FrogBat]

ROFLMAO!!

This is hilarious!! ;D ;D [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

You are comparing apples to bananas!! Of course you wouldn't - actually, let me re-phrase this - you couldn't put a motor other than a 6hp on your sailess "sail boat"!! Out of curiousity, what's the maximum manufacturers horse power rating of the hull?
How's she handle in half metre chop?
And I'd like to know why your friend would downgrade from a 90 to a 25? If he's got a 4m + boat, he would flog the guts out of the 25 and have no fuel economy what's so ever! Be like Finga puting a mini engine in his kingswood!

We all know the price of the fuel.. but hey, you ain't going to convert us to using your style of boat! In my home country, we add 2 oars and we call it a pirogue. Great vessel to glide silently on the water to do some special hunting but not out on the sea!!

I'm sorry to say, but I cannot call this recreational relaxing fishing, and I'm not a professional fisherwoman!!

PS: why all the panic bars?? If you really want to save money, ditch the motor and put the sail back on ;)

C.

[ahoj]

Frog...

Vous trouvez mon bateau amuser ? je serai dernier pour rire l'In mon prefere de l'âge I pour ne pas courir autour comme un hoon

Ahoj

[FrogBat]

Frog...

Vous trouvez mon bateau amuser ? je serai dernier pour rire l'In mon prefere de l'âge I pour ne pas courir autour comme un hoon

Ahoj


Ahoj, si tu cherches a m'impressioner avec ton francais, c'est plutot rate! Je suis francaise de naissance et mon francais est tres bon, je n'en dirais pas autant du tiens!!

A word of advice, don't use online translators because they cannot translate the grammar. Which means that your sentence has little meaning, and you sound like a fool to all those who understand the language, but I believe you were trying to say something like:
Don't laugh at my boat, I will be the one to have the last laugh.. then are you trying to say that because of your age you can't run around a boat like a hoon??

I wasn't laughing at your boat, I was laughing at the comparaison you make between your boat and everybody else's. There is use for your boat, no doubt about it. But please, don't tell everybody what they should have for theirs. You and I (and I bet a large majority of other ausfishers here) do not practise your way of relaxing recreational fishing. You give a meaning to this which is not how we define it.

BTW, my father in law is 76, riddled with arthritis but still drive a 3.75m Quintrex with a 25hp, he takes it easy and enjoys his fishing, even by himslef. So age has nothing to do with it!

I don't think you need to rise the awarness of the costs of fishing due to the fuel price. Yep, it has risen.. a bit.. but it's less than the costs of fueling your car every week, less than the prices of movie tickets and wages go up too. So there's a balance.. one way or another. And we like fishing, so we will find the $$ for a little outing! ;)

I'll be more worried of the cost of bait than fuel! Especially when you catch nothing!!


C.

[ahoj]

Nothing like CAJUN PIROGUE

[FrogBat]

not the same country mate! Do another search... hint: south pacific!

C.

[ahoj]

Frogbat: have sent you PM

[finga64]

Frog...

Vous trouvez mon bateau amuser ? je serai dernier pour rire l'In mon prefere de l'âge I pour ne pas courir autour comme un hoon

Ahoj


Ahoj, si tu cherches a m'impressioner avec ton francais, c'est plutot rate! Je suis francaise de naissance et mon francais est tres bon, je n'en dirais pas autant du tiens!!

I showed the cook this, she's from New Calendonia. She laughed about it and wouldn't tell me what it ment. >:(
Something to do about me been too slack to learn her language or something :-[

Who speaks french?? Hope it's nothing naughty?? Hope it's nothing like what happened to the Rainbow Warrior :D

And apparently the vessel frogbat is talking about is like a canoe made out of a coconut tree with 1 or two outriggers with a frame over the lot and a sail can be on as well instead of paddling.

She recons she'll have to keep a track on Ausfish now. Looks like another convert.

Frogbat, sent a PM (for the cook)

[toymod]

God thats one mean boat ;D Sounds like the end of the world is comming in his eys...thoughs he laugh last....well trust me after seeing that thing I will be laughing last ;D

[Grand_Marlin]

First they take our guns..... :(
Now our boats..... >:(

But they can not take our freedom...... 8-)

[billfisher]

Yes there are a lot of worry warts out there. A boat has got to perform a function. Try and sell an underpowered rig and see how slow it is to move (in more ways than one).
That was how Holden lost first place to Ford back in the 1980's. The brought out the VB Commodore, a much narrower and smaller car than the traditional family 6 in response to the so called fuel crisis. Ford stuck with a fully sized car with larger capacity engine (refined for better fuel economy) and romped ahead in sales.

