STOP Commercial netting in the Great Sandy Marine Park !

[Scott Mitchell]

IT’S TIME to end damaging commercial netting in the Great Sandy Marine Park!


The Great Sandy Marine Park is THE ONLY Marine Park that allows commercial netting in what “should be” TRUE YELLOW CONSERVATION ZONE AREAS!


Ending damaging commercial netting in the Great Sandy Marine Park – which has already been tentatively listed as a World Heritage Area, will bring a much needed boost to an environment deserving of proper marine protection.
Using commercial nets to:




Target spawning aggregations MUST BE STOPPED
Target bream, whiting and flathead in conservation park yellow zones MUST BE STOPPED
Target top level predators like mackerel , trevally, barramundi , threadfin salmon and shark MUST BE STOPPED
Target low food value but high recreational fishing value fish like Golden Trevally, Snub nosed dart ( Permit ) , Queenfish, Giant Herring etc. MUST BE STOPPED
Incidentally catch dugongs and marine turtles is definitely MUST BE STOPPED

Sign this PETITION to request Dr Steven Miles - Minister for Environment and Heritage Protection and Minister for National Parks and the Great Barrier Reef and the Palaszczuk State Government to commit to ending destructive commercial netting operations in the Great Sandy Marine Park and adjacent waterways under the current full term 10 year review to restore fish stocks and help protect the Queensland urban coast’s largest dugong population.

Sign NOW @ https://www.change.org/p/dr-steven-miles-stop-commercial-netting-in-the-great-sandy-marine-park

And share with ALL your friends & Contacts ....

Thanks Scott Mitchell

Chairman
Fraser Coast Fishing Alliance Inc.

[ric]

So your signature line is 'so many fish.... So little time' yet people trying to feed their families commercially can't fish?

[Scott Mitchell]

Ahh - now I understand ....

This is not purely about declining fish stocks - although any one with some history on the water in the Great Sandy Straits ( Or inshore areas of Queensland for that matter ! ) will suggest they have witnessed declining fish numbers over time. I still remember what the world class golden trevally fishery looked like on the flats South of Moon Point only 10 years ago - Now hardly worth spending the time drifting across as they are like a desert !

This is more about which sector will return the highest economic yield for the local communities / resource sharing. You only need to look to our North at the NEW Net Free ZONES to see what can happen with increased recreational fishing tourism once the nets are removed - and there has not been any "fresh local fish " shortages in those areas since the nets came out either.

It was a poor political decision that created the Great Sandy Marine Park 10 years ago - And it will take "political will" to now "correct it" under the full term review...

Lets see what the wider recreational fishing sector wants ...

Regards Scotto

[kc]

This is a really problematic argument and hope, but doubt,it will have a happy ending. As someone with a foot in both camps, as a lifelong and passionate recreational fisher, and a buyer, in large volumes, of commercially caught fish and seafood I can see both sides of the argument, and see through the self-interests on both sides. There is no easy answer. Thereare however a few points up for debate.

1. The argument that a kilo of recreational fish is worth more than a kilo of commercial fish. At face value this seems plausible,but is it? If a guy is going fishing and spends, say, $100 for a day out, has $50,000 invested in a boat and gear, with a holding cost of 10% and catches ,say 100 kgs of fish a year in 20 trips. The fish has a nominal value of $70 a kg. If he catches 200 kgs its value is $35 a kg. The value of a day’s fishing however is seldom measured by the value of the fish caught, many people let them go in any case and it is a matter of how much more, or less fish would affect the persons choice to fish and what tourism/visitor impact will be better recreational fishery have. Certainly works for the Top End.

2. The argument that a kilo of fish to a pro is only worth the wholesale return is flawed. It is the value to the end user and multiplier effects on the economy which has to be considered. As some people will know, I am I the seafood restaurant industry and buy a lot of locally caught fish, both inshore netted and offshore line caught. A kg of barramundi I buy off a pro for $28 ends up on a plate at about $100 and employs chefs, waitstaff and cleaners along the way. It pays GST, commercial rent and the myriad of costs associated with running a restaurant so is its value $28 a kg or $100?Tourists come to North Queensland beachside destinations to holiday and dining,most particularly dining on local seafood is a major driver in people’s decisions when choosing a destination. The many many Chinese guests we now cater to are absolutely fixated on local seafood, and, I might add, can’t believe how cheapit is. Loss of this product would certainly impact on our tourism industry and I would suggest Hervey Bays industry as well.

3. Commercial fishers are, at times, their own worst enemies. Even up here I have seen them target Permit and Goldens, and Queenfish. All enormously important recreational targets and yet barely catfood status to the markets. I have seen them deliberately target really big Barra,which are tough, too big for the restaurant trade and just end up low grade product in the Sydney fish market and do damage to the local brood stock, all because they take a view that “if I don’t get them someone else will”.

4. The license system itself almost encourages a dog eat dog attitude amongst commercial fishers. Any number, particularly if they have been displaced from another closed zone, can descend on any fisheryand smash it in the quest to make a buck. There are 2 types of commercial fishers, one, like a farmer, has a plot and a vested interest in looking after his plot so he can continue to have a crop each year. The other, the blow in; Smash and grab whatever they can get with no consideration of the consequencesas they just move to another “farm” when they have stuffed the one they are working. It would, in my opinion, be far better to have controlled limited numbers of commercial guys, given specific areas to fish, TAC’s on all species and have specified no take species of low commercial value so that the clashes are not so obvious.

It’s a tough field to plow Scotty and finding a balance isgoing to be really hard. The “compensation” paid to guys to buy back licenses is not sufficient for them to leave the only industry many of them know, and then the system allows them to take the payout as a windfall, lease another licence and some quota and just get straight back on the water.

