Best In The Business

[Fafnir]

I have not been a member of this site for long, but I have been logging on to it for many years. Recently I have noticed that a handful of people have been unhappy about censorship and the such. Just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in …

It’s not cheap to run a site like this, and it’s unlikely to ever make anyone a millionaire. It is a business, but also a passion and I for one think that Steve has done a tremendous job in providing these forums for anglers.

One of the things that makes this site so successful are the moderators. Yes, people might get annoyed about being censored, but it is done to stop this chat board becoming a slanging match between members. Other chatrooms that I have watched over the years are not happy friendly environments. They lack the support and camaraderie that one gets a sense of with this site.

Some people may choose to no longer remain members, but the reality is that sometimes a cleanout is good to keep things fresh. If people get to the stage where they are taking a fishing chatroom so seriously then it’s probably a good thing to log off. I for one will continue to support Steve and this fantastic site. I have looked at many, but found none better. Congratulations Steve and your fellow moderators, you should be proud of the site you’ve created.

PS There is nothing lower in this world then using another persons hard earned database for your own personal gain. The grass may look greener, but people will soon realise how sour it tastes.
PPS I am happy for this post to be moved or deleted, just wanted to have my say.

[familyman]

Here here fafnir ,well said and welcome to the site now that you can reply to posts.
cheers jon

[wiseguy67]

well said

[roz]

Fafnir,

You have summed up the situation perfectly, you are also very observant.

I hope certain people get to read your words of wisdom, and maybe realise the world doesn't revolve around them.

I for one, will continue to support this site as I've gotten so much from Ausfish and I've made some fantastic friends here.

The reality is there will never be another site like this one....not in a million years!!

Cheers everybody ;)

Roz.

[SeaSaw]

There are some great people on both sites. Forget the politics, its all about the fishing and the people you meet. I will be posting on both locations ... just means more time on the cuta ;D ;D

Mark

[dorado]

Well said mate. Fwiw I too will continue to support this site but will also check out other sites from time to time. I have no intention of leaving Ausfish...heck if I did I'd havta remove the Ausfish decals from my Rig and you'd still see it from where the paint has faded around it :P

[imported_admin]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

I was going to stay out of all this but apparently if I don't say anything I get into trouble anyway.

Members agree to abide by the rules of the site when they join. If they choose to break those rules then they pay the consequences. It is really that simple. Myself and the mods that donate their time in helping run this site do not have time to answer every single question about why someone got banned. They are an adult/child and know the difference between right and wrong.

I also get over 2500 E-mails a day, mostly spam, and my spam filter more often then not gets a bit carried away and some E-mails that shouldn't be deleted get deleted. The PM box is set to 20 messages and sometimes I will get that in a few hours and some get pushed off the end before I see them. So if I have not replied to an E-mail or PM from someone asking why someone/they got banned it could be because I did not get it or because it is a matter between the Member and me to discuss not the rest of the world.

Most people will say that there are 3 sides to every story (yours, theirs and the truth). Hence why I have not bothered to enter into any of the crap that has gone one lately. As I have said before, they know why they were banned and I will leave it at that.

Since the upgrade there has been a recycle bin introduced where all the deleted posts go so we have a copy. This way when a post is deleted a Member can't say that they didn't say this or that as we still have a copy of the post.


There is plenty of room for fishing websites on the World Wide Web. If someone wants to join another website then they can do as they please. If someone wants to join several websites, as some members do, then that is up to them. If some one wants to open up another website they can do that as well.

But nothing justifies spamming a website with posts or PM's telling people about other websites. I am sure that you would not like someone going into your place of work telling everyone to go down the road.


This is all I will say on the matter. If anyone wants to make some constructive comments please feel free. But if you want to abuse or insult members or break any of the rules of this site your post will be deleted and you will be banned.

If you want to read a copy of the rules that you read and agreed to when you registered you can see them at
http://www.ausfish.com.au/cgi-ausfish/yabb2/YaBB.cgi?num=1075278500

[Sportfish_5]

Steve

Thanks for taking the time to reply to this issue. It is very true there is always many tales when trying to get the truth. I can tell you that the guys do not know exactly why they were banned and that is what they want to understand. Maybe both parties are not getting the information they require from key players in this.

Maybe this is a good opportunity to review the facts from both sides as to me there seems to be a lot of issues behind the scenes that not everyone is privy too. No doubt you have looked at the TFGA site and like it or lump it there seems to be a common theme appearing - otherwise there would not be so many joining it. It is the core people who make this site what it is and not the total number of registered users.