[toymod]

it looks like they are up shit creek....but with a paddle ;D

Atleast there is an oh shit bar at the front, going to need one in that speed machine :o

Can you please tell us what it is used for?

As everyone siad, everything has a purpose, do you think they will give us all stick on wings, as jets/planes will be gone due to the fuel prices?? Are we going to go back to steam powerd vesels??

Me dont thinks so

Whats the go with only one paddle?? Is it to whack the guy over the head that thought of this idea??

Me thinks you are only looking into one side of the facts.

The reason that these"smaller" engines and boats are so popular is because the recreational boating industry (people who are bying boats) is increasing at a 200% per anum. First boat buyer, buying there first boat are not after $100000 boats, they want something simple they can afford to pay off, tow behind there car and get there confidence up (this is the biggest portion of new boat buyer)

I dont know if you have been in a buisness, but most dealerships do not want many of these bigger motors sitting around (what if they shell out for 5 brand new motors at 20000 a pop, only for the next customer to want a bigger/smaller or different brand?)

Its called bad buisness pratices!

Good luck with your venture into boat building ;)

[rough_shag]

As an ex-cat racer,only got one thing to say about this 'boat'-JESUS!!,if you wanna take it to the next level just add some pedals and turn her into a paddle boat!! lol.On the oil/fuel crisis debate-the world oil companies are not finding any new significant oil reserves and at the same time there are countries such as China and India which are beginning to westernize at a rapid rate and demand fuel sources accordingly(as well as other resources).Countries like the UK are finding that their oil resources in the Nth Atlantic are winding down and will soon be importing oil also.
Due to many factors extracting oil is more costly and in some cases costs more in energy consumption to extract than what the final product contains!(ie:uses two barrels to extract 1 barrel).The year 2000 was a break even point where world supply was equal to demand and since then demand has begun to outstrip supply-so far no one has a workable solution to this situation.As a result oil prices will climb constantly unless either demand drops(aint gunna happen) or new reserves are found(aint happening).
I think higher fuel prices are here to stay indefinitely and maybe in future we will think ourselves lucky to just have a fuel supply regardless of price. :-/ FINGERS CROSSED.Jace.

[billfisher]

Its mainly speculation and geopolitical concerns keeping oil high at the moment. There is enough of oil to meet demand. Don't be surprised if oil drops to $50 a barrel before long. There was a lack of expenditure in refining and exploration the last time oil was cheap, the present high prices will help fix that.

[cooky]

I like your boat - interesting invention. Would be a pretty relaxing platform to cruise lakes, rivers, etc. I'd want to see a better canopy (looks hard to cast from with those obstacles (poles, rope).

Unfortunately I'm not a mad keen fisherman, so will always want a larger boat with larger motors. I have friends that are very keen fisherfolk and therefore don't care (so much) about the boating aspect (merely a means to get to the fishing spots). Sort of blokes that will fish from a breakwall or something. I don't have time for that anymore, so am desperate to get out on the water and enjoy the boating experience. I enjoy fishing, but I enjoy boating equally if not more. People like me won't convert to smaller boats, in fact will mostly convert to bigger boats (if financially able). I do agree however that fuel prices are effecting boating. I'm a little less likely to "whip over there for a look" than before. More and more people are buying 4 stroke motors and possibly trying to get away with the best sized motor for boat, rather than old days of buying the BIGGEST motor your hull could handle (more power

[seabug]

"Its mainly speculation and geopolitical concerns keeping oil high at the moment. There is enough of oil to meet demand. Don't be surprised if oil drops to $50 a barrel before long. There was a lack of expenditure in refining and exploration the last time oil was cheap, the present high prices will help fix that. "

That could change in an instant if Israel decided it did not want Iran to have the bomb
That would put it over $USD100 a barrel in days

Have to hope that Iran lets the Russians do the fuel processing.
Seabug

[troy]

Ahoj up here where i live dealers are flat out keeping up with the demand for boats ranging from 5 meters upwards.
If as i admit fuel is dear but at the same time if you really love boating you just have to put up with it and if you cannot or do not want to you might as well not own a boat.
It is not only fuel that is getting expensive so is everything else.
Part of life.
Troy