Tourism, even in Hervey Bay has many drivers. Catching a fish off the pier or beach in front of the van park is clearly one, having your own boat or going with a guide is another and then fish and chips on the beach or a dinner in a nice seafood restaurant is again, another part of the tourism experience and they are all interlinked. It is utopian but imagine if the only place in Australia to eat Hervey Bay seafood, was actually around Hervey Bay.Not only would it be a tourism driver but it would, on a supply and demand curve reduce the catch volumes and reduce commercial pressure and stop the “blowins” who could not sell into markets where local guys already had relationships with buyers.

The closures up our way have had a different effect. Around Seaforth it really had a very small scale tourism industry/restaurant industry and while it seems, anecdotally to have already improved the fishery it did so at the expense of the commercial industry with no real flow on positives (yet) to tourism in any meaningful way. How many years it will take to develop a tourism industry off the back of enhanced recreational fishing I don’t know, and don’t know if it ever will. Seaforth is not the Whitsundays. It has however certainly improved the fishing for the locals. Commercial fishers displaced from that area are now, or at least many of them are, fishing Repulse and Sinclair bay.It is getting a lot more pressure and the effect on the fishery is, as yet,unknown. We have just had a fair old blow up here which will also have an impact.

In simple terms Scotty, there is no easy answer, but a straight out net ban might not be it.

[kc]

Scotty as you move down this path, PM me your personal email address. I can send you the submission made to the Government by The Fishing Party (Qld) in 2005. Many of the things we warned about, have happened, and it may provide some good background information for you. This document was submitted when Desley Boyle was the responsible minister and we did get a few wins in the final park management plan. The very issue of TAC's and commercial fishing restrictions were however ignored.

kev

[Noelm]

If it's not about personal interests or dollars, how about a total marine sanctuary, for recs too, will that be the best option??

[kc]

Might be the best option for the fish but would just about destroy the Hervey Bay economy.

[Noelm]

That will probably be the case, but Scott's ramblings are almost entirely about conserving stocks, well so he says, in reality it's just like everyone else, they hate pros, and want them gone, so "we" can have all our fish, it's a never ending argument that has raged for decades and decades, and it will probably never end.

[Dirtyfuzz]

So what would be your solution? I don't agree with netting being a sustainable way of fishing and if something is not done then the government will step in and then everyone loses, I heard the stories from my old man and his mates of the decimation of the Bowen local mackerel stocks in the early 70's from gill netting, and history does have a habit of repeating itself


Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums

[kc]

Personally. TAC's on all species and restricted commercial license numbers allowed in the GSS, No roving licenses.. Plus strict species restrictions to ban the taking of low grade commercial but high grade rec species (Permit, Goldens etc).also be "nice" if there was some mechanism that at least a guaranteed % of the TAC had to be sold locally and spawning season closures where applicable (has certainly worked with barramundi). This would be about as close to a workable compromise as it would be possible to get IMO.

kc

[Noelm]

Yep, I tend to agree, trying to just get something banned on emotional terms about Dugongs and other things being slaughtered will probably go nowhere, a far better option would be a total catch system, and a better regulated licence system, it would take a lot of tweaking over time, but once it's sorted out, it would be a far better option for everyone. The ban all nets brigade will just ruffle feathers, how exactly would a restaurant get their seafood? It's not an easy job to sort out, but it can be done, and without emotional outbursts that have self interest in mind. (In my opinion)

[scottar]

The greenies love this sort of stuff - divide and conquer. To think that the increasing population of amateurs has had little effect on the fishing - not to mention the increase in exposure of "world class fisheries" courtesy of the fishing media and internet sites and the pressure that comes with it is naive at best. Blaming the net fisherman for the decline as a whole is IMO pretty poor. This doesn't mean for a minute I agree with wholesale slaughter but much like KC, I think a better approach is to try and find a workable solution of co existence.

[Scott Mitchell]

That will probably be the case, but Scott's ramblings are almost entirely about conserving stocks, well so he says, in reality it's just like everyone else, they hate pros, and want them gone, so "we" can have all our fish, it's a never ending argument that has raged for decades and decades, and it will probably never end.

For the record - "I do not hate pros or commercial fishers " !

Clarifying the situation – the Net Free Areas strategy was part of the State government’s Sustainable Fishing Policy released prior to the last State election. It is NOT a proposal, but a government policy.


The stated intention is to “maximise the economic value that Queenslanders receive from sustainable management of their fisheries resources.”


Without exception, studies of the economic value of inshore fish resources show that a kilogram of fish caught by a recreational angler is worth between 10 and 100 times the value of that same fish caught by a commercial fisher. Barramundi in particular has a huge multiplier effect and is on the fairly short list of iconic species recognized and valued internationally.

Our GSMP is NOT a Net Free Area proposal as much as it is a Marine Park Zoning anomaly - the GSMP is THE ONLY marine park in the country that allows commercial netting in what "should be " True Yellow Conservation Zones ! The "Great Sandy Designated Area" Or "Red Cross Hatched over lay" over our Yellow Zones was created by political will - and it will now take political will to "correct it" ....

Unfortunately truth and the facts have been largely absent in the public campaign being waged against the introduction of Net Free Areas & our Zoning anomaly in the GSMP. Like it or not, Queensland purchasers and consumers of fresh fish are choosing to buy product largely based on price position in the marketplace, not place of origin. Go into any supermarket and look in the seafood cabinet and you are unlikely to find any fresh fish for sale caught by the inshore commercial netting sector. But you will find ample supplies of farmed and imported fish for sale.


ABS figures reveal that around 70% of seafood purchased by Australians is through major supermarket chains. Supermarkets only stock products with high sales records, so if there really was a strong demand for local fresh fish among consumers, they most certainly would be catering to it – but they aren’t, because that market segment is so small as to be of little consequence to the large retailers.


So where are the fish that are being netted from our waters ending up?