I hope this can be resolved and we get back to talking fishing and not the "Soap Opera" it has become lately. If not then the people will make their own choices of course.


Cheers

Greg

[noluck]

Steve, u say u have copy of deleted posts mate can you please post info
so we can see for ourselfs why so many have been banned, i do no believe it mate that
you could ban so many big post members who contribute so much to your great site
mate, they will go else where and we all loose then
the other site has alos been spammed same as yours mate so let it go
both
are top site and we just want to go fshn and talk fishn no crap.


cheers no_luck

[cobber1]

many a member has been banned with NO explanation.

Basserman was indeed banned for asking the very question "what rule did I break?"

To simply say "As I have said before, they know why they were banned and I will leave it at that" is not actually true and correct.

I full expect my membership to be banned aswell after this non confrontational and non abusive post.

[wayneoro]

okay guys ive seen some of this from another angle i have 150 posts on this site and 90 posts on another site though both sites are for fisherman they are very different i enjoy them both hard core fisherman af is best by far the other site is more social the guys that were banned came to the other site but they charged in butted heads now they have there own site i for one will not be joining it why do anything that detracts from a great fishing site like ausfish

[Jeremy]

I support ausfish. Best fishing chat site bar none.

Jeremy

[finga64]

Beauty fafnir,
I think that the bad weather has taken it's toll on everyone.
Weathers getting better, we're all getting out more, the world is looking better in general :)
Let's leave all the political/relationship garbage behind and look into the future.
I've read/heard some really bad things happening. All this does is make everybody tense. There's no need for that, no need at all.
I did a search yesterday for fishing sites from Australia and got 346 odd thousand hits. If I was a person and was looking at a site where there was mudslinging at other sites I'd give it a wide birth. I don't want or need the agrivation.
The owner of the 'other' site has put a request in for the few idiots to stop the garbage that is directed to this site. I really hope the idiots listen otherwise they will stuff up 2 websites.
I really hope Steve works with the other site and find the morons making trouble and ban them from everywhere.
I will always participate in Ausfish in the same way I participate in other sites that vary with content as does my interests ie workwork and old Holdens.
But fair dinkum, let's get on with the fishing/camping.4x4bying/boating and all the other great past times that make this country and this site so good.
Like real life, a few bad apples will spoil the barrel
In short. I too am sick to death of the garbage and can't wait for it to blow over so we can get on with what we do best. Be friendly, supportive and helpfull and sometimes funny :)
There, said my 2 bobs worth. (I also said the same on the 'other' site)
Cheers Scott

[imported_admin]

Sorry, had a problem with the move topic feature again, fixed it now.

[kingcobe]

It’s good to see that thus far debate hasn’t been stifled, as I firmly believe that without healthy debate, ill feeling will remain.

My personal observations are that the fall-out has been as much about members feeling that they lack a “voice” as it has been about heavy handed moderating.

I posted in a thread a while ago that at a time when certain members had been banned, that it wasn’t healthy to make mention of threats having been made to moderators as it could be construed that the banned members had been making the threats. This thread was deleted leaving some members to conclude that the banned members were indeed the ones making threats. Whether they were or not is irrelevant, I think in a matter as worrying as this that a response from mods should have been forthcoming.

Other posts referring to similar perceived injustices were also deleted despite me making mention of that process likely being counter-productive. They were deleted when they were merely posing questions, thereby leading many members to feel that the administration didn’t value their presence and was not prepared to tolerate any questioning as to what exactly was going on.

The PMS and e-mails I have received, indicate to me that there is a perception that this whole sorry affair is payback for the fact that one particular moderator was heavily criticised earlier. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen, but until members feel that they do indeed have some sort of voice, then I think this perception will remain. By “voice” I do not mean in the actual running of the site, but an “avenue of appeal” whereby a perceived injustice can be questioned and an answer given. Even if that answer is to say that there is no requirement to answer, in other words, a simple acknowledgment that the posters concerns have been noted may suffice. To simply delete a thread seems to me to be an inflammatory act that solves nothing, other than to alienate those that have posted to the thread.

An example. I recently posted to the general section a post regarding an appeal for anecdotal evidence of fish kills. I appealed to the moderators to leave my post there (in order to gather more support) and requested that responses be made in the news section to avoid overkill at the general section. It was deleted and backed up with a simple message to my PM that this was the case. It wasn’t moved, it was simply deleted, after I had put in considerable effort to formulate it. Fair go mate, you’re the moderator but to moderate justly you have to sit in the seat of the person that you’re moderating and ask yourselfjust how he would feel and how that will affect the site as a whole. “A simple bit of moderating” you probably think, but in the short space of time that the post was there, the act of deleting it was enough to produce some very disgruntled members who pm’d and e-mailed me to say so. That said, it is not my site, and the admin must moderate as they see fit, but I think you will agree that my previous response in another thread (which was deleted) stating that current moderating practice was counter-productive has proven to be true.

