Should Snapper Size and Bag Limits be Increased

[SeaSaw]

This question has been going throigh my mind a bit over the past 6 months and I would be interested in other views. With the great catches of Snapper coming from everywhere, it has made me wonder if the snapper fishery would be sustainable with a higher bag limit offset with further increases in size limits. This would hopefully giving the fish plenty of time to spawn.

For offshore fishing, it would be great to keep a few more fish, given distances travelled etc.

On the down side, the mortality rate of released fish is not well understood, and there is the potential that this would just result in more snapper being released and then dying.

If you could change the size and bag limits, what would you vote for? I am interested to here reasons why as well.

Cheers,

Mark

[mackmauler]

no and throw in a closed season as well.

[logan_whiting]

i flat out getting one 35 in the southen bay !!!!! come on

[basserman]

yep raise it to 50cm 60cm even better and only one fish :P

agree with rob a closed breeding session would be great here in NSW

[webby]

The way the snapper populations is being decimated of late, make you wonder if half the breeding stocks are being wipe out, as some just constantly pound the same populated areas.
Yes its been a good 12 months for them. But these cycles only seem to come around every 3-4 years or so.
No need to increase the size or the limit of 5 , but put a closure on them during the winter months the same as for some of the other coral reef species around the full and new moons, so as to give some respite during there most active periods.
regards

[chanquetas]

Closed season....give them a chance. The best thing to do really though is to buy back a few more fishing licenses, and reduce the rape and pillage by the pros.

[straddie]

Hi SeaSaw, increasing the bag limit and size limit is really just moving the distribution more into the favour of the guys that are already getting good catches. Mean while Joe Average that fishes the bay has to churn through even more unders just to get a legal fish.

I wouldn't like to see a totally closed season, even if it was only a 1 fish limit for the period so the guy that latches onto that once in a life time fish can keep it if he chooses.

[-spiro-]

well Mark i have lost my thought train on this.
We have also thrown a cat in amongest the piegons with a clossed session.
This will get more interesting im sure of it.
Waitting on the out comes ;D

[SeaSaw]

Thanks, some very good points raised already. I have modified the poll to include an option for a closed season to see how much support there is for one.

Mark

[markpeta]

Just because there are a few extra posts on snapper catches this weekend people get into a panic. If there are as many out there as shown by the posts doesn't that mean that what is in place now is working. I'm not going to spend the dollars to go out and kiss the fish good bye or take one home. Half of the time the fish is buggerd from bringing it up from 60-80m lets throw some more shark food out better in my boat I reckon.

Mark

[willbarra]

40cm 5 only and a closed season

[620sf]

Good topic Mark, i think this season we are having a top snapper run right up the coast with everyone nailing some good catches. Maybe this is becaused of the 5 per person bag limit and size of 35cm.

i know what you mean by traveling 50 odd km catching 10 or 15 snapper between 2 or 3 and thinking what do we do now, but i like the idea of 5 per person, for us it gives us a good feed of fish for a couple of weeks and by next trip we can do with a bit more fish in the freezer.

The thing i would like to see is them policing it alittle more back at the ramps on a good day, couple of hours here and there. It keeps the ego's of some fisho's within limits.

Luke

[NeilD]

The notion of a closed season should be looked at if the fishing effort is disturbing spawning aggregations. A week either side of the full moons during winter may do the trick.
I think a 35cm squire is pretty small for offshore but I am quite proud of them on softies inside the bay.
Five fish is good for a feed and if you are trying to catch more fish than the fuel and bait cost to get them then perhaps you are fishing for the wrong reasons.

Neil

[damons33]

i think from what i see at the ramp, the "average joe" has trouble getting five even at seasons peak!
and the amount of fish around suggests there isn't an issue with over fishing on the hard reefs. Except for inshore on the goldie and the sunny coasts....where it is rumoured that some pro's have been conducting illegal drift netting/gilll nets :-(.

