National Animal Welfare Bill: Fishing Prohibition

[WiSH]

Dear All,

Wanted to alert you to the National Animal Welfare Bill, currently receiving submissions (until Nov 30th). #One of the purposes of this Bill, introduced by Andrew Bartlett (Dem.) is to prohibit the killing of wild animals for the purposes of "sport" or "entertainment". #Fish are explicitly included in the definition of "animal".

More information is available here:http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/rrat_ctte/animal_welfare05/info.htm

WiSH (Women in Shooting and Hunting) will be putting in a submission for this, and we urge anyone else to send even just a short letter stating that fishing is a legitimate activity, with efforts to ban it reflecting extreme animal rights ideology rather than genuine animal welfare concerns. #

Unfortunately we cannot put a copy of our submission on our site until after the Senate site releases it, but we'd be happy to discuss issues with anyone - please PM if interested.

Regards,
WiSH

[kc]

Nice to see someone else is watching our backs. This has been coming for a while and with the stroke of a pen would BAN all forms of catch and release....my advise is that the bill will not be passed (due to current senate make-up) but I have been in contact with Senator Boswell and asked him for an overview of this bill.......it is however a wake up call. The next time the greens and democrats control the senate......look out!

The debate about C & R Vs fishing for food has been held on this and other forums on and off for a year or so now with many saying...they would never ban C & R.......well...read the document guys...there it is in black & white....our "mates" the democrats and greens out to ban fishing for fun.

Regards

KC
Chairman
The Fishing Party (Qld)

[fish2eat]

This is really disturbing, because although this Bill will probably be defeated, some future Parliament will have these loonies controlling the numbers and it will get through. We may be the last generation to fish.....in 10 or 20 years it may well be a crime. :(

[bungie]

The bill is for animal protection, NOWHERE does it say you will not be able to fish for recreation

[Mad-One]

Don't be to to sure it won't happen. Look what happened to the dog world now they aren't allowed to tail dock. If you sit back and say nothing the so called do gooders will get there way.
Come on the revolution [smiley=rifle.gif]

Mad

[Derek_Bullock]

As someone who has written and defined legislation considerable I have studied this proposed legislation and advise as follows:

In the Definitions (Page 79) the Bill defines an animal is any of the following:
(a) a live member of a vertebrate animal taxon;

The common definition of a vertebrate is - An animal with a backbone that includes mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, and fishes

Section 64 (Page 40) of the Bill states: Division 2—Cruelty offences
64 Animal cruelty prohibited
(1) A person must not be cruel to an animal.
Maximum penalty: 1000 penalty units or imprisonment for 2
years.
(2) Without limiting subsection (1), a person is taken to be cruel to an
animal if the person does any of the following to the animal:
(a) causes it pain that, in the circumstances, is unjustifiable,
unnecessary or unreasonable;

Further in the Definitions (Page 68) pain refers to both psychological and physical pain and, in an animal, is taken to be the same sensation that an average, well human, having suffered the same trauma, would experience. So what they are saying is that to hook a fish in the mouth is no different to hooking a human in the mouth.

Section 82 (Page 49) states: Meaning of prohibited event
A prohibited event means:
(a) a bullfight or organised event held for public entertainment in
which a person provokes a bull in a way that is likely to
cause it to charge;
(b) a cockfight or dogfight or other event in which an animal
fights, or is encouraged to fight, with another animal;
(c) a canned hunt or other event in which an animal is killed in
an enclosure to obtain a trophy;
(d) coursing or any other event in which an animal is released
from captivity to be hunted, injured or killed by another
animal;
(e) an event in which an animal is released from captivity to be
hunted, or shot at by a person;
(f) an event prescribed under a regulation held for public
enjoyment or entertainment, with or without charge to
anyone present, at which anyone participating in the event
causes an animal pain.

Check out paragraph (f) carefully. A simple regulation could mean a fishing competition would be a prohibited event.

People, they dont need to specifically use the words "fish, fishing, hunting or hunt". It is all in there cleverly disguised.

Dont be fooled, this is the first step at banning fishing for sport. Scary stuff.


Derek

[Burley_Boy]

Just posted my submission. Bunch of turkeys, maybe they want to ban chicken eating worms and white pointers eating people too.
wacky vegan wallies. :(

[banshee]

The sky might very well be falling,but I doubt it.The outlawing of catch and release would have to co-incide with the abolishment of legal fish lengths which in turn would see the majority of fish taken never reaching breeding size,this would be a step backwards for the countries fisheries,common sense will ultimately prevail.