When people feel aggrieved and without a voice, they will vote with their feet and unfortunately, they will take others with them.

I have never, in my time at this site, said that members should have a voice in how the site is run, but merely tried to illustrate that which I consider as common courtesy (ie, an acknowledgment of concerns) be adopted. I appreciate the heavy workload that you have Steve, as I appreciate that your site is by far the best I have frequented, but it appears to me that sometimes the very people that you rely on to reduce that workload have now contributed to it’s increase and perhaps even a loss of revenue for you.

Analogy:

A while ago the major breweries owned most British pubs. The traditional pub had a lounge and saloon; the latter often referred to as “the vaults”. The vaults were a place where most blokes drank in the company of other blokes and talked about things, and in the manner that only blokes can. The lounge was a place where you could take your kids for a meal and relax in an atmosphere that was more appropriate for wives and blokes who didn’t like to do “blokey stuff”. Anyone doing “blokey stuff” in the lounge was barred and relegated to the vaults………..by their actions, and their knowledge of likely consequence, they had chosen to be where they were relegated.

In most cases it transpired that the vaults was the place they were indeed suited to, but those that didn’t feel that way, had the right of appeal to the brewery to have their barring lifted. They then had to illustrate that they could indeed be considered fit to be allowed back into the lounge. Any future “disturbance” that they caused in the lounge was met with a barring from the whole pub.

Latterly, the breweries embarked on removing their vaults to make way for more trendy, “user friendly” larger, family environments. The breweries are realising that there is now nowhere for these “blokey blokes” to go other than the lounge room or to “spit and sawdust” pubs. They are faced with the dilemma of losing the custom of some of their biggest spenders, or relaxing the rules a bit to allow those blokes to be “integrated”. What transpired was that many blokes simply “moved with the times” and moved into the lounges with a big sigh (well, not exactly) ;D and for some time bemoaned the loss of a British tradition. Others sought the spit and sawdust places and found that although it may mean a slight inconvenience to travel further to one’s local, this was offset by the fact that they could drink in an environment which they were comfortable in. Eventually all the hoo ha died down and folk just "got on with business"

What is happening here currently, (it appears to me), is that folk are deciding where they “fit”, just as the British pub goers had to do, and eventually they will all just "get on with business..........the sooner the better I say :D

kev

I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

[bidkev]

Jeeeez, can't my little feller talk? ;D

Sorry about that folks, he hadn't logged off again.

Meant to add to the analogy that many blokes find that they feel comfortable in both the "posh" pubs and the "spit and sawdust" pub. .............they simply have to remember which pub they were in, before they open their mouths ;D

kev

I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me.

[mod6]

As Moderators we all have different opinions and views, but in the end, we know what the Ausfish Rules are and attempt to enforce those rules in the best interest of the site and it's members.

Try this !

Simply, if you are doing 75kph in a 60 zone YOU KNOW YOU ARE SPEEDING.

If you personally attack, show disrespect, post distasteful posts etc, YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE BROKEN THE RULES !

Simple........Simple..........Simple !

We are not going to post up in the public arena every reason someone is banned for whatever amount of time. Nor are we going to spend our ' donated ' time pm'ing every one telling them something they already know.

I am sure many of you have recieved pm's from Moderators from time to time, getting advice that a post will be deleted, needs to be modified or will be moved. But to do this with everyone is impossible.

As a matter of interest, should the banned members ( and we all know who we are talking about ) actually admit to their indiscretions and apologize, instead of continually attacking other members, making accusations, attempting to discredit Ausfish etc, via other web sites, then maybe, just maybe, a positive result could occur.

WE all encourage debate and DO NOT CENSOR a healthy topic.

Fish for the Future :)

[cobber1]

Well said Phill

[straightshooter]

I have read with interest this post and have some thoughts so here we go.

I will start with mod6, quote,As a matter of interest, should the banned members ( and we all know who we are talking about ) actually admit to their indiscretions and apologize, instead of continually attacking other members, making accusations, attempting to discredit Ausfish etc, via other web sites, then maybe, just maybe, a positive result could occur.


