Bearings aint bearings

[Scalem]

Here's a trap I am sorting out.....

Two months ago I took delivery of a new 4.5mtr single axle trailer. I asked for standard holden rims and bearing hub/axle assembly. It has been dunked twice, and the only thing I wanted to do was replace the dust covers with bearing buddies. Not a problem I thought..... I got a chance to work on it today. Bearing buddies don't fit, the hub is too big. :-? :-? And buggar!!! Is that water I see inside the cap?? As usual a simple job has turned into a major drama. Too easy, i'll go down and get new bearings, because these ones are already salt water affected (in only two trips), including the cones. Strike 2, the bearings are not standard holden or ford, they are what's known as "parallel" set. Where normal ford or holden bearings are bigger inners, smaller outer bearings, these are both exactly the same, inner and outer. No problemo, just get replacements...... I went to the 3 major retail shops for auto accessories, and none of them have them in stock, quoting as high as $28.00 per bearing. And Timken bearings are more again!!! Back to the original problem, no bearing buddy will fit this hub.

By now I am feeling rather disillusioned ( I am remaining calm, so that's the best word I can find without using expletives) at having parted with $$$$$$ for a new trailer, and one of the guys I tried to get help from had this bit of advice. " There's an influx of nasty axle and bearing combinations that are only good for throwing in the bin, and putting the right combination of axles and hubs on there." Holy #$#%%$!! You're kidding me right?? He was serious.

So I went back to the boat yard I bought it through. Originally when I was on the phone to them, it was suggested I ring the manufacturer of the trailer direct on Monday. Huh??? I insisted I come down and show them the Hub and bearings, he sounded as if I didn't know what I was talking about, and disinterested in helping me out. When I got there, out came all the spare bearing kits they had on sale... Nup, you are right mate, they are not standard bearings.... So I have left my phone number with them, and they said they are going to call the trailer manufacturer on Monday and sort something out.

Best case cenario they will replace the axle and hubs to standard Ford, as this is what the wheels are, but I think I am being very optimistic here. Worste case - they will find a bearing buddy to suit ( which I doubt)

When you look at the design of the axle, the rubber seal at the back, I am not convinced that the design is going to keep my bearings dry. The design is radically different to standard Ford or Holden, which have tapered axles. This axle is straight where the thread for the retainer nut is. I have been quoted $250.00 to change the axle and hubs over. Wait and see >:( >:( >:( Happy Christmas to me!!! Just what I wanted!! In the meantime I have re packed the bearings and cones, but because the salt water has already started damaging them, I will basically be grounded until this is sorted out. I can limp around, but don't want to risk it, because I don't have any spares, and like I said earlier, nobody has these bearings in stock. I asked for standard Ford or Holden!!!

A rather cheesed off , not happy Scalem

[stevedemon]

Hi Scalem

depends on where you live try Beenleigh Bearing mate they are about $14.00 aside completed sets i use ford bearings on mine and always pull them apart every 8-)3 or four trips or if it sit there more than 3 months and i always use Marine grease this seems to last longer and keeps your bearings in good condition

as for the salt in your bearing hit them with some mineral turps to clean them then repack them with marine grease this will keep the rust and corrision down to a min

Cheers ;D ;D
Steve 8-) 8-)

[Scalem]

Hi Scalem

depends on where you live try Beenleigh Bearing mate they are about $14.00 aside completed sets i use ford bearings on mine and always pull them apart every 8-)3 or four trips or if it sit there more than 3 months and i always use Marine grease this seems to last longer and keeps your bearings in good condition

as for the salt in your bearing hit them with some mineral turps to clean them then repack them with marine grease this will keep the rust and corrision down to a min

Cheers ;D ;D
Steve 8-) 8-)

Thanks Steve,

But these bearings are not standard Ford bearings, that's why I am having a whinge. If only it was that simple.. ;)

Scalem

[blaze]

I would tell the dealer that supplied the trailer to rectify the problem as it is not what you ordered,
cheers
blaze

[stevedemon]