The overwhelming majority of the catch is immediately dispatched and sold into southern and some international markets, with a very small percentage ever sold in local fish shops and retail outlets. It’s a simple matter of economics – you always sell to the highest bidder and a buyer willing and able to take all your product. I’m sure we’d all do the same thing and this is not something that netters should be criticized for.


The real local consumers of inshore fresh fish are the 40,000+ recreational anglers who live in Southern/Central Queensland. We like nothing better than coming home after a day’s fishing with a feed of fish for the family – whiting, flathead, Blue salmon, a barra and a Doggie mackerel !

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

Scotty as you move down this path, PM me your personal email address. I can send you the submission made to the Government by The Fishing Party (Qld) in 2005. Many of the things we warned about, have happened, and it may provide some good background information for you. This document was submitted when Desley Boyle was the responsible minister and we did get a few wins in the final park management plan. The very issue of TAC's and commercial fishing restrictions were however ignored.

kev

PM sent :-)

FYI - For 2016, nets accounted for 64 tonnes of barra from areas immediately adjacent to the CQ NFZ, and no less than 241 tonnes of fish overall. Put into historical perspective, the long term average barra catch from the Fitzroy River has been around 40 tonnes/annum for decades. It has only been since the climatic anomaly around 2010 that the catches from the river were way in excess of the average and that was never going to last anyway.

So, where is the issue with the supply of Fresh "local " fish - ? There isn’t one!

There is way more fish still being caught locally in nets than could ever be sold on the local market and most is still being sent directly to southern markets as always....

This is more about "which sector" will provide the best return for the local communities or "Highest maximum economic yield " while also managing / protecting one of the most significant marine eco systems in our state ?.....

Regards Scotto

[Noelm]

Hang on, we can't have it both ways, one minute it is slaughter and not sustainable, then you tell us the Barra fishery has been OK for decades, except for when it got better in 2010.

[kc]

Some right and wrong in your response Scott. Yellow zones in the GBR allow bait netting. Incidental catch, typically whiting, flathead and bream are caught and sold off the back of this anomoly.
That said the GGS zoning is complimentary zoning abutting a federal marine park with federal rules. GSS is state Government marine park and can, and does, have different rules to a federal marine park. A lot of detail around this point in the old TFPQ submission which pointed this out and strongly lobbied for a different colour to yellow..

You are right that the bulk of the fishery is sold straight to southern markets, not so much because it is a higher price, but because it is easier and the pros can sell the whole lot to a single buyer rather than have to sell it in small lots. Correct me if I am wrong but there is not a fish market in Hervey Bay where locals and local restaurants can purchase fish at auction??
Supermarkets are appalling in terms of local product, just as they are with meat and fruit and veg, and yet, consumers choose convenience and price over quality which has sent many butchers, green grocers and wet fish shops to the wall over the years. The "fresh fish for everyone" line is BS. It is fresh fish for Sydney, coming from Hervey Bay in perhaps unsustainable numbers.
Part of the reason for a suggestion that a certain % be mandated for local supply. That said do Hervey bay residents "own" the fishery or do the people in Australia in general? Clearly the Sydney fishery could never support the total Sydney demand.
The restaurant industry has been a bit slow on the uptake but should and can lead the way in driving food based tourism and a big part of this is providence of raw product. It is becoming a really big deal and ultimately this will drive better fishery management, better care of product and add value, both to the pros and to the value governments place on the fishery. Net free zones, as policy, is about politics, not about best fisheries outcomes. Like I said, no right or wrong answers and having spent years on this in my last life, I certainly don't have them, but do think workable compromise is possible.

[Scott Mitchell]

Some right and wrong in your response Scott. Yellow zones in the GBR allow bait netting. Incidental catch, typically whiting, flathead and bream are caught and sold off the back of this anomoly.
That said the GGS zoning is complimentary zoning abutting a federal marine park with federal rules. GSS is state Government marine park and can, and does, have different rules to a federal marine park. A lot of detail around this point in the old TFPQ submission which pointed this out and strongly lobbied for a different colour to yellow..

You are right that the bulk of the fishery is sold straight to southern markets, not so much because it is a higher price, but because it is easier and the pros can sell the whole lot to a single buyer rather than have to sell it in small lots. Correct me if I am wrong but there is not a fish market in Hervey Bay where locals and local restaurants can purchase fish at auction??
Supermarkets are appalling in terms of local product, just as they are with meat and fruit and veg, and yet, consumers choose convenience and price over quality which has sent many butchers, green grocers and wet fish shops to the wall over the years. The "fresh fish for everyone" line is BS. It is fresh fish for Sydney, coming from Hervey Bay in perhaps unsustainable numbers.
Part of the reason for a suggestion that a certain % be mandated for local supply. That said do Hervey bay residents "own" the fishery or do the people in Australia in general? Clearly the Sydney fishery could never support the total Sydney demand.
The restaurant industry has been a bit slow on the uptake but should and can lead the way in driving food based tourism and a big part of this is providence of raw product. It is becoming a really big deal and ultimately this will drive better fishery management, better care of product and add value, both to the pros and to the value governments place on the fishery. Net free zones, as policy, is about politics, not about best fisheries outcomes. Like I said, no right or wrong answers and having spent years on this in my last life, I certainly don't have them, but do think workable compromise is possible.

KC - There is a fish market/processing shop at the marina - Urangan Fisheries - but I do not believe they auction there ?...

The rest will now come down to public support and numbers ...

Regards Scotto

[kc]

Or drive this towards a workable compromise rather than an adversarial proposal. I can tell you local Pros don't like blow ins either. If you guys come up with a workable compromise you are more likely to get an outcome you can all live with. That said, Labor will be "casting for votes" and anywhere it thinks it can get them, it will try, regardless of the rights and wrongs. All I would caution is that there are 2 sides to this and it is less likely to be partisan if you reach an agreement with commercial fishos you can both live with.