I don't like taking fish smaller then 45cm as when you fillet them, you don't get a hell of alot off them. ideally fish in the 4 to 6kg class are the best for fillets.....smaller stuff eaten whole.
the current bag limits are a good deterant to shamatuers because of the fuel costs associated in getting to the good grounds...eg-barwon banks.
fish is best eaten fresh, so if you catch 5 fish average of 3kg you get around 8kilos of fillets, how much more do you need? as brownie say's "dont destroy what you love and enjoy".
i think a maximum size bag limit would be a better way of futher controlling amatuers say 2 fish over 75cm and 5 between 40cm and 75cm.
another way could be rotational based annual spawn time closures on certain reef areas to guarantee that all of the "micro-environments" maintain there vigour.
Lifting the crazy grey nurse protection zones,the real damage was done during the shark finning days that the fisheries managers failed to stop in time to save the grey nurse shark, it is on its way out in these waters and its too late baby now! as there is not sufficiant numbers to maintain them as it now stands 60 sharks ain't going to make 2500 at flat rock not with their reproducive cycle the way it is you need to do something artificially in tanks mixing eggs and sperm from adjacent reef areas to stop inbreeding........like people from burpengary ;-p. i think i just wet my pants!lol

but i like the current closures untill rotational seasonal closures are introduced.

one year you could close say, shallow tempest for 3months of the winter spawning time, then next year move it to smiths rock and the following year up at hutchies, if that was done you'd see a lot more quality of all of the fish species local to those areas...not just snapper, i myself am more concerned with spangled emperor numbers then snapper around the cape you don't see as many smaller fish like i use to, or coronation trout or red throut emperor. just snapper after boring old snapper again and again and again.
::)
damon ps-Will, i don't think we are talking about your waters, down there you got a real issue of lack of sizable fish haven't you? to revive the days of good reds in sydney harbour and long reef will take some real wise and strong management from the n.s.w fisheries dept. as a boy i remember seeing snapper caught from long nose Pt, some in "old man" calibre. brisbane to the greater extent is protected by "distance" as from the closest to the cape spawn areas is 45km by sea going boats(excluding moreton island launching and at $150 per barge ride i don't think its a worry ;-).

[chanquetas]

On the other hand does 1 person NEED 20 fish?

[dfox]

I,d be careful what you say on this issue, theres already been a number of changes implemented in very resent time.
Firstly weve had the size increase from 30 -35cm which i guess everyone was more then happy to see, this gives the fish at least 2 years of spawning before reaching a size that can be kept.
Then we had bag limits reduced from 30 -5 fish, this alone had a major impact on the amount of greed that some anglers seemed to thrive on.
The GNS closure areas are all major spawning areas for snapper, and its only a mater of time before some major south east queensland offshore closures are implemented. Imagine if over a third of the banks, hards ,wide coloundra, 12 mile, noosa reefs, murphy's,deep tempest, DI etc reefs are closed to fishing indefently.And this will happen just like the GBR. I bet this would have a big impact on your success rates.
Then theres the possiabilities on placing a maxmium size of say 55cm on the fish as well, wouldnt that open a can of worms.
Ive been fishing the last few months at shallow tempest, hendersons, wide caloundra, the banks, the hards, off of D I and at every location ive bagged out on large knobbies with ease and released hundreds unharmed, all i see is an extremely healthy offshore fishery, Any changes could only be detrimental to all you fellow fisho's and lead to tighter more restricting conditions.
None of us want to see the day when we cant head out to our favourite winter offshore locations and enjoy the pleasures of finding,fighting and catching and eating one of our favourite fish.
Lets keep things in prospective, its a bumper year, not every year is! Enjoy it. The current restrictions are working.
Unless we start seeing reports on how no-one is catching snapper, i'd be more concerned about the main issues of water quality, closures and the like... catch ya ...foxy

[gropeher]

Dfox,
I agree with everything you say,
We have had a number of poor seasons in the past and all of a sudden we have a bumper season and the panic button seems to get pushed, Leave the limit as it is now as it seems to be working. One thing is we also dont know the survival rate of all the fish we release, imagine if you then had to start releasing all snapper 45 or 50cm.

[blaze]

In Tassie we have no bag or size limit, I have just spend a great deal of time to get a bag limit brought in for september this year. copped a lot of flack from some people for that
cheers
blaze

[nils_desporandum]

closed season during spawning
put size limit back to 30cm(inside bay)
keep bag limit @ 5
more closed areas
we are watching and contributing to the extinction of a species

[Smithy]

I sort of go along with 620SF. Lets hope the bag and size limits are working. I also agree about more policing at the ramps. On the weekend we could have loaded up but we did recounts about 3 times in the boat and still stuffed up coming in 2 Pearlies under to be legit. If we weren't honest we could have gone to town. What I hate is when and honest person gets caught out with a fish that shrinks 1cm or they are accidentaly one fish over due to counting. I know it has happened to me once we have got home and had a recount or remeasure. It is easy to do accidently, luckily we have only been gone through once by fisheries up at Fraser Island with the exact amount of Spotties onboard for the 4 of us onboard. Meanwhile all the Shamatuers are sneaking in and selling it on the black. Remember when you meet fisheries they have discretionry powers. Be yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir and they will soon work you out.