[ahoj]

Holly Mackerel ----I did stir a lots of wash --good--- the message went over to the sensible and the sceptics. Those comics are invited for a short trip-- when you see me anywhere on the water --just ask--- those who have a cat sailing experience will know what i am talking about. my rig is very comfortable and stable It cuts through waves from speedboats like a knife cutting through soft butter and no clutter- banging and flying up the waves....@ aprox 18 km its a dream on the water.. and the economy?? I am smiling in every direction---- ;D ;D ;D

reply to cooky: My bimini can be folded 1/2 way or all the way while on water The holding straps have now been repositioned and casting is relatively easy.
And you doubting Thomases make sure when you come for a test ride to have a hat on that will not fly away...... :)

I wish you all good fishing and am glad that this subject had your attention

Cheers Ahoj

[FrogBat]

Ahoj, got your PM but can't reply yet.
So it's obviously a project that keeps you busy and entertained, which is good. Whether the boat would pass the safety check with flying colours, I'm a bit sceptic, but I'm no boat builder expert.
Can u get insurance for it?
it's also good to see that youa re concerned with the environment as we should all do our bit.

But as I said and as all the others agree, this is not a fishing boat as we all envision it, but one that meets the needs of your particular niche, therefore cannot be compared. Yes, it's surely more cost effective than a normal boat, but it sure cannot do the same or go where we go. If you do go outside (high seas) with this, then you are a complete lunatic!!

Finga: your cook is right.. that's the type of vessel I was talking about.. made out of coconut tree trunks.. hehehe.. I should meet her I reckon!! And no, I wasn't talking about the Rainbow Warrior :)

C.

[ahoj]

No one is going out with my rig out to sea but if you know anything about cat calypso these boats are used for sea racing regatas and they handle the chop comfortably even @ 45degrees and running on one hull........ frogbat.. where do you boat?

Ahoj

[billfisher]

[
That could change in an instant if Israel decided it did not want Iran to have the bomb
That would put it over $USD100 a barrel in days

Have to hope that Iran lets the Russians do the fuel processing.
Seabug[/quote]

Well they bombed Sadams nuclear reactor in the 1980's and nothing happened. A more immediate scenario would be that the UN Security Council would impose trade sactions on Iran. Now the markets are worried that Iran might then shut off oil exports in retaliation. If this happened the oil price would probably go up to the high 70s or over 80 dollars p.b. for a while. But given that Irans exports account for only 3% of the worlds supply the price effects may not be long lived. The US could release some of its strategic reserve, estimated to cover 600 days of an Iranian embargo. Also other Opec countries and Russia could step up output and cover much of the shortfall. Iran would also be shooting itself in the foot given that half of its GDP comes from oil exports. The hardship of an embargo would cause civil unrest and might convince them to get rid of their nut case president. So I for one won't be loosing any sleep over the price of fuel.

[finga64]

hey Ahoj,
Yes, they sail cats, and yes they handle well. WITH A SAIL.....
That's why Noosa Cats, Kevla Cats etc, etc are designed, built and look different to a sail cat.

Have a good read of the first sentence of what rough-shag has said, he used to race them....

If I can read between your lines you are trying to say that people should be using smaller motors to do the job of their larger motors, and that everybody should be converting twin hull sail boats because if their ability to "cut through the waves like hot butter"

Have you ever considered the reason why different hulls are designed the way they are???

Horses for courses mate. fair dinkum.

"No one is going out with my rig out to sea but if you know anything about cat calypso these boats are used for sea racing regatas and they handle the chop comfortably even @ 45degrees and running on one hull........ "Ah, when they go flat out they're a mono hull. Why??!! ;D

Ahoj.... Ever heard of a bloke called Stephan, you know the hair cut guy. He had a boat that could handle virtually any conditions that huey could throw at him. But not everybody is going to go out and buy a ocean racer and put a 25hp Yammi on the back either. And it's a mono hull.

I'd hate to be on your boat when there's a bit of a swell (1/4m) with a 1/2m wind chop. Yes, it may cut through the swell, chop like hot butter but there isn't a great deal between the water and my butt.
I don't like enema's.

We buy the style, configuration and power rating of boat that suits our needs. Not everyones needs are the same. Some people have needs that one boat cannot meet so they have two boats to fill those needs. I have a 5m with a 90hp motor and a 3.75m with a 25hp motor to fill two seperate needs we have.

