Lets talk Leaders

[Volvo]

Think this subject has been bashed about before but what the heck ??, would like to chat about it more :)..
Leader rolls , mostly in the hundred meter length by variouse makers.
Flurocarbon etc.
All these worthy of paying the extra $$ for ??..
Why not a 300/500 mtr roll of Snyder , super 300 which has thinner diameter for it braking strength etc and variouse other brands i could enquire about??.
Under console dash of my Tinny i have spools of so called leader material in variouse breaking strength and also have larger spools of mono line i use for leader
and to be honest i sometimes think my larger spools of mono come up trumps more often.
Your thought folks ??..
Most my bigger catches with raspier teeth were handled better with the latter too by the way ??..

[NAGG]

Interesting subject which depends on how you look it - eg Fluorocarbon Vs Mono .... Technical benefits Vs a consumable that you are thinking of the cost (in many cases)

I use FC pretty well since it came out ( early 2000s) - there is no doubt in my mind it makes a difference in light line , shallow / clear water & finicky species ...... I wouldn't use anything but FC for my bream , bass , trout fishing (unless fishing topwater - Mono because of the difference in density) ....... The use of FC progressed to my snapper fishing - that is much about confidence than anything tangible .

When it comes to deeper fishing & bigger fish ........ I'm less convinced of the benefits - yeh would have loved back in the day to have had FC on the boat when you have 70-90kg yellow fin tuna at the back of the boat refusing all offerings.

These days we have a good selection of clear monofilament leader material available - * Now leader material is not the same as monofilament line
Leader is often a coextrusion (different polymers or additives used) - Harder & less supple - I used to sell an additive to Aust monofilament that went into their game leader to improve the abrasion resistance . Note : There are monofilament lines that a coex (two layers)

Now having said that - any impoundment barra fishoe worth their salt know the benefits of using this bad boy 125971

Its hard as rock (straight Pa6 nylon) with great abrasion resistance (compared to other leader FC or mono) - cheap as chips & readily available ....... the big plus is it's diameter - thick 55lb is 0.8mm - compare this to 50lb Sunline FC rock @ 0.57mm - that greater surface area means more abrasion resistance & ultimately nothing to do with the breaking strain . The impoundment barra guys have used it for 20 years or more . :-? I do expect more than a few spools have been sold to the odd reef fishoe over the years too :P

What I've come to realize over the years is that leader is a personal thing .... one of those things that will be argued around a fire for years to come . You either see it as a commodity or as something crucial for your fishing .

Any way you look at it ..... this is a reasonable read

Sport Fishing Leader | Flouro VS Mono | Ocean Blue Fishing (https://www.oceanbluefishing.com/magazine/fluoro-vs-mono-which-best-leader-material-fishing/#:~:text=Fluoro%20has%20greater%20density%2C%20mak ing,is%20prone%20to%20abrasion%20damage.)


Chris

[Barry Ehsman]

With the heading i thought it was another thread about politics lol

[Volvo]

With the heading i thought it was another thread about politics lol

Never thought o that lol ..

[NAGG]

heck -

tackle & accessories chat - politics fits perfectly :D

What a cracker Barry :LMAO:

Chris

[NAGG]

Just a point on nylon - most polyamides (nylon) absorb water ....... nylons need to absorb X amount of water to reach their "optimum state" - in a wet environment they absorb too much & start to lose their properties . In essence you don't want to keep monofillament for a long time ( years ) - there are plenty of scholastic papers written on this . Buying 10 years worth of leader ...... yeh - Nah

Chris

[tunaticer]

Light plastics I use Nitlon DFC
Hardbodies is usually Either DFC or schnieder Klear Line
Live baiting is always Schnieder Klear Line

If i am chasing Mackerel I usually get the 10x out specifically for the extra stretchiness.