As a side note we tagged something like 23-28 Snapper Saturday night in 118m of water up to 75cm. It will be interesting to see how they go. They were coming up aok, only one small one had bulged eyes. I wouldn't be all gloom and doom about fish survival. I tag hundreds of fish a year and let me tell you they are pretty tough critters when they need to be. We weren't just tagging willy nilly either. We were tagging as part of a Release Fish Survival Project. You may have seen the ET Ettinghousen ads. The first we got up we were using a drop shot on them to release them back down deep so they could equalise themselves. The next one we vented to expel the air and the third we just tagged and let go. Number 4 was drop shotted again and so on and so forth. It will interesting to see which method is best when a few recaptures show up. Also remeber that most damage is done baurotrauma-wise in the last 10m. If you have them away from the reef and no sharks are up their clackas take it easy on them bringing them up that last 10m. Plotting it on a graph that last 10m is like a log scale doubling in pressure for every metre or something.

[zepp]

In nsw the limit is 10 fish over 30cm, i think for the honest fisherman who will not throw the dead smaller fish overboard when bigger ones are caught, this limit is quite ample, remembering it is the big muthas, not the squire that are the good breeders. As for an off season, excellent idea around spawning time, as this are when snapper are most active.
mick

[bugman]

GDay Mark,

I think the first thing you can discount is the current capture success having anything to do with the changes to size and bag limits made only 18 months ago.

With a growth rate of anywhere between 2 and 5cm a year, those changes would have little or no impact on the numbers of 60-80cm fish being caught this year. As everyone has stated - it's been a good year - the question I'd like answered is where have these fish been for the last 5-10 years (who knows).

As mentioned earlier in this thread any changes to regulations must take into account your average mum and dad fisher who doesn't own a 6m boat and is unable to get out to the barwons but still wants to take home a feed of snapper. Believe me that is a very very big consideration when Govt committees sit around drawing up size and possesion limits. That basically rules out a big jump in the size but I wouldn't be unhappy laying money on an eventual rise to 40cm in the next 3-5 years.

Targetting spawning aggregation is pretty much the buzz fishing management tool of the time and I'd lay good money we'll see the introduction of winter full moon closures eventually. I remember posting here a toungue in cheek look at would could happen if we go down the path of closing certain areas for fishing. It was in the thread related to the proposed NSW diving closures.

Anyway would anyone be agreed to the permant closure of certain areas known to hold resident snapper - Deep Tempest and Hutchies would be two of interest.

As a side note I remember speaking to a very senior fisheries manager about 18 months ago who told me that the decline of snapper stocks in Queensland was probably the biggest issue facing the state's fishery. This was a guy that gets all the research and works closely with people in the pro and rec industry. I remember he mooted at the time some draconion measures to try and save them - bag limits of 2 and size limits of around 45cms.

I wonder what he's thinking this year.

Bugman

[Kiktz]

I think leave bag limits and sizes where they are, but I have to agree with a closed season. Sure its going to be a pain for the short term but the longer term pay offs will far out way

[steve_n]

Leave it as it is. We have had enough changes to size and bag limits over the past couple of years. Give everyone a chance to get used to them and see if they do what the legislaters hoped they would do. What if next year is a poor season? Do we then increase the bag limit and decrease the size?
Steve

[Thunderbird]

If you up the size it still doesn't stop the fish that are caught and die in nets. so maybe a closed season is the only way to go.
I think the size limits should be increased also, as there a pretty hardy fish and survive well after release.
35cms is a pretty small fish considering they grow much larger than that.

[Cheech]

If the snapper size increases, it will pretty much make snapper fishing the exclusive domain of offshore fishing. You just do not get that many big fish in the bay. Do not be deceived by the posts of big snapper caught in the bay. You will also notice that the same person does not post them week after week. (ok, there are a couple of gun fisho's, but they are the exception). It can give a false impression of catches and ease of catching them.

And even if it is increased to say 40 or 45, these are often released when fishing offshore because you know there are bigger fish to get.

Increasing the bag limit is irrelevant for most snapper fishing. In the bay you would be lucky enough to get one or two legal fish. You will almost never get 5, let alone 10. The most I have caught in the bay in a session was 4 legal fish.