I know what you where saying Scalem this is the reason i suggested Beenleigh Bearing mate they have a good range if they do not stock them then they will get them in at the right price not like the trailer places that whack you for big dollars i'm lucky i only have to use strandard ford bearing so replacing them is easy but like any thing if you can make them last longer the more you save ;D ;D and the lest likely i am to brake down on the side of the high i always carry a spare set nowadays to keep me out of trouble as i have been there on the high waiting for a mate to been me down a set :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

anyway good luck with your dilema and hope it sorts itself out before xmas so you can enjoy some good quality time on the water

Have a good Xmas :) ;D :) ;D :) ;D :) ;D

Cheers ;D ;D
Steve 8-) 8-)

[marshy]

Thats no good at all scalem, looks like the manufacturer was trying to increase their profit by fitting imported oddball sized axle & bearings.Hopefully they will replace them with what you specified cause what they gave you is no good if bearing buddies don't fit & you cant buy replacement bearings easily. Good luck

marshy

[Kiktz]

Have to agree with Steve on this, the one only time I had a bearing fail I went to the guys at Beenleigh, GREAT FELLAS, Highly recommend them.

Soon understanding that I had no idea of bearing and their workings,
they explained to me what to do and gave me every thing I needed.
In such a desparate state they even gave me a few $$$ off,

What champions

Aj

[HarryO]

Hi Scalem.

Don'tcha just love incompetance? NOT!

Probably Hyundai bearings.

Common on the cheap axle sets.

If you have no joy, there should be some numbers
stamped on the side of the cup, and another on the side
of the cone.

The bearing companys will be able to cross reference these
to a known number.

Good Luck.

[Scalem]

Thanks guys,

I live at Loganholme, so it's 5 mins to Beenleigh. I'll check it out. I am not convinced the design is ideal for marine. If I can get a grease nipple on there and pump some in after every trip, that might keep the water out.

Might pay to keep a a spare too, I would not be very confident going long distance and being caught out because these bearings are much less common.

Scalem

[phewy]

Yes, post up the actual numbers on the bearings scalem. "Parallel bearings" I normally encounter in the aussie caravan/rv trade are actually Ford inners and same again for the outers. So they are actually the same bearings as used as inners in the normal ford or slimline axles. (should be stamped LM68149 and size should be 35mm (I think?)
Thought for a moment it may be bigger/higher capacity axle such as 1.5, 2 or 3T as used by some bigger or seriously offroad vans, but remembered they are still different sized inner and outer bearings. (and would be highly overkill for a 4.5mtr boat trailer).

Strange indeed.

[Scalem]

Yes, post up the actual numbers on the bearings scalem. "Parallel bearings" I normally encounter in the aussie caravan/rv trade are actually Ford inners and same again for the outers. So they are actually the same bearings as used as inners in the normal ford or slimline axles. (should be stamped LM68149 and size should be 35mm (I think?)
Thought for a moment it may be bigger/higher capacity axle such as 1.5, 2 or 3T as used by some bigger or seriously offroad vans, but remembered they are still different sized inner and outer bearings. (and would be highly overkill for a 4.5mtr boat trailer).

Strange indeed.

Phewy,

Good input, you sound like you know the industry well. I hope I get the time tomorrow to check the numbers..... and I have not done the other side. I would have today except I was racing to beat the storm/rain with the boat out in the open.

Back to you soon!

Thanks
Scalem

[Ron173]

Scalem,

I am like others above here who have said same thing therabouts.

You didnt get what you specifically asked for, therefore the dealer should be putting it right at his expense.

If he then so chooses to take it up with his supplier thats his call, but you certainly shouldnt be parting with another dollar.

good luck

Rgds

Ron

[griz066]

Rip it into him and get what you had asked, and thought you paid for :-X :-X :-X :-X

[Scalem]

Guys,

Went to Beenleigh and they had them in stock, so I bought 3 sets (one spare) and two extra rubber seals - Total cost $67.00. The part code is 30205.

