Portable Stoves

[Derek Bullock]

Hi

Looking for information and experiences on LP Gas versus Unleaded Petrol for a camping stove. I like the style of the Coleman Stoves and also the idea of not having to cart gas bottles around.

Yeah I know, you can't beat a good camp fire but let's face it, a man needs some comforts, like being able to get up in the morning and having a cuppa before going out to chop the wood.

Any thoughts.


Derek

[mackmauler]

Can't comment on petrol, metho cookers are great imo for small jobs.
cheers

[neptune]

The unleaded stoves are great, they have a high BTU rating. The only drawback is that they are physically bigger than an equivilant gas unit.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

derek,

in additional to my bigger camping stuff, I've got one of those Gasmate portable single burners that run on an aerosol can of gas & fold up into a small case.

Its an expensive way of buying gas (in a disposable aerosol can) but it great for several uses.

1. That quick cuppa when camping

2. That much needed cuppa or bowl of steaming 2 minute noodles on a distant surf beach at 4am some winter morning. It is light & fits neatly inside a backpack/wadingbag.

3. It travels well in the boat for the same as above

4. We take it to Southbank & on picnics to the beach for a sausage sizzle/cuppa.

Although an expensive way to buy gas the unit is very efficent. On a recent trip to Southbank we cooked up 2 dozen snags & boiled a full kettle 3 times & still had a bit less than half an aerosol can left.

seeyainthesurf,
chris

please n.b. - Chris aka GWH does not have any commercial arrangements with Gasmate appliances - he is simply appreciative of the fact they have reversed his hypothermic state several times in the past whilst recklessly pursuing tailor & will probably do so again this year. ;D

[Derek Bullock]

Hey Chris

I have one of those Gasmate stoves, cost me $29 on special, and use it the same as you do. It goes everywhere and sure is great for making a pot of tea or heating something up. The other good thing I like is that it has it's own lighter attached.

Keep an eye on the Crazy Clarks specials catalogue as they often have a run on the gas for $2 a bottle. I stock up on them at that time.

I used this as my only stove when I did a two week camping trip through nothern New South Wales last year and it was great for quick stopovers, but I am looking more at something for the permanent campsite. That's why my thoughts are on using a petrol stove.

Cheers

Derek

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

what are the emissions like from a petrol stove?

There are some genuine nasties produced from burning ULP without putting it thru a catalytic converter - don't know if I'd like that cloud hanging under my tarp or drifting into my tent, not to mention the soot factor.

Gas can be cumbersome but at least it burns clean.

chris

[Derek Bullock]

Interesting point Chris. Never heard that comment before so would be interested to hear what people have to say.


Derek

[PG]

Well, I've got one of those gasmate jobs for overnight and when I go night fishing in the boat. I've made a cuppa and brekky in the boat using the gasmate stove and I'm in love with it.
As for unleaded petrol, I've never used one but to be honest I wouldn't be too keen on the stuff either. Explosive, poisonous emissions but I can see how it would be a cheap and convenient alternative.
When the family and I (3 kids, missus and I ) have been camping we've been up to 10 days cooking and boiling the billy using a 9 Kg gas bottle and had heaps to spare. I'm sure with a bit of careful management you could use a 4 Kilo bottle to do the same job but with the larger bottle you can run the light at the same time. If you're going to a caravan park or campground, most places these days will refill gas bottles onsite if you run out.
Gas is great in my book.
Hope my views help.

Paul.

[neptune]

I own a coleman unleaded stove and a coleman unleaded lantern. I run premium unleaded in both and have not noticed any excessive fumes and there is no smoke. Also on the $2 special gas bottles, remember you only get what you pay for and I guarantee that the cheapies will not burn as hot as the ones from the camping stores.

[Tally]

G'day

Chris and Derek,
Not meaning to scare anybody but did you know that those $29.95 gasmates are prone to exploding because the gas canisters are so close to the fire?

What my mate (elgas fitter) has done with his is he has put a flexible gas hose approx. 1.5metres long on the burner and attaches the gas canister at the other end of the hose this allows him to bury the canister in sand or whatever ground he is cooking on and therefore even if it explodes it will be in the ground.

Just a thought
Cheers
Jay.

[Derek Bullock]

Thanks Neptune for the info on the emmissions. That is what I thought. Those specials I get at Crazy's are the real thing, just a bit cheaper.

Jay, the Gasmate meets all Aussie Standards and I have never heard of them blowing up. In fact I have had mine on long enough cooking a stew to use one complete bottle and it doesn't even get hot.