[Noelm]

Yep, it's the only way, an uneasy, untrustworthy "alliance" is a far better option than attempting to ban everything you don't like, it's been tried for years to ban this and ban that, where a workable compromise might just tip the scales.

[chris69]

Ahh - now I understand ....

This is not purely about declining fish stocks - although any one with some history on the water in the Great Sandy Straits ( Or inshore areas of Queensland for that matter ! ) will suggest they have witnessed declining fish numbers over time. I still remember what the world class golden trevally fishery looked like on the flats South of Moon Point only 10 years ago - Now hardly worth spending the time drifting across as they are like a desert !

This is more about which sector will return the highest economic yield for the local communities / resource sharing. You only need to look to our North at the NEW Net Free ZONES to see what can happen with increased recreational fishing tourism once the nets are removed - and there has not been any "fresh local fish " shortages in those areas since the nets came out either.

It was a poor political decision that created the Great Sandy Marine Park 10 years ago - And it will take "political will" to now "correct it" under the full term review...

Lets see what the wider recreational fishing sector wants ...

Regards Scotto

Scott you say the moon point is dead like a desert well ,its the rec fishers that's killed it, everyone bragging and showing off on social media and gun fishers writeing articals on how and were to catch them that's how it has become a desert,you might kick the netters up there but you know the White Spot is heading your way and that is a lot worse than the netters.

As you no the pumicestone passage has been net free for a very long time now and nothing has change here the increased population is the bigger killer of fish stock here.

[SatNav]

1. Recreational fishing pressure and catch has absolutely exploded many times over during the past 30 years and in some confines the recreational people are worse than commercial people. If one does not know who is blacking fish in a community then one is not in the right circle.

2. Increased populations and environmental outflows have affected some species entirely in some areas, the commercial people then move on, the recreational people play the blame game.

3."Local fresh fish" signs I see at local fish shops get a bit of a chuckle as one knows dam well it simply did not come from the local area.

4. Then of course there is the bait issue!

[Almako]

In my opinion if we only sold fish locally then commercials guys wouldn't need to catch so much of it.
Stop sending fish overseas and stop selling houses to overseas investors.
Yes I am narrow minded but what does it matter no one listens anyway.

[kc]

Maybe not so much narrow minded as visionary. Precident exists in food based tourism that limits supply of particular iconic species to the area of capture, or at the least country of capture ( Halibut in the USA for example). With so much interest in food tourism and , particularly Chinese guests want "our seafood" it would be amazingly visionary if seafood exports from Australia were banned. Just imagine if the only place tourists could eat Australian seafood was in Australian. Abalone, Southern Rock Lobster, Coral Trout to name just 3 species where export markets have made these species all but gone from the domestic market. In China they pay $10 each for Coffin Bay Oysters, I have seen a single coral trout on menu of $1200 Aus, and, Almoko, you are right, IF seafood was not feeding an insatiable export demand, there would be far less pressure on fish stocks in general (due to our relatively small population and large EEZ), even if restaurant demand increased 1000%. Pick any number of species, Southern Blue fin Tuna, Orange Roughy. Blue Eye....food based tourism , coupled with our wine industry is real and a future opportunity which could both enhance our countries future and protect our fishery. So no, not narrow minded at all.

[Scott Mitchell]

Scott you say the moon point is dead like a desert well ,its the rec fishers that's killed it, everyone bragging and showing off on social media and gun fishers writeing articals on how and were to catch them that's how it has become a desert,you might kick the netters up there but you know the White Spot is heading your way and that is a lot worse than the netters.

As you no the pumicestone passage has been net free for a very long time now and nothing has change here the increased population is the bigger killer of fish stock here.

Chris - weekly netting is what has effected the flats South of moon point - not catch & release sportfishers !

You only need to look at the rec havens in NSW and what is already happening in the Fitzroy to see what happens once the nets are removed. I do agree that rec fishing management will also need to be reviewed going forward - which has also been clearly identified through out the Green Paper & now White Paper reviews if we have any prospect of returning our inshore fishers to 60% of where they used to be ...

Scotto

[sjp2]

yup remember the trevally tailing the flats below little woody about 15 yrs ago ,nothing now even though its a green zone.

[Scott Mitchell]

The actually flats on the Northern side of Little Woody are not a Green Zone ( just the deeper reef area to the South ) - but have been netted almost to death .....

Sign the petition and share far & wide if you want to see commercial netting STOPPED in the Great Sandy Marine Park - which goes up as far as Baffle Creek and down to Tin Can Bay .....

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

NOTE ! With the Zoning Plan for the Great Sandy Marine Park set to expire on 1 September 2017 the Minister has today approved a two phase process for the Zoning Plan review.


The first phase involves the renewal of the "current Zoning Plan" prior to September to ensure the continuation of the existing rules. The second phase triggers the review and consultative process in helping to shape the future directions for the marine park.


Phase 1 of the renewal process has commenced as at the 5th of May 2017 !


WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT NOW - Please sign and share this petition far & wide - if you want to see unrestricted numbers of commercial fishers STOPPED from Netting the GSMP !


NOTE - The Great Sandy Designated Area incorporates areas of conservation park zones in :-


* Baffle Creek & tributaries


* The Elliott River & tributaries


* The Burrum River & tributaries


* The Mary River & tributaries


* The Great Sandy Strait and Tin Can Bay Inlet


This anomaly overturns EVERYTHING a TRUE Yellow Conservation Zones is there to protect !


Sign this PETITION NOW @ https://www.change.org/p/dr-steven-miles-stop-commercial-netting-in-the-great-sandy-marine-park


To request Dr Steven Miles - Minister for Environment and Heritage Protection and Minister for National Parks and the Great Barrier Reef and the Palaszczuk State Government to commit to ending destructive commercial netting operations in the Great Sandy Marine Park and adjacent waterways under the current full term 10 year review to restore fish stocks and help protect the Queensland urban coast’s largest dugong population.....


