Trailer build

[Noelm]

Just in the process of getting the stuff together to build a new trailer for my Sharkcat, has anyone every tried to bend a curve in heavy rectangular tube? There is a place near me that can roll it, but they want $400 to do two bends/curves, it's not critical, just thinking it might look "nice" rang a trailer place (Makay) and they won't sell a curved piece.

[gazza2006au]

So your going steel Noel? You could probably buy a hydraulic square tube bender for $400 have u thought of cutting and bending than welding to save the 400 bux?

[Noelm]

I really don't need to bend it at all, Cat trailers are square, it was just a thought to put a curve at the front where it would meet the drawbar, just for looks. I thought about alloy, I beam steel, but decided on rectangular tube, in heavy wall thickness and block the ends, then fill them with oil, I built a trailer like that for a mate over 25 years ago, and it's still like new, I am using bits of my old trailer, all the running gear and so on, so only a frame kind of, then just roll the suspension setup under it. The only tricky bit is the guide up the tunnel, thinking of measuring and making it fixed, or fool around and make it adjustable, not sure on that bit yet.

[disorderly]

My local alloy welding place had a go at bending apiece of 75x75 3mm RHS for me to match the other crossmembers on my trailer...
His bender just squished it badly...no biggie because he said at the start he didnt know if it would do it and it didnt do it well at all...

[Noelm]

Hmm, doesn't sound good then does it?

[disorderly]

Hmm, doesn't sound good then does it?

Noel, thats probably why they have quoted you so much...because its not as easy as it sounds and you need the right gear for it.....

My bloke didnt charge me and made it clear at the start that he didnt know whether it would work or not but he would give it a go if I wanted him too......

[Noelm]

The engineering place near me said they could do it easy, but at a cost.....for $400 I will just make it like the old one, just a rectangle, 6 cross pieces (all flat and square) a drawbar, winch post/frame and it's done, until I get to the tunnel guide. The hardest part is cutting the old one to bits to rescue the good bits to reuse, but that's near done now, using the old skids and stuff, just looking for the cheapest steel, lots of places don't have any at all, best so far is $330 for an 8M length and I need two, so not too bad really.

[Noelm]

I was going to replace the entire spring setup, because it has got "funny" roller rocker springs, they have an eye at one end and a kind of long oval eye at the other, plus they are 60mm wide, the spring place said to leave it like it is, as they claim it's a far superior system, so I am taking their advice. The brakes and stuff are fine, as are the wheels and so on, not a huge fan of hydraulic brakes on boat trailers, but that's what I have. I might buy a new winch (even though it really never gets used) it has a strange one, when you wind the handle it tightens up on a kind of fibre disc, when you turn the handle back, it releases the disc, and the drum can freewheel, never seen one like it before, but it's years old and still OK.

[gazza2006au]

Are u buying australian steel Noel? Im sure u are, u can get really cheap steel up here there is a factory in narellan i use but mostly i use edcon steel

[stevet]

It must be slow - taking the pis5

[catshark]

alloy cat trailer on gumtree for 3k lismore, suit the 560 model seems cheap though seeing mine had cost me 7 k few years back

[catshark]

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/lismore/boat-accessories-parts/shark-cat-trailer/1285153997

[Noelm]

Are u buying australian steel Noel? Im sure u are, u can get really cheap steel up here there is a factory in narellan i use but mostly i use edcon steel
What's the name of the place at Narellen? I need some steel for a "cheap" non critical job soon, the trailer steel I am getting local.

[Noelm]

alloy cat trailer on gumtree for 3k lismore, suit the 560 model seems cheap though seeing mine had cost me 7 k few years back
I saw that, but it seems it has been modified a bit and the guy seemed a bit hard to get info out of when he had it advertised elsewhere, it should have sold in minutes if it was any good.

[Lovey80]

Even if the running gear is stuffed you could roll yours under it. That’s a bargain unless there is something seriously wrong with it.

