The great fridge debate

[NAGG]

Ok ..... It's been a while since we've spoken about 12 volt fridges ( typically a ford vs holden thing ... ie Waeco vs Engel)

My situation is that I need to buy a 40-50lt fridge for my boat based camping . Unfortunately my Waeco CFX40 was stolen & I replaced it with a permanently mounted Evakool drawer fridge in the back of the Navara . I have a Engel 80lt which has served me well for 14 years but at around 40kgs empty its just to big / heavy .
14 years for the Engel is a good run & except for the temp display - awesome . I only had the Waeco for about 4 years & it was faultless .... plus nice & light

So my experiences with holden & ford have both been good

Let me say - Evakool lasted 8 months before it died & was repaired ..... The bloke who did the fix specializes in refrigeration - specially 12 volt & it was here that we spoke about purchase options
Even before I posed the question - I could see that Dometic (Waeco) had issues (over represented)..... there were a few there being repaired including newer ones. It was an Engel free zone & then a mix incl a couple of others incl Evakool .... Apparently Evakool are problematic

Back to the question ..... what would you buy ?

If on a budget - Brass Monkey ( RTM / Jaycar) ..... He said that these were well made & he has seen little in the way of issues but that may be limited by how long they have been on the market.
I specifically asked about Waeco vs Engel ...... Engel hands down (look around) - Interestingly he then made a comment . " If you are cashed up & going to spend $1400-$1500 on a Engel - spend a little more - take a look at National Luna"


I had heard about National luna & knew of their heritage ( built in South Africa for the transportation of medical supplies) but had never seen one or knew of anyone with one- On paper they look good (stainless steel) - 70 mm insulation ....... Anyhow i'm going to check them out.

Finally I asked about "Trailblaza" ..... Ugly but quality - If the Australian army use them , they must be decent .

You dont hear of issues or see them come in (National Luna / Trailblaza) ...... all the others Kings , Bushman , Evakool etc have their issues. With Engel when they do let go the cost of repair can warrant buying a new fridge - parts are expensive.

Anyhoo - I thought this was an interesting discussion & am interested in what others have experienced.

Cheers

Chris

[Funchy]

If you are going to be running on solar for decent periods of time go an Engel every time

[scottar]

Father in law has a Trailblaza that he has had for longer than I have been married to his daughter.........which is a loo.......ong time. Been faultless. Very robust but heavy.

[DATCOL]

Trailblaza is king I have found Evacool very good for after sales service I have returned to the factory a cupel of times over the past 8 to 10 years with small problems that have fixed at no charge also had a cable plug that was loose fitting & was told that there was a improved up date plug & they sent me one free of charge

Col

[Dignity]

Father in law has a Trailblaza that he has had for longer than I have been married to his daughter.........which is a loo.......ong time. Been faultless. Very robust but heavy.

Yep, I've got a 60 litre Trailblaza (still made at Moffat Beach), robust, heavy but it keeps things cold longer than any of the others and draws very little power. I don't use it any more so I better put it up for sale.

The Evacool ones are generally imported from Malaysia etc not made in house anymore but the ones that were are still going (I still have an earlier one and it does work extremely well and does get to minus 20C).

Engel- a mate owned them but he did have 3 fail on him over a 25 year period so not necessarily fail proof but then we did some pretty rough travelling in those days.

Waeco - overpriced, used to be stable but recently more failing these days.

Other brands I can't say as I have no knowledge of people using them.

[gunna]

Chris - the daughters partner has just been through this exercise. He is very keen on the Snomaster. More modern features. Remote control. I think Bluetooth to phone. The 56L he is looking at is fridge and freezer and both can be swapped about ie more fridge or more freezer depending on the daily need. Only trouble is the wait time.

http://www.snomaster.de/en/home

[shortthenlong]

Here's my 2.2 cents Inc GST

I have an Explorer - like a Trailblaza. Heavy, tough dual thermostat. I have had it for 20ish years and it spent the first 10 or so living in the back of a ute. Only played up once when a conection failed and it was so simple I redid all the wiring while I had the cover off. Still runing 24/7 in the back of my wife's 100 series. The bummer is they aren't being made anymore

I also now own what is refered to as "the lettuce box". My wife got sick of me running the fridge at beer temp and ruiining her lettuce so I bought a $400 ALDI special. It lives in the kitchen of the camper and my wife is in charge of it I just supply the power. It is a just a rebranded Waeco - I have put it side by side with my mates older Waecos and you could swap parts. I think in the most recent ALDI sale they sold them as Waecos. It hasn't caused us any fuss in the last 5 or so years.

I also have a BIL who swears by Engel

i think it really is like the Ford/Holden thing. Buy what fits that is at a price that suits. If it is going to have a tough life in a ute and I had the money I'd probably go a Trailblaza otherwise Engel or Waeco.

Great clarity

Matt

[disorderly]

As far as I knew Engel use a compressor made in Japan which has a good reputation, Evacool uses the German Danfoss/secop which waeco also used to use but now Waeco fridges and compressors are Chinese made which likely explains the quality issues..

Evacool also has a top of the line fibreglass infinity range which is made locally..

We recently bought an 80l Evacool travelmate with the Secop compressor and 5 yr warranty at an Evacool half price sale.

Havent had it long enough to determine how good it is...

Nagg what issues did your guy say that evacool were experiencing and what problem did you have with yours...?

[NAGG]

As far as I knew Engel use a compressor made in Japan which has a good reputation, Evacool uses the German Danfoss/secop which waeco also used to use but now Waeco fridges and compressors are Chinese made which likely explains the quality issues..

Evacool also has a top of the line fibreglass infinity range which is made locally..

We recently bought an 80l Evacool travelmate with the Secop compressor and 5 yr warranty at an Evacool half price sale.

Havent had it long enough to determine how good it is...

Nagg what issues did your guy say that evacool were experiencing and what problem did you have with yours...?

My 40lt drawer fridge - just stopped working .
Old mate pulled pulled the back off & it played around with the connections - tested it & was on my way in 2 hours . His big concern was the readout failure because it would illuminate slightly ..... but nah - all good now.

Old mate reckons he sees too many issues with Evakool ...... but he said their support is generally great .

Chris

[Lovey80]

I just recently went through this exercise for myself and looked at all of them except the Luna.

In the end It came down to the Dometic and the Engel. I went the Dometic for a few reasons. I didn't like in the Engel how the cooler plates sat off the inside of the insulation. If a can freezes and explodes its a pain in the ass to clean. The new CFX range of Dometic fridges no longer use the old Danfoss/Secop compressor made in China. They use what I think is the only variable speed compressor in any of the fridges. It is their own design.This in theory should use less power when you need to go long periods without shore power. Also I didn't like how the dual zone freeze/fridge works on the Engel with basically an insulation plate in the middle to stop half of it freezing.The Dometic has a proper dual zone. So far I am super impressed with the CFX and love how the app shows you recent power usage etc so you can track how the fridge uses power and when. So you can adjust your habits etc and or remember to keep it out of the sun etc. I've only used the freeze on one side and set it at -15degrees and was impressed with how fast it went from 3deg to -15.

That said, you can only get a Dual Zone in the larger sizes so that rules out the Dometic for you if you want a DZ In that 40-50L size bracket. It's either freeze or fridge only. The other thing that would come into play if in your situation would be the Engel compressor has like one moving part. That would seriously come into my considerations on a boat that will get that extra pounding than in the back of the ute. Can the Engel work off 24v? If so, it would work great for you to be able to hook it straight to your 24v TM battery.

I hope you take a deep dive into the Luna and report back on what you find.

[NAGG]

I just recently went through this exercise for myself and looked at all of them except the Luna.

In the end It came down to the Dometic and the Engel. I went the Dometic for a few reasons. I didn't like in the Engel how the cooler plates sat off the inside of the insulation. If a can freezes and explodes its a pain in the ass to clean. The new CFX range of Dometic fridges no longer use the old Danfoss/Secop compressor made in China. They use what I think is the only variable speed compressor in any of the fridges. It is their own design.This in theory should use less power when you need to go long periods without shore power. Also I didn't like how the dual zone freeze/fridge works on the Engel with basically an insulation plate in the middle to stop half of it freezing.The Dometic has a proper dual zone. So far I am super impressed with the CFX and love how the app shows you recent power usage etc so you can track how the fridge uses power and when. So you can adjust your habits etc and or remember to keep it out of the sun etc. I've only used the freeze on one side and set it at -15degrees and was impressed with how fast it went from 3deg to -15.

That said, you can only get a Dual Zone in the larger sizes so that rules out the Dometic for you if you want a DZ In that 40-50L size bracket. It's either freeze or fridge only. The other thing that would come into play if in your situation would be the Engel compressor has like one moving part. That would seriously come into my considerations on a boat that will get that extra pounding than in the back of the ute. Can the Engel work off 24v? If so, it would work great for you to be able to hook it straight to your 24v TM battery.

I hope you take a deep dive into the Luna and report back on what you find.

I couldn't fault my CFX40 . ..... The CFX range was a improvement over the older models . As mentioned in the original post - there were certainly a few Waeco / Dometics in for repair & old mate said as much ..........seeing them lined up like that reminded me of my accidental wander through an Evinrude service center & seeing all those ETECs with their power heads off - I went straight to Yamaha.

I'm going to have a good look at the Luna's next week

If I was going to buy a big fridge - i would seriously consider Trailblaza ...... it's just that they are huge for the capacity even in the compact model ..... & I'm sure they would weigh heaps

​Chris

[NAGG]

Chris - the daughters partner has just been through this exercise. He is very keen on the Snomaster. More modern features. Remote control. I think Bluetooth to phone. The 56L he is looking at is fridge and freezer and both can be swapped about ie more fridge or more freezer depending on the daily need. Only trouble is the wait time.

http://www.snomaster.de/en/home

They are good too - another South African company .......

Chris

[NAGG]

From a personal standpoint - in smaller fridges how practical are dual zones ? . Yeh sure in 80lt plus - without a doubt - I certainly like my 80lt Engel combi & have used it to make ice over night while still keeping stuff refrigerated (just watch the lettuce ;D) with that kind of freezer space (35 liters ish) 124149 you can actually use it as I do ... that's a 10 Lt container of water plus some bottles

A 60lt might be ok - but I think once you get to less than 40lts of fridge space .... what you can keep & the time away becomes limited (IMO)

It's why I'll probably look at single zone between 40-55lts ..... I typically take an esky anyhow , so I can make enough block ice / freezer packs when I need too & keep the weight at a manageable level ..... I mean that Engel weighs around 42kg empty - a 40-55lt alternative is down to 22-26kgs which is easily managed on my own .

Anyhoos what's everyones thoughts on dual zones - how do you use your fridge ?

Chris

[shakey55]

My contribution to this is simple.

ENGEL, I’ve got three. A 40 and a 21 that have not missed a beat in 15 years.

I’ve also a newer 40 that has not missed a beat in 8 years.

Can only speak about mine and have no knowledge of the other brands mentioned. I have heard stories about several of the brands, but I will not elaborate as they are only hearsay.

Good luck with your researching and final choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums

[NAGG]

My contribution to this is simple.

ENGEL, I’ve got three. A 40 and a 21 that have not missed a beat in 15 years.

I’ve also a newer 40 that has not missed a beat in 8 years.

Can only speak about mine and have no knowledge of the other brands mentioned. I have heard stories about several of the brands, but I will not elaborate as they are only hearsay.

Good luck with your researching and final choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums

Appreciated - Ditto for me with Engel ......

However when put alongside some of the competition - they fall short on things like power draw , weight , insulation etc ...... & I wont even go into stuff like bluetooth etc .

Why I'm looking outside of Engel is going to a stainless cabinet / interior appeals & some of the other offerings are more efficient - that's a good thing when you are off grid .... 70/75mm insulation vs 50mm makes a difference




Chris

[Lovey80]

I couldn't fault my CFX40 . ..... The CFX range was a improvement over the older models . As mentioned in the original post - there were certainly a few Waeco / Dometics in for repair & old mate said as much ..........seeing them lined up like that reminded me of my accidental wander through an Evinrude service center & seeing all those ETECs with their power heads off - I went straight to Yamaha.

I'm going to have a good look at the Luna's next week

If I was going to buy a big fridge - i would seriously consider Trailblaza ...... it's just that they are huge for the capacity even in the compact model ..... & I'm sure they would weigh heaps

​Chris

were the ones lined up the latest models with the variable speed compressors or the Danfoss/Secop? I think they’re only a few years old and available in the CFX3 range.

[NAGG]

were the ones lined up the latest models with the variable speed compressors or the Danfoss/Secop? I think they’re only a few years old and available in the CFX3 range.

none of the CFX3 ..... but certainly a couple of CFX2s which was the one I had


Chris

[NAGG]

Well the National Luna fridge arrived this morning & it's certainly an impressive piece of kit -:thumbsup: 124164 Nicely finished & the stainless steel used will certainly not show marks easily . fitting are stainless steel with glass filled polyamide (Nylon) corners ,handles & hinges - good solid plastic baskets 124165

For 40lts it's certainly looks much bigger than an Engel ... confirmed (footprint 0.240 sqm vs 0.227 sqm) - no Waeco / Dometic 40lt these days - but the CFX3 45lt is bigger at 0.276sqm (to be expected)

Good layout in the interior & as you can see from the photo - takes my 10lt jerry can which I freeze for my Esky . 124163

OK what is really impressed me was the turbo boost which took the fridge from ambient 18 deg to Zero in 20 mins - dropping it to -20 deg C took 13 mins (without the boost) ..... power consumption when running is about 3.5 amps ( boost is 5 amps)

It's reasonably quiet ..... a little louder than my old CFX40 but much quieter (without the vibration) of the Engel .

I'm now testing how long it will take to freeze a 1.5lt freezer gel filled bottle which I generally take on camping trips . (6 hours :thumbsup:)

Anyhow ... lets see if it proves itself over time - but I plan to run it continuously for the next month on a mixture of 240 & 12 volt (probably let it spend some time in the canopy to get bumped around - once the cover arrives.

Looks to be a good buy

[ranmar850]

The new CFX range of Dometic fridges no longer use the old Danfoss/Secop compressor made in China. They use what I think is the only variable speed compressor in any of the fridges. All danfoss/secop BD35/50 compressors have the ability to be multi-speed. Their default setting is 2500rpm, lowest setting. If you look at the wiring diagram, you can add a pot in there to vary the speed up to 4000rpm. Resistances required are specified to get the required speeds. i have been using this on my home-made 130 litre camping freezer runnin g a BD-50, turning up the speed as required.


OK what is really impressed me was the turbo boost which took the fridge from ambient 18 deg to Zero in 20 mins - dropping it to -20 deg C took 13 mins (without the boost) ..... power consumption when running is about 3.5 amps ( boost is 5 amps) This is just likely the same thing, just running the compressor faster, this does use a higher current, but overall energy use may be little more due to the shorter running time required.

I am all Engel nowadays for the "bought" fridges--boat fridge and camping freezer are home made--My CF 80 Waeco started getting unreliable after 10 years, intermittent fault kept cropping up, no good on a long trip away. The 60 litre MT-V Engel was actually best value for me at the time (mid last year), and fitted the space in the camper the most efficiently. I also then bought an MT-V 45 to live in the rear of the space cab . Impressed with both of them, but as someone else said, having the cool plate mounted off the wall makes it very hard to clean. But, this also gives you the ability to replace them if they leak--those, such as Waeco with the sealed-in cold plates are a throwaway if it leaks refrigerant, unrepairable.

[NAGG]

. All danfoss/secop BD35/50 compressors have the ability to be multi-speed. Their default setting is 2500rpm, lowest setting. If you look at the wiring diagram, you can add a pot in there to vary the speed up to 4000rpm. Resistances required are specified to get the required speeds. i have been using this on my home-made 130 litre camping freezer runnin g a BD-50, turning up the speed as required.

[/COLOR] This is just likely the same thing, just running the compressor faster, this does use a higher current, but overall energy use may be little more due to the shorter running time required.

I am all Engel nowadays for the "bought" fridges--boat fridge and camping freezer are home made--My CF 80 Waeco started getting unreliable after 10 years, intermittent fault kept cropping up, no good on a long trip away. The 60 litre MT-V Engel was actually best value for me at the time (mid last year), and fitted the space in the camper the most efficiently. I also then bought an MT-V 45 to live in the rear of the space cab . Impressed with both of them, but as someone else said, having the cool plate mounted off the wall makes it very hard to clean. But, this also gives you the ability to replace them if they leak--those, such as Waeco with the sealed-in cold plates are a throwaway if it leaks refrigerant, unrepairable.

As mentioned previously - cant really fault my Engel & to be honest I dont know of too many (if any) who do ..... With such a long reliable history they should be right up the top of any list . Mine will be 15 yo this year & it's been running 24/7 for the last 5 years .... so no arguments there.
That said there are alternatives which are less known but also have strong reputations & some advantages ..... Stainless steel cabinets for instance / better seals / thicker insulation.
It will be interesting to see how the National Luna handles high ambient temperatures as these things are meant to hold -20 @ 40 deg C ...... I know my Engel struggles a bit with high temps & you want to freeze stuff.
The other thing is that this NL- can go down to -30 - I'll need to grab a temp gauge & see if it really is -30 (It's bloody cold that's for sure)

Chris

[Lovey80]

. All danfoss/secop BD35/50 compressors have the ability to be multi-speed. Their default setting is 2500rpm, lowest setting. If you look at the wiring diagram, you can add a pot in there to vary the speed up to 4000rpm. Resistances required are specified to get the required speeds. i have been using this on my home-made 130 litre camping freezer runnin g a BD-50, turning up the speed as required.

[/COLOR] This is just likely the same thing, just running the compressor faster, this does use a higher current, but overall energy use may be little more due to the shorter running time required.

I am all Engel nowadays for the "bought" fridges--boat fridge and camping freezer are home made--My CF 80 Waeco started getting unreliable after 10 years, intermittent fault kept cropping up, no good on a long trip away. The 60 litre MT-V Engel was actually best value for me at the time (mid last year), and fitted the space in the camper the most efficiently. I also then bought an MT-V 45 to live in the rear of the space cab . Impressed with both of them, but as someone else said, having the cool plate mounted off the wall makes it very hard to clean. But, this also gives you the ability to replace them if they leak--those, such as Waeco with the sealed-in cold plates are a throwaway if it leaks refrigerant, unrepairable.

Do the Danfoss compressors require the user to vary the speeds of the compressor or does the compressor/fridge determine its own speed needs?

[ranmar850]

If they don't have the function automated, which most don't, it can be managed by the user manually, or there is an automation after-market device available . There is a good guide from Danfoss here https://assets.danfoss.com/documents/30264/AN024186435267en-000601.pdf look under the heading of Thermostat and it is explained. I was out with the figures I quoted earlier are out--the standard fixed speed is 2000rpm, you can run them up to 3500 rpm. There is a very good short video here on youtube re speed control on these.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Ug0JtW3q8&t=87s













If you have any interest at all in knowing how these things work, watch the excellent series of short videos by CoastalClimate on Youtube. Their channel is here https://www.youtube.com/user/CoastalClimate/videos look for the Tech Tip videos. All short, informative and to the point.

edit--Did I cover this before? Can't remember? anyway, forgot to add, my speed control device is probably simpler than the manual one shown above, just a potentiometer of the right range from Altronics, wired in series with the thermostat and appropriate terminals. And shows up as a knob with some marking on the outer case. hard anti-clockwise, standard 2000rpm, hard clockwise 3500 rpm, with the other two steps marked between. Adter advice from a marine fridgie versed in these things, I don't run it hard out, as he says the evaporator is likely undersized, a fault of those dometic package deals. But running it harder can make a yuge difference to run times.One evening, as it cooled down a bit ( ambient around 23 deg) @ 2000 rpm it took 20 minutes to drop the 2 degrees to thermostat cut-out. Running @ 2500 rpm, it took 6 minutes. So energy use is actually less, the slightly higher run current more than offset by the much shorter run time.

[NAGG]

Has anyone been able to find the weights of Trailblaza fridges ? - I've only ever been able to find the dimensions

I know they are bulky ( the ones that I've seen) - just not sure of the weights

Chris

[Lucky_Phill]

Great post and comments guys.

I am afraid you all got a tad technical for me....::)

I just want a fridge that works...... anyhoo.
7 years ago I bought an old Evacool off a mate including slide for SFA. I worked OK, but reading temp lights was a pain. Then it started freezing stuff and then not, all by itself.

I then bought a Kings on the strength of advice that was simple.... if it works for a month, it'll keep working, if not it'll be a simple fix. Fingers crossed I've had it a long time, taken it to Cape York and lived in the back of the Colorado, It came with remote temp readout thingie, but to be honest, I never used it. I like the reversible lid, easy settings and light inside. It did exactly what I wanted it to do. 65ltr job. Draws bugger all power.....

I took the old Evacool to a repair shop ( caravan shop ) down my way and $200 later all fixed, but the part required took weeks to find in Australia and basically does not exist anymore. Yes, it is an old model :)

So I now have 2 fridges ( each can freeze ) and happy with both, because the budget is intact.;D

I think if we can buy an Australian made product, we should. Evacool do have a good rep for service.

cheers LP

[Corry]

I've always had Engel fridges for all our outback and remote travelling, when setting up our current ute back camper, wanted a drawer fridge... so, didn't look to far, went straight to the Engel option. Only 30 odd litres, but exactly what we wanted.
We built the area of the camper around it with the batteries and air con, all knowing how reliable every other Engel I've had has been. Well, nearly exactly 2 weeks after the warranty run out, it failed (it actually failed within the warranty period but we weren't anywhere where we could remove it).
I figured no worries, I'll just pay to get it fixed. Took it to an Engel repairer, and it turns out, it's a compressor issue, and Engel don't do the spares for them. All they can suggest is we buy another one. For the $900 these things cost for a 30 litre fridge, and having the first one not last, that's definitely not happening. So now I'm off to find another drawer fridge (even contemplating an upright) that will fit in the same space that was built for the Engel.
My other 3 fridges have run faultlessly, with one of them being permanently in an open boat, so disappointing that Engel can't repair some of their models.

[scottar]

Has anyone been able to find the weights of Trailblaza fridges ? - I've only ever been able to find the dimensions

I know they are bulky ( the ones that I've seen) - just not sure of the weights

Chris

Found a Choice review that had the weight of the 50 litre at 35kg. Sounds about right going by the father in law's unit. They are the sort of thing you can lift on your own but it's a much more comfortable proposition as a two person lift.

[NAGG]

Found a Choice review that had the weight of the 50 litre at 35kg. Sounds about right going by the father in law's unit. They are the sort of thing you can lift on your own but it's a much more comfortable proposition as a two person lift.

that doesn't surprise me ..... I remember seeing a bloke call over his mate to lift one out of the back of his ute (it stuck in my mind) . Now I hate lifting my 80lt Engel (42kgs) its awkward as much as heavy - but even with 2 blokes it s a total pain lifting it in & out of a boat when landing at a beach ..... .hence why I went to a 40lt Waeco previously.

35kgs for a 50lt is just too heavy & why I didn't go looking at Trailblaza fridges ..... 25kgs was was it - the lighter the better



Chris

[shakey55]

I've always had Engel fridges for all our outback and remote travelling, when setting up our current ute back camper, wanted a drawer fridge... so, didn't look to far, went straight to the Engel option. Only 30 odd litres, but exactly what we wanted.
We built the area of the camper around it with the batteries and air con, all knowing how reliable every other Engel I've had has been. Well, nearly exactly 2 weeks after the warranty run out, it failed (it actually failed within the warranty period but we weren't anywhere where we could remove it).
I figured no worries, I'll just pay to get it fixed. Took it to an Engel repairer, and it turns out, it's a compressor issue, and Engel don't do the spares for them. All they can suggest is we buy another one. For the $900 these things cost for a 30 litre fridge, and having the first one not last, that's definitely not happening. So now I'm off to find another drawer fridge (even contemplating an upright) that will fit in the same space that was built for the Engel.
My other 3 fridges have run faultlessly, with one of them being permanently in an open boat, so disappointing that Engel can't repair some of their models.

Cory, what state do you live. If Sydney (NSW), there is an Engel repair bloke out Blacktown way, he is very good and has been known to keep many spare parts from fridges, and has repaired fridges that other people have said ‘no way, need to be replaced’. I’m sure he is still there. If interested let me know and I’ll get the details for you


Shakey - If only I lived near the coast

[NAGG]

I've always had Engel fridges for all our outback and remote travelling, when setting up our current ute back camper, wanted a drawer fridge... so, didn't look to far, went straight to the Engel option. Only 30 odd litres, but exactly what we wanted.
We built the area of the camper around it with the batteries and air con, all knowing how reliable every other Engel I've had has been. Well, nearly exactly 2 weeks after the warranty run out, it failed (it actually failed within the warranty period but we weren't anywhere where we could remove it).
I figured no worries, I'll just pay to get it fixed. Took it to an Engel repairer, and it turns out, it's a compressor issue, and Engel don't do the spares for them. All they can suggest is we buy another one. For the $900 these things cost for a 30 litre fridge, and having the first one not last, that's definitely not happening. So now I'm off to find another drawer fridge (even contemplating an upright) that will fit in the same space that was built for the Engel.
My other 3 fridges have run faultlessly, with one of them being permanently in an open boat, so disappointing that Engel can't repair some of their models.

It doesn't surprise me - old mate pretty well said that to me ..... when Engels let go , it's often a case of buy a new one because the cost of the spares is so high -
you can't replace individual components .... or something like that .


That Engel fridge drawer wouldn't be that old though - would it ? .

Chris

[Lovey80]

Nagg, can you read the fine print on the 12v plug settings? Will your fridge run on 24v?

[NAGG]

Nagg, can you read the fine print on the 12v plug settings? Will your fridge run on 24v?

Input Power:
Battery: 9.5 – 31.5Vdc
Mains: 100 – 240Vac

Cheers

Chris

[wags on the water]

If you are going to be running on solar for decent periods of time go an Engel every time

Did you have trouble with my Waeco??

[Lovey80]

Input Power:
Battery: 9.5 – 31.5Vdc
Mains: 100 – 240Vac

Cheers

Chris

thats great. So if you need to your trolling motor battery will do the job nicely.

[NAGG]

thats great. So if you need to your trolling motor battery will do the job nicely.

Good point

do you run a single 24 volt battery for your leccy ?

I've thought about that in the past .... but stuck with 2 x 12 volt for ease of handling / charging options

Chris

[Lovey80]

Good point

do you run a single 24 volt battery for your leccy ?

I've thought about that in the past .... but stuck with 2 x 12 volt for ease of handling / charging options

Chris

I ended up going the 55lb 12v and went overboard on the lithium size to run everything except the outboard. But the Dometics can run on 24v too if needed.

[NAGG]

I ended up going the 55lb 12v and went overboard on the lithium size to run everything except the outboard. But the Dometics can run on 24v too if needed.

Nothing like having that extra capacity - one day you might need it (motor failure)

The other positive (no pun intended ::)) is that you'll probably prolong the life of the battery ........ My 200amp AGM has been going for well over a decade - simply because it really never got discharged lower than 50%

Chris

[chris69]

Ok ive bought a plastic engel eclips and was going to by a cover until i saw an youtube clip that a guy did and the cover restricts the air flow ,so to cover or not to cover just to add to the debate and not spend a heap of money for a cover that might be costing you battery life or help keeping your fridge cooler.

[Lucky_Phill]

Ok ive bought a plastic engel eclips and was going to by a cover until i saw an youtube clip that a guy did and the cover restricts the air flow ,so to cover or not to cover just to add to the debate and not spend a heap of money for a cover that might be costing you battery life or help keeping your fridge cooler.

Good question. I have a cover but don;t use it. Not a problem so far.
OH, Until I left the cover in my shed for 6 months... seems the local rodents took a liking to it..... destroyed it, now in bin. As well as dead rodents.

Lp

[NAGG]

It's interesting - I bought a cover for the new National luna .... now unlike the Waeco & Engel cover which are insulated - its just a ripstop nylon sleeve with a zip ..... the vents are covered by a mesh so no restriction on air flow . These covers I think are just there to protect the fridge from scuffing - I bought it to basically offer some spray protection when on the boat .

I would have thought that having some sort of cover (particularly if in the sun) would be beneficial - specially on a steel cased fridge like an Engel.

Chris

[chris69]

From what I've seen so far the metal case engel that run as a freezer develops condensation with the cover on were it doesn't with the plastic ones with a cover that might be why the national Luna cover was just a cover not insulated, in a youtube clip this guy said that he could only see a benefit with a cover if you lost power the cover might give you a little long before it warms up and that makes sense to me .

[NAGG]

From what I've seen so far the metal case engel that run as a freezer develops condensation with the cover on were it doesn't with the plastic ones with a cover that might be why the national Luna cover was just a cover not insulated, in a youtube clip this guy said that he could only see a benefit with a cover if you lost power the cover might give you a little long before it warms up and that makes sense to me .

I cant ever recall seeing my 80lt Engel with condensation - even right now it's running a -20 without any issues with the cover on - might be different in Summer but it's nothing I've noticed.

Chris

[Bremic]

I cant ever recall seeing my 80lt Engel with condensation - even right now it's running a -20 without any issues with the cover on - might be different in Summer but it's nothing I've noticed.

Chris

I kept an eye on this, when I first read about it. Never saw condensation inside the cover.

I did notice that the lid doesn't seal well. At night I could see a bit of light coming out of the fridge. Must put a bead of silicon on to seal it better.

[shakey55]

From what I've seen so far the metal case engel that run as a freezer develops condensation with the cover on were it doesn't with the plastic ones with a cover that might be why the national Luna cover was just a cover not insulated, in a youtube clip this guy said that he could only see a benefit with a cover if you lost power the cover might give you a little long before it warms up and that makes sense to me .

I’ve been away and used one of my Engels continually as a freezer (with insulation bag) for a couple of months and never have I had one drop of condensation.


Shakey - If only I lived near the coast

[NAGG]

I'd always go with a cover if one is available - I'm pretty convinced that there is a benefit of keeping heat / sun directly off the cabinet .
keeps the scrapes , dings & scuffing down too.

Chris

[ranmar850]

Early Engels were highly deficient in the insulation department, particularly in the lid. Originals' covers were to help with insulation as well as cosmetic protection. You could put your hand between the lid and the cover, and it would be noticeably cold. Later ones are better in that respect, and the cover, IMO, is mostly for cosmetic protection. my MT-V 45 , running as a freezer, doesn't get noticeably cold between cover and lid. And zero condensation.

[NAGG]

Early Engels were highly deficient in the insulation department, particularly in the lid. Originals' covers were to help with insulation as well as cosmetic protection. You could put your hand between the lid and the cover, and it would be noticeably cold. Later ones are better in that respect, and the cover, IMO, is mostly for cosmetic protection. my MT-V 45 , running as a freezer, doesn't get noticeably cold between cover and lid. And zero condensation.

has there been any improvement in the insulation of Engels (50mm) sides & 30mm on the lid ?

Turn an Engel off & the temp rises pretty quickly is what I've noticed. ...... I just turned off both the Engel & NL - I'll check them in 2 hours

chris

[ranmar850]

I think the oldest Engels were pretty thin on the lid. Subsequent ugrades saw them get a bit better. But, IIRC, it was really the lid that was the problem. I just remember seeing the insulated covers when they first came out at a demonstration, and putting my hand in between, you could really feel the cold it was keeping in. Any insulated cover will aid any fridge with energy consumption, as long as it does not interfere with airflow to the condensor.

[NAGG]

Well the National Luna fridge arrived this morning & it's certainly an impressive piece of kit -:thumbsup: 124164 Nicely finished & the stainless steel used will certainly not show marks easily . fitting are stainless steel with glass filled polyamide (Nylon) corners ,handles & hinges - good solid plastic baskets 124165

For 40lts it's certainly looks much bigger than an Engel ... confirmed (footprint 0.240 sqm vs 0.227 sqm) - no Waeco / Dometic 40lt these days - but the CFX3 45lt is bigger at 0.276sqm (to be expected)

Good layout in the interior & as you can see from the photo - takes my 10lt jerry can which I freeze for my Esky . 124163

OK what is really impressed me was the turbo boost which took the fridge from ambient 18 deg to Zero in 20 mins - dropping it to -20 deg C took 13 mins (without the boost) ..... power consumption when running is about 3.5 amps ( boost is 5 amps)

It's reasonably quiet ..... a little louder than my old CFX40 but much quieter (without the vibration) of the Engel .

I'm now testing how long it will take to freeze a 1.5lt freezer gel filled bottle which I generally take on camping trips . (6 hours :thumbsup:)

Anyhow ... lets see if it proves itself over time - but I plan to run it continuously for the next month on a mixture of 240 & 12 volt (probably let it spend some time in the canopy to get bumped around - once the cover arrives.

Looks to be a good buy

Well - I'm rapidly approaching two months ...... mostly running on 240 vlt & it is going well .

Last week I decided to run it off my 100amp Lithium battery to see just how long I can run this thing on 12 volt before the battery is drained. I know having a fridge inside in winter is hardly a big ask - so I set it at -10 deg C ..... & then a couple of days in put a 10lt spring water bulk pack in to freeze ( That makes sure the fridge has to work) _ Just ticking over 72 hours now with the battery sitting at 12.9 volts . :thumbsup:

I'm pretty happy with those results as I'm trying to get to around 150 hours on the one 100amp battery ...... that's one step closer to not needing to take a generator with me on my Whitsundays trip.
After I run this test - then I'm going to crank the fridge up to -20 deg C & do the same test ...... that will be interesting.

Chris

[Lovey80]

I wouldn’t expect to get another 75 hours out of the lithium if the battery is that flat.

[disorderly]

I wouldn’t expect to get another 75 hours out of the lithium if the battery is that flat.

I agree...

.124404
but voltage, particularly under load, is not a very accurate measure of the batteries SOC..to get a very accurate SOC reading you need a shunt and a display monitor of some description..

This is the one I use..it has a display on the dash and also an app for the phone...

124405

[NAGG]

I wouldn’t expect to get another 75 hours out of the lithium if the battery is that flat.

What's your best guess ?

Chris

[NAGG]

I agree...

.124404
but voltage, particularly under load, is not a very accurate measure of the batteries SOC..to get a very accurate SOC reading you need a shunt and a display monitor of some description..

This is the one I use..it has a display on the dash and also an app for the phone...

124405

I'm no expert on this stuff ... far from it . but I have doubts

LiFePO4 batteries can have a shutoff down as low as 8 volt - My Fusion is 8 volt - Enerdrive is 11.2 volt

My fridge is set at 11.7 volts (low voltage) ..... That's a medium protection setting

So for my test - I'll be running this test till the fridge shuts down .

Chris

[disorderly]

The discharge curve tells all, mate..

124414

You can see that between 10-20% and 80-90% there is only a minute voltage drop which shows how difficult it is to get an accurate SOC from a voltage reading but the voltage drops significantly after SOC reachs 10 % and voltage will crash from 12-12.5v down to 10v or below if you allow it to fully drain..

[Lovey80]

I would have guessed less than 10 hours if your cut off is 12.8v. Though if you took the fridge off the battery for 10 minutes and see what it comes up to, It’d give a better indication on SOC.

[shakey55]

This may be worth a read for those with lithium batteries or considering lithium

https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Lithium_Battery_Smart/en/battery-charging-and-discharging.html


Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums

[NAGG]

I would have guessed less than 10 hours if your cut off is 12.8v. Though if you took the fridge off the battery for 10 minutes and see what it comes up to, It’d give a better indication on SOC.

Made a boo boo :-[


Last week I decided to run it off my 100amp Lithium battery to see just how long I can run this thing on 12 volt before the battery is drained. I know having a fridge inside in winter is hardly a big ask - so I set it at -10 deg C ..... & then a couple of days in put a 10lt spring water bulk pack in to freeze ( That makes sure the fridge has to work) _ Just ticking over 72 hours now with the battery sitting at 12.9 volts . :thumbsup:

It was 4 days yesterday - (96 hours) not 3 days (72 hours)

OK - It's dead now - the Fridge low voltage kicked in at 115 . 5 hours with the battery sitting at 11.6 volts (tested 30 mins after shutdown)

So nearly 5 days - set at minus 10 deg C - ..... (30 deg below ambient ) At least I now know ..... I'm guessing 4 days use in NQ on the one 100amp LiFePO$ battery.

​Chris

[NAGG]

This may be worth a read for those with lithium batteries or considering lithium

https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Lithium_Battery_Smart/en/battery-charging-and-discharging.html


Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums

One point to note was backflow from low drain electronics

When I installed my 2 x Victron charges to manage the 2 x LiFePO$ batteries (leccy) I made sure that each charger connected through their own breaker ..... this way when not in use (plugged in to 240 volt) - I trip the breaker & there is no backflow to the charger .

I cant remember the exact figure but it's something like 0.5amps ..... that's 12 amps / day :o In my case - just over 9 days my chargers could flatten my Batteries & another couple of days we could permanently damage them

Certainly food for thought.

Chris

[Lovey80]

Made a boo boo :-[



It was 4 days yesterday - (96 hours) not 3 days (72 hours)

OK - It's dead now - the Fridge low voltage kicked in at 115 . 5 hours with the battery sitting at 11.6 volts (tested 30 mins after shutdown)

So nearly 5 days - set at minus 10 deg C - ..... (30 deg below ambient ) At least I now know ..... I'm guessing 4 days use in NQ on the one 100amp LiFePO$ battery.

​Chris



Am I reading this correctly? You got another 20 hours from 12.9v until the shut off at 11.6v?

[NAGG]

Am I reading this correctly? You got another 20 hours from 12.9v until the shut off at 11.6v?

So yesterday morning at around 10am - it reached 4 days (12.9V) ...... & shut down at around 6 ish this morning ...... so basically yeh 20hrs

Chris

[Lovey80]

So yesterday morning at around 10am - it reached 4 days (12.9V) ...... & shut down at around 6 ish this morning ...... so basically yeh 20hrs

Chris

i think I was pretty close then. Once below 12.8 it would deteriorate rapidly.

[brett62]

One point to note was backflow from low drain electronics

When I installed my 2 x Victron charges to manage the 2 x LiFePO$ batteries (leccy) I made sure that each charger connected through their own breaker ..... this way when not in use (plugged in to 240 volt) - I trip the breaker & there is no backflow to the charger .

I cant remember the exact figure but it's something like 0.5amps ..... that's 12 amps / day :o In my case - just over 9 days my chargers could flatten my Batteries & another couple of days we could permanently damage them

Certainly food for thought.

Chris

What model Victron charges are you using. I wouldn't have thought you would get back flow as this could damage the chargers ? I actually thought the chargers would have protection built in for this.

[NAGG]

I see that National Luna fridges are being sold by Anaconda now - worth having a look if you are in the market for a new fridge .


www.anacondastores.com/camping-hiking/power-cooling/fridges/national-luna-50l-legacy-dual-zone-fridge-freezer/BP90174202

[NAGG]

What model Victron charges are you using. I wouldn't have thought you would get back flow as this could damage the chargers ? I actually thought the chargers would have protection built in for this.

Bluesmart 12/25

I just had a look at the data sheet ...... I thought that the power draw was 0.5amps - its actually in watts so it's around 0.042 amps (1 amp / day) - This power is used for the LEDs & bluetooth monitoring .

Chris

[NAGG]

Well the National Luna fridge arrived this morning & it's certainly an impressive piece of kit -:thumbsup: 124164 Nicely finished & the stainless steel used will certainly not show marks easily . fitting are stainless steel with glass filled polyamide (Nylon) corners ,handles & hinges - good solid plastic baskets 124165

For 40lts it's certainly looks much bigger than an Engel ... confirmed (footprint 0.240 sqm vs 0.227 sqm) - no Waeco / Dometic 40lt these days - but the CFX3 45lt is bigger at 0.276sqm (to be expected)

Good layout in the interior & as you can see from the photo - takes my 10lt jerry can which I freeze for my Esky . 124163

OK what is really impressed me was the turbo boost which took the fridge from ambient 18 deg to Zero in 20 mins - dropping it to -20 deg C took 13 mins (without the boost) ..... power consumption when running is about 3.5 amps ( boost is 5 amps)

It's reasonably quiet ..... a little louder than my old CFX40 but much quieter (without the vibration) of the Engel .

I'm now testing how long it will take to freeze a 1.5lt freezer gel filled bottle which I generally take on camping trips . (6 hours :thumbsup:)

Anyhow ... lets see if it proves itself over time - but I plan to run it continuously for the next month on a mixture of 240 & 12 volt (probably let it spend some time in the canopy to get bumped around - once the cover arrives.

Looks to be a good buy

Over a year in now with the National Luna & I'm impressed . :thumbsup:

This thing has run 24/7 since it arrived - I've done a few trips away with it & it hasn't missed a beat .
The fridge hasn't been defrosted since early January & has been set at - 30 Deg C ...... this is what the icing looks like today 125952

By Comparison - My Engel has been defrosted twice .

It's much quieter than my Engel or Waeco was & the compressor seems to run less frequently .

Finally - I did have a mishap where it fell (long story ) around 70cm on it's side ....... There were plastic containers inside that shattered but nothing happened to the fridge - didn't miss a beat .

So a year in & I'm very happy ....... certainly no hesitation in recommending them as an alternative to a Engel or Dometic .

Chris

[ronmac]

Iv'e had my engel since 1980 flogged the living daylights out of it, About to invest in a 2nd. Both 40lt . cheers Ron.

[Lovey80]

I see that National Luna fridges are being sold by Anaconda now - worth having a look if you are in the market for a new fridge .


www.anacondastores.com/camping-hiking/power-cooling/fridges/national-luna-50l-legacy-dual-zone-fridge-freezer/BP90174202 (http://www.anacondastores.com/camping-hiking/power-cooling/fridges/national-luna-50l-legacy-dual-zone-fridge-freezer/BP90174202)

$1495 for a 50L fridge? Does it make fresh filtered ice and make you a drink too?

[NAGG]

$1495 for a 50L fridge? Does it make fresh filtered ice and make you a drink too?

That's not much more than an Engel 40lt which retails at around $1440

What you are getting though is a fridge with a stainless steel case & internal lining ..... which is a big plus when using it on my boat.

Minus 30 freezing with a boost setting

So it certainly does come with benefits when compared to all the others in the market & National Luna have been around a long time with a strong reputation ( designed & made for transporting medicines in Africa) .

I bought mine on the back of what I was told by probably the leading 12v fridge repairer in Sydney - A bloke that does all the warranty work for pretty well all the leading brands ....... So in my mind that's a pretty rock solid recommendation .

Chris

[Lovey80]

I think I paid the same amount for my Dometic CFX 3 95L fridge. I’d back that fridge to do everything the Luna does and I’d expect it to use less power too.

[Dignity]

Last year I bought a 50l Brass Monkey as a backup for around $300 on special. Now I figured I wouldn't get much for that amount of money but it has a separtor panel that allows fridge one side , freezer the other or fridge both sides or freezer both sides or remove the panel and have one big fridge or one big freezer.
1st thing I noticed was how quickly it pulled down to freezing, next was the amount of power used was ridiculously less than my Trailblazer and my Evakool as the first few times I had an inline meter running.

Now Chris probably uses his a hell of a lot more than I do and suits his purpose but I'm happy with my cheapie.

The other thing is my freezer at home only pulls down to -23°C maximum, or is that minimum so -30°C is some serious power there.

[NAGG]

I think I paid the same amount for my Dometic CFX 3 95L fridge. I’d back that fridge to do everything the Luna does and I’d expect it to use less power too.

I hope it does for you

I've owned a Dometic CFX 40 & it didn't miss a beat it the time I owned it ....... I've also seen how many were on the service bench

I'm not here to poo poo peoples purchases ...... I'm just sharing my experiences on the NL

Chris

[NAGG]

Ok ..... It's been a while since we've spoken about 12 volt fridges ( typically a ford vs holden thing ... ie Waeco vs Engel)

My situation is that I need to buy a 40-50lt fridge for my boat based camping . Unfortunately my Waeco CFX40 was stolen & I replaced it with a permanently mounted Evakool drawer fridge in the back of the Navara . I have a Engel 80lt which has served me well for 14 years but at around 40kgs empty its just to big / heavy .
14 years for the Engel is a good run & except for the temp display - awesome . I only had the Waeco for about 4 years & it was faultless .... plus nice & light

So my experiences with holden & ford have both been good

Let me say - Evakool lasted 8 months before it died & was repaired ..... The bloke who did the fix specializes in refrigeration - specially 12 volt & it was here that we spoke about purchase options
Even before I posed the question - I could see that Dometic (Waeco) had issues (over represented)..... there were a few there being repaired including newer ones. It was an Engel free zone & then a mix incl a couple of others incl Evakool .... Apparently Evakool are problematic

Back to the question ..... what would you buy ?

If on a budget - Brass Monkey ( RTM / Jaycar) ..... He said that these were well made & he has seen little in the way of issues but that may be limited by how long they have been on the market.
I specifically asked about Waeco vs Engel ...... Engel hands down (look around) - Interestingly he then made a comment . " If you are cashed up & going to spend $1400-$1500 on a Engel - spend a little more - take a look at National Luna"


I had heard about National luna & knew of their heritage ( built in South Africa for the transportation of medical supplies) but had never seen one or knew of anyone with one- On paper they look good (stainless steel) - 70 mm insulation ....... Anyhow i'm going to check them out.

Finally I asked about "Trailblaza" ..... Ugly but quality - If the Australian army use them , they must be decent .

You dont hear of issues or see them come in (National Luna / Trailblaza) ...... all the others Kings , Bushman , Evakool etc have their issues. With Engel when they do let go the cost of repair can warrant buying a new fridge - parts are expensive.

Anyhoo - I thought this was an interesting discussion & am interested in what others have experienced.

Cheers

Chris

Hi All

I just dug this old thread up as frustration has got the better of me


Let me say - Evakool lasted 8 months before it died & was repaired

Well it died & was repaired 3 more times over the 3 years of ownership ..... The last repair back in Feb was a major one with pretty well all the electronics replaced (only the compressor remained) - while Evakool supplied the parts - it still cost me $250.
So literally days before my recent Kinchant trip - it died again ...... so I ripped the unit out of the car & used my old 80lt Engel for the trip.

On my return - I noticed that Kings have a 60lt drawer fridge for $540 & after having a good look at one - bit the bullet & bought it . Being 60lts it now has the capacity to pretty well do the job without a supplementary fridge needed on all but the bigger road trips. A 5 year warranty was the deal breaker.
It's only been in for a week or so - but I'm impressed with the temperature regulation holding fairly steady . I also added one of the Kings wireless thermometers which is a a great addition . Now to see how reliable it will be.

PS - the 40lt National Luna fridge is going great .

Chris

[Lovey80]

Great stuff Nagg. Posts like this are what make ausfish great. MAKE AUSFISH GREAT AGAIN!

[Dignity]

I must admit I'm really happy with my 60 litre Dual Zone Brass Monkey (paid just over $300 when they were first put on the market), pulls down quickly and easy to use. My Evakool (Malaysian import- they did/do a few) has had 2 returns under waranty, now it works well but every now and then goes into error. Switch it off, turn it back on and it works again. When it dies I'll probably get another Brass Monkey when they're on special.

[NAGG]

Great stuff Nagg. Posts like this are what make ausfish great. MAKE AUSFISH GREAT AGAIN!

All good - worth sharing experiences especially to avoid seeing others get burnt

Chris

[Lucky_Phill]

Update on my stuff. My 65ltr Kings has been going well for a number of years now, as eluded to in my post here back in 2021. Took it on my WA / NT / FNQ 2 month trip in 2022 and never failed.

I also have an " Arctic " 85ltr dual zone in the camper trailer ( Austrack ). Which once I understood the ins and outs, worked perfectly.

Just recently I watched a Youtube video on solar and 12v systems, including fridges and now have a much better understanding of all this.

My recent trip to remote Cape Melville put pressure on my in car 12v / solar system and now I know why. I took the 85ltr. I have now upgraded a couple of things and we are good to go.

The Kings 65ltr is still going strong and good enough for my shorter trips and to be used as a back up, when towing the camper.

LP

[Brettoh]

Engel are not the same since the competition arrived. They are just over priced and work no better than the cheaper ones. My Engel lasted about 3 weeks out of warranty and something broke. The repair was almost twice as much as the same size fridge from Supercheap including the insulating bag. It has lasted 5 years bumping around in the front of a trailer every day on crap rural roads.
Ive had a 45 ltr Brass monkey just infront of the passenger seat of the boat for 18 months and its still going strong.

You can buy close to 3 or 4 brass monkeys for the same price as the engel and Im betting the Brass Monkey warranty is easier to use too,

[NAGG]

I've always been a "buy the best you can afford kind of guy" & I'm also pragmatic enough to realise that things break down / fail .
When it came to this Evakool fridge drawer - it was a case of enough is enough ..... multiple repairs & replacement parts is a clear indicator that the components used are not robust enough. I got to see enough Evakool fridges in for repair to scrub them forever.

People are mentioning Brass monkey ..... & as old mate (12 volt repair dude) said a couple of years back that he was pretty impressed & had seen bugger all come in for repair . Several trips to his repair shop & I cant recall seeing any either ( just the usual suspects)

I still have no doubts that the best bet is to go with an Engel - before stepping up to the likes of a National Luna or a Trailblaza (if the budget allows) . ..... specially if you ae doing the big trips / extended trips .
I know that for me buying the Kings drawer fridge was a relatively easy decision due to the size (60lts) the price $540 ...... but more importantly that I generally carry the National Luna as well - So there is that redundancy factor when I'm away on those longer trips .

It's always interesting to see how others are going with their choices & what the longevity is . I have to say my 80lt Engel has nearly 17 years under it's belt which works out at around $100 / year ....... Aside from changing the battery for the thermostat it's been faultless

Chris

[GBC]

I'm yet to see a drawer or upright fridge that competes with a dirty old chest fridge. They either don't seal properly and ice up badly, or seem to manage to make a standard secop compressor pull 6 plus amps. Yes, evakool damaged their brand when they started importing gear. It's a shame because their fibreglass ones are still made here and are still great.

[NAGG]

I'm yet to see a drawer or upright fridge that competes with a dirty old chest fridge. They either don't seal properly and ice up badly, or seem to manage to make a standard secop compressor pull 6 plus amps. Yes, evakool damaged their brand when they started importing gear. It's a shame because their fibreglass ones are still made here and are still great.

I have to say - when the Evakool drawer fridge was going it was pretty good ....... no icing up (at all) & the power usage would typically average out at around 1 amp / hr (set at 0 deg C) . I'm finding the Kings drawer fridge has similar Just checked & it pulled 11 amps overnight (set @ 0.)

I really like the drawer fridges - Access is second to none & this 60lt allows for bottles to be stood up - so the useable space in on par with a chest type. To get that level of convenience with a chest type fridge - you need a drop down fridge slide which costs significantly more than my 60lt Kings fridge & has a 35-40% bigger footprint . :'(

Chris

[GBC]

Agree about the convenience/access of them both - great theory. A mate has an evakool drawer in his Golf Savannah caravan that he now uses as a cupboard unfortunately. Hopefully by gen 3 or 4 they'll have more bugs ironed out.