Scotto

[SatNav]

1. The hypocritical side of the recreational brigade is apparently shining through brightly following the removal of commercial licences in the Fitzroy system. One would hope that every recreational fisher that is caught with or using tilapia for bait (specifically Barramundi) are hit with the full $60,000 fine.

[chris69]

What gets me Scott is that the netters have been there many many decades before you arrived in hervey bay, so whats changed from them netting back then to now?.

They stopped netting mackerel in hervey bay a long time ago so were's all the mackerel now there not turning up in moreton bay like they use too you would think that when you stop the netting there would be more.

[kc]

Good question Chris. What changed? Why did pros start targeting Goldens and Permit? Why do pros in the Brisbane river, after catching a massive haul of Threadies, post an “up yours” to recs on face book. Why did locals pros stop caring about the health of the fishery and just start worrying about the health of their bank balance? Money? An insatiable demand from Southern markets? Better transport allowing easier access to markets, both domestic and international? There is no one answer. The modern system allows it, in fact,almost encourages it. Commercial fishers moved from being “farmers” to being “exploiters of opportunity”, even though, many of them, would still rather be farmers. I take a view, as a person with a unique foot in both camps, that there is abetter way, and, it has to be a regulated “better way”. Self-determination and “codes of practice” just don’t work, any more than bag limits only working on thehonest rec fishos. Set some rules which allow pros to make a decent living,recs to enjoy what they do and fishing “tourism” to flourish. Maybe these 3 things are totally incompatible, but, deep down, I’m an optimist.

[SatNav]

What gets me Scott is that the netters have been there many many decades before you arrived in hervey bay, so whats changed from them netting back then to now?.

They stopped netting mackerel in hervey bay a long time ago so were's all the mackerel now there not turning up in moreton bay like they use too you would think that when you stop the netting there would be more.

1. This is not unique to Harvey Bay, Mackerel follow the bait fish, no bait fish, no Mackerel, bait are more sensitive to environmental changes especially in population growth areas, so ask why not of the Mackerel but why not of the bait fish.

2. Similar with prawns, trawlers were stopped years ago but the prawns have never come back, again what self respecting prawn wants to live in a chemical ridden sludge pond

[Lucky_Phill]

I suppose we should get one thing straight. The Yellow Zone is a no commercial fishing zone, end of story. To have a Red Cross hatched Yellow zone smacks of Nepotism or similar circumstance. IMO.

You are right Kev, I doubt we will ever have consensus from Tourism, Commercial and Recreational Fishers and we will never stamp out the Black Market ( unless Magistrates get fair dinkum ).

I do not know the answer and apparently nor does the Government.

The tourism industry is massive and can grow, supporting not only communities but the whole State. Recreational fishing shits on commercial fishing as far as economic benefit goes and Commercial fishing is absolutely necessary for a number of reasons.

Having said all that, I still fear for the fishery and the fact we do ###k all to help it. Call them farmers, but do they sow to reap the benefits ? NO. Having bag limits, size limits, seasonal closures etc is a band-aid approach to sustainable fisheries.

Weeding out non discriminating netting is a start. But what are actually doing to help the fishery ? Nothing , well very little.

Why is this so. We legislate when a fishery reaches a non sustainable level with bag limits, size limits. We are doing NOTHING to enhance the fishery, NOTHING to grow it, NOTHING to protect it.

Why did the Politicians go MIA on the green zone issues by not including estuaries, creeks, foreshores, mangroves and so much more ?

Why has bugger all been done in relation to fertilizer run off and dredging and indeed removal of large areas in Moreton Bay covered in seagrass ?

One of the most successful and proven methods of fishery re-building and sustainability is Artificial Reefs. Cost benefit analysis is proven to be a winner on all fronts.

Increasing human populations, increasing fishing pressure from both the commercial and recreational sectors are stressing our fishery to the max. and NOTHING is being done. :(

Green Zones and their ability to create the " spill over effect " have not been proven and in fact there had been good research to prove other wise.

Western Australia are getting on the artificial reef bandwagon and establishing a great fishery with economic benefit for all stakeholders, we here are in the dark ages and not looking forward. Just biding our time, making meaningless legislation and hoping for the best. NO GOOD ENOUGH.

so much more to add, time is against me.


cheers LP

[kc]

Except Phil a yellow zone (in a federal marine park) is NOT a no commercial zone. Commercial bait netting, with subsequent by-catch is allowed as is commercial mud crab fishing. A state based yellow zone has no real protection and should never have been called a yellow zone in the first place. Just another example of inept management by Department of Environment trying to become defacto fisheries managers. They have the reverse midas touch. Everything they touch turns to s$#t. You are right about not being "farmers" in that nothing is put back in, my analogy however was about farmers at least having to care for the land if they want to keep harvesting a crop. Small, locally based commercial fishers, or at least some of them, do take that approach but are often squeezed out by blow ins. The whole rec/pro argument has and will go on forever with the fishery the victim along the way. The straight "ban the nets" argument clearly has popular appeal, and, as a consequence, political appeal but I personally get sick of politics being about what is popular instead of what is right. Maybe why I am a "failed" politician. =)

[chris69]

What everyone has forgotten about is that we have white spot in moreton bay now because of the attitude of lets kick the trawlers out with out thinking of the effects of imports to fill the demand,this is the direct result of crusaders thinking there wright and not what might happen if we do.

[jackson4300]

Chris the imports would have been coming in regardless of how many trawlers were and are operating.
The white spot is the direct result of poor control in regards to quality of imports if that is how it arrived in the waters. There is no relation and none should be drawn between these two topics.