I lodged a complaint on Saturday with the dealer, and they said they would call the manufacturer. By Tuesday, I started to imagine the Ostrich has buried his head in the sand, because I had heard nothing - no phone calls to me, not even to say they had tried to contact the manufacturer. I have rung a few times and wanted to speak with the manager of the dealer, but he is always "with someone." I rang the manufacturer and he is always "out" delivering new trailers to dealers. >:( >:(

I am getting the run around, and I know it. They must have labelled me as a whinger, and are too busy trying to get ready for Christmas. I have also bought a couple of grease nipples which i will tap into the dust cap, so after each trip I will pump some grease in. If this does not work, I will be re packing the hubs after every trip out. And how will I know if it does not work? It will be obvious if I lose another set of bearings because water has entered the hubs. Won't I be a happy chappy!!! :-/ :-/

Before anyone suggests not to sink the hubs when launching, I have tried..... and I have the chip off the bottom of the transom to prove it ( a home handyman repair to the gelcoat as a result), it's just too shallow to launch the boat without driving in a bit deeper. But I will risk damaging the transom again, just backing it off the trailer slowly.........

I might have half a solution, but it certainly gets on my goat to think you can pay for a new trailer ( I didn't barter on the price, paying full whack) and not getting the after sales attention I feel I deserve. I want what I asked for and expected. A Ford axle and hubs that I can fit regular bearing buddies to. I offered to swap them over myself. Whatever happened to good old "service"????

Sorry for the dull read, I really am cheesed off, and they will certainly be hearing from me in the new year. I think my buddies at the department of Fair Trading will have to get involved if I can't get any response.

Scalem

[mark221263]

Hi Scalem, sorry to hear about your woes!

I'd be carefulle fitting a grease nipple to a standard hub cap, bearing buddies have a spirng loaded piston in them so when you pump the grease in it can move forward against spring pressure allowing room for expansion etc.

If you pump a standard cap and fill the bearing cavity it will pop the cap off once things heat up a bit and expand on the highway for overload the seal, both situations worse than a standard bearing cap.

Until you get it sorted I'd highly suggest you use a good quality marine bearing grease with plenty around the seal faces and bearing cap. I might start a sh*t fight but I have not had good results with Castrol marine grease and now tend to use the ones made in the USA. They are much more tacky, bloody hard to wash of your hands and if you put some between 2 fingers and pull them apart will string a thread of grease for about 150mm.

With standrad caps and good grease you should get at least 12 months from a set of bearings.

Once sorted or not it would be good to know the dealer and manufacturer's names. You are allowed to state the facts so long as you are not derogitory and state things simple with "My personal experance has been" .

Cheers Mark

[finga64]

Where are they Brian ??...want me and my dogfish donger to go in on your behalf ;D.....go into the dealer and make a scene on Friday arvo or Saturday. Stuff the phone walk in and demand to see someone and you want it fixed properly.
It starting to sound a bit of a worry now with 3 dealers in this page od boating stuff giving clients the runaround.
Don't do the grease nipple trick. It's only going to give you more grief.
You should be able to let your boat off slowly (ie use the winch) so no damage is done and there's no need to drown the trailer.
We launch the big boat like that and it's a 5m and we don't get the rims wet.
Good luck matey

[gogecko]

Who made the trailer? Might as well tell us what brand to steer clear of.

cheers
Andrew

[HarryO]

G'Day again..

The 30205 is not a bad bearing set, (so long as its a good brand)
They fitted the rear of Mazda's and the like.

Not sure what load rating they have, tho.

A shame you can't fit bearing buddies to the hubs.

Personally, I'd be spewing. I would persist to see if
they are willing to do anything.

It may be possible to turn or sleeve the hubs so that they would fit.

Good luck.

Harry.

[sid_fishes]

can i ask who the dealer was[ sorry if i missed it inthe post] because right know [like everyone] i would want everything to be right so that you can enjoy your holiday break[ i hate sitting on the side of the road]. hope it works out all well cheers sid

[Scalem]

All very good suggestions guys, VERY GOOD!! ;) ;)

I will take advice as such.