[Noelm]

Yep it is, I saw it advertised a few weeks ago, he was asked a few questions and didn't really answer them.

[shakey55]

I saw that, but it seems it has been modified a bit and the guy seemed a bit hard to get info out of when he had it advertised elsewhere, it should have sold in minutes if it was any good.

Noel probably this place

https://www.steelsupplyco.net

Isn’t port Kembla just up the road a bit. Surely somewhere around there sells the stuff

Shakey - If only I lived near the coast

[Noelm]

Yep, Port Kembla is only 10 minutes away, that's where I am getting mine from, but, I need some light gauge C channel for a little job that doesn't need "quality"

[gazza2006au]

Is is the place Noel http://juststeel.com.au/

There is a super cheap steel place in Minto but i suspect its Chinese steel as its so cheap

[gazza2006au]

What welder have u settled on buying? Hope u dont go with boc

[Noelm]

Going to use my stick welder to tack it all together and borrow my mates small MIG to fully weld it, confident using both systems.

[gazza2006au]

If i was a bit closer i would loan u my EWM PICOMIG 180 since u helped me heaps thru my build

[Noelm]

Got all my steel today, genuine Aussie steel, from a place in Port Kembla, it was $17 a length dearer than the "discount" places around Sydney, but they will cut it for free, and load it on for you, so in the end, a good deal, and only a 10 minute drive, I should take a couple of photos once I get it all set out, then after I weld it up.

[Noelm]

After grinding and rooting around for ages, I have decided to replace the cross pieces as well, took me forever to carefully grind them off so I could try to reuse them, so I will pick up a length of 75X50 tomorrow, there's 6 of them, but I will use the back one because it has all sorts of brackets and things on it for lights and a roller each side, plus the guide ring mounting.

[gazza2006au]

Might be easier going all new cross members as trying to cut each piece to within 1mm on a chop saw can be a real .... of a job and a real f... around when your doing multiple cross members

The thing is with chop saws tthe side u want to cut on your marking or line or usually feed the steel in from the left to right u need to account for the disc or blade thickness unless u feed the steel from the right to left but theres nothing holding the length up to the cutting bed height

Edit: read your going to get it pre cut thats a good option

[Noelm]

No, cutting them myself, I just got the steel place to cut the lengths in half for easier transport.

[gazza2006au]

Maybe weigh up your options on how much a whole new diy trailer will cost plus selling your old trailer vs salvaging old parts once u start welding your ganna have heaps of fun

[Noelm]

I am building a near complete new trailer, all I am using now is the winch and frame, the entire suspension, brakes, axles, wheels, drawbar, coupling and other odds and ends like the stainless brake lines, spare wheel and carrier, lights and the skids. I will probably try to sell the remaining stuff from the old trailer, I have some stainless 12" roller shafts, about a dozen 12" rollers, a light board, 5 600X9 wheels and tyres, the frame will go for scrap unless someone wants it for some reason, still has about a month rego.

[Noelm]

Might be easier going all new cross members as trying to cut each piece to within 1mm on a chop saw can be a real .... of a job and a real f... around when your doing multiple cross members

The thing is with chop saws tthe side u want to cut on your marking or line or usually feed the steel in from the left to right u need to account for the disc or blade thickness unless u feed the steel from the right to left but theres nothing holding the length up to the cutting bed height

Edit: read your going to get it pre cut thats a good option
Just to clear something up, the cross pieces sit on top of the main frame, not inside it like a mono would, as I said before, cat trailers are easy to build, just lots of work getting everything flat and square, I went a bit overboard with the frame material, I went for 4mm wall thickness, it will be pretty strong, the 75X50 cross bits are 3mm. Just dreaming about the guide ring up the centre, not too sure how I will attack that yet, trying to scrounge up some 40mm pipe, I will make some gizmos to hold it and make them adjustable, was going for simple, fixed, but talked myself out of it, would make life easy though.