[Scott Mitchell]

TO CLARIFY what WILL BE EFFECTED by "Correcting" our Great Sandy Marine Park & debunk some of the propaganda from the commercial sector :-


REMOVING the "anomaly" that is the Great Sandy Designated Area ( Red Cross Hatching on our Yellow Zones ) WILL NOT EFFECT :-


* Trawler fishing - Which mostly ALL occurs outside of the Great Sandy Designated Area ( with exception a couple of beam trawl operators )


* Prawns – Otter Trawling ALL occurs outside of the Great Sandy Designated Area ( with exception a couple of beam trawl operators & some stripe nets in the Mary River )


* Scallops & bugs - Which ALL occurs outside of the Great Sandy Designated Area


* Spanner crabs – which are harvested outside of the Great Sandy Area


* Fish and prawns farmed commercially in Queensland


* Commercial Line Fishing IE: Mackerel , trout etc.


* The FCFA would support commercial line fishing in the Great Sandy Area by “long term local operators” on a Permit & quota basis.


* The FCFA supports ‘ Continued commercial crabbing in the Great Sandy Area by “long term local operators” on a Permit & quota basis .


IT WILL EFFECT & REMOVE Commercial Gill Netting !


The commercial sector will boast the current Great Sandy Designated Area also allows Recreational fishers to use three lines or rods per person with a combined total of six hooks when fishing in this area.


Recreational fishers in TRUE conservation park (Yellow) zones in the Moreton Bay Marine Park are able to use up to two hand-held rods or handlines per fisher, with no more than two hooks in total for each fisher. There are also six rivers and creeks in the State Great Barrier Reef Coast Marine Park Zoning Plan allow the use of two lines and hooks.


The Fraser Coast Fishing Alliance will be insisting that recreational anglers will be allowed up to two hand-held rods or handlines per fisher, with no more than two hooks in total for each fisher once the Great Sandy Marine Park is "corrected" and the Great Sandy Designated Area is REMOVED in-line with the current full term – 10 year review !

Sign the petition here - https://www.change.org/p/dr-steven-miles-stop-commercial-netting-in-the-great-sandy-marine-park

Thanks Scotto

[kc]

Scott, for what its worth. I would substitute the words "long term local operators", with "commercial fishers with a demonstrated and substantial history within the fishery" and specifically ban new entries into the fishery. You might also want to word in "In the event a commercial operator with a local permit wishes to sell his permit, first right of refusal, at market rate, is offered to the responsible government agency." A buy out, over time.

You need to leave open generational hand over of license from father to son (yes, or daughter for the SJW police) and also allow those who hold, what is ultimately a valuable asset, to be able to recoup the value of this asset when they retire but outlaw the leasing of licenses to other operators. This will be predicated by a true value being attached to a "buy out". No point saying a blokes license is worth $200K if he can lease it for $25 or $30K a year. Most pros don't have super. The ability to live off the lease return value of their license may be really important to them long term. To earn $30K in interest you need a bank deposit of $700K.

Also needs to be a point, maybe well into the future where, if the level of commercial activity has reduced to a point where local supply can not be met and the fishery is fine, that fisheries can sell off one (or more) of the cancelled licenses.

Your argument about how many rods/lines/hooks is just clouding the water. It should not matter how much gear a fisher has. His take is capped by bag limits. If he uses 1 rod or 5 he can still only take what he is allowed. Bit like being told to have a game of golf but only take 3 clubs. Is the purpose to reduce take, or lessen enjoyment?

Your efforts in pulling on this task are commendable but don't go down the "anti pro path". Sensible compromise and working to protect the rights and livelihoods of local commercial fishers will generally be supported but the straight out "ban the nets" will not, nor, IMO, should it be. Again, better outcomes by local focus, local seafood supply, ban the targeting or capture of specific species which have low commercial but high recreational value.

Other final issue is, as discussed previously, the politics of this, and what is right will not necessarily be what is politically expedient.

[chris69]

Chris the imports would have been coming in regardless of how many trawlers were and are operating.
The white spot is the direct result of poor control in regards to quality of imports if that is how it arrived in the waters. There is no relation and none should be drawn between these two topics.

No thats not how i see it Jackson take away the local fresh product and that puts a higher demand for imports to fill the local supply, every time these sorts of thinks are put into play it never goes the way everyone expects it too,just look at the zoneing in the hervey and moreton bay now.

[Scott Mitchell]

KC - we'll leave the finer details up to the commercial sector & FQ to finalise - the commercial operators we have spoken with would like to see regional zoning across the state as well.

Still amazes me that we have shared the details on this petition across ALL of the major Qld rec fishing forums , facebook pages and individuals with high profiles and we still only have 2300 odd signatures . Apathy across our sector is unbelievable - they all winge at the boat ramp and pub BUT ask them to spend a minute to support & protect their passion .......

Scotto

[kc]

Welcome to the world of fishing politics. I took a view "in the day" that one of the main reasons we go fishing is to get away from the usual pressures of modern life......politics included, and trying to get fishos to become politically motivated is a big ask. Can be done, was done to a degree, but it take an awful lot of time and effort. Really hard to get your average bloke to put his name to something he knows will upset someone else. Most people are fair minded and recreational fishing is often about much more than how many fish we catch. Get your wording "right" and you might get a lot more support. IMO.

[Scott Mitchell]

WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT NOW !

We will NEED more than 2500 signatures - Apathy across our sector is one of our major challenges !

Please sign THIS Petition and share with your friends & Contacts if you want to see Commercial NETTING removed from the following areas :-

* Baffle Creek & tributaries
* The Elliott River & tributaries
* The Burrum River & tributaries
* The Mary River & tributaries
* The Great Sandy Strait and Tin Can Bay Inlet

The Full Term Review of our Great Sandy Marine Park is currently in Phase One & we NEED a show of support to STOP Commercial Netting in the above areas by removing the "anomaly" that is the "Great Sandy Designated Area" - which DOES NOT EXIST in ANY other marine park by the 5th of June 2017 !

