Put the big girls back

[Kuhlia_R]

Hi there, as I'm assured that the majority of readers would be aware its now the spawning season for a number of species. but my main regard is for the good old bream, every now and then i'll see in the media, someone with an esky lid packed with fat female bream all with the potential to spawn 100000-500000 and more back into the fishery. It disheartens me to see such a display. Im just wondering if its just me who feels this way about this issue. I enjoy letting them go just as much as catching them.

[Big_unit]

I would be inclined to keep maybe 1 or 2 of the big girls if I was after a feed but certainly not an esky full even if I did only fish once in blue moon. I cannot see any way to stop the raping of our waters unless the DPI implements some more effective strategies against this kind of thing. I dont think that a person who fishes once or twice a year has the right at breeding season to wipe out so many fish. Maybe there should be some more closed seasons implemented.

Cheers
James

[logan_whiting]

well

[agnes_jack]

Kuhlia
I would like to see a bag limit rather than a spawning closure.
Perhaps even a reduced bag limit at spawning time.

Regards, Tony

[Kuhlia_R]

Did I ever sugest a closure? I think that there should be some level of common sense applied to the right approach of maintaining fish recruitment. Im not saying that we as a large minority are pillaging reserves but if the media continues to advertise the wronge image we can only expect more fisher folk and new comers to take on what they've seen\heard. sure there is plenty of fish out there but if we all did what old charlie did last week Im sure it would create an impact that might effect future populations of fish. I to like a feed but if I had the choice of a Male and female fish Id let the female go, and If I only caught 1 fish and its was a big fat ripe female I wouldnt think twice about putting it back to finish its buisness. No offence to anyone by the name of charlie it was just fictional character for the purpose of discussion. Regards Duncan Gregor, AKA Khulia R.

[SURF_SNIPER]

Acanthopagrus berda ( sea/ pikey/yellow fin Bream ) are a very densely populated species, it estimated that they are able to double there current population within 1.4 years. they can reach ( a recorded ) 90cm in length and can reach a max weight of approx 3.2 Kg. they are found throughout the world.

placing a bag limit i think is not needed, nor closed seasons during spawning. im not saying that its ok to slaughter big bream during spawning, but think that the amount of bream recreationaly caught doesnt effect the survival of the species or harm its future.

im no expert, i studied aquaculture and marine biology/ resources managment for a few years so i know a little. how do we know that all these bream on the news etc are breeding females? ive caught heaps of big fat bream and tarwhine 1-1.5 kg which were males.

at what point/ stage do bream start and stop reproducing? ive also caught fish well under a kilo that have had roe.

any way, some things to think about

[PinHead]

You cannot really fit all that many fish on an esky lid..if a female has the potential to spawn 100000-500000 then taking some out of the system isn't going to do all that much harm. The average reco is flat out catching any fish so I really doubt much damage is being done to the stocks of bream...they have been plentiful for as many years as I can remember..is there absolute proof that C&R is completely successful, if not, then what is the difference between C&R and catch n keep..the fish dies anyway

[SURF_SNIPER]

aggree with ya pinhead

[MulletGuts]

how do you tell if it's a female without gutting it?

[Kuhlia_R]

Its quite easy to sex a fish during its spawning phase as when you find a male streams of milt will be found, its rarely anywhere near as fat as a fully roed female which does not produce milt obviously.the physical method could be done by a gentle manual stripping in which you suttley squeeze the fishes abdomen towards the vent, if white milky stuff comes out you've got yourself a boy if nothing comes out or thvent region is red and enlarged its a girl. I to am a student of Aquaculture, so I aslo Know a bit. Bream are a very slow growing species and it is estimated that a 30cm specimen can be between 10-20yrs old approx depending on location. So I could only guess how old a 90cm bream could be but Im sure it would be a great old age. Bream on the SE QLD coast can reach sexual maturity at 13cm which is a posible adaption current fishing culture. I wouldnt mind a keeper size bracket i.e. similar to barra and flat head. developed for this species somthing like 25-35cm being implemented as I find a 23cm fishes fillet just not worth it, Then maybe the odds of cathing and releasing quality sized fish over 40cm might be all that more possible. Sure it might sound like a lot of eggs but if only 5% survived to sexual maturity than things could change quite quickly. also it is proven that fish larva from a fully mature fish are much stronger and resistant to disease than fish from a first spawn run. We could just become complacent obout the whole thing, but its just a what if senario, if disaster strikes what then?

[SURF_SNIPER]

i do belive that the min length could be taken up as a 230mm bream is quite a small fish and there are plenty bigger then that around, our club has a min of 250mm however i still cant see a large enough impact being made by rec fisherman. as pin head said, a lot of the bigger fish dont get caught and from my experinces what do arent all females. so this needs to be factored in aswell. i doubt we would ever realy see the worst case scenario, but ya never know.

when their not spawning its a bit harder to tell so you could still be taking a big female

[basserman]

mate you want to ensure the bream for ever then there is one simple soultion that will see us being to fish for them all the time and that is to simply ban net fishing from all beaches ;)

[Daintreeboy]

Tony is on the money again here. What's the difference between catching a big bream 3 months ago and now when it's about to spawn? Either way, it misses out on breeding. Just because it got so close makes it a tragedy to some people. If the amount of fish being taken out of the system is unsustainable then change the bag limits. Think about it for a sec. Taking a fish 6 months before it breeds or 6 days makes no difference, it's the amount that matters. If more fish get caught during spawning then that's fine as long as they are within the regs. Science will help show whether the fishery is being looked after or not. Hopet hat makes sense.
Cheers, Mark.