[gazza2006au]

The center guide should be pretty easy to make u can hire a tube bender from places like kennards

[Noelm]

Yep, that's the easy bit, making it adjustable will be tricky. A couple of photos after I started cutting the guide ring off, most of it is almost ready to start welding now, no work this weekend, got family "stuff" on.

[Noelm]

The trailer looks reasonably good in those pictures, but......the third cross piece is completely rusted out, the left hand main side rail has had about a metre welded in, the right hand one is rusted out at the back, and one side rail onto the drawbar is rusted out, you can see the state of the guide ring, the rear curve was rusted right off. I started "patching" but it just started to get out of control, every time I cut something, it was paper thin and just made it hard to do anything substantial.

[Noelm]

OH, by the way, those sad old jacks and pieces of wood were used to try to straighten bent bits, and to Jack the guide ring out of the tubes welded onto the cross bits, years of salt water made them pretty "firm" to get out. Thinking about how I can cut the walkway off the middle without wrecking it, might end up just scrapping it.

[disorderly]

Personally i'd just go new with the walkway...
Clean new steel will make life easy..

Sorry I didnt read the whole thread..but just wondering if you intend to get the whole frame hot dipped once you have done the cutting and welding and what that may cost....?

[stevej]

nice view from the front door noelm

[Noelm]

Yes, it will be hot dipped, I have been quoted all sorts of prices from $10 per KG to less than half that, the local place near me is now only some kind of depot, you drop it off, fill in the details and it goes to Sydney, then up to Newcastle! The local place closed a year ago because of Covid and hasn't reopened. The ends of the tube will be sealed off with caps and some oil poured in them.

[Noelm]

nice view from the front door noelm
Yeah, sure is, I catch Bream just over the edge, and there is a "secret" Lobster hole just out a bit.

[Noelm]

If you look at the rear view, you can see one of the guide roller posts is bent over, I cut that bit of timber and was using that hydraulic jack to try to push it back straight. I kept pumping the jack, more and more pressure, it moved about 10mm, so I gave it a few more pumps...then.....bang, it slipped, that bit of wood landed on the bonnet of my Hilux, the jack flew across the driveway, near taking my elbow off, and the upright guide just sprung back to where it was.,

[gazza2006au]

Any idea why the under carrage is not rusting but the upper frame is? The trailer i towed my caribbean home on was the exact same very similar under carrage to yours and my top frame was cactus

When u weld your upper frame run some cheap small 30x30x3mm angle iron in a X it should keep the frame square while u weld it and use lots of tack welds before welding

Should come out really nice once its all galvanised, if u want to salvage the walkway just use a grinder to cut all the welds

[Noelm]

Yeah, it will take a lot if work to cut the walkway off though, it's kind of cut around the cross members, not just sitting on top, why it was done like that is anyone's guess, I might try and cut the mesh off, then just buy some small angle and weld it on top. Don't know why the suspension setup is OK, maybe it was double dipped or something? You can see the side I replaced a while ago, right on the back, it's kind of shiny.

[Ah Me Ting]

Just in the process of getting the stuff together to build a new trailer for my Sharkcat, has anyone every tried to bend a curve in heavy rectangular tube? There is a place near me that can roll it, but they want $400 to do two bends/curves, it's not critical, just thinking it might look "nice" rang a trailer place (Makay) and they won't sell a curved piece.

Might be a bit late, looks like you've already cut your steel ...

FYI

This patent: http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/transportable-shade-sheds-pty-ltd/patents/AU2001100106/

Used to make these sheds: https://shadesheds.com.au/

I know about them because a mate got one of their sheds to cover his boat. We looked into the 'secret' bend and swag and then realised it was actually pretty easy, so my mate then just made his own for his next project (the shed for the caravan!).

[Danf]

What are the legal requirements for a home made trailer in terms of ADR compliance?
I know that tow bar ADR standards have been in place for some time, preventing people from making their own legally, even if they are just as well engineered.
These tow bars I assume have to go through some static testing regime, to get approval.