That my friend is exactly what is causing the rift here, you have straight away broken a rule of ausfish with that post, it is defamatory towards banned members, not all banned members have done what you state they have!

the post by ausfish stating all the deleted posts are kept on record is timely once and for all time lets clear this up right now, lets have it out in the open for all to see, its one to make all those claims now shoot me down in flames if im wrong.

the other website has a very healthy attitude towards this and wants to clear this up for the benefit of all. ausfish.com has been spammed over that website and is left up proving its support for the site, while that website is blacklisted and cannot be posted in any way shape or form here, we are trying our best to sort this out over to you.

[dfox]

I hope both parties sought out any differences, ive always enjoyed ausfish and hopefully ive contributed towards its success, but unfortunately i know none of the facts behind this and i dont even know whose been banned?
Im not stupid i can guess a few of them, but not all. As far as i know at least 25 of the 52 platnium members, myself included have joined the other site. This is nothing special, im a member of many sites. But i hate to see such a core group starting to devide without knowing why?
Ive made many friends threw ausfish and hope to make many more, lets hope common sense prevails ...foxy

[straightshooter]

To right foxy, its a win win situation for everyone lets see what can be done.

I will continue to post in this topic untill everyone is satisfied we have all achieved a satisfactory result.

[bidkev]

Dad (kingtin) you were logged into my name when you posted just then.

Jay.Jay

[Derek_Bullock]

Members agree to abide by the rules of the site when they join. If they choose to break those rules then they pay the consequences. It is really that simple. Myself and the mods that donate their time in helping run this site do not have time to answer every single question about why someone got banned. They are an adult/child and know the difference between right and wrong.




It is a sad situation that it has come to this, but I can see no other option than do what Ausfish Steve has done - make the moderators anonymous. Over the past few months we (myself included) have received abusive phone calls, physical threats against our families and ourselves and sabotage against other sites we own or have association with because we have moved or deleted post on this chat board.
While I’d be happy to share a coldie with 99.9% of Ausfishers any day of the week, there are a few fly ins and nutters that have made it difficult for all.

I am posting this explanation because I take exception to those suggesting we are hiding behind a number – criticising the changes, without knowing the facts.
We the mods delete obscenities, spam, ads and deliberate stirring on a daily basis for no other reason than we like the people we meet and what we read here.
We do not deserve the crap being dished out in PMs and posts about the changes and we definately don't have to put up with the threats - hense the Mod numbers instead of names.

Before you hit the ‘POST’ button, think… will this offend someone; am I posting this to create a stir? If the answer is yes then don’t hit the ‘POST’ button.
There will be no warnings – there are too many good people on this site to let a few spoil it.

Dave ><>


Steve has outlined it quite clearly I think.

Daves post from another thread explains it further - There will be no warnings – there are too many good people on this site to let a few spoil it.

The banned members may be ones of long standing and with thousands of posts between them but in my book rules are rules.



Derek

[kingcobe]

Sorry dad I didn't know that you had already posted about me still being logged in and I didn't know you were still logged in just before when I posted.

Jay.Jay

[straightshooter]

Chat Board Rules
« on: 29. Jan 2004 at 12:27 » You agree, through your use of this Chat Board, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive.




If you personally attack, show disrespect, post distasteful posts etc, YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE BROKEN THE RULES !

Simple........Simple..........Simple !

As a matter of interest, should the banned members ( and we all know who we are talking about ) actually admit to their indiscretions and apologize, instead of continually attacking other members, making accusations, attempting to discredit Ausfish etc, via other web sites, then maybe, just maybe, a positive result could occur.



keen to see a response to this, keep it on a level playing field fellas.

this post shows a commercial link of a fishing website posted by uripper so why isnt this person banned as per the rules of the chatboard? :-?
http://www.ausfish.com.au/cgi-ausfish/yabb2/YaBB.cgi?num=1142597418/45#45

[Sportfish_5]

The core of the problems at present I believe go back to one or maybe even two moderators who for whatever reason have an axe to grind with the banned members. Didn't we go through dramas like this last year when one supposedly quit as a moderator. Now that "Mod" is obviously back moderating all forums not just one via stealth mode as Mode # whatever.

Hey Derek ;D ;D ;D

Im with you Foxy - there is a reason long term members have left or no longer post on Ausfish - but hey there are a lot of good forums around besides this one that people will chose if the current situation persists. I am sorry to say IMO the tone of your post here Derek makes people's decisions easier and I believe ultimatley you will cost Steve money in loss of sponsorship etc if this continues.

One more thing - if rules are rules then are you not breaking the very rules you rule to the letter by linking your campoven site ? Gee I am sure I saw something there about demonstrations and quotes - but rulez is rules hey - apparently ;) :-X

I'll probably cop a ban for this post which is fine if debate on this topic is to be stiffled.