[steve099]

Salt strong did an interesting video on youtube on this exact topic and the brother with the beard swears his tests proved FC was an over priced gimmick when comparing strength etc...I will see if I can dig it up, it was quite an interesting clip.

sadly i still buy FC and have started using FC rock recently. its quite nice and ties well with no breaks yet. Any snags requiring force has resulted in it breaking when the jig head it tied on with a loop knot which is exactly what i want it to do as I dislike tying leaders while on the water.

[chris69]

Gee ive used FC rock 12lb for anything light for years and still use blackmagic for heavyer leaders for live baiting for jacks,i still use Andy pink for a butt leader on a fly line chasing tuna for its stretch at the boat when landing one,theres so many different leader materials out theres day.

Has anyone used any Pandera yet ive bought a 60lb spool to try out being a hybreed mono fluro I'm curious about its sink rate.

[stevej]

i have fc rock in all sizes from 4pound to 60 in the tackle bag and never had a issue with it.

trees in the river can get quite abrasive with all the sand embedded in the wood and fc holds up better then straight mono on the few mono spooled bait-casters i have

actually thinking of going straight fluro for cod to save the hassle of tying leader knots in 1 degree temps and having to take the gloves off

[NAGG]

i have fc rock in all sizes from 4pound to 60 in the tackle bag and never had a issue with it.

trees in the river can get quite abrasive with all the sand embedded in the wood and fc holds up better then straight mono on the few mono spooled bait-casters i have

actually thinking of going straight fluro for cod to save the hassle of tying leader knots in 1 degree temps and having to take the gloves off

Hey Steve

Back to what I said earlier - leader material is not line & vice versa Fluorocarbon line is not leader material .

The FC leader is usually 100% fluorocarbon - it's stiffer more abrasion resistant than line . FC line is usually a co-polymer (blends of fluorocarbon & a polyamide - Seaguar who are probably the worlds leader (no pun intended) in fluoro lines & leader) co extrude two different FC polymers to create a better line .

FC line is certainly more abrasion resistant than mono .... but you still need leader to deal with the raspy nature of the cods mouth .
Yes you can fish FC "line" straight through ..... but it does depend on what you are fishing for & the structure being fished ........ finicky bream in clear water , trout , whiting .

Oh & another thing .... If you notice , FC line is generally only available in breaking strains of less than 20lb - if you have experience with FC you'll know why

Chris

[NAGG]

Salt strong did an interesting video on youtube on this exact topic and the brother with the beard swears his tests proved FC was an over priced gimmick when comparing strength etc...I will see if I can dig it up, it was quite an interesting clip.

sadly i still buy FC and have started using FC rock recently. its quite nice and ties well with no breaks yet. Any snags requiring force has resulted in it breaking when the jig head it tied on with a loop knot which is exactly what i want it to do as I dislike tying leaders while on the water.

I did see a couple of Salt Strongs videos ...... it was quite interesting but.
Personally I dont use FC leader for abrasion resistance - I'm more about the refractive index .

I like the FC Rock ......which I've been using for over a decade - certainly no reason to switch though sometimes it can be difficult to buy (sold out) . Daiwa J thread is ok too .... marginal difference

Chris

[stevej]

Ive got fc all the way to 60 pound for cod
and it’s mainly that gear I’m talking about as with the millers in millers I have to use fg knots and it’s a bit hard with eyes getting older and freezing weather

it’s a common thing to use for cod and the yanks use it for their bass swimbait gear as well

[NAGG]

Ive got fc all the way to 60 pound for cod
and it’s mainly that gear I’m talking about as with the millers in millers I have to use fg knots and it’s a bit hard with eyes getting older and freezing weather

it’s a common thing to use for cod and the yanks use it for their bass swimbait gear as well

What is the FC you are using ?

Chris

[stevej]

A mix of sunline fc rock and daiwa j thread

[NAGG]

A mix of sunline fc rock and daiwa j thread

I meant main line

[steve099]

I did see a couple of Salt Strongs videos ...... it was quite interesting but.
Personally I dont use FC leader for abrasion resistance - I'm more about the refractive index .

