Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

[goona]

Hi All,

Any advice welcomed. My diesel golf is getting a bit on 10 years old early next year and the tow car the Patrol is now 15 years old. We are thinking of trading the golf in first as it is starting to have a few issues and getting a dual cab to try it out towing the boat. The boat weighs 3.5T and I am a bit dubious about these so called 3.5t towing capacities stated on the dual cabs as the towing capacities. I also have a fairly steep driveway and with the Patrol it has to be in low range to get it up otherwise it is riding the clutch the whole way.

Things I am looking for.

Must be diesel
Must have 3.5t towing capacity
Economy is also important to me as I plan to go to Gladstone regularly in the new year
Good Warranty

I look forward to hearing about your dual cabs both good and bad reports would be great

Cheer Goona

[Dan5]

Whatever you get get it in an Auto........no more riding the clutch up the driveway...........FWIW I like the look of the Navara and the motor from the Colorado........

[scottar]

"Any advice welcomed" - get a Landcruiser. Other than that, the biggest automatic ute you are happy to shell out for. I traded my Navara STR on a 200 series diesel. The difference in towing comfort and the general "feel" when towing is like chalk and cheese and I am only towing about 2.2 T.
I also have to reverse uphill around a corner and over a gutter. My Navara and prior to that a Patrol would start and suffer from diff wind up due to the corner. Not locking in hubs was not an option with the Navara due to wheel spin as the front wheels met the gutter, the Patrols hubs were auto lockers. The cruiser as well as having more go and the auto is capable of being driven on the black top in low range with no ill effects and also performs this requirement in a superior fashion to the other two vehicles.

Regardless of your vehicle of choice, dependant on your tow ball down weight, a suspension upgrade is quite possibly going to be on the cards as well.

[goona]

"Any advice welcomed" - get a Landcruiser. Other than that, the biggest automatic ute you are happy to shell out for. I traded my Navara STR on a 200 series diesel. The difference in towing comfort and the general "feel" when towing is like chalk and cheese and I am only towing about 2.2 T.
I also have to reverse uphill around a corner and over a gutter. My Navara and prior to that a Patrol would start and suffer from diff wind up due to the corner. Not locking in hubs was not an option with the Navara due to wheel spin as the front wheels met the gutter, the Patrols hubs were auto lockers. The cruiser as well as having more go and the auto is capable of being driven on the black top in low range with no ill effects and also performs this requirement in a superior fashion to the other two vehicles.

Regardless of your vehicle of choice, dependant on your tow ball down weight, a suspension upgrade is quite possibly going to be on the cards as well.

Hi Scottar,

This is part the reason I am keeping the Patrol for now. I took the auto hubs off and replaced them with AVM manual hubs. Traction isn't a problem and have plenty of low down torque being the 4.2t patrol. I was thinking of doing the Cruiser but $85k is a bit much at this point in time. If I did do the Cruiser I would also go down the GVM upgrade prior to registering as it gives you quite a bit more weight. Tow ball down weight I assume would be 350kg as well.
I test drove the Colorado and was fairly impressed with it but it didn't feel as capable as the Patrol hence why I am nervous about shelling out for a dual cab that might not do it
Goona

[perko]

I agree with Scott. Get a cruiser. If not then a D Max or the new Hilux would be my choice.

[scottar]

If it was me I would look at the numbers - highest curb weight with the biggest power plant (haven't looked but probably the Ford or Mazda - which ever flavour takes your pick) and take one for a drive or better still see if you can find someone that has one who is willing to strap a reasonable load to it and go for a run. If you aren't happy with it, I couldn't see you being happier with a smaller lighter vehicle.