[familyman]

I agree with derek ,its what is between the lines that will stop us,any use of live baits,EVERY fishing competition not to mention the price of fish in the shops as the pro's will be the only ones permitted to fish and they are among the worst offenders when it comes to waste of resources.

THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL >:(

Lets all of us (at last census 5.5million out of 19million fish at least once a year) stand up and stick it up the do gooder control freaks that want to ruin what is in this country a huge industry if you take into acount the rec boating side of things too.
I'll be sending my submission to the address in the link ,I suggest you all do the same [smiley=furious2.gif]
cheers jon

[rajawolf]

OMG what nutters, I cannot survive on just vegies.... :-[

Do vegies feel pain? :-?

[Derek_Bullock]

The following is an Australian website. #For those who knock it, just remember what has happened in Europe where they said fishing for sport would never be banned. These people are already on our doorstep and are well and truly active.

http://www.animal-lib.org.au/lists/fish/fish.shtml


Derek

[banshee]

Derek,I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find a web site on just about anything radical in this country,certainly doesn't mean that we will adopt the rantings of a few as law,and while we may embrace some cultures from Europe and other countries our mind sets are poles apart.In my opinion the baning of fishing in this country is never going to happen,turning people who release fish into criminals is also unlikely.

[Louis]

Thanks WISH for making us all aware of this.

It's scary stuff.

In recent years the world seems to have gone mad.





Louis

[tshort]

FMD, I've got two properties on the coast specifically for options they offer mainly "fishing". If they ban fishing will we be compensated like pro fisherman?

[nils_desporandum]

looks like you can say good-bye to light tackle&catch and release

[Louis]

I'm curious to know how they feel about commercial fishing.

Are they against this as well or are they just against us recreational anglers?


Louis

[nils_desporandum]

they are against pros too louis,the same that they are against mulesing of sheep,live export of animals etc. but i think that the targeting of animals for "sport" will be a memory soon.
just ask a duck shooter

[Spaniard_King]

Crikeys we will al be vegitarians before we know it :'(

Garry

[nils_desporandum]

mate if it goes the way they want you wont even be able to eat honey because of the poor exploited bees

[littlejim]

I think WISH has done a great job by telling us about it. Would never have known it existed otherwise.
But I agree with Bungie that it seems to have nothing to do with recreational fishing, it seems to be about cruelty to animals. There are also sections there that permit State laws to override what is in the bill. Don't think the NT would let it wipe out the barra fishing industry.

Good 'heads up' but leaving my knickers unknotted at this early stage.

[familyman]

Banshee and others ,take a look at the celeb lists on the link in dereks post .See andrew bartlett...He is the Leader of the democrats,a party which could quite easily gain practical control over this matter through preferences and balance of power in the senate.Scary thought :(

But on the other hand the linked page also shows the animal libbers to be hypocrical also.It advises that when someone catches a fish it should be despatched humanely as opposed to being de-hooked and released to continue its life . ::)

So while they carry on like this .....
cheers jon

[banshee]

"Banshee and others,take a look at the celeb lists on the link in dereks post"...........Why?

"See andrew bartlett...." I'm not too sure how many pollies will want to align them selves with this man after his last debacle.

Maybe Derek or others can tell us when this prohibition on fishing is to take place?I have no doubt that rec shooters face some tough times ahead but as far as rec fishing goes I can't help but think this is just a bad case of spin doctoring.

[Derek_Bullock]

Banshee

I am not arguing for or against it, just pointing people to the facts.

I am sure KC can let everyone know what happened overseas as he has researched it. I guess the people over there also didnt think it would ever happen either


Derek

[peterbo3]

It is great to see that this bill is being sponsored by that well known DRUNK & oxygen thief Andrew Bartlett. He should stick to stealing bottles of wine & abusing fellow members of Parliament. >:( >:( >:( >:(
But isn't it great it was all on TV otherwise the dropkick might try to have me for defamation. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
GGGOOOOOO Andy, get another one into ya!!!!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Personally, I think the rec fishing industry will become 'modified' in the years to come, but I don't think for one minute Andrew Bartlett or any of his cronies are going to ever have their way of total banning etc etc. It would sound the death knell for the Democrats, and they are in far too much sh!t already. Not just now, but even in the long term. I doubt that Bartlett will even survive the next election.
Political diversion and feeble attempts at seat justification I would call this, and God knows we have seen plenty of it in recent years. I honestly don't think there is anything at all to become excited about. This is not Europe, this is Australia, and we have a long and proud history of fighting for (and winning) our rights.
What Bartlett and co are proposing would mean the end of fishing, the end of rodeos, the end of campdrafts etc etc. What a load of rot.
We still have and will continue to have a democracy for a long long time yet to come. And an Australian democratic society will never support these ridiculous proposals.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers
Dave