1. I will back the trailer to the hubs, not sink them below the water line, and use the whinch to manage it. I will also lower the end centre roller, which is not actually load bearing once the boat is on the trailer.
2. I won't put grease nipples on the caps for now, but really pack the hubs so full of grease the water will find it hard to find a way in.
3. Harry O, your suggestion of sleeving the hub sounds like a brilliant idea, but not a home mechanic project by any stretch of the imagination. I imagine that you would have to tap a thread inside the hub, and make a sleeved washer with thread that is removable, so you can still replace the bearings when needed. The centre hole of that sleeve would then be the right size for the bearing buddies to fit. I reckon that's the best suggestion yet mate :D But I would need to take the whole hub to an engineering mob and have it measured up, which will cost more money!!
Anyone know a engineer/ metal worker who knows what we are talking about?

4. Scottie, the dogfish donger has crossed my mind several times, beleive me. The few years of Martial arts I've done would love to make a statement, but that's not the answer either. One of the reasons I chose this dealer to purchase the trailer from is because they are authorized Johnson service agents, which I have been considering for my next service on the donk. Now I am not so sure. For those that are wondering who the dealer is, it won't be too hard to work out now, I live at Loganholme and they are 10 mins down the road. I won't name names though, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the lack of response is something to do with the time of year when everyone in retail is flat out. But I did ring the guy who sold me the trailer, and gave him a rev up. See what happens, but still nothing heard. In the meantime I have a repack on the horizon ( it's on stands at the moment), so sometime over the holidays I might even get a chance to use it!!

I want to explore the idea of sleeving the hubs, thanks Harry. Any recommendations of who to talk to??

Scalem

[finga64]

Mate, being busy is NO EXCUSE.
Stuff them. They have your money and you haven't got what you asked for.
Mate, they would have been up you like a rat up a rafter if your cheque bounced so up them now.

To get the machining done is going to cost at least 5 or 6 slabs of beer.
A new axle and hubs would be a cheaper option.

But you haven't got what you paid for.
You spent enough money so why spend more for no reason.
If you brought a pack of salt and vinegor chips and got chicken instead I could understand letting it slide but this is a fair bit of money that could go towards, if not get, your new alloy baitboard.
That's probably a better way of thinking about it....either they fix it or you don't have a baitboard...
Option A, option B
If the axle and hubs are wrong how do you know the wheels/tyres are actually approved for aussie use or what the stud pattern is to get/use a spare??
More food for thought.
Baitboard or no baitboard :-?


If it's the same dealer I'm thinking about on the big roundabout on the way to the drive-in I had a bit of a spit the other week. I rang about prices for the VHF aerial and they quoted me around the $80 mark (can't remember the amount) and when I got there and grabed it and went to pay the price had jumped to $168. I spat and the price came down. Easy ;D
Make a noise in their busiest time....Saturday morning

[marshy]

Scalem, If you do have to keep that axle with the odd bearings you will be able to buy bearing buddies to fit but you will have to mail order them from the U.S. The Australian importers [to the best of my knowledge] only bring in one size which is 1.78 inch or just over 45 mm.The manufacturer makes a large range & I'm sure that they will do your size.A friend of mine imported some once for a trailer with Jeep hubs- over 2 inch.I tried a Google search but the bearing buddy web site is expired?.. iboats. com had a list of sizes. Hope this helps.

Marshy :)

[mark221263]

Hi scalem, check your pm's. If your not far away i'll knock you up some hub sleeves for a late christmas pressent!

[blaze]

Just go back to the dealer

[murf]

Hi Scalem

it is all sounding very complex and a lot of stuffing around and expence.

what happened to KISS?

for the price you just paid for the bearings you could have bought new HDG hubs complete with bearings in them. then only need an axle.

if you import the bearing buddies it will cost and Murphy's law says that you will loose one in the first week. (sorry if it does happen ::) )

GET what you asked for and keep it simple and cheap

the stress you will always have is not worth it. get a standard common setup.

have a great Xmas

cheers Murf

[rayken1938]

If you cannot get satisfaction and as a last resort there is a wholesaler down your eay at Logan River road. I dont know if I can Mention their name but you will find them on page 2789 of the current yellow pages they are very Active. ;)
Their prices are 50% below retail and they are extremely helpful. They may even be able to supply a drop axle that will make your boat easier to launch. It will just depend how much clearance you have on your mudguards.
Good luck i hope it doesnt come to this but it is an option.
Ray

[Deiter]

Scalem, forget all the other solutions - this is simple. Finga is spot on. You did not get what you asked or paid for. end of story. No negotiations.
Don't try and fix up their mess. What happens when you want a spare wheel/ hub/ axle? MORE stuffing around. Finga sounds like the man - let him come down with ya, heck, i'll come too, i am pretty good at these things. Really gets on my goat. >:(

Damo

[HarryO]

Scalem,

the guys are right, but if you have no joy, theres a mob
called Parker Drayson Engineering (BHSS) at Bowen Hills,
that we used to used regularly for all types of stainless
sleeving.

It may not need to be threaded, but you'll need to ensure that
the OD of the 30205 cup is not larger that the flange of the
bearing buddy.
That way, the sleeve won't hinder the cups removal come
bearing replacement time.

The ID of the sleeve should be 10 thou smaller than the
flange of the buddies, to ensure a firm fit.

They knurl the outside of the sleeves and press fit with loctite.

Guessing at a cost of $20-$30 per hub.


Harry.

[charleville]

I have to marvel at the quality of the information and advice offered in this thread.

Ain't the internet (and Ausfish, of course) amazing?! Where else would people without knowledge on this specific topic find such people with such specific knowledge on what is such a specialised topic.

Simply amazing!

:)

Good luck with the matter, Scalem. :)

[Scalem]

Gidday all,

1st I think I will start with the latest reply and work backward. Charlie, you are soooo correct in your comment. What advice is offered to me here is priceless. I have spoken on the phone to Mark221263, and I am happy with what we have planned after Christmas when we will be making sleeves to enable regular sized bearing buddies to work. Damo, Finga, this whole saga is not finished with you can count on that, as far as the dealer is concerned. I'll let you know when I go in. Your support will be appreciated on the day. I will choose my moment, and it will be when the dust has settled and I am in control of my emotions some time after Christmas. I won't be interrupted at the dealer yard by other customers or the dang phones ringing - just me, the sales guy who sold me the trailer and his boss. My wife just reminded me that one of the 1st things I asked was if I could purchase the trailer without wheels, me supplying them, because I had only recently bought new holden galvanized rims and put them on the old trailer ( when I originally thought Finga and I were going to patch it up ourselves, but it became too big a job) This is why, from the outset, I asked that everything to be holden rims and hubs. He replied that getting the trailer from the gold coast to Yatala was going to be awkward, and far more trouble than it was worth. "The trailer comes complete with wheels" he said. I replied that was OK, I might sell them or keep as spares....

I am looking forward to Christmas and a couple of weeks rest, I have plans to get the boat out a few times and take the kids skiing and forget about the bearings for a while, taking advice as many of you have written. Mark, I will get a tub of that American grease you told me about, and pack the hubs full. Finga, I'll back the rig only to the axle but no deeper, lowering the end roller so the boat goes into the water at less angle, and slower where before i was letting it roll off herself.

HarryO, you are on the ball, I really thank you! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Any more developments I will keep you all posted, but you are all probably tired of my ranting by now, but I feel much better about it all.

Thanks all [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] Have a fantastic Christmas!!

Scalem

[Poodroo]

It sounds like a potential M&G at the trailer mob. With 20 Ausfish members giving evil death stares about this whole matter they would be mad to not sort the problem out. :) (perhaps we could have a big sausage sizzle out the front while we wait for the trailer to be fixed). But it is so true what has been said. Trying to rectify and make things easier as a result of their stuff up is simply not an option. Not what you ordered so they have to fix it. No ifs or buts.

Poodroo

[rayken1938]

The one good thing about this episode is the way that members have bonded together to assist.
Merry xmas everyone.
Ray

[Ron173]

Scalem,

remember when your packing these bearings up to leave air space, they shouldnt be 100% full or they will over heat.