[Still_Dreamin]

There was a topic on this website called "so you think you can tow 3.5T" well worth a read. I have a 2013 manual dual cab Triton that is rated to 300kg ball weight and 3 tonne. What a load of shit!! the jayco van is 187kg ball weight. Put it on the Triton and the arse just about sits on the ground which we correct with load leveller. The van weighs 2.2t and any sort of incline and you are riding the clutch all the way. On one hill at set of lights I had to put in low range on the black top just to get over the hill where I pulled over and put it back into 2wd.
If I had more time and money I would take Mitsubishi to the ACCC for false advertising.
Next time I will be buying a Landrover Discovery or Landcruiser

[beerhunter]

You definitely need an auto if your towing with this new modern crap.

sent from the beerhunter

[goona]

Hi Still Dreamin, I am with you with regards to the Triton. I had one as a work ute and used to tow the 1.7T excavator behind it and it struggled. My boat dry it 2.76T so legally I could to it behind the Triton which is a joke as it would defiantly not tow it. I like the dual cab ute set up though and the triton wasn't to bad to drive but to small for my needs.
I did read the You think you can tow 3.5T and was very good. Definitely gets you thinking and makes me nervous as I am sure they will be policing it more and more as the years go on and if you have an accident you don't want to be over

[Reel Blue]

My brother in law has the mazda and it goes very well. It is way quicker than my new dmax. However, I really like the dmax and tow a cruisecraft 685 ht with it. Very economical and will tow at 100 in fifth gear on low inclines. Big hills slow it down. A friend uses a ranger to tow his 760 haines hunter which weighs 3.5 tonne empty and he said it tows it well and he came from a v8 diesel cruiser. A 200 series cruiser would be the best but yes very expensive to buy and run.

[hainsofast]

I agree with Scott. Get a cruiser. If not then a D Max or the new Hilux would be my choice.
Problem with the cruisers it Toyota tax, cost you $70K at least for the pov pack, they are nice but way overpriced

[Greg P]

Bit off topic sorry but I've gone from a PX series 1 Ranger to a new VX TTD 200 series recently when my lease went up. Ranger towed my boat very well but the LC of course does it all better. Expensive to buy - yes but you'd be surprised at the fuel. I tracked both with an app, the ranger over 3 years and the new girl since early October. Ranger averaged 10.33 l per 100km over its time with me (105,000 Klms). I've done 10,000 in the cruiser and it averages 11.8l per 100km. Same weekly runs, boat runs etc.

Not towing but on a trip from Brisbane to Sydney I had it average under 10l per 100km - pretty impressed. The trip computer is very accurate compared to the app which was always filled to the brim each time.

For dual cabs for me it would be the new series 2 Ranger or a Dmax. New Hilux is solid but no game changer but take it everyday over a collie or amarok.

I had a faultless run on the Ranger, great engine/auto transmission combo and got $35k as a trade which was higher than I expected.

Not or many real lemons in that segment these days though, just down to preference, price ad specs.

[Dan5]

I have a 200 Series also and yeah does everything that much better than the rest IMO but..................The question was Dualcab yeah?

[beerhunter]

Could do a dual cab conversion on a 200 series and eat Pal because you cant afford proper food [emoji1]

sent from the beerhunter

[gofishin]

...I am a bit dubious about these so called 3.5t towing capacities stated on the dual cabs as the towing capacities...

...Things I am looking for.

Must be diesel
Must have 3.5t towing capacity...Goona, if your loaded BMT is indeed up at the 3.5t mark then do the math very carefully. By that I mean your GCM, GVM and payload calcs, including any options.

The 3.5t rated 4cyl D/cabs were a 'claytons' 3.5t, and I doubt if anything has changed (although I haven't looked at the specs for ~2yrs). Add a canopy and a few bits to the truck and you can't have 3 adults in the truck and tow 3.5t legally.
Cheers
Brendon

[scottar]

Problem with the cruisers it Toyota tax, cost you $70K at least for the pov pack, they are nice but way overpriced

They are pricey but when your only real opposition in terms of a diesel tow tug is an import ute at 100K plus though they start to look a bit better.