[cabfisher]

Ho well It was nice to be a fisherman wasnt it .What a Bl---- Ars of # a person. No one could ever call him a man. Hic Hic Pour me another Hic '
If it wasnt so serious It would be Funny
But really fellows we better do something as next week #month or Year Could be too late what we need is a leader thats prepared to do the hard yards
I just hope for my nephew and your children , #Someone takes up the challenge
well thats #my thoughts>
Cheers Harry

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

And I honestly think that is just exactly what they want. Someone to take up the fight, to fuel the fire and keep the pot boiling. I also think, at this particular time, that they should be ignored. Held in the contempt they are holding all rec fisho's, and let them crawl back under the carpet from which they came. Starting a row now will see Bartlett and co sitting back on their fat arses laughing their heads off, you would be playing right into their hands. Don't give them the satisfation.

Dave

[banshee]

Dave,your last two posts some up my views perfectly,couldn't agree more,this will only be an issue if rec fishers are stupid enough to make it one.

[Poseidon]

Andrew Bartlett ???? The Democrats ??? Ahhh I remember them now, I had to go an get an ancient history book to see what contribution they ever made to Australian Society.

We are probably lucky that the The Democrats are taking this one on, why don't they get Bob Brown on their side as well and then it will truly be a travelling sideshow.

Regards Cameron.

[Billo]

Hey , who is doing it for sport ::) ....i'm working for science ;D

[kc]

After some advice the nuts and bolts of this is the bill is proposed by the Democrats and supported by the greens but has no other support. It is effectively buried BUT!!!!! be very aware the RAP closures and the National Oceans Office and its agenda to close 30% of all coastal waters was also a democrats policy and when they (Meg Lees) controlled the senate and Howard wanted her support to pass the GST the trade off was Government adoption of the democrats national oceans policy....science NEVER drove RAP...politics did.

The greens and democrats are now in the political wilderness because they are no longer in a balance of power position.....that role seems to be falling to Barnaby Joyce.

This bill will sit on the shelves UNTIL/If EVER the democrats control the senate again!!

Bartlett is just trotting out a plee for the leafy green and tree hugger vote but this will not save him at the next election....GONE...Outta here!! It is however, or should be, a wake up call. This bill, in the "right" political climate, could be passed....just like similar bills have been passed in Europe where all forms of C & R, Competitions and live baiting are banned and rec fishing is increasingly viewed as the socially unacceptable pusuit of an ecentric few........a bit like duck hunting is here and now. Cast your mind back 20 years and duck hunting was fine and then project your thoughts 20 years forward. Where will fishing fit in the social fabric?

TFPQ will not be making a submission on this bill, we really don't want to give it any credibility or start a public debate on the whole C & R issue. That said, we are not ignoring it and the Nationals will & have dealt with it on our behalf.

Regards

KC

[gif]

KC is more positive than me that the Greens are gone. # #I think they will come back harder than before and are not a spent force. # The next election is absolutely the make or break for Fishing in Australia. #

This Bill may get up for other reasons #- Howard may do a deal to get his IR legislation through the Senate. # #The Greens needs a win, #and Howard wanst his IR Bill. #So it is just possible there may be some strange deals that go on. # #If that happens Fishing will be dead before Christmas.


Derek did a great job in his analysis #- thanks.

But he did miss one point. # #Under S87 #Animals Used to feed Another Animal I think we would also see a total ban on Live Baiting. #

This Legislation would also see the end of Kids Fishing Days (under the same section that stops fishing competitions)

Again: #this has already happened in Germany which is the leading legislation that other Green Parties tend to follow.


Gary

[Gazza]

Fishing for Food is Fine...... 8-)
Humane Killing of Food is fine. ;)

I (personally) don't care about C&R "only" comps ,as until "equal prizes" are given for C&K guys fish-capture as well ,they're discriminatory in my book :-X

Live-baiting & C&R of "legalsize" fish are issues ,to remain aware and focussed on with foresight NOT "hindsight"

Fishing WON'T be banned EVER ,but just like the 1kg.line on "maximising the thrill" of the capture ,is less practised nowadays, so may some of the lesser FOOD-GATHERING techniques.

JMO ,no shitstir intended.

[banshee]

Strange,I typed "Fishing in Germany"into google and found a page that actually invited me over to go fishing in nearly every country in Europe,could someone post some web sites that state the facts on what is or is not legal,from what I've read sport fishing is alive and well right throughout Europe.

[Derek_Bullock]

http://www.anglerverband.com/texte/naturschu/oekologie/oeko_0015.html

Read that. The propose Animal Welfare Bill in Australia just about mirrors it.


Derek

[Derek_Bullock]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/15/nlephant15.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/15/ixhome.html

Looks like the UK is going through the same thing as here. They also have a Bill on the go.


Derek

[banshee]

Does anyone seriously think this will eventuate in this country?

[Derek_Bullock]

Although this is a PETA website it tells about the bans in Norway. http://www.fishinghurts.com/feat-fishNorway.asp

A lot of people do Banshee. It's something we shouldnt ignore otherwise it will be here for sure. Australia is the last untouched area for some of these groups.


Derek

[Derek_Bullock]

Scotland is also considering similar legislation

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/05/1683736/37451

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Always keep in mind that this is not Germany or England or Scotland. This is AUSTRALIA. We don't do things the way a lot of countries do, that's why so many of their nationals are living here in AUSTRALIA. Our democratic system, and the pollies answering to us at election time, will ensure we never see a total ban on rec fishing in this country, ever. There are far too many of us. Millions in fact. But if people choose to write to Bartlett and co and keep the pot brewing by making a song and dance about his ridiculous proposal you can be absolutely certain that it will result in at least some change. They would already be laughing their heads off just from reading this thread, the desired result has already been achieved. Ignore this scare mongering completely. That sends them the loudest message possible: "We're not interested in even commenting on your ridiculous, idiotic proposal. Goodbye Mr Chips". Speaking of which I am sure Mr Don Chip would turn in his grave if he could see how his beloved Democratic Party has evolved at the hands of under achieving out of touch amateurs.

Cheers
Dave
Cheers
Dave

[Derek_Bullock]

Dave

I wonder if that is what people in Europe thought back in the early nineties. I bet the average fisherman thought that it would never happen to them over there.


Derek

[JubJub]

Well I guess if they take fishing off us then we wont feel so bad when we are working our weekends and holidays for $6 an hour under the new "IR REFORMS"

Why do these idiots keep getting into positions to control our lives?

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Derek

Our country, Australia, is an island. The largest in the world as I'm sure you know. There aren't a hell of a lot of countries who enjoy being surrounded by temperate waters where fishing can be a year round pursuit. That's why so many of Australia's population are rec anglers, and why the majority of the population lives on the coast. The Pollies and their families fish too, (maybe with the exception of Bartlett) and I'll wager that a bloody lot of Bob Brown's followers are rec fisho's too.

Total banning is just not going to happen here. There are far, far, far too many of us. It is true that probably none of us believed 20 years ago that duck shooting would one day be banned. I am sad for those shooters, but fishing.............. the number of fisho's would heavily outweigh any other outdoor recreational activity in this country.

I won't be posting anything further on this thread. I feel that already I have commented further than I would have liked to on Bartlett's braindead proposal. I do appreciate everyone's own thoughts though and respect the opinions of all.

Cheers and thanks

Dave

[Owen]

Always keep in mind that this is not Germany or England or Scotland. This is AUSTRALIA.

Reel Nauti,
It is because this is Australia that we should be concerned.
Your approach of "just ignore it and it will go away" is typical of the Australian approach to any political involvement.
Australians don't understand our political system. They don't understand how preferential voting works. They don't question the fact that their duly elected member is most likely simply going "toe the party line" rather than represent the wishes of their electorate.

We may not see a total ban soon, but death by a thousand cuts is still death.

cheers,

Owen

[Derek_Bullock]

Dont think for one moment that Andrew Bartlet developed and wrote this Bill. This is a masterpiece that has received a lot of research and effort from every conservation group in this country, high profile public servants and a number of overseas conservation organisations as well.

The good old Democrats under the leadership of Bartlett are just a front for them all in this matter.

Ducks this time .................... live baiting next ............... tcatch and release ........... then fishing competitions. The writing is on the wall so dont ignore it.