I like the FC Rock ......which I've been using for over a decade - certainly no reason to switch though sometimes it can be difficult to buy (sold out) . Daiwa J thread is ok too .... marginal difference

Chris

apart from the obvious refractive index of FC, i thought the logic was FC has stretch where as the braid does not. thus we get a balance of the best of both worlds when running braid , coupled with abrasive protection from sneaky fish trying to get off by rubbing up against structure.

please correct me if I am wrong, I am very new to the fishing and eager to learn as much as I can

I started with cheap FC, rookie mistake , moved to Shimano then discovered FC rock and the difference in tying knots with FC rock is just delightful for me. I use slim beauty knots for lighter setups and now starting to use FG on heavier lines as the SB does not work well with heavier setups over 20lb for me anyway.

[NAGG]

apart from the obvious refractive index of FC, i thought the logic was FC has stretch where as the braid does not. thus we get a balance of the best of both worlds when running braid , coupled with abrasive protection from sneaky fish trying to get off by rubbing up against structure.

please correct me if I am wrong, I am very new to the fishing and eager to learn as much as I can

I started with cheap FC, rookie mistake , moved to Shimano then discovered FC rock and the difference in tying knots with FC rock is just delightful for me. I use slim beauty knots for lighter setups and now starting to use FG on heavier lines as the SB does not work well with heavier setups over 20lb for me anyway.

Yes - that is correct ..... braid does have little stretch & yes FC has some stretch ( not as much as mono though)
FC is also denser & sinks ..... it aids in many lure fishing applications .

So where we see FC leader fail against Mono leader for abrasion - It doesn't deter me because

FC leader has more abrasion resistance than braid
FC leader sinks - better for most lure fishing
FC leader has a lower RI than mono leader
FC leader has a smaller diameter than mono leader of the same breaking strain
FC leader has less stretch than Mono leader

Chris

[Dignity]

Yes - that is correct ..... braid does have little stretch & yes FC has some stretch ( not as much as mono though)
FC is also denser & sinks ..... it aids in many lure fishing applications .

So where we see FC leader fail against Mono leader for abrasion - It doesn't deter me because

FC leader has more abrasion resistance than braid
FC leader sinks - better for most lure fishing
FC leader has a lower RI than mono leader
FC leader has a smaller diameter than mono leader of the same breaking strain
FC leader has less stretch than Mono leader

Chris

I must be buying the wrong FC as apart from the $5 range at KMart all my FC leader is definitely thicker than equivalent mono, or have I missed something.

[stevej]

I meant main line

suffix 832 for the heavy stuff

J braid or nitlon for the light stuff

[Volvo]

Most my leader material is purchased from BCF when on special though do use a lot of Mono line as previousely mentioned .
Though Chriss did write some helpfull info in his reply which has been stored in the old weary used up Noggin :)..

[NAGG]

I must be buying the wrong FC as apart from the $5 range at KMart all my FC leader is definitely thicker than equivalent mono, or have I missed something.

You missed something brother

From some brands that I've used over the years

30lb Ande Clear mono @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic supple @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic tough trace @ 0.5mm
30lb Shimano Tiagra @ 0.47mm
30lb Jinkai @ 0.48mm
30lb Daiwa Sparten @ 0.48mm
30lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.45mm

Vs

30lb FC Rock @ 0.435mm
30lb J thread FC @ 0.455mm
30lb Yamatoyo @ 0.47mm
30lb Seaguar premier @ 0.47mm
30lb Sunline System @ 0.435mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.435mm

50lb

50lb Ande Clear @ 0.7mm
50lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.6mm
50lb Black magic supple @ 0.65mm

Vs

50lb FC Rock @ 0.57mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.57mm


I guess this shows you get what you pay for

Chris

[Dignity]

You missed something brother

From some brands that I've used over the years

30lb Ande Clear mono @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic supple @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic tough trace @ 0.5mm
30lb Shimano Tiagra @ 0.47mm
30lb Jinkai @ 0.48mm
30lb Daiwa Sparten @ 0.48mm
30lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.45mm