Sign Here - It takes less than a minute - https://www.change.org/p/dr-steven-miles-stop-commercial-netting-in-the-great-sandy-marine-park

Regards Scotto

[PROS]

have you been pushing this through facebook at all?

the reason I ask is that I haven't come across anything on fb about this.
online forums these days become mostly readers, fb has more active involvement

Isn't there any famous fishing character supporting this? like Paul Worsteling or others
If he alone pushes a single 20sec video on his fb with his wife wearing a nice top, you will get 10k signers within the day

I don't see the marketing behind your purpose

Max

[insidermb]

WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT NOW !

We will NEED more than 2500 signatures - Apathy across our sector is one of our major challenges !

Please sign THIS Petition and share with your friends & Contacts if you want to see Commercial NETTING removed from the following areas :-

* Baffle Creek & tributaries
* The Elliott River & tributaries
* The Burrum River & tributaries
* The Mary River & tributaries
* The Great Sandy Strait and Tin Can Bay Inlet

The Full Term Review of our Great Sandy Marine Park is currently in Phase One & we NEED a show of support to STOP Commercial Netting in the above areas by removing the "anomaly" that is the "Great Sandy Designated Area" - which DOES NOT EXIST in ANY other marine park by the 5th of June 2017 !

Sign Here - It takes less than a minute - https://www.change.org/p/dr-steven-miles-stop-commercial-netting-in-the-great-sandy-marine-park

Regards Scotto


I have a better idea ,why don't we sign a petition to get you out of your business or job or whatever you do .We should get some slimy M.P.to think it is a good idea to get some dirty votes by getting rid of your occupation by just stopping you right now & to offer you 1 or 2 years of your average wage as so called compensation. Of course you will have to pay tax on this compensation .If you have say $ 200,000 or $300,000 worth of gear that is just usefull for your occupation alone, sorry - no compensation - you will just have to dump it or give it away , as no one will want to buy it. That sounds like a great petition - Where do I sign.

[kc]

Guy has a point!

[GBC]

Plenty of locals would be happy to see one less blow in real estate agent in the bay.
Perhaps having a copy reader or editor who knows how to put together a proper sentence would be a solid start.
Then get rid of the sensationalist pics of dead dugongs and the manky ghost gill nets that no pro would be seen dead with - people see straight through that and it undermines your cause. Why would a pro leave a net behind? Think about it.
What was it last week? An adult bass migrated downstream in autumn, triggered by a rain event - one of the most natural things in the world - so ban the pros!
Before that it's agreeing with crazy dave calcarifer's slippery made up figures. He's just another pro with an agenda.
You blokes need to be seen to be serving a greater good and not be seen as a group who just wants a private fish pond and that's what it is starting to look like. But we've had this conversation before.

[ShaneC]

I have a better idea ,why don't we sign a petition to get you out of your business or job or whatever you do .We should get some slimy M.P.to think it is a good idea to get some dirty votes by getting rid of your occupation by just stopping you right now & to offer you 1 or 2 years of your average wage as so called compensation. Of course you will have to pay tax on this compensation .If you have say $ 200,000 or $300,000 worth of gear that is just usefull for your occupation alone, sorry - no compensation - you will just have to dump it or give it away , as no one will want to buy it. That sounds like a great petition - Where do I sign.

Quite possibly the best response to the claptrap from this guy I have seen yet. Well done Sir.

[Scott Mitchell]

Recreational fishing value on the Fraser Coast


Referencing the State Wide 2010 Recreational fishing survey - Over a third of all recreational fishers (in excess of 700,000 state wide) lived in the Brisbane region but the participation rate among local residents was highest in the Mackay and Wide Bay-Burnett (Fraser Coast) regions, where 28% and 26% of the population were recreational fishers, respectively.


Localised depletion is being experienced across a number of key important recreational fish species both locally across the Fraser Coast region and across the state. Catch rates for anglers on the Fraser Coast region alone, have dropped from 7.8 fish landed per person per trip in 1986 to 0.81 fish per person per trip in 2003. This is the most current research but concerns are that this decline continues much further today and is in need of further review. Reference: Moore N. 1986 Recreational fishing in Hervey Bay and Great Sandy Strait. QDPI Information series Murphy I. 2003. 2003 Creel Survey. A ‘Snapshot’ of Recreational Fishers and Their Catches in the Hervey Bay Region, Queensland, between January and May, 2003.


Visitor Expenditure generated through Recreational Fishing across the Fraser Coast equates to approximately $39 million per annum. It is important to note that this figure is based on visitors only, and it does not take into account the value generated by recreational fishing by keen fisherman who reside within the Fraser Coast - this figure would be significant.


The figure of $39 million is compiled by the International Visitor Survey (IVS) and the National Visitor Survey (NVS) which is collated by Tourism Research Australia. This data is then distributed to the State Tourism Organisations and then distributed to the regional tourism organisations such as Fraser Coast Tourism and Events. Through the Fraser Coast Destination Tourism Plan, it is estimated that if the Fraser Coast is to increase its share of the Queensland Recreational Fishing Market by 8% by the year 2020, the value of visitor expenditure generated purely through recreational fishing would equate to approximately $107 million per annum by the year 2020. Again this does not include local expenditure – purely visiting anglers.


The Fraser Coast contains more fish diversity than the entire Great Barrier Reef being a crossover zone between tropical and temperate waters. It is recognised as the most southern limit for Wild Barramundi on the East Coast of Australia. Reference:  Burnett Mary Regional Group for Natural Resource Management 2014. The Great Sandy Biosphere.


In 2009 the Great Sandy Region was awarded Biosphere Reserve status by UNESCO, the global organisation that also awards World Heritage Listings. This decision gives worldwide recognition to both the Fraser Coast and Cooloola Regions, and the Wide Bay Burnett Coastline, putting the Great Sandy Region in the same class as the Galapagos Islands, the Central Amazon, the Everglades and Uluru. The Great Sandy Region is also recognised as an important RAMSAR Site, a dugong protection area and major turtle ecosystem.