Greg

[gone_phishin]

I think the rule regarding links shows that under any circumstances Derek's is totally allowed;

"Links to Websites in Members Profile and Signatures -
Only Non-Commercial Website links allowed in signatures, unless you are an approved advertiser. Websites must contain G Rated material. We reserve the right to remove a link from your profile as we see fit. "

After looking at Dereks site, I can find no evidence of a commercial website, but even so, it may be an advertisers website which is approved by Ausfish, so therefore doesn't oppose the rule as written above.

Good site too Derek ;)

Geoff

[Derek_Bullock]

If you look at this site - http://www.ausfish.com.au/ozfish.shtml you will see that my banner is an approved one by Ausfish.


Derek

[cobber1]

Does the website you are linking to have advertiseing Straightshooter?

Maybe thats why it is being removed.

I figure that "non commercial" would mean as long as no one is making profit from it then it would be ok.

[straightshooter]

NO ADVERTISING

#######.COM IS A NON PROFIT WEBSITE

[mod5]

nope whats going on there :o


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AUTO REMOVED BY SPAM FILTER .comthe other..... side of the coin

another question mods why wont you answer the above replies.

Interesting post. I have looked at the coding behind the page and you have written exactly there what people are looking at. You typed in AUTO REMOVED BY SPAM FILTER and then bolded it.

YOU DID NOT TYPE A LINK AT ALL

Ausfish and it's Moderators reserve the right to remove any link at any time regardless of whether it is advertising or not, as do other forums.

A number of links have been removed from Ausfish recently because of spamming.

If you are referring to a link to The Fishing Group Of Australia Forum, yes that link has been removed because of spamming both on the Ausfish Chat Board, in members PMs and in members emails.

Further, a number of members have been banned from Ausfish because of that spamming.

In addition to the above I add the following quote from the admin of the site mentioned above after he banned someone for similar spamming on that board.


More like.. you were spamming.. I didnt take any part in spamming another
site.. a few members did.. but without my approval.. and once i find out who
they are, will be adding them to the ban list aswell.. so its not a "Do as
I say.. not Do as I Do" IF.. you asked nicely, i would have probably saying
yes to you posting your link in a main board.. but because you were rude
enough to PM members.. you'll be added to the ban...

[straightshooter]

I didnt type that I copied and pasted it from my signature before changing it, there was no link.

fish/seq dot com have left the spam about ausfish all over the forums there and have called a spade a spade, why wont you do the same?

[straightshooter]

The website is still displayed on that other site as an example of the open door policy which is so not evident here.

still no answer to the real issues here is there ::)

[straightshooter]

the member who spammed
fish
seq.com is still a member and invited to respond to the many posts they have generated unlike all the ones who were banned here for the same offense!!!!!

[Happy_Man]

So where is all this info regarding the banning ? Does it really exist or is it just hear say ? One of the guys here offered to pass it on via email to put the matter to rest but it looks like it was removed from his post (I have a good memory)

So what is the difference between say Sundown and Fisher Boats and your "Approved" website advertising your services as a demonstrator Derek ?

[straightshooter]

Do we have a time frame on the answers mods or is a spade a shovel now ::)

[banshee]

It is a pity that it has come to this,I can't help but think that due to a personal vendetta the site has very much cut it's nose off to spite it's face,fact is some have been judged by a different set of rules and the person/persons responsible need to have a hard look at the long term consequences,by following this trend you will rid the site of any character and in time all that will be left will be a sterile place full of people pissing in each others pockets saying what they think they should be saying and not what they want to say.Ban people by all means if it warrants it but do it fairly across the board and keep personal differances out of it.

[Fafnir]

It seems pretty straight forward. The website has rules and the moderators use their discretion in deciding who has, or has not broken those rules and what punishment is suitable.

There is a pretty clear difference between a guy advertising his services as a demonstrator, compared to rival companies trying to poach members. Keep in mind Steve started this site back in 1994. He has worked hard to optimise the site and have it listing high in the search engines. It is not REASONABLE to expect him to allow another website to spring up over night and use his hard won database to kick start their own website. If another site wants to get up and running, then it should try getting other sites linking to it, or use Google Adwords, or similar online marketing tactics to gain more members. People will soon find it. There is a right and wrong way to go about things, and it seems some people think that poaching another persons hard earned database is justified. Well it's not, there are few things lower than riding off someone elses business that they have poored money, time and effort into. If members feel they have been treated harshly, then they have options - such as joining, or starting another site.

One can only think that other sites are not doing too well if people are still logging on to this one, trying so hard to get banned ex-members back to this one. That other site would probably become a good site in its own right if its members and supporters simply built a bridge and got over things and started posting on their forums rather than these forums.

[straightshooter]

The mods have there chance to set the record straight and the clock has been ticking for a long time on the issue, lets wind this up.

[mod5]

The mods have there chance to set the record straight and the clock has been ticking for a long time on the issue, lets wind this up.

Your IP indicates to me that you are already a banned member. Perhaps you could let us all know exactly what it is you are looking for.

[cobber1]

Can't you just ban his IP and let uys get on with it?

[straightshooter]

Lets start with an explanation about why the banned members were banned, lets just start with all the posts relevent to say only members of 1 year or over to see what the reasons are.

[straightshooter]

Then its time for an explanation about mod 6s behaviour breaking ausfish rules as outlined.

[bidkev]

It is a pity that it has come to this,I can't help but think that due to a personal vendetta <snip>.

I understand that mate,with all that has happened and the lack of the "total picture", but looking at some of the recent posts, I think the direction of the vendetta is pretty obvious, and it ain't coming from Ausfish. If guys want to jump ship because they don't like the way they *perceive* the site is going, then that's their perogative. If they want shut of it, then why don't they just let things settle down instead of perpetuating the aggro? Take a step back and a deep breath and wait?

One has to ask though, if a commercial venture really would risk it's "customer base" over what some perceive as a "personal vendetta"? Has the full story been told, and if not, wouldn't you hazard a guess that there must be a valid reason for this, as opposed to the site owner risking this manner of distraction on the site?

I wasn't going to buy into this at all, 'cause I feel like I have lost some good mates because of what has happened. I've learned a lot from some of those that have left and I really do think that some of 'em have jumped the gun a bit and it is they who are 'cutting off their nose to spite their face.

If I don't like certain things in something that as a whole, I do like, then I don't jump ship. I prefer to stay and try and get the ship on an even keel within the framework that the Captain has set me. It is his ship after all. If I step out of line, then I know that most good Captain's would accept an apology and would be fair if I promised to not to step out of line again and moderate my behaviour. If I refused to accept, or really couldn't see how I had stepped out of line, then I wouldn't be of much use to the Captain now would I? If I attempted to spread dissent amongst the crew, then the Captain would have me off that ship, pretty quick!

In the end it all comes down to the fact that *any* site owner has the right to act as he sees fit. If that doesn't sit square with some, then they can, and indeed have, voted with their feet. That doesn't give them the right to continue the conflict and it certainly doesn't do them, or the new site, any justice. To me, it simply appears petty, vindictive and intrusive as I'm sure the vast majority simply want to move on from this.

Those that have gone are a substantial number and I'm sure that many will be sadly missed. But we're all dispensable when it comes down to it, and there is always someone to fill our shoes. Step out of line and the system (whatever it may be) will dispense with you. Continuing the debate is not going to score any points or change anything. What's done is done and we just need to get on with it. I wish all that have gone well and only hope that those that aren't barred, can find it in themselves to still frequent this site as there is a wealth of knowledge and mateship that will be missed.

kev

To err is human, to blame it on someone else is more human.

[banshee]

fafnir your missing my point,I couldn't give a rats arse who gets banned I don't take the internet thing very seriously at all it's simply a distraction,I just think there has to be a better way of dealing with people than what is currently happening.

[Sportfish_5]

Sounds like a reasonable assumption Kev - until it happens to you ;)

The behaviour is a two way thing - your perception is incorrect as many perceptions are - sorry mate not having a chip at you but the two mods are not going to let the cat out of the bag as Steve himself probably doesnt know what they did or the stories told to other members.

I have been a long term member of this site and I am extremley dissappointed in the actions they have taken over this.

Anyway you are right - it is time to move on and leave the Bold and the Beautiful to this website.


Good luck in here ;)


Cheers

Greg

[Scott15]

As a matter of interest, should the banned members ( and we all know who we are talking about ) actually admit to their indiscretions and apologize, instead of continually attacking other members, making accusations, attempting to discredit Ausfish etc, via other web sites, then maybe, just maybe, a positive result could occur.



I just got off my 7 day ban and am annoyed that mine and others names have been tarnished because of this post. Isnt that against chat board rules???

Scott

[mod5]

For the record Scott. That post does not include you and I have seen no evidence that you personally have done any of the things mentioned.

[straightshooter]

As a matter of interest, should the banned members ( and we all know who we are talking about ) actually admit to their indiscretions and apologize, instead of continually attacking other members, making accusations, attempting to discredit Ausfish etc, via other web sites, then maybe, just maybe, a positive result could occur.





so who did those things, all banned members? is there anything to support that statement yet?