And keep at that dealer n dont go machining stuff, get it fixed properly with the hubs you wanted / asked for, if you went to consumer affairs he wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

Threaten that if need be

Ron

[Deiter]

It sounds like a potential M&G at the trailer mob. With 20 Ausfish members giving evil death stares about this whole matter they would be mad to not sort the problem out. :) (perhaps we could have a big sausage sizzle out the front while we wait for the trailer to be fixed). But it is so true what has been said. Trying to rectify and make things easier as a result of their stuff up is simply not an option. Not what you ordered so they have to fix it. No ifs or buts.

Poodroo

Poodroo, that is a classic - and not a half bad idea either.

Damo

[Scalem]

And we all thought this thread has expired, finished with????

Nup!!! I had to try get another Ford wheel for a spare, which this pair of wheels is...... Except!! Nobody but trailer manufacturers carry 13" Ford wheels. I could buy a new one for $70.00 which is overkill for a spare, but it took a heap of hunting around.. Moss Street wreckers, tyre places.... Eventually the guys in Aranda street whacked a 2nd hand low profile tyre ona 14" rim, charging me $35.00. I am assured this will get me home in th event of having a flat.....

The guy in Moss street said " You are the 2nd person today to ask for exactly the same thing" I hope the 1st guy is a member of Ausfish!! I feel sorry for anybody who has to face this debarkle themselves without the support of you guys who know - I am sure there will be more, as I learned of another trailer manufacturer who is importing the same combination of axle/hub/wheels from overseas, and knowing brand names of trailers, this brand is mainstream. It's criminal to import this stuff, they must know it is not standard and represents a lot of stuffing around as I have. I think they must beleive they are forcing people to come back to them to buy their bearings, their spare wheels and hubs at higher than normal prices. Not if I can help it, I won't come at that out of principle.. AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!! There, I feel better now ;D

Scalem

[peeler]

Great thread very informative

[finga64]

Did you get it all fixed up to what you ordered yet??

[Scalem]

Did you get it all fixed up to what you ordered yet??

Gidday Finga

No - I sent an e-mail that gives them till Wed, with dot points. No response, reply e-mail, phone call.... Nothing!! After that I might go down there with a printed copy of my e-mail and ask them why they don't reply in any way. Infuriating!!!!

I managed to get 3 trips in over the holidays, and successfully launched the boat without sinking the hubs or damaging the transom by being too shallow - I will investigate getting flanges made to which I locktite the bearing buddies into. .... Might work, I'm pretty confident Mark will have a solution, if that's the way I will head.

I can send you a copy of the mail if you like.

Scalem

[finga64]

Na, don't need to read.
I reckon Andrews idea should be a goer to get a responce ;D
i like sausage sizzles :D

[marlinqld]

dunbier are imported ford 13in rims.............my trailer is a dunbier.

$82 for a spare rim...........i told them where to put their rim......might go to aranda like you scalem

Mike

[marlinqld]

dunbier are imported ford 13in rims.............my trailer is a dunbier.

$82 for a spare rim...........i told them where to put their rim......might go to aranda like you scalem

Mike

[Scalem]

dunbier are imported ford 13in rims.............my trailer is a dunbier.

$82 for a spare rim...........i told them where to put their rim......might go to aranda like you scalem

Mike

MM, I sent more accurate details via PM. Yes, I knew there were a couple of other manufacturers doing the same thing. It really sucks! A 14" with low profile tyre is the best solution that will get you home in the event of having a flat.

Finga, the sad fact of my dilemma is that I didn't make my request to the dealer in writing, so it's my word against theirs. The weisel that sold me the trailer would probably deny I made the request re: the wheels and hubs ( although Lesley is my witness). Sausage sizzle sounds a great idea, but Mark's offer for a late Chrissy present has got the edge at this stage. - More stuffing around I know, but I probably should avoid bringing a match to a can of fuel, which best sums up my mood over the whole thing.

Happy days!!

Scalem

[marlinqld]

poodroo........have to use the Bold and the Beautiful stare mate...that works every time.......

especially the Sally Spectra stare :o.........shes one hard looking dude..........not that i watch the show you know ;D ;)


Mike ;D

[mark221263]

Hey scalem, still happy to help out when your ready

Cheers Mark