If "You" want to STOP Commercial NETTING in our Great Sandy Marine Park You can sign the petition @ https://www.change.org/p/dr-steven-miles-stop-commercial-netting-in-the-great-sandy-marine-park

Thanks Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

have you been pushing this through facebook at all?

the reason I ask is that I haven't come across anything on fb about this.
online forums these days become mostly readers, fb has more active involvement

Isn't there any famous fishing character supporting this? like Paul Worsteling or others
If he alone pushes a single 20sec video on his fb with his wife wearing a nice top, you will get 10k signers within the day

I don't see the marketing behind your purpose

Max

Yep and we also had a video shot with Steve Starling which you can view @ https://www.facebook.com/FraserCoastFishingAlliance/

Again its hard to believe we have 2750 on-line signatures ( over 2000 now in print locally as well ) with the reach we have with social media ....

Feel free to share it with ALL your friends and contracts :-)

Thanks Scotto

[Aussie123]

1986 through to 2003 seen a new era in boating for accessories like decent sounders, gps, 4 stroke engines allowing long range travel to new fishing grounds, quality fishing equipment and an economy where everyone could afford to buy a boat or upgrade their existing boat.
The amount of rec anglers quadrupled throughout that period of time so how much of this do you attribute to declining fish stocks in those years that you mention.
There is also habitat destruction and degradation from increasing populations along the Eastern Seaboard as well as industrialization and the pollutants that come with it.
Surely you cannot lay the blame squarely on commercial fishermen.
Another issue with the massive numbers of rec anglers is the massive numbers of shamateurs with many operating full time and making a substantial living off their black market fishing.
This wreaks of nothing but pure greed by a bunch of rec anglers and local business owners who want everything for themselves at the expense of every non fishing Australian who enjoys a feed of fresh seafood that everyone in the country ultimately owns.

[Scott Mitchell]

Another issue with the massive numbers of rec anglers is the massive numbers of shamateurs with many operating full time and making a substantial living off their black market fishing.
This wreaks of nothing but pure greed by a bunch of rec anglers and local business owners who want everything for themselves at the expense of every non fishing Australian who enjoys a feed of fresh seafood that everyone in the country ultimately owns.

Aussie - the Great Sandy Marine Park is THE ONLY marine park in the country that allows unrestricted numbers of commercial fishers to NET in what "should be" true YELLOW conservation zone areas !

This is not a debate about recreational vs. commercial fishing. It is about destructive apparatus [netting and trawling] that is being banned in sensitive areas around the nation and around the world.


The Fraser Coast Fishing Alliance Inc. is supportive of the continuation of commercial crabbing and commercial line fishing in the Great Sandy Marine Park, with certain conditions.


The FCFA would support commercial line fishing in the Great Sandy Area by “long term local operators” on a Permit & quota basis.


The FCFA supports ‘Continued commercial crabbing in the Great Sandy Area by “long term local operators” on a Permit & quota basis.


A conservation park (Yellow) zone is a marine resource protection zone generally orientated to tourism and recreational uses, but with some fishing and educational collecting allowed.



Its objectives are


The Conservation Park (Yellow) Zone allows for increased protection and conservation of areas of the Marine Park, while providing opportunities for reasonable use and enjoyment including limited extractive use. Most extractive activities are allowed in a Conservation Park (Yellow) Zone with additional restrictions for most fishing activities.


The commercial sector state the current Great Sandy Designated Area allows recreational fishers to use three lines or rods per person with a combined total of six hooks when fishing in this area.


Recreational fishers in TRUE conservation park (Yellow) zones in the Moreton Bay Marine Park are able to use up to two hand-held rods or handlines per fisher, with no more than two hooks in total for each fisher. There are also six rivers and creeks in the State Great Barrier Reef Coast Marine Park Zoning Plan allow the use of two lines and hooks.


The Fraser Coast Fishing Alliance insists that recreational anglers be allowed up to two hand-held rods or handlines per fisher, with no more than two hooks in total for each fisher in true Conservation Zones ( Yellow ) once the Great Sandy Marine Park is "corrected" and the Great Sandy Designated Area is REMOVED.



To Clarify What WILL be effected by "Correcting" our Great Sandy Marine Park & debunk some of the propaganda from the commercial sector :-


REMOVING the "anomaly" that is the Great Sandy Designated Area ( Red Cross Hatching on our Yellow Zones ) WILL NOT EFFECT :-


* Trawler fishing - Which mostly ALL occurs outside of the Great Sandy Designated Area ( with exception a couple of beam trawl operators )


* Prawns – Otter Trawling ALL occurs outside of the Great Sandy Designated Area ( with exception a couple of beam trawl operators & some stripe nets in the Mary River )


* Scallops & bugs - Which ALL occurs outside of the Great Sandy Designated Area


* Spanner crabs – which are harvested outside of the Great Sandy Area


* Fish and prawns farmed commercially in Queensland


* Commercial Line Fishing IE: Mackerel , trout etc.


* The FCFA would support commercial line fishing in the Great Sandy Area by “long term local operators” on a Permit & quota basis.


* The FCFA supports ‘ Continued commercial crabbing in the Great Sandy Area by “long term local operators” on a Permit & quota basis .


IT WILL EFFECT & REMOVE Commercial Gill Netting !


More FACTS can be found @ http://www.frasercoastfishingalliance.com.au/media/Commercial%20fishing%20myths%20in%20GSMP%20(3).pdf


Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

The numbers are building - keep the signatures coming - It takes less than a minute to sign & share with ALL your friends and contacts ....

Sign here - https://www.change.org/p/dr-steven-miles-stop-commercial-netting-in-the-great-sandy-marine-park

Thanks Scotto