[scottar]

Could do a dual cab conversion on a 200 series and eat Pal because you cant afford proper food [emoji1]

sent from the beerhunter

Haven't you seen how expensive Pal is these days. :o

[scottar]

I have a 200 Series also and yeah does everything that much better than the rest IMO but..................The question was Dualcab yeah?

Yes it was - with the subtext that the OP was dubious about some of the stated towing capabilities being practical - and rightly so IMO. He could look at an F-Truck or similar to comfortably tow 3.5T I guess but he did say "any advice welcomed".

[GBC]

Because you are on the limit for most brands you'll need a pencil and a calculator to work out that what you're being fed here isn't all that it appears. The 200 cruiser is notoriously light on in the towing department numbers if you get pulled over for a check.
GVM upgrades are worthless when towing 3500 k.g. because the GCM doesn't change - the ride might be better, but the figures are still the same.
A 200 has a GCM of 6800 k.g. Take away the trailer of 3500 leaves you 3300 k.g. to play with. Kerb weight is 2700 odd, leaves you 600 k.g. take away the 350 towbar weight leaves 245 k.g. for fuel, people, bullbars, batteries, fridge etc - not really viable.
The Ranger ends up with 300 k.g. to play with at 3500 k.g. - same basket really and no one is going to say it's a better tow vehicle than a 200. It's pretty good, but it's still nothing like the king - I've towed on capacity with both.
The dual cab cruiser has the same GCM as the 200, but is kerb weighted without air con, towbar, or tray, so without them you've got 1085 k.g. I'd guess you'd end up with somewhere around 500 k.g. left over depending on fitout?
A D4 discovery still has a very useable 670 k.g. payload at 3500 k.g.
Bottom line, there aren't a whole lot of viable options to tow at max on the Australian market, and even less if you restrict to dual cabs only. Landrover has the LEGAL wood on them all, and always has.

[gofishin]

...
The 200 cruiser...GVM upgrades are worthless when towing 3500 k.g. because the GCM doesn't change - the ride might be better, but the figures are still the same.
A 200 has a GCM of 6800 k.g....

GBC, you are 100% incorrect!

The LC200 does not have a GCM. Toyota do not specify one, therefore 'NO ONE can'. This is Law and specified in ADR's. This is also why a GVM upgrade works with the LC200.

[GBC]

http://www.statewide4x4.com.au/faq.aspx

Then the people doing the GVM upgrades are incorrect?

Does Increasing My GVM Also Increase My GCM Or My Towing Capacity?

No it does not. Unfortunately you cannot increase the overall GCM or the maximum towing capacity over the manufacturers specifications. By increasing the GVM of your vehicle it allows you to be smarter in the way you set up your vehicle and caravan/trailer.
If you are towing up to the maximum towing capacity at all times then a GVM Upgrade may not suit your needs, however this is not a very common scenario. If you tow less than your maximum towing capacity then it is very likely that you can benefit from having a GVM Upgrade.
FOR EXAMPLE:
200 Series Landcruiser:


GVM 3300kg
Max Towing Capacity: 3500kg
GCM: 6800kg

If you were towing a 2800kg caravan with a ball weight of approx 280kg and your vehicle was loaded up to the maximum GVM of 3300kg (inc your ball weight)
GVM 3300kg + Caravan 2800kg = 6,100kg
As you can see you still have another 700kg before you reach the manufacturers maximum GCM of 6800kg. By having a GVM Upgrade fitted and increasing the GVM of the vehicle from 3300kg to 3800kg you can make use of another 500kg on the vehicle while still remaing compliant and roadworthy, also ensuring that you are covered by insurance should you have an accident.

GCM has always been GVM plus tow capacity as stated by the Manufacturer which Toyota has always given. Suspension companies could never assume to increase GCM.


EDIT: See the link below

http://www.toyota.com.au/home?WT.ac=LC200SpecificationsPDF

Toyota website states a GCM of 6850 k.g. under 'weight's and capacities' in the specification section of the 200

Don't go killing anyone with your 100% incorrect car - you'll have a hard time arguing it with the coroner.