Just my thoughts,

Cheech

[Bearded_Clam]

nsw are thinking about 32cm

[BigCods]

Mark,
I'm sure you expected plenty of debate on this topic and it is one that will probably hang around for a while to come yet. Being an offshore fisho the dilema is that you invest a lot of time and money into trips so u want to come back with a decent feed while also wanting to see a continued healthy fishery. I wouldn't be surpirsed if the regulators introduce a closed season and I'm also inclined to think along your lines Mark with an increased minimum size. From a bag limit perspective though I would surely be happy with 5 decent snapper for the freezer (more than a good meal) and then go looking for other species (parrot, pearlies etc) to put some diversity in the esky.

[Kiktz]

I'm just curious.....

We talk about alot of difference subjects on this site. All in the own way carry different weight. With a topic such as this which can be debated till the cows come, but more importantly other topics that to us the every day fisho carry alot of weight re pro netting in the bay and others like it.

What do we do about this? Is there any feed back to QLD Fisheries or goverment body that takes heed of our comments.

Excuse me if I am a lil out of line here but most of the guys that are on this site have very good knowledge about fishing and the every day do's and don'ts. I have not heard alot about the fishing party and what they actually do, but is this where they get their info from to support and US?

Is this site (and not trying to take anything away from it in any respect)
like having a conversation with a mate that you debate a topic and then nothing is done about it.

Cheers Aj

[Somethn_Fishy]

raise the size limit to 45 cmand drop the Bag limit to 3.

Too many fish killers out there.

Also NSW should definately increase from 30 and ten.....

[blue_rogue]

I think you blokes are carrying on a bit here!

Couple of reasons:

1. I don't think this year is any better then others, and it has been a cracker of a season.

2. Most blokes can't catch 5 snapper

3. The current regulations are more than adequate.

If the regulations are tightened up much more in will become pointless going out to catch a feed. And finally on tagging big snapper and throwing them back; I think you are turning them into shark bait. Yes, they may live for a while, but they are pretty bloody doey from the stress of the capture and are and become an easy target for the sharks.

Leave the current rules alone,

Good fishing

[once_bitten]

40cm and keep 5

[sacman]

How many snapper are we talking about here ? The average ausfish member probably fishes twice a month and averages no more than 2 fish per trip. Even at a popular area like hutchies the number of snapper caught on a busy weekend would not be more than 30 odd by recreational fishers. Of these only 4 or 5 boats would have bagged 5. So changing the present regulations could affect say 10 of these fish at hutchies over an average weekend. There has to be a more important area to direct all the attention that this topic generate as it is not the recreational fishers that have a big impact on the snapper population. A poll showing how many snapper the average ausfish member catches in the season together with the average amount of money spent chasing them might help send the attention in the right direction.

[joeT]

In my life, I've only ever caught 7 legal snapper, 6 of them this year (well, it was last week ;D). If the limits were raised to 45cm, then it would just be one. Common guys, ease up on the lower end fisherpeople, not everyone can get out to hutchies, and not everyone catches big fish. I try damn hard, I bought a boat, all the good gear, out most weekends. If I can't catch a legal fish with this sort of effort, then I might as well give up. Imagine a casual land based angler, he'll never take home a legal snapper to eat.

If you add up all the snapper caught by ausfish members this year, it wouldn't add up to anywhere near the numbers caught by one pro trawler in a week (you guys don't catch that many fish do you?). Just reducing the number or quota on a couple of pro boats would make more difference on fish numbers than banning all ausfish members from snapper fishing.

I don't know why people have an impression that rec fishers have the capability of destroying fish populations. Just read back at the post about the tunnel nets at mud island. That sort of activity is what reduces fish numbers.

[The_Tub]

Hows it going fellas?
For the first time in a few years! i didn't enter the evans head comp :'( :'(
I fish out of evans/ballina

there was a good sea running early!
Itried for the previous week to get out, but work , and the leader of the opposition made short work of that :-/ ??? ???

I have been out several times ,and the place is barron :-[

I heard of a couple of blokes at the comp that flilled two of freezers of snaps
what is that bull fn%%% shi&&t
I think whats in possession,and the size limit is better than it has been.
temps right and current any deeper and the jackets flog you

[theoldlegend]

This is a hard one!! Anyway, here's my thoughts and questions. Are snapper migratory or do they tend to stay in the one spot? I don't know. I've heard that the ones pulled up from down deep may not have much of a chance if they're put back. Once again, I don't know. If they do stay in the one spot, and they don't survive after being thrown back, then the population might decrease pretty quickly.

Therefore, if the size was reduced by say 5cms, then a throwback might turn into a keeper. This is in deep water, but I don't think it would be an issue in the shallower water. A closed season might help also. Maybe the DPI Fisheries might have some data on this stuff. I should send them an email and see if they've got anything.

