dropper knot strength

[Tony_N]

Managed to get out before dawn yesterday and lost two big fish ( I'm calling them Jewfish). Both pulled line from a preset 4kg drag before my leader (40lb Jinkai) broke at a dropper rig knot. #It could be argued that I might have skulldragged a bit on both occasions (might have used a bit of thumb because we were in quite reefy territory)

I did some serious knot testing today with 20lb Penn 10X leader material and found that the standard dropper knot was breaking consistently at 10lb. #Most other appropriate knots I tested also broke at 10 -12 lb. #I found a Kiwi dropper knot that was supposed to be 94.8 % strength - #but it also broke at 10lb.

http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/fishingknots/plat_fishing_knots.html

For anyone having similar problems my best solution was to tie swivels to the leader material (later to tie #a single line to the hook from the swivel) with a series of Palomar knots # ie use the tag end of a palomar to continue down the rig to the second and third section where the "loop" would normally be made. This broke (as did the uni knots I tied at the ends #to do the testing) at 18 - 20 lb making it the strongest of several knots tried.

Hope this makes sense

Tony

[finding_time]

Giday Tony

I did a similar test no long ago as i had problems with dropper knots failing i always used the standard panernoster loop thinking it was stronger but after abit of testing i found that a figure of 8 knos had about 25% more strength than it. Have you tried the figure of 8 dropper for strength?

Ian

[Tony_N]

Giday Tony

Have you tried the figure of 8 dropper for strength?

Ian

G'day Ian - yeah its a dilemma when you lose good fish to bad knots. #I figured that I just must have tied them poorly but I was very careful with my test knots and I was very surprised by the results. #BTW not wetting the knots changed a knot that broke at 10 lb to one that broke at 8 #- #I only did this once.

No I didn't try the fig 8 #but I did try the the surgeons end loop which is not dissimilar and the Blood Bight (which is supposed to give 90+ %). #Both came in at an unacceptable 50% using my methodology


Have just found the Spider Hitch which might be worth trying - but generally I'm pretty convinced on the Palomar to a swivel and extending the tag end to the next swivel(s) and then on to the sinker.

cheers

Tony

[krazyfisher]

have you used a twisted drop rig I have never had any problems with them, but i am using heavier line.

[Leo_N.]

Have you thought of buying shares in a swivel company? With all those droppers coming off your rigs you might need them. #8-)

I know you like to fish a bit lighter, but have you thought of going up to 60lb leader? That is what I use on the reef and I think that you have seen the results. I just use the standard dropper knot though. Don't know if it is stronger than the twisted one??? Must check Geoff Wilson's book on that one.

[Tony_N]

I've been using the twisted dropper knot on 40lb line for years and caught lots of quite decent fish icluding jewfish and cobia on them. Just over the last few weeks though I have had several breakages on the dropper knot - mostly when caught on the bottom - but now on two big fish. Can't figure whats changed, but cant see myself trying to fish with 60lb twisted droppers (quite apart from anything else I don't think my Big Red 4/0s have big enough eyes for that) - 40lb is heavier than I'd like.

Leo, looks like I'd better take out those shares in the Shogun company. Takes some serious time to make the rigs up as well.

[Leo_N.]

I just remembered that I got a bad batch of jinkai a while back that kept breaking. It is supple, but probably not as strong as other brands. Maybe the old leader was a bit weak from expopsure and you got a bad batch when you got the Jinkai? Too much of a coincidence maybe?

[Leo_N.]

What is the go with the time on my last post? It isn't 10 pm yet, and my computer clock is set correctly. ???

[Tony_N]

Dunno - says you posted it at 8.05 today on my readout.

Contacted MO tackle and they have 3-way black swivels - might try those - or even a black ring (not split ring) would work.

Good luck with the suspension on your pathfinder today

[billfisher]

Hate to put a fly in the ointment but I gave up using those 3 way swivels. I found out they can weaken after a couple fell apart in my hands. I have been using dropper knots and haven't had any problems. I have been busted up a few times by kingies, but the line did not break at the knot. I'm not sure what knots you are using going by thier names. Mine is from Geoff Wlisons knot book. You start out with a half hitch then keep passing the end through the loop about 10 to 12 times. Then you pull the loop through the middle of the overlaid line.
I might do some testing with scales after reading your comments.

[billfisher]

Well I have just done some testing. My main line tested at 10kg. I then tried a dropped loop in the rig with the loop cut (ie just a single strand dropper). It broke at 6.5 kg, a 35% drop. I then tried a dropper with the loop uncut, it broke at 7.8 kg.
After doing this I might have to rethink my rigs. The single strand rig is too much of a drop. Though you could negate this by using a heavier breaking strain for your dropper rig. Other alternatives are using the double section for droppers or if I'm worried about the fish being put off by the thicker line I will go back to using swivels. I might just use 2 way swivel and join 2 line to one end.