[markpeta]

I'll stick with the rules at the moment and keep them. A rec fisherman going out and getting 6 bream once a week cant see much of an impact on the population. Are the guys running the prawn trawlers up the pine river throwing the bream back or are they allowed to keep them. If they throw them back most would die anyway. Duncan maybe these are the guys that should have more of our attention. Or even the no speak no english people that keep fish that don't even get to have one spawning sesion.

Mark

[banshee]

From what I've read any female fish put through the rigors of a fight on line,if heavily laiden with eggs,will abort the eggs due to the stress and lactic acid build up,so if someone has no drama killing them out of roe killing one in roe shouldn't make any difference.

[mackmauler]

yeh bream. im not to fussed, you can kill my share I dont mind.

[Sportfish_5]

How do those big ones slow troll ???

[joeT]

mate you want to ensure the bream for ever then there is one simple soultion that will see us being to fish for them all the time and that is to simply ban net fishing from all beaches ;)

Too true!

I can't see how the average rec fisher who catches half a dozen bream a week is even going to dent the population, compared to the tons of fish caught by pro fishermen every week.

[Burley_Boy]

90cm Bream :o :o :o

[agnes_jack]

I'm with Mackmauler!

You can have ALL of my share ;)

Regards, Tony ;D ;D

[nigelr]

Have to agree,Basserman and Joe T. But how can they be stopped, people want to buy fish and the pros are just doing their job........ :(??? :-/

[Kuhlia_R]

The points put out are all valid, I guess my real issue here is what the current new comers and next generation of bait danglers and lure flickers are exposed to when it comes to fishing expectations. With Australia having one of the highest populations of fishing folk and an ever increasing demand on current stocks, one would hope that old school tendencies are diminished and a greater level of fisheries respect will increase. But when a bunch of jetty rats see old charlie filleting 40 fish surely some of that will rub off and effect these kids mentality towards fishing as a whole. Theres a lot more to be had from this avenue of sport and recreation then just bragging rights.

[Daintreeboy]

yeah but filleting 40 fish is an illegal take isn't it? That's different, we're talking about the current bag limits and if they're sustainable. If some fool goes over the bag limit then it doesn't matter what the bag is, they've broken the law.
Cheers, Mark.

[hundgie]

What if some fish are a little like humans,you dont find the old males or females doing all the reproducing that just wouldnt work.Dont get me wrong im all for letting the majority of all fish go (only keep what you can eat while its fresh no need for a freezer full)but dosent it make sence that a young mature male would have far more furtile sperm than a really old guy and same goes for a female and here eggs.

[Leo_N.]

...but dosent it make sence that a young mature male would have far more furtile sperm than a really old guy and same goes for a female and here eggs.

No, not at all. Unlike humans the reporductive potential of fish is determined primarily by size. Small females can produce a much smaller amount of eggs than a large female because the visceral cavity is much smaller (less eggs can fit in her guts).

Just to clarify the species biology mentioned earlier. The East coast of Australia has at least two species of bream.

Acanthropagrus berda is the pikey bream - this is the one that can reach 90 cm and are distributed throughout the Indo-West Pacific.

Acanthropagrus australis is the yellowfin bream, which is endemic to the east coast of Australia, from Townsville to Gipsland Lakes.

While the pikey bream is thought to be gonochoristic (determinate sex), yellowfin bream are protandrous hermaphrodites (change sex from male to female). Therefore the large yellowfins are more likely to be female.

A lot of size limits are determined to allow at least one spawn before the fish can be removed from the population. However in populations that change sex from male to female, females can become over-fished quite easily. This is especially so in the case of yellowfin bream, as they congregate to spawn in areas that are very accessible and eat voraciously.

...and I have a few relevant qualifications as well...... ;)

[PinHead]

yeah but filleting 40 fish is an illegal take isn't it? That's different, we're talking about the current bag limits and if they're sustainable. If some fool goes over the bag limit then it doesn't matter what the bag is, they've broken the law.
Cheers, Mark.

If we are talking bream..there is no bag limit on them in Qld

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

i don't keep bream under a kilo - that makes them about about 30 - 35 cm the same as the tailor marks on my rods - at that size they fillet & skin quite nicely.

Brean are like pigeons - they thrive in man's shadow (as long as we don't pollute the water to much

[charleville]

but if we all did what old charlie did last week


Whaddya mean "old"?!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[james_noosa]

i agree with you kuhlia,
i'm really annoyed when i pull up at a boat ramp and see someone gutting a barely legal bream, throw it into a pile of barely legal bream then reach into his esky and start gutting another barely legal bream.
i agree also that they should stop portraying huge amounts of small fish in the paper and on tv.
we aren't the only people aware with this though, i was reading about this exact same topic in this months modern fishing magazine.

james

[Daintreeboy]

got me, I stand corrected 8)

[hundgie]

Leo_N. Sounds like you know a lot more about the topic than i do.Does my theory aplly to any fish that you know of.I have heard that this may happen to large flathead,but i still dont keep any bigins they dont taste as good anyway.

[Leo_N.]

Leo_N. Sounds like you know a lot more about the topic than i do.Does my theory aplly to any fish that you know of.I have heard that this may happen to large flathead,but i still dont keep any bigins they dont taste as good anyway.


Not as far as I know mate. Flathead change sex from male to female, the same as yellowfin bream, so the larger flathead are definately capable of contributing more to yearly recruitment.

[Mick]

With Rob and Tony.

Ya's can have all my share too. Haven't kept a bream since i was probably 15 years old. There are only 4 species of creek fish. Barra, Jacks, fingermark and crap. My livies are bigger then bream! :P

Mick