I am disapointed in the Fishing Party attitude that the Nationals will fix it! Read what Gary wrote about the IR reforms. Deals are done as always in the back rooms and corridors of Parliament House regardless of public opinion. Think of the reef closures. You didnt all expect that to happen but it did though and there are more to come with the Great Sandy Marine Park just around the corner and later the Moreton Bay Marine Park. What after that ................ the Gold Coast Marine Park.

What areas south of Brisbane will be next to be closed to fishing. Remnember Beattie promised in 2002 that this would happen along the whole of the Qld Coast or have you forgotten. Perhaps someone will decide that Palm Reef or somewhere off Currumbin is overfished and needs to be closed to fishing as part of a Gold Coast Marine Park.

Burying your head in the sand and saying Australia is an island and a great country full of great people wont stop it.

Cheers


Derek

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

[/quote]

Reel Nauti,
It is because this is Australia that we should be concerned.
Your approach of "just ignore it and it will go away" is typical of the Australian approach to any political involvement.
Australians don't understand our political system. #They don't understand how preferential voting works.


[/quote]

Owen, I think that you are grossly underestimating the political intelligence of the voting majority in this country. And, exerience has shown me on many ocassions, that sometimes the most powerful comment one can make is "no comment".

Cheers
Dave

[Gazza]

Dave , I'd read "no comment" as " no objection" :-/

I can see/guess that museling on sheep...may go? :o
WHY..not for the sheep ,but to "be able to" gain overseas export contracts i.e. big $$$$
I can see "save the turtle" ,by insistence of TED's, is MORE influenced ,by the fact that the USA ,don't buy/import prawns ,unless TED's are used. :o
i.e. big $$$ ,and recall $3B mentioned once as an export figure. :-?

RecFishing "may get dragged in".....by "interpretations" of this bill.....

That is where ,we (as Recfishos) have to draw the line,
with "ENOUGH..no more!" >:(
by having some "voice" to justify some practices, or ...
adjust some practices to be within boundaries ,of what's allowed.
JMO 8-)

[gif]

“They will never do it”

“We would vote them out”

“lots of people go fishing – they will never do it”


That’s what they said in North Qld about the barrier Reef closures. How wrong they were. And how wrong some above are being.

Heavy sigh.



Look in fact THINK through the steps.

1. What is more important to Howard? His IR Legislation or Fishing? Ans= ……………………. ( IR)


2. If the Greens were offered this Animal Welfare Act in a deal for their vote for the IR Legislation would they take it? Yes/No. ( yes in a flash)


3 If the Liberals brought this in Would the Nationals break up the Coalition over it? Yes / NO ( no way – and lose power!)


4 If the Liberals brought it in and we voted them out - would Labor cancel the Act? Yes / NO (not in a million years - Labor is closer to Green than Labor)



One day such legislation will get in. And some people here will be left standing … saying “what happened?”

That’s exactly e x a c t l y what happened in North Qld over the Reef. Please please please learn from their errors.


Gary

[banshee]

Everyone refers back to Europe and more specificly Germany,I'm prety sure that when Germany adopted these laws the Greens were actualy in power ie ruling the country via a coalition.If a trend is going to be followed in this country it is more likely to be that of the USA than Germany.I agree with KC and Dave,this is not an issue,don't make it one.

[eV@Ns_BoY]

i, along with many other fisho's in this forum are leaning towards the scepticle side of this very touchy subject..
the way "wish" has stated the proposed bill is very ad Hominum (meaning that because B follows A, then therefore A caused B) it would seem that she is merly tring to rally the troops of rec fishos to apose this bill which is aimed entirly at rec shooters, like banshee said, the shooters are up the creek without a paddle, thier arent all that many shooters, aposed to greenys or animal lovers out thier, however, with the force of the whole fishing fruternitany of australia behind them they would alomost seem unstoppable, fishing is the secound largest sport is the world, it creates millions of dollars per annun and is to much of a vital asset to abolish..
case closed....
like banshee said aslo, this will only become an issue for rec fishos if we make it one, leave this fight for the gun slinging women...

[kc]

To put a final TFPQ spin on this particular bill at this particular time....& in response to Dereks dissapointment about the TFPQ response.

We are comfortable on advice from our political representitives in Government....that this particular bill, at this particular time, is dead and buried.

That does not mean we do not take seriuosly the future risk and/or potential for this, or a law like it, to be raised again in future.

This organisation is bourne of the grubby deal which passed the GST and closed the reef all with the stroke of a pen.

We do not believe fishing will ever be banned....live baiting & C & R will most certainly be a target at some stage into the future. We will watch and act in the best interests of our members and support base but in this instance reaction to this particular bill will only give it credibility it does not deserve.......for the person who deemed this only applies to shooting....re-read the fine print....fish are animals (under this bill).

KC

[eV@Ns_BoY]

INSIGHT INTO A GOVERNMENTS MIND....

FISHING = $$$$$$$

THEREFORE FISHING = VERY GOOD.

SHOOTING = HASSLES FROM GREENIES

THERFORE SHOOTING = VERY BAD

FISHING IS AS SAFE AS A KINGFISH UNDER PAT CURRANS BOAT!!!
-IT SHOULDNT HAVE A WORRY IN THE WORLD.

[PinHead]

I had a read of most of that Bill..it is a good laugh..you would not be allowed to intentionally place a poisonous bait to kill and animal....bloody rats will be laughing..no more ratsak.

I cannot see it ever happening...the GBR decisions really only affected a small number of voters...this would affect a very large number all over the country..both Fed and State Govts. make a heap of money from sales etc for rec fishing and tourism...my opinion..it ain't gunna happen.

[PinHead]

Always keep in mind that this is not Germany or England or Scotland. This is AUSTRALIA.

Reel Nauti,
It is because this is Australia that we should be concerned.
Your approach of "just ignore it and it will go away" is typical of the Australian approach to any political involvement.
Australians don't understand our political system. #They don't understand how preferential voting works. They don't question the fact that their duly elected member is most likely simply going "toe the party line" rather than represent the wishes of their electorate.

We may not see a total ban soon, but death by a thousand cuts is still death.

cheers,

Owen

sounds like you are a pollie..don't underestimate the intelligence of the general population..it will come back and bite you every time..ask Mark Latham

[redspeckle]

I was listening the 4BC fishing show on the way to work I think I heard Gary Fooks talking about it I was :o by it and the back room deals in Goverment
I reckon its intrustion on your freedom Blokes when to war over this and died for right to have a free country they be turning in there Graves what they are seeing what society is becoming today too soft and too political correct
What kind of future life going to have in this country a bowl of rice with a few rocks throwen in for payment for work and have no rights for hunting ,fishing,4wd driving ,camping,drinking,gambling,and even having sex to reproduce if can have these's what kind of future life do we have, life is getting like these science fiction movies of the future
Mitch

[NEWBY]

Reef closures! Green Zones! Bag limits! etc etc etc, blah blah blah.
Sheet guys, you need to think here. Imagine the above being single battles in a very large war. Hmmmm shit, us rec fisho's aren't winning many battles are we? In fact, we only win the ones they let us. Every great war has been won by single battles. Dont let the nuke get dropped on us. Remember the quote from the "Mayor of Hiroshima" "WHAT THE F_CK WAS THAT? There are arguments for and against fighting this crap and I for one will be watching very closely and lobbying my local polly. Watch your back door or it will be kicked open and we wont be ready for it. Go the fishing party. Tell em we wont cop this shit. Make it big before they do. I will even register to vote again. (Havent voted since 1983 when I voted for Hawky, I figure I made a grave mistake then and dont want to repeat it)


NEWBY

[gif]

Evans Boy

Where did you get that silly idea? Did you make it up ?

Politics does not work that way at all. Its 100% lobbying mates and especially deals.

and Fishing is NOT = Big $$$ well maybe commercial fishing but not Rec Fishing. And I have talked to and listened to Fisheries Ministers.

Oil companies are big -Fishing is minute. And the advisors will all tell the Government that recreation $ won't be "lost" if fishing is stopped - the $ will just go into another hobby instead. So there is NO $ fear of losing Fishing. No fear at all.

SO EvansBoy - your arguement, I regret, does not mean anything in Canberra.

Gary

[Owen]

Dave,
We'll have to agree to disagree about the "political intelligence" of the voting majority.
I'm not saying that the average Aussie is thick. I'm saying that the majority of voters have little or no understanding about how our system works, or more importantly how they can make it work for THEM instead of the politicians.

Pinhead,
No, I'm not a pollie, but I have in the past been involved in politics in one way or another.
I've manned enough polling booths and mixed with enough serving politicians from across the political spectrum to be dismayed at the contemptable attitudes of many of our elected representatives and the "she'll be right mate" attitude of the voters.

I got involved because I was sick of people bitching about things and not actually doing anything about it, not because I have any interest in being a pollie.

One thing though,
Can you point me to an event where an Australian recreational group has defeated any restrictions being placed on their interest/hobby/sport?
I can think of a couple where the tourism industry has got involved, but no others.


cheers,
Owen

[fish2eat]

After reading much material about this, from sources additional to this site, it appears that there is NO chance this legislation will be passed.

One of the most compelling reasons for this view is that in their attempt to be a bit sneaky, the Bill is drafted way too broadly. Not only could it be interpreted to outlaw rec fishing, but it would also ban horse racing, ie No more Melbourne Cup, and the racing industry (with associated breeding, feeding, care, vet etc etc) is one of the top 10 employers in Australia. Apart from this it would ban killing rats, pony clubs ......in fact almost nobody in Australia would be unaffected.

Given that the drafters of the Bill would have expected it to be defeated, it is fair to assume that this is a first step in conditioning us for major change.

Remember how much change we have accepted in the 20th Century where homosexual acts were an criminal offence punishable by jail for the first half of the century.

Although most of us won't live that long, there may well be NO Fishing by the end of the 21st century.. :( :(

[Louis]

I long for the days of Yesteryear and the era prior to the introduction of Political Correctness.

When common sense prevailed.

I find it unbelievable that a wholesome sport like fishing. #A sport which has served to keep young people on the straight and narrow and to have an appreciation of nature and the enviroment. #A sport which has been around since the dawn of time, can now be considered immoral.

It certainly is a strange world in which we live.


Louis

[thumps]

just a small word


wasnt fishing taken off the recreational sports list?????

i seem to remember that fishing ..according to the government.....is no longer a sport!!

i may be wrong...but

[Louis]

G'day Thumps,


Yes I think you are right. #

I seem to be able to recall something about fishing not being considered a sport any more.

I can't remember the full story, but I do remember reading something in the paper about it some years back.


Louis

[gif]

Not a sport?

Maybe that came about in the lead up to the Sydney Olympics. They were short of $ and cut funding all over the Place.

RecFish ( the peak body ) got slashed to $0 based on fishing not being a sport.

The whole thing was about cost over runs in the Olympics. RecFish got their $ again after the last election.

Above is what I have heard - but I don’t have the concrete facts to go on.

Gary

[Derek_Bullock]

Thank you Kev Collins, Gary Fooks and the Fishing Party.

http://www.fishingparty.com.au/AnimalWelfare.pdf


Derek

[Sergio_kutz]

I'm thinking that there will be a few companies that will be rather pissed off if fishing is banned. Actually pissed off would be an understatement. Imagine, all of the lure and tackel companies in australia all of a sudden having nobody to sell their stuff to because no one is allowed to fish anymore. There would be a lot of legal action being taken i am thinking. Not my idea of a fun situation for the government or whoever to be in.

Sergio

[Billo]

crazy .....lets still say fishing is a sport .

It is the sport with the highest amount of recreational participation in the country

I would not say this bill would or would not be passed ...but if it was , i think it would then become on the list of the following election topics ....and could be a big vote swinger .

would pull a lot of money out of the economy aswell , that moeny will go offshore

[Gazza]

Thank you Kev Collins, Gary Fooks and the Fishing Party.
http://www.fishingparty.com.au/AnimalWelfare.pdf
DerekKevin ,
TFP have imo done the right thing by 'responding' rather than a position of not giving "the bill" any credibility of existing, by pretending you didn't exist.

What TFP have NOW done imo ,is show
"they" exist and have said "Enough!!"

This looney has an oldstyle "log of claims"....i.e. ask for everything ,and until you get it ,with amendments ,it remains re-submittable..at no cost.

Similar to e.g. unions asking for "10 weeks paid leave" in the old days ,they "knew" they wouldn't get it ,but it also saved money ,around $50K each time.
If they asked for e.g. 4 weeks.......and got it ,they would have to repay again, if they ever asked for say 5weeks.

This looney had a good website as well ,and is still in par-laugh-a-minute...
Please DON'T drop your guard for a instant. :)
http://www.andrewbartlett.com/issuesanimalwelfare.htm

And yes , I can see museling being banned (or certified-free) for certain markets ,in the future.
JMO & top regards for your efforts.
Gazza

[kc]

Thanks Gazza/Derek,

With some level of caution we got enough feedback from membership that they wanted us to lodge a submission......so we did!

I am still a bit nervous that all we are doing is giving both this goose and his bill more credibility than it deserves, but, none the less, we take the view that if we are going to lodge a submission (on anthing) it should be professional, detailed and accurate......hopefully this one fills the bill.