Cheers.

Derek

[Big_Muddie]

I thought I would add my experiences with the portable gas stoves and "cheap" canisters.

Both my brother an I have the $30 specials and we use the cheap canisters from Big W/K-Mart - $20 for 12.

We use them at the Pin for 90% of our cooking needs, including crab cooking. Two words describe them best - bloody marvellous!

We have never had a problem with them, the gas burns cleanly and is very hot. Sometimes we can't believe the speed at which they bring big boilers of salt water to the boil.

Like Derek, we have gone through up to 2 canisters in each stove during crab cooking - never a sign of danger.

Our alternative there is a wood stove, which we do use for a hot water system. Compare the weight, cost and space required wood (transported in a boat) for what we do with the weight, cost and space required for gas cylinders and stoves and there is no contest.

I would have reservations about using petrol as my fuel source - no tangible reasons - just one of those gut feelings.

[porl]

I just have to chuck in my 5c about the gasmate butane burners, mine is a fully imported asian made one and they are all passed by the australian gas standard and i just do not believe contemporary ones are prone to exploding. These units have been used in restaurants throughout asia and Australia for more than a decade and have come from the commercial sector to the domestic sector and i have the utmost faith in them and a gurl i work with has a brother who is a gas trade inspector and he thinks they are superbly engineered. I have dumped my noisy leaking hard to control gas bottle burner and have two of the butane burners and they are excellent. Just before easter Big W was selling them for $23 each and the butane bottles at 6 for $9.50 - which one bottle for 4 - 6 hours cooking time is pretty good value, not as economical as gas but soooo much more convenient and i suspect safer.

[bassman]

Gday mate
Ive just got rid of all my gas related rubbish and now use coleman petrol lights and cookers and solar panel for my refridgeration on a waeco. Gas bottles are a pain to carry around every were and you never really know when they are about to run out, plus the amount of heat you can get fron a little petrol is amaizing. I can fill my little cooker for around 50 cents and it does me for a weekend, compare carrying half a litre of fuel with carrying a gas bottle.

[Derek Bullock]

Hey Bassman

Thanks for that. There has been some talk about emissions from the ULP. Have you had any probs with that.

Derek

[porl]

uh oh, no reply from bassman, was it the volatility of unleaded that got him or was it the emissions ....

(Might add that the petrol cookers i have seen cost like $200 for one with two burners and weigh about 8kg ... when i'm rich might get one ... there has been discussion over emmisions on another site and apparently people do make toast on them and they don't taste like petrol - but i spose maybe you'd never know ....)

[Derek Bullock]

Porl

I noticed in my local camping store that you can get a fold-up oven to put on top of them as well so I imagine that there cant be petrol emmissions or everything baked would taste of ULP

Derek

[smerl]

Derek,

I wouldn't loose too much sleep over the emissions from a ULP stove. The noxious combustion products (fumes) produced by the stove are Hydrocarbons (HC), Carbon Monoxide (CO) and Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). These are the same combustion products that are produced by burning anything. I suspect that the amount of NOx produced by buring LPG is probably higher than the amount of NOx produced when buring ULP.
Catalytic converters used in cars basically contain plaladium and platinum which catalyses (starts) the oxidation reaction which converts the hydrocarbons to water and the carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide (CO2). They also contain a rhodium/platinum catalyst that starts the reduction of the NOx componds so that they are converted to (harmless) Nitrogen and Oxygen.
Catalytic converters were implemented to reduce the amount of polution from cars (obviously!) but their implementation was only made possible by the introduction of ULP. They were probably required even more before ULP, however the lead in the old leaded petrols contaiminates the catalyst and prevents it from working.
To cut a long story short, ULP won't give you any more problems with noxious fumes than LPG.

Regards,

Simon

[porl]

what about the burning of the detergents in ULP - which i understand is the reason we have premium fuels, the level and type of detergents to decoke engines. dunno if i got that question exactly right.

[smerl]

Hi Porl,

I'm not sure about the presence of detergents in ULP. I have not come across it.

I should add a bit more info to the last post. Petrol (wether leaded or unleaded) contains benzene. In Australia the benzene level in petrol is limited to 5%. Benzene is known to be carcongenic. The benzene is used to raise the octane level of petrol to stop the engine "pinging". Premium unleaded contains more benzene than standard unleaded (higher octane level = more benzene). Another major source of benzene is cigarette smoke. Benzene is not removed efficiently by catalyctic converters.

The amount of fuel used in a ULP stove is very small (Bassman says he can run his on 1/2 a litre of petrol for a weekend) so I don't believe that the benzene levels discharged would be significant. You are probably exposed to more benzene by walking around the city for a day or smoking a couple of cigarettes. The benzene levels will be lower using standard unleaded in the stove and the fuel will cost less (how about that, something that is better for your health and costs less!!!).

Even with all of these facts, I probably wouldn't be a ULP stove. My concerns would have more to do with spills than fumes though, but I'm sure they are probably well engineered to remove those risks. I like gas and I am set up to run a stove, barbeque, fridge and light off of one 9 kilo cylinder so I would be reluctant to change.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers,

Simon

[porl]

hey smerl

am no expert but the issue of "detergents" was explained to me, no i don't buy bridges, by a petrol station owner when i enquired as to why his shell service station sold Shell Premium unlike some shell stations that sell Shell Optimax. maybe he was way off, maybe its a benzine issue.

About the safety issue - i run a petrol lantern, it has been swamped by waves on the beach (restarted first go), left out in the rain as we passed out in tents, it still starts and goes and is so amazingly reliable - though in stong winds it can struggle. But yeah, i suppose the day i notice it is faulty is the day it blow up.

[Breamreeper]

I changed all my gear to duel fuel around 2 years ago and find it excellent. I have a coleman twin mantle that will light up the whole camp and the stove works great. I don't use unleaded I run everything on coleman fuel. I get good economy and nothin seems to clog up. I changed just because i didn't like carrying gasbottles.

[Derek Bullock]

Hey GT

What do you pay por your Coleman Fuel and what is it????

Derek

[Breamreeper]

Hey Dereck, Mate it is just standard coleman fuel that is available at all camping shops etc. Cost is around 8 - 10 dollars for a four litre tin. I have found that this fuel is more expensive to run, but gives of no odour, lights safely and is also good for starting a hard or wet fire.

GT

[neptune]

Coleman fuel is just like shellite

[TroopySteve]

Yup, Coleman fuel is Shellite. I buy mine at the local mobil depot (Called Mobilite). Costs $40 for a 20 litre drum.

I did have problems with using old stale fuel, so now only run Shellite.

[Derek Bullock]

Thanks for all the info people. Seems like shellite is the way to go.

Derek

[neptune]

Derek, I have a duel fuel lantern, and it is recommended that every so often I run shellite through it as it is a very pure fuel and leaves no residues and helps clean out the build ups from the unleaded. In a stove the unleaded will have a higher btu rating than the shellite will.

[Derek Bullock]

Lift up to front page

[Fishin_Dan]

Just joined up and starting to post, and this one intrigued me...

Just a warning about Shellite... I used to run the FireDancing club at Wollongong University, and so came across Shellite a fair bit. Kerosene was the standard fuel for this, but a few people moved across to Shellite. The biggest problem with Shellite was that if it was alight (on the end of sticks) and it splashed at all (happens alot when spinning around your head), the Shellite stayed alight and kept burning while on the ground. With Shellite, the actual liquid burns as opposed to the fumes like with gas. This caused a few little scares of small grass fires occuring, and in the end we made the decision to ban Shellite from the club. Out in the bush, I can see this as a potential issue.

Having said that, I am one of the die-hard camp fire people who has grown up using fires, and will probably stay using fires, but I have also used the small gas stoves (Kmart ones). The dangers of these are a lot less than any flammable liquid. But leaking gas is also very very dangerous. This is one of the reasons I stick to fires...

I guess it is all a personal preference, and what is the most convenient.

A little hard to start a camp fire on a boat though!!!! ;)

[MTpockets]

If anyone says a bad thing about the Coleman portable stoves my missus will have a snap at them ;D ;D
She is absolutly over the moon with the one we got from Kmart for $18, and a 4 pk of gas was $6. I am truely amazed at how well it does the job and will never use the 3 burner ever again.
For a small outlay, the return is amazing.
cheers
Les

[Derek Bullock]

Yep way to go. Got this little beauty at the camping show. Stove, 4 tins of gas and a stainless toaster and billy for under $30.


Derek

[zedjack33]

I also picked up a Coleman portable stove for cooking crabs and prawns outside as the missus hates seafood smell throughout the house :-/. So I cook em in the shed (you know, "I'm off to sharpen the mower blades"). ;) [smiley=angel.gif]


Cheers zedjack33