[gofishin]

Well that is only very new, obviously just released with the new 200 update GBC. And yes, it is a game changer and means that a GVM upgrade does not increase towing capacity like it used to - so my apologies., you are correct that it now has a GCM.

The GCM was not in place when I bought my 200 in September 2013, and being a pedantic SOB engineer I researched the hell out of it, read the legislation and the relevant standards and found written evidence that I could do a GVM upgrade and still tow 3500. In the end I didn't get the upgrade anyway.

If someone has the new model 200 please confirm if the compliance plate or the Manual has this GCM on/in them.

[PixieAU]

Is that correct that you subtract the trailer weight as well as the towball weight?

Seems to be double counting.

[scottar]

GVM upgrade is still worth doing (assuming you need to tow at GCM) which if calculated by the addition of towing capacity and GVM is impossible to reach (if applying the 10% rule of thumb) on any vehicle. What it does mean is that any upgrade over 350Kg is not gaining anything in respect to towing.

[GBC]

It might just be the way it was written, but please explain? I'm sure it makes sense.

[gofishin]

GVM upgrade is still worth doing (assuming you need to tow at GCM) which if calculated by the addition of towing capacity and GVM is impossible to reach (if applying the 10% rule of thumb) on any vehicle. What it does mean is that any upgrade over 350Kg is not gaining anything in respect to towing.

Now that is 100% correct Scott. :)

With the new LC 200 (3350 GVM, 6850 GCM, 3500kg tow capacity) you still gain advantage with a 350kg GVM upgrade if you have 350kg towball mass. However if your 3.5t rig has no weight on the ball (yes, why would you), you gain no advantage with an upgrade.

Lovells won't be happy with Toyota that's for sure, their +500 upgrade is now not so worthwhile for the towing folk.

[scottar]

Is that correct that you subtract the trailer weight as well as the towball weight?

Seems to be double counting.

The way this works -

GCM = 6800Kg
Trailer maximum free standing weight (not on vehicle) is 3500 Kg
GVM - total allowable weight of the car including any towball weight -3300

The rule of thumb for towing is that 10% of the loads weight is a good weight to have applied to the towball. If and when the scalies pull you up and weigh you, they weigh with the trailer connected so the weight on the towball will be counted as part of the GVM. This means that without a GVM upgrade, if you are towing 3.5 T and the 10% rule of thumb is relevant to your setup, the most you can pack the car to (prior to trailer attachment) is 2950 Kg making it physically impossible to legally reach the GCM (unless by some freak of nature you manage to get a trailer that tows ok with zero Kg on the towbar..

This is where the GVM upgrade comes in. With a GVM upgrade of 350 Kg, you can load the car to the full 3300 kgs, then add the 350 Kgs towball weight of your 3.5 T trailer, reaching 6800 GCM without exceeding your new GVM.

[gofishin]

...The Ranger ends up with 300 k.g. to play with at 3500 k.g....It might be because it's Friday evening, but those numbers don't seem to add up GBC.

Seeing as Tojo slipped in a spec change I just looked at the new Ranger specs. Seems that kerb weights have increased from what I could see. Will have to look on the 'puter though, too bloody hard on the phone.

However, has anyone checked the fine print change to 'required' towball mass? That could be a game changer!

[GBC]

The way this works -

GCM = 6800Kg
Trailer maximum free standing weight (not on vehicle) is 3500 Kg
GVM - total allowable weight of the car including any towball weight -3300

The rule of thumb for towing is that 10% of the loads weight is a good weight to have applied to the towball. If and when the scalies pull you up and weigh you, they weigh with the trailer connected so the weight on the towball will be counted as part of the GVM. This means that without a GVM upgrade, if you are towing 3.5 T and the 10% rule of thumb is relevant to your setup, the most you can pack the car to (prior to trailer attachment) is 2950 Kg making it physically impossible to legally reach the GCM (unless by some freak of nature you manage to get a trailