Queensland Red Throat Emporer Fishery = Healthy

[Lucky_Phill]

For those keen on the latest info / study :- http://era.daf.qld.gov.au/id/eprint/7492/1/redthroat%20emperor%20stock%20assessment%20report% 202020.pdf

It basically states RTEs in all areas off Qld are more than sustainable at the current rates and this has been due to the introduction of various management arrangements over the past years, 2004 being notable.

No matter your thoughts on this, it is the best " available " data to conduct these types of studies and produce the outcome.

Some good news for Qld's CRFF fishery. 8-)

A screen shot attached..... as document is 55 pages long, but a good read.

cheers LP

[Lovey80]

Thanks Phill that's interesting. So we are sitting 12% over the target minimum. Do you know where we can get some more details to learn more about this 20:60:60 Control rule?

[BigE]

So an increase in rec bag limits is on the cards ::)...... I mean if the data showed it was not sustainable we would decrease bag limits so it stands to reason that if the stock is in good condition then we could increase bag limits .... ;D

you love those data models where you can change all the data inputs and always get the same answer ;D very reliable the models always giving consistant answers to problems that don't exist.

BigE

[Lovey80]

So an increase in rec bag limits is on the cards ::)...... I mean if the data showed it was not sustainable we would decrease bag limits so it stands to reason that if the stock is in good condition then we could increase bag limits .... ;D

you love those data models where you can change all the data inputs and always get the same answer ;D very reliable the models always giving consistant answers to problems that don't exist.

BigE

Well that’s exactly right. Their target it to stay at 60% of virgin biomass so an increase in bag limit should be on the cards.

[Noelm]

So an increase in rec bag limits is on the cards ::)...... I mean if the data showed it was not sustainable we would decrease bag limits so it stands to reason that if the stock is in good condition then we could increase bag limits .... ;D

you love those data models where you can change all the data inputs and always get the same answer ;D very reliable the models always giving consistant answers to problems that don't exist.

BigE
Note that Phil mentioned available data, it's all we have, there has to be a line drawn in the sand as a reference, also mentioned, this healthy species I'd due to current bag and size limits, it would seem foolish to allow a bigger bag that "could" bring the species into danger, so an increase is not likely.

[BigE]

Note that Phil mentioned available data, it's all we have, there has to be a line drawn in the sand as a reference, also mentioned, this healthy species I'd due to current bag and size limits, it would seem foolish to allow a bigger bag that "could" bring the species into danger, so an increase is not likely.

I'm genuinely shocked ....... it could be possible that restrictions are a one way street reguardless of the data, guess the precautionary princible only goes one way eh?

BigE

[Noelm]

I'm genuinely shocked ....... it could be possible that restrictions are a one way street reguardless of the data, guess the precautionary princible only goes one way eh?

BigE
I am not against you on this, but as it stands, taking a "leave it as it is" stand might be the best long term option.

[gazza2006au]

If nsw is anything to go by they'll up the legal limits as the mass grows

Look here in nsw king fish were almost wiped out by trawlers the trawlers were banned in some locations and the king fish bounced back around that 2005-2010

Size limit back than was 60cm and over fast forward 2019-2020 king fish are in plauge proportions i have been out on 2 occassions where between 4 of us we have boated over 100 rat king fish in a mornings fish

What we got in return with the fish in plauges were bigger legal limits 65cm and bag limits

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[Lovey80]

If nsw is anything to go by they'll up the legal limits as the mass grows

Look here in nsw king fish were almost wiped out by trawlers the trawlers were banned in some locations and the king fish bounced back around that 2005-2010

Size limit back than was 60cm and over fast forward 2019-2020 king fish are in plauge proportions i have been out on 2 occassions where between 4 of us we have boated over 100 rat king fish in a mornings fish

What we got in return with the fish in plauges were bigger legal limits 65cm and bag limits

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I think you mean fish traps. No trawler moves fast enough to catch kings.

[Noelm]

Yep, big floating traps were used for Kingfish, I'm not fully convinced they caused the demise of Kingfish (certainly didn't help) but they have been banned for years and you're still hard pressed to catch a legal Kingfish these days, looking back to the "old days" Kingfish were almost a pest, they had little commercial value and rec anglers rarely kept them because "you can't eat them, there're rubbish" sometime around the early 70s that changed, jigging hit the scene and boat loads were landed and sold on the black market by rec anglers, and pros made a good living, Kingfish started to decline, then trapping hit the scene (almost by accident) this, combined with growing numbers of rec boats just finished off what was left. (In my opinion)

[blacklab]

pppppppppppppppppppp

[gazza2006au]

Not me Col that was Noels post

I have never eatin a fish i've caught im a very concous kind of guy i cant eat somethibg that was once looking at me

I bring the fish home for family my niece loves fish one time bought home a 70cm port kembla kingy my sister didnt know how to fit it in the oven haha

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[Dignity]

Gazza, If you think Kingfish is rubbish eating, you aint eatin it right Bud.
Many ways I've eaten it, but my favourite, is to cut into cubes, leave soaking overnite in a lemon/ onion touch of chilli based marinate, this actually partially cooks the fish. Remove from fridge next day, pan fry, on super hot skillet, for no more than a minute on two sides............Mothers milk Gazza. I have 2 or 3 other ways of cooking kingfish, but that is my favourite......

Col

Col - Unfortunately the further north you go the softer and mushier the flesh is, up here in Qld I don't know of anyone who keeps after their first time. But then again there a re a lot of tailor enthusiasts (good red emperor of Jew bait in MHO)so I guess it takes all kinds.

[Lucky_Phill]

Yep, guys, I think the best we can hope so is the " status quo " on RTE.

Using the best data available is not going to sit well with some, but it's all we have.

Until such time of ALL rec anglers keep a log, we will have to accept the data from FQ.

In an ideal world we would know the virgin bio-mass, recreational take, recruitment etc etc... but we never will.

Kingies, yep... some here in Qld turn to mush once they hit the pan, but not all... it's pot luck.

SO, do what I do... stick to the " other Kingie "....... Black Kingfish.... mmmmmm Cobia... yummo. :)


cheers

[gazza2006au]

..... ......

[gazza2006au]

Looks like QLD fisho's already have things leaning there way going by these two links

http://rules.fish.wa.gov.au/Species/Index/75

https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/fish-identification-information/fish-species-guide/fish-species-id-info/profile?fish-id=redthroat-emperor

Qld has a higher minimum size than WA but u can harvest more bigger fish they may bump up the size and lower the bag limits depending on what size and age the fish spawn going by the sizes in WA looks like they possibly breed young



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[Noelm]

It's a bit tricky to compare states when it comes to size and bag limits, the upper north coast of WA (where this species is caught) would have a tiny population compared to QLD, so fishing pressure would be way less, different bag limits and size limits depends on different localities, taking into consideration biomass and fishing sustainability, how these limits are arrived at varies according to local data.

[Dignity]

It's a bit tricky to compare states when it comes to size and bag limits, the upper north coast of WA (where this species is caught) would have a tiny population compared to QLD, so fishing pressure would be way less, different bag limits and size limits depends on different localities, taking into consideration biomass and fishing sustainability, how these limits are arrived at varies according to local data.

Yep "Oils aint Oils" as old Sol used to say. I had an article about flathead and the difference between fish maturing sizes for SE Qld and Central Coast NSW was quite different which is why different rules for different states. Often a fair bit of searching required to identify this and why so many people often complain about the rules without knowing the background.

[Noelm]

Fisheries has always been a contentious issue, bag limits too small, size limits too big or whatever, and in a really twisted way, we are our own worst enemies, rec anglers dispute every bit of data supplied, yet will whinge and say how we won't supply catch rate data, all "scientists" have to go is pro catch, legally sold through government markets, and research, how that data is used, or how the research is done is a never ending battle, but that's all they have.

[Noelm]

Just as an example, my local lake (Lake Illawarra) was in recent years discovered to contain a healthy Cockle number (Cockles are kind of like a Pippi with a ribbed shell) and they are pretty good eating, they have been in the lake forever, but about a year ago, someone discovered them and entire families descended on the lake, getting bucket loads of them, so much so, that the bag limit for Lake Illawarra was reduced from 50 to only 20, and there was an uproar, people were fined for exceeding their limit by thousands, but the numbers taken is still enormous, families from as far as Sydney descend on the lake with big buckets and get loads of them, and there's not enough inspectors to catch them, each family might include mum, dad, a couple of kids, granddad and cousins! The locals are now calling for a total ban on taking them at all, and they might succeed, simply because of this relentless pillaging, I know where there is a decent number of Razor Clams/Fish, those big triangle shaped Oyster things, but, so far it seems no one else has found them.

[gazza2006au]

Just as an example, my local lake (Lake Illawarra) was in recent years discovered to contain a healthy Cockle number (Cockles are kind of like a Pippi with a ribbed shell) and they are pretty good eating, they have been in the lake forever, but about a year ago, someone discovered them and entire families descended on the lake, getting bucket loads of them, so much so, that the bag limit for Lake Illawarra was reduced from 50 to only 20, and there was an uproar, people were fined for exceeding their limit by thousands, but the numbers taken is still enormous, families from as far as Sydney descend on the lake with big buckets and get loads of them, and there's not enough inspectors to catch them, each family might include mum, dad, a couple of kids, granddad and cousins! The locals are now calling for a total ban on taking them at all, and they might succeed, simply because of this relentless pillaging, I know where there is a decent number of Razor Clams/Fish, those big triangle shaped Oyster things, but, so far it seems no one else has found them.I heard about the petition for those pippis on a facebook fishing group they have been smashing that area of lake illawarra since the start of the year from what i have read and yeah the locals are really pissed

A lot of sydney goes north and south fishing i donno why inspectors are not populated in those regions surely fisheries is updated quiet frequently

I have never been approached by fisheries up or down the coast only ever in sydney

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[gazza2006au]

As for the RTE i always thought one species always spawns at a certain age or size no matter its location i thought it was a genetic thing

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[Noelm]

There is only 2 inspectors from somewhere like the Shoalhaven river right up to Sutherland, so it's a huge area to cover. Lake Illawarra Cockle poachers are just blip on their radar I guess, mind you, the fisheries office is only a couple of hundred metres down the road.

[Dignity]

As for the RTE i always thought one species always spawns at a certain age or size no matter its location i thought it was a genetic thing

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Even the humble snapper has a variation in growth and spawing age the further south you travel from qld.

[Lucky_Phill]

As for the RTE i always thought one species always spawns at a certain age or size no matter its location i thought it was a genetic thing

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Research tells us many things about fish and the varying species.

Environment, water temp, pollution, climate and habitat all play a part in spawning.......... as well as size.. and that size is between x and y, nothing set in stone.... as some fish will grow longer and quicker than others at same ages.

As a side issue, Flathead in Qld have a slot limit with ones over 75cms to be released back for " breeding purposes". Very specific science from a few years ago, show that Flathead ( like most species ) stop breeding at a certain age ( size ).......... it really means they are like humans... once they reach a certain age their eggs will not become fertile, despite their breeding activity. But we can't have 2 slot limits for each species.

Again, it is stated that Snapper in Qld have a recruitment of less than 5% in the wild and also if wild stocking were to occur, that same recruitment levels would be achieved or there abouts. So why do we not wild stock Snapper ? Govt types believe it is " not viable ". meaning no funding....... despite the clear evidence of the economic benefit to Qld of recreational fishing.

Anyway, back on track.

Policing of policy / rules is all good and well, but how about the clowns just " do the right thing " ?????

LP

[Noelm]

Doing the right thing is a much bigger issue than fisheries management, there is always a group that don't abide by rules and just take what they want when they want, it's never ending.

[gazza2006au]

Doing the right thing is a much bigger issue than fisheries management, there is always a group that don't abide by rules and just take what they want when they want, it's never ending.See it all the time and its done right in front of the publics eyes, botany bay sees quiet a few people taking undersize fish and its often questioned in the cleaning cage/table some guys just shrug it off than u get the abusive ones that go off over u telling them there fish are undersize

Cleaning table not a place to argue really..

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