Vs

30lb FC Rock @ 0.435mm
30lb J thread FC @ 0.455mm
30lb Yamatoyo @ 0.47mm
30lb Seaguar premier @ 0.47mm
30lb Sunline System @ 0.435mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.435mm

50lb

50lb Ande Clear @ 0.7mm
50lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.6mm
50lb Black magic supple @ 0.65mm

Vs

50lb FC Rock @ 0.57mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.57mm


I guess this shows you get what you pay for

Chris

Ok, I suspect there must be mono leaders, I was talking about straight mono to which I have slowly been making a return to instead of FC. Granted most of my fishing is reef fishing from 25m to 400m. In the deep stuff, we use FC atm but I dont know why we do it. Up to 100m I've been slowly using plain old mono, found it less prone to twisting line etc tying knots are easier, haven't found any change in catches and in the last 2 years have virtually depleted my stock of FC.
For my inshore fishing I use 8lb mono leader for flathead with 6lb braid. I used to use Cortlan 6lb braid but can't get it anymore since the pandemic. I've been trying Berkleys 9 strand braid in 6lb lately, great but too soft, as soon as a bit of a breeze gets up it balloons out.
Fishing is a constant challenge which is good for the brain they tell me.

[NAGG]

Ok, I suspect there must be mono leaders, I was talking about straight mono to which I have slowly been making a return to instead of FC. Granted most of my fishing is reef fishing from 25m to 400m. In the deep stuff, we use FC atm but I dont know why we do it. Up to 100m I've been slowly using plain old mono, found it less prone to twisting line etc tying knots are easier, haven't found any change in catches and in the last 2 years have virtually depleted my stock of FC.
For my inshore fishing I use 8lb mono leader for flathead with 6lb braid. I used to use Cortlan 6lb braid but can't get it anymore since the pandemic. I've been trying Berkleys 9 strand braid in 6lb lately, great but too soft, as soon as a bit of a breeze gets up it balloons out.
Fishing is a constant challenge which is good for the brain they tell me.

Ahhh I see

Back to what I said a few posts back ....... line is not leader

What is done during production to mono line to make it supple - cast well , have little memory & stretch ........ goes against what most people want from a leader material

Leader material will pretty well always be tougher & have less stretch than mono line .

Oh & btw ..... a quick check of some of the monofilament lines ..... they seem to be thicker than FC leader (mono's by Maxima , Ande , Trilene , Platypus &, Schneider )

As for deeper reef fishing ...... yes I would be using the Schneider mono line - it's tough as old boots & the deeper you go there is less effect / benefit of using Fluorocarbon .

Chris

[Volvo]

You missed something brother

From some brands that I've used over the years

30lb Ande Clear mono @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic supple @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic tough trace @ 0.5mm
30lb Shimano Tiagra @ 0.47mm
30lb Jinkai @ 0.48mm
30lb Daiwa Sparten @ 0.48mm
30lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.45mm

Vs

30lb FC Rock @ 0.435mm
30lb J thread FC @ 0.455mm
30lb Yamatoyo @ 0.47mm
30lb Seaguar premier @ 0.47mm
30lb Sunline System @ 0.435mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.435mm

50lb

50lb Ande Clear @ 0.7mm
50lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.6mm
50lb Black magic supple @ 0.65mm

Vs

50lb FC Rock @ 0.57mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.57mm


I guess this shows you get what you pay for

Chris

Cost of each would be interesting also ??..Like the old saying goes "Hard to teach an old Dog new tricks " so stay with what i know works for me Chris.
If it aint broke dont fix it :) and what i use works for me for what i chase from Estuary to offshore .
Mind you if i was into hardcore Sportsfishing like Marlin etc i would want to use the best of the Best so each has its use and advantage ey.
Like Some of the New Fancy reels out on the Market , not that i would like to or couldnt afford to spend that much on a Reel like the new Penn Authority for instance but with so many Reels allready sitting idle i sometimes think it would be a waste or money could be spent better eslewhere ??..
So much change and will be more to come Competing for the Market with better and stronger internals and dare say lifespan should be far longer depending how one looks after their gear ey .
Get so close to sometimes thinkin "Darn !!" will buy that Reel then i look into my Reel collection and spy a Daiwa Millionaire for instance 40 odd year old sitting there wishing for its owner to take it out for a day or two out tackle with a Fish and still as new as the day it was purchased lol..
So look at spending the $$ on the Boat in some way or other , More likely fuel now way prices are lol. New Sounder when and if this one packs it in as there surely are some nice units out there ide like sitting in front of me i could drool over ..
Or just spend it on the Grandkids :)..

[NAGG]

Cost of each would be interesting also ??..Like the old saying goes "Hard to teach an old Dog new tricks " so stay with what i know works for me Chris.
If it aint broke dont fix it :) and what i use works for me for what i chase from Estuary to offshore .
Mind you if i was into hardcore Sportsfishing like Marlin etc i would want to use the best of the Best so each has its use and advantage ey.
Like Some of the New Fancy reels out on the Market , not that i would like to or couldnt afford to spend that much on a Reel like the new Penn Authority for instance but with so many Reels allready sitting idle i sometimes think it would be a waste or money could be spent better eslewhere ??..
So much change and will be more to come Competing for the Market with better and stronger internals and dare say lifespan should be far longer depending how one looks after their gear ey .
Get so close to sometimes thinkin "Darn !!" will buy that Reel then i look into my Reel collection and spy a Daiwa Millionaire for instance 40 odd year old sitting there wishing for its owner to take it out for a day or two out tackle with a Fish and still as new as the day it was purchased lol..
So look at spending the $$ on the Boat in some way or other , More likely fuel now way prices are lol. New Sounder when and if this one packs it in as there surely are some nice units out there ide like sitting in front of me i could drool over ..
Or just spend it on the Grandkids :)..

& as I said earlier - this is a discussion that's been had around a campfire for decades & will probably be discussed for many years to come .

for me - I put a lot of time & effort into my bream & barra fishing ...... shallow water lure fishing for bream. - specially in clear water had me pulling my hair out (look at me today ::)) .... there wasn't much I didn't try .
Ditto for my Barra fishing where I put a lot of time & effort into what leader worked the best under what conditions ......
I've had involvement with a line manufacturer & sold raw materials to them ...... so I understand the difference .

Is leader material some kind of way for the manufacturer to make more money ....... with out a doubt - but it does cost more to make leader (process & additives - particularly PDVF)

I will always employ a leader material of some kind ...... & with the exception of schneider klear where I want the higher diameter .... it will not be monofilament line .

Now I read what you have written above & I totally get what you are saying . But If it wasn't about cost would you still have the same opinion ? . ..... leader is not something that is easily supported or disproved - heck my barra experiences attest to that. But hey I could probably throw on 100lb (0.8mm) Varivas FC leader on & improve my results ........ but at a cost . Like you , I haven't needed to go there (IMO)

Fishing always throws up the cost vs benefit thing ....... Jarvis Walker red suicide hooks vs Mustad Big red vs BKK octopus

Chris

[NAGG]

Line will always be the cheapest option ....... buy a 300m spool of Schneider for $20 or spend the same coin (plus a little more) on 50m of FC Rock - which is the best option ?

horses for courses

Chris

[Volvo]

And an argument that will still go on fer yonks Chris :). Tis what it is from a users/buyers perspective i guess and not that you are wrong in what you say either..

[NAGG]

And an argument that will still go on fer yonks Chris :). Tis what it is from a users/buyers perspective i guess and not that you are wrong in what you say either..

Absolutely ........ & if it's working for you & you have no concerns - Hey

Who knows - I might start tying snapper leaders with monofilament line & see how I go .

Chris