[Noelm]

Not too sure about the "technicality" but in a way, I am just repairing a trailer (sort of) the running gear, winch setup, drawbar and so on will all be original, and the design is the same, how much can you repair before it becomes new? beats me, the basics are unchanged.

[gazza2006au]

There are alot of ADR requirements but unless your abook with legs the blue slip mechanic wont remember it all, my trailer passed without reflectors...lol

[gazza2006au]

Once u finish noel just swing it past the blue slip inspector and tell him what u replaced its likely not needed but if anything did happen down the road in your ownership or if u sell the boat on, you have your ass covered as the blue slip mechanic is the engineer and the blue slip contains an "engineers inspection and design check"

[Noelm]

I guess it is a bit grey and fuzzy, the bit with the VIN number will not be replaced, so, does that make it new? When I am all done I will call the RMS and see what goes on.

[gazza2006au]

No it should just come under modified trailer you just need it inspected so its had an engineers design check no different than upgrade say trailer springs but it will cover your ass if something happened, cheapest $50 investment

[Noelm]

Got most of the frame built today, going to put it on the suspension tomorrow (I hope) cutting the old one to bits is a pain, I should have used more new bits rather than cut old pieces off and grind clean, but I thought it would be easier, save making odd brackets and stuff. Nearly cut through a brake line, I started grinding and caught a glimpse of the stainless braid brake line poking out the end, it was a near miss, I will take some photos tomorrow.

[gazza2006au]

We need pics Noel :-) im heading down your way soon likely my next outing i wanna downrig some kingys

[gazza2006au]

I wasnt implying meeting up with u noel if it came across that way lol was just saying in general im likely heading down there to downrigg the breakwalls and get some squid off toothbrush island possibly some dinner plate snapper

[Noelm]

only got a picture of starting out, using the old trailer as a work bench to save bending over and moving heavy (very heavy) steel, this is at a friends house, not mine.

[gazza2006au]

Be careful of the fumes from welding the galvanised steel as u can get welding fever i heard its a horrible feeling

[Noelm]

Strangely enough, where we were working, it was enclosed on all sides, but no roof, the sun was blazing in, cooked us to death, and a few times I felt quite dizzy and had to sit down in the shade, maybe the fumes didn't help? mind you, I'm not a teenager any more.......took a couple of days to build the new frame, near killed me moving it off the work bench, (old trailer) then cut up the old trailer, then move the new frame back onto the suspension setup and bolt it all down, then just generally fiddle around getting things back together.

[gazza2006au]

You'll be able to see the light gray smoke i could also see the galvanise fizzle as i stick weld small portions of it, blokes that breeth the fumes say they get hot/cold fever flu like symptoms

The guys on the welding groups say u need to flap disc the gal off before welding

[gazza2006au]

I still weld gal steel knowing this but u can kind of place your head to the side while welding just so the smoke/fumes dont go straight up the inside of the mask also when u finish a bead step back from the smoke

[Noelm]

There was dozens of short welds, and miles of grinding, cutting new steel and then the old trailer, lots of bolts, U bolts and god knows what else, not a huge fan of working with steel, everything is heavy, dirty and razor sharp, just got to make the guide ring now and attach the brake lines properly.

[DATCOL]

Hi Noelm is that a Express boat in the background of your picture
Back years they use to drink milk to overcome the gal fumes from a welder

col

[Noelm]

I think it is, never seen it uncovered! Might try the milk thing when I make the centre guide ring, mind you, it's not as hot at my place as where we did the work, I got burned to a crisp, drank litres of water and home made Gatoraide, but still got dizzy and had to stop on the drive home in the shade!

[gazza2006au]

Heat stroke is real i have had those days working on the boat almost passing out than vomiting, take it easy

[Noelm]

Yep, being closed in, but no roof, the sun just beat down, add to that grinding, lifting, welding and generally doing everything the hard way, it was tough going, even with water and ice cold sports drinks, it was a blessing to get in the car and turn the AC on.