TOL

[RICHO]

As a bay fisho, I'll give you another option.
35cm and a bag of 5 stays. I think is starting to show benefit already. But, the bag of 5 includes only 1 fish over 50cm or maybe 60cm at the most. This will keep the BIG breeders around. After that, look for another fish variety.
There does need to be some research on death of released fish or all this is of no use if you put back a fish and it packs it in any way.
Richo

[bignick]

I would say an increase in size to 40cm with a bag limit of 10 would do the trick. However, a 40cm Squire is a pretty good fish and the Moreton Bay fishos (of which I am one) would probably be loath to throw back a 39cm fish; they already hate throwing back 34cm models. Possibly the larger size fish may, when released, have a better chance of survival being physically bigger and stronger. Also, it should give the fish more spawning opportunities.

Cheers,
NICK.

[vertico]

what does everyone think about a maximun size ?

[outsiderskip]

squire up to 2kg 5
snapper 5

[dfox]

Unlike some other species that are exclusively Female when large snapper arent.. The goal of every snapper fisherman is to nail that often cunning and dirty fighting monster fish, theres alway exceptions to the rules but in general the large fish 8-9-10plus kilos take some catching and dont come easy. School snapper like those being caught of late 2-7 kg are relatively easy to catch, but the bigger ones make you work both once hooked or just getting them to take a bait. Id hate to see the day when the angler wasnt given the option to keep his targeted specimen. Bay fisherman or offshore most target or dream of that 10kg fish.
Ive scuba dived in many of our popular fishing locations and seen many xxxos snapper, but few of them seem to be caught on rod and reel.
So to sum up a max. size i say no. ...foxy

[blueringin]

well weather u like it or not things will change up in sunny qld,down here in frosty SA we have had to get used to a bag limit of 2 fish over 60cm and 2mths closed season ,and wheras u lot can catch Pearlys/parrot/macks/cod/and wathaveu we got stuff all else to catch,big fish wise >:( so if i go out and catch 2 biggies well im home in a flash but down hear a biggie can go 40 pounds so if i catch just the 1 i come home contented

[gawby]

Well heres my 2 bobs worth,
The cost to go out off the gold coast chasing these fish is no bother to me as i do it as a relaxing pass time.
I think the size limit could be raised as at present 35cm dosnt give you much of a fillet nor is it muck cooked whole.
At the end of the day, how much fish can you eat and it dosnt taste the same coming out of the freezer.
Brejen and myself throw a lot of fish back, all species as we would rather catch and keep quality instead of quantity. We have had a few trips outside and produced nothing. The day out on the water with no catch is still a good day for me. ;D
Graeme.

[FNQCairns]

Does anyone understand that increasing the size limit for rec anglers will make bugger all difference if any and this goes for any species targeted heavily by both rec anglers and the commercial industry ???.
There is a hell of a lot of water/ground out there and fish are still animals burdened with all the basic ecological rules that apply to animals, if a rec fisherman takes his bag limit every trip for a year it is important to realise it would not make a registerable blip in any way upon the entire population or it's makeup.

Basic principles of ecology are at work under the ocean surface regardless of popular political concerns.

The driving force behind limits for the gov is for it ensure it give less of its property away tax free, they must see a direct profit as it must in any natural resource industry.

It's nice to be concerned but one has to recognise that unless each rec fisherman takes a commercial quantity of any popular fish species they really do not make a measurable dint over a sensible time frame or area. Especially so under the laws that exist today for rec anglers.

To put it another way- think of ants, grasshoppers even Kookaburras or minor birds where the primary consideration for population growth/maintenance is territory (competition) and food availabitlity, considered K selected species from memory (it's been a while). I would assume that most popular and naturally prolific species of fish are also K selected in nature.

Anyway Commercial fishing is THE problem and until many honest individuals at a high level come into fishery's management and we as rec fishers stop believing the popular culture on fish limits nothing will actually change for the betterment of fisho's. Believe it!
fnq

[blueringin]

Well down here in SA we are only allowed 2 fish over 60 cm which is fair enough and something we all try to come to grips with,then we have the whyalla big snapper comp,upwards of a 1000 ppl converge on the reefs trying to win the $2000 big fish award >:(big friggin deal) eh,ppl from vic bring there $50000, boats,and $50000 4x4 to catch a fish that is a great fish to catch and eat, but there are only so many over here and a 30lb fish is supposed to be around 30/to 40 yrs old so i am bloody angry that the organisers dont give a shit what we say and just keep doing it year after year