[mod5]

Scott's showing up as a Platinum Member with 1247 posts on my screen.

[straightshooter]

must have been a glitch then.

[mod5]

It happens sometimes.

[bidkev]

Sounds like a reasonable assumption Kev - until it happens to you ;)

The behaviour is a two way thing - your perception is incorrect as many perceptions are - sorry mate not having a chip at you but the two mods are not going to let the cat out of the bag as Steve himself probably doesnt know what they did or the stories told to other members.

I have been a long term member of this site and I am extremley dissappointed in the actions they have taken over this.

Anyway you are right - it is time to move on and leave the Bold and the Beautiful to this website.


Good luck in here ;)


Cheers

Greg





as·sump·tion ([ch601]-s[ch365]mp'sh[ch601]n)
n.
Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof; a supposition:

logic
n
1: reasoned and reasonable judgment; "it made a certain kind of
logic"
2: the principles that guide reasoning within a given field or
situation; "economic logic requires it";
3: a system of reasoning

Mate, I always do my best not to assume. I arrive at most decisions via logic.

One could* assume* that the mods had an axe to grind but if you used logic to reason, then it would be logical that given the past conflict regarding mods, it would be *illogical* to think that they would have taken recent steps without being aware of the likely consequences ie that others would *assume* that they had an axe to grind.

It would also be *illogical* that they would have taken the steps that they did knowing full well that *logic* dictates that the site would be harmed by it unless their *logic* dictated that it was absolutely necessary.

I have made no assumptions and my perceptions are not flawed because I am driven by logic. If I am wrong, then that means that the site administration has acted illogically and if this is ever proven, then I will hold up my hand, admit my mistake, and apologise.

I've never visited the Freshwater chat since coming to this site, but a number of pm's have directed me to it in regard to the present troubles.

The fact that a response to a little kid and his mom could have been so cruel astounds me as it astounded others who responded kindly. Now this cruel response may have been ill measured and delivered by way of us all having different values and standards. Some may not see the response as cruel, others may, due to their values and standards. If it is the case that others didn't consider it to be abusive because of *their* values and standards, then it is understandable that they wouid not see themselves as being abusive and would cry foul if they were reprimanded for it. As I say, I didn't see the thread (at the time) and had absolutely no idea what started the whole sorry debacle but I do know that a subsequent post was deleted by the mods whilst the original post that caused concern was left showing in others' replies. Now if that is the case, logic leads me to believe that the deleted post was of even more concern.......I haven't *assumed* that, I have arrived at that conclusion based on logic.

I don't make decisions without great thought, although I can be impulsive but in this case my decision to stay here is based on logic despite the fact that I may lose some friendships in the process. They must do what *they* feel is right.

I'm not arguing a point here, either to defend the administration of the site, nor to point the finger at those who the administration thinks have erred. All I am doing is trying to illustrate that in the heat of the moment many folk *will* assume and will not apply logic to their choices and in the end, suffer because of that. I am not one of them.........I am the Bold and Beautiful ;) ;D

That's the last I have to say on this matter as prolonging it may only invite troll-like behaviours.

Cheers Greg and believe it or not, I can understand your concerns.

kev

To truly hear you must quiet the mind.

[straightshooter]

Lets see the post you refer to Kev, ausfish posted there is a copy of all deleted posts.

[bidkev]

Sorry Greg. I just read that last bit back and it could be construed that I'm inferring that you may act troll-like. What I meant is that there are folk who scour the net just waiting for an opportunity like this. They look for a bit of conflict and then jump in and stir the pot.

Also meant to add that despite all the current complaints about the mods, there have been recent posts that have welcomed newbies commenting on how they think that the site is one of the most friendliest around and that the mods do a good job. Strangely enough, despite the numbers that seem to be disgruntled with the site, I have never heard anyone voice opposition to that statement and if I'm not mistaken, some who have left have even supported that statement?

kev

True friendship is like good health; the value of it is seldom known until it is lost.

[Fafnir]

fafnir your missing my point,

Sorry Banshee but my comments were not directed at you, nor were they in relation to any of your comments.

My comments were actually intended to simply be a general statement of what I think are unethical business practices. My comments are not aimed at the owners of any other site, and I am sure there are some good people on other sites. But my comments are fairly and squarely aimed at spammers.

[cobber1]

Kev you are not the first person I have met that is always right.

Must be hard but somehow you are always right.

Thats the bits I could be bothered to read I am refering to.

[theoldlegend]

This site has provided me with a lot of enjoyment since I joined and has also given me the opportunity to meet some very good people that I'm proud to call my friends. Not only that, I've read with great interest tips about tackle etc which I hope will help me in the future.