I still remain of the belief that this is dead in the water BUT....at some stage in the future, this, or something like it, will be run up the flagpole again and if the Greens/Democrats ever control the senate again we will have a real battleground.

Regards

KC

[gif]

Sergio

You may have a misunderstanding of the Law. # You cannot sue #or take legal action against the government for changing the laws #- even if you go bankrupt.

The compensation to businesses that suffered with the Barrier Reef Closures was an act of generosity ( probably only because Kevin Collins twisted their arms)

Submissions

Some of the other submissions #(64 so far) #look weak and thin compared to TFP's.

So while I see KC's point #- its good that the opposition see us as taking these things seriously. # #

[thumps]

You are here: Home >> Australian sports directory >> Search results
Australian sports directory - search result

"fishing"

Australian sports directory

* Search again
* List of Organisations with ASC Status

No organisations containing this keyword


according to the Australian Sports website...We ARE NOT A Sport


so this legislation doesnt apply

http://www.ausport.gov.au/sportdirectory/results.asp

[juicyfruit]

Gawd!!!!!!

I am so sick and tired of being told by government, State, National and Local, how to live my life and to whom I am to fork my money at.........feels like its getting to the point where I will have to have wait for the national government to pass a bill to allow me to have a dump, permission from some 'tree hugging' group to use the paper to wipe my bum, pay the local government for the use of the water, fill in and hand in the paper work of the whole procedure to some other group........

When will the quality of our lives and how we live it, stop being controlled or used for revenue :-?


Juicy

*kisses*

[thumps]

i will correct myself


this legislation probably does apply in certain cases....however


my point is that Fishing as such isnt regarded as a sport...rather a recreational pursuit

[WiSH]

Thanks Gazza/Derek,

I am still a bit nervous that all we are doing is giving both this goose and his bill more credibility than it deserves, but, none the less, we take the view that if we are going to lodge a submission (on anthing) it should be professional, detailed and accurate......hopefully this one fills the bill.



Your submission is alongside a large number of others expressing equally serious concerns - numerous universities, medical research bodies, and representatives from the farming/export sector (to name just a few) have also put in submissions. #

Submissions can now be downloaded from:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/rrat_ctte/animal_welfare05/submissions/sublist.htm

It is well worth reading through these.

[gif]

The Fishing Party Submission is up there as number 82

The RecFish submission is number 93 (RecFish is the National body - the National version of Sunfish, Verfish etc)

I believe that there are more submissions received but that these have to wait until the committee formally received them when they next meet - in February.


Gary

[Graham_N_Roberts]

Well I guess if they take fishing off us then we wont feel so bad when we are working our weekends and holidays for $6 an hour under the new "IR REFORMS"

Why do these idiots keep getting into positions to control our lives?


:) :o Because other idiots keep voting them into positions of power. Remember .... little Johnny got in by a stomping majority. I recon that makes the average Aussie an idiot.

That's the joy of living in a democratic society. We do have the option of undoing the rot at the next election ..... if an alternative power decides to undo it of course. ::)

[banshee]

"If an alternative power decides to undo it of course"

Unfortunately,unless the new power wins control of the Senate as well this will probably not happen,the working class man will be stuck with this idiots ideals(the rich get richer,the poor get the picture) for some time to come.

[Hairymick]

If fishing is banned in this country, we could all adopt a new sport. My recommendation would be greenie bashing

regards,

Mick

[firestang]

Hey hairymick , thats already my 3rd passtime ;D

[Hairymick]

The problem with bashing greenies, is that there is no sport in it. 99.9999% of the simpering little sh!ts are too busy whining about something or other that they haven't had to time to develop the cajonas to fight back.

regards,

Mick

[WiSH]

Seems this isn't going go away - this popped up in "The Age (http://www.theage.com.au/news/letters/left-to-fend-for-themselves/2005/12/30/1135915688774.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2)" (Melb.) a couple of weeks back:


CLYDE Scaife (30/12) taunts the "anti-duck-shooting brigade" for not attacking fishing.

He's wrong of course. We (I am proud to count myself as one of the "brigade") regularly point out the cruelty of fishing - and whaling and seal-hunting and horse racing and battery cages and sow crates and mulesing and many other of the myriad ways in which we humans exploit and cause suffering to our fellow animals for fun and profit.

But we've found that people like those who take their pleasure in shooting innocent birds tend to respond best if we can give them just the one topic to ponder at a time.
Mike O'Shaughnessy, Animal Liberation (ACT), Spence, ACT