As I said before....horses for courses... and as Frogbat has said, your boat fills the smaller specialty niche that you personally have. You have built a boat to fill that need.. good on ya... but please remember everybody needs aren't the same as yours. In all the postings on this thread nobody has told you to go and buy a tinny have they? Why, because most people would respect your choice. Please respect our choices.

If the supply of fuel is going to be a concern I'd be investigating alternative fuels, not make everybody have a 25hp motor.

Why hasn't anybody done an outboard that runs on gas or diesel??. Both are cleaner to the environment then 2 strokes and, in most cases, 4 stroke petrol motors. Gas cylinders like small forklift tanks could be used They are easy to handle, convenient to store and a lot safer then a lot of plastic fuel tanks. And diesel has greater efficiences and power to weight ratios then 2 stroke or 4 stroke petrol motors. That's why they use them for high powered, high torque applications. Look at a growing number of European cars that use diesel. Why??(yep, the cooks French)....More food for thought...

[ahoj]

I am not trying to convert anyone -just making them aware that there is an alternative....
when i go sea fishing --I hire a boat with a skipper share the cost with 3-4 friends and when we finish we hop into our cars (smaller) and go to pub for a meal..... but that is me ----and everyone loves his boat....whatever size.. its a second marriage... divorces are painfull..
This DEBATE was succesfull ,it created heated arguments, accepatences and humour and no doubt thoughts..... Many thanks

Ahoj

ahoj@dodo.com.au

[finga64]

I am not trying to convert anyone -just making them aware that there is an alternative....

Yes, you suggest an alternative. But to what?? How many people sit in the specialised niche market that you have placed yourself in??
The alternative you suggest could/would get most of us killed.

What alternatives do you suggest for the MAJORITY of people that have a conventional boat that they use in dams as well as creeks, as well as rivers, as well as calmer days in the bay???

What about the people that go outside, what do you suggest???

That's why we have 2 boats.

[DR]

Why hasn't anybody done an outboard that runs on gas or diesel??. Both are cleaner to the environment then 2 strokes and, in most cases, 4 stroke petrol motors.

Finga, interesting you should say that.
the last time i was on the Brissy River there was some sort of service boat that was with the dredge, it appeared to be running a 25hp Yanmar diesel outboard, first time i heve seen one.. :) anyone else seen these & what are they like.this one seemed fine, was pushing a big punt style boat around..

[blaze]

seen 37hp? diesel outboards on ebay for about $11 000 . thats my guess as to why you dont see many and a diesel motor, power to weight ratio is a lot more than say a 4 stroke petrol of the same hp
cheers
blaze

[finga64]

yeah, so it's a matter of how much do you spend to save a couple of bucks :-/
Hopefully, when the popularity of diesel increases and they bring more in the price will drop lots and lots. ;)

[billfisher]

I believe that outboards can be made to run on LPG without too much modification.

[PeterT]

I agree it seems as if the trend is bigger and more powerful.

I wonder what the stats are on small motors related to big motors. In the past a 12 foot boat usually had a 9.9hp on it. Now about the smallest is a 15.

My first boat was a De Haviland 10ft CT with a johnson 4 h. For reverse you rotated the motor 360. If I put a piece of tubing on the tiller and sat perched between the seats it would just plane. Cos I was about half my present weight in those days. Fuel tank was 2.5 gallons and lasted for ever. Come to think of it, it took forever to get any where. 2 up she barely made way going up stream in the Murray, but it was fun and did the job.

Human/fisherman's ingenuity will overcome all obstacles. Funny to see biminis converted to coal gas bags like during the 2nd WW.

I'll probably be running my suzi 115 on femented cane toad juice in a decade or so.

pete

[ahoj]

Good idea billfisher 4 stroke shouldnt be no trouble to convert to gas.......wander why no one thought of it.....

ahoj

[onerabbit]

Have to admit, I've recently upgraded from the old Yam90 to a new Merc115 (carb feed), the new 1 is quieter , faster & more efficient by 25%, theres a lot to be said for making a big motor hum as opposed to making a smaller motor scream for the same result, especially in the middle of a bar crossing...............Muzz

[FrogBat]

Spot on finga, I was going to say the same: these sail boats actually HAVE a sail!

Ahoj, I go fishing around Brisbane, out west and outside