Sure, I've made a blue now and again, have been gently admonished on one occasion, but have accepted that and got on with it. Some people, in my view, seem to take the hard line confrontational approach "take no prisoners" when a difference of opinion arises.

I was disappointed last week to receive 2 PM's from members whom I wouldn't know from a bar of soap telling me about a new website starting up due to certain issues that allegedly had happened on Ausfish.

Browsing through that site, a number of those members appear to have a bitter and twisted attitude because of what happened to them. To me, it's pretty simple. If you don't like the rules, then you are free to go somewhere else.

There's nothing to be achieved by setting up as a new member on this site and raising old issues in the hope of causing a destabilising process, because these new members are simply demonstrating the type of people they are. From what I've read so far on this thread, they appear to have been successful in doing so.

Put it all behind you and get on with life.


TOL

[mod6]

straighshooter.......= mackmauler ! fine.

we have not banned you since you came in under this name. We have been very , very tolerant of your posts and accusations.

WE are NOT going to get pressured by you or the others to show / explain why you were banned to the other members of this site, and to that point I am loath to even put this post up.

Enough is enough, you know why you were placed on a short term ban, as do Shane and Tim. That's what this is about, right.

I offered a way to achieve a positive result to reslove this a while back............that offer was not accepted.

I have sort advice on this from long standing, mature members and all have agreed that the bans in place are fair and just. They, us Mods etc are not holding a grudge or even think less about you guys, just doing our job in the best way we know how.

How about you have a good think about this matter and come back with something positive to say.

To everyone else here who has been following this and reading this, I hope you understand that this is not an easy job, particulary when people who can and do contribute greatly to this site are banned for an indiscretion. The banning is not as bad as it sounds, it's more like a " gee mate, that post was out of order ", rules are rules and we have to apply them, across the board, no one is immune.

That's the way it is.

Bad post = banning>
Peace offering = rejected>
Continued rule breaking = ?
Should this post be locked down and we all get back to fishing ?

Fish for the Future ! :)

[bidkev]

<snip>
Should this post be locked down and we all get back to fishing ?

Fish for the Future ! :)

You would then run the risk of further aggravating the, "there's something to hide debate"

We're all adult and can draw our own conclusions from the debate without it getting too messy.

cobber 1, I wasn'y going to discuss theis issue further but if reasonable debate is to continue amongst others then this needs to be said.

I did not say that I was right, I merely illustrated how I had arrived at my decision. If you continue with responses in the same confrontational manner that you have responded to me, then that only further fuels mine and other people's logic. Who would fight for a cause that is fueled by animosity and personal slurs? Doesn't this kind of attitude further alienate folk from your "cause"?

Own goal mate.

kev

Truth is the most powerful force on earth because it cannot be changed.

[theoldlegend]

Mod 6 and Kev,

Guys, I think you might be falling into the trap by responding to these posts.

The more you respond, the more is going to come back to you to chew over. We could join the other site under dodgy aliaises and stir the pot there, get banned, join again under another dodgy and ask why. It could go on and on and on and - well, you know.

If you get sent off in a game of sport, you don't like it, the ref/umpire's nuts, picking on me etc, but you go off and serve a penalty.

TOL

[JewseeTHAT]

First up I'd like to thank sincerely the participants of this thread for the many minutes of genuine laughter they've provided me with. My observations and involvement in forums and servers over several years leads me to make the following conclusions. New, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum identifying symbols and the number of posts made by a user is begging for trouble. Certain types of people are drawn to these things for whatever reason (compensation for a tiny whatsy or who knows \ cares). Users, Mods and Admin all have their place, to create an artificial pecking order has the effect of making some people believe that their contribution is somehow worth more than others. Thus we have tantys being thrown and knickers being twisted when these types feel that X number of thousand posts has magically conferred upon them some kind of god like status, thereby entitling them to special treatment. Fact is they're just another user. Mods, your job requires you to make decisions that people may not like sometimes.. tough s***, let 'em get over it in their own way, you don't need to explain yourselves.When all else fails the /nuke button wins.
As I said, thanks for the laughs. :)

[Argle]

JewseeTHAT, you just hit the nail on the head right there, well said ;)

Cheers and Beers

Scott

[mod6]

OK guys, I think we get the drift.

Let's move on.

I will lock this down. Not for any other reason other than " Time Gentlemen ".

I sincerely thank all who contributed positively in this " topic ". !

OK, back to fishing matters, kids, boats, rods and reels.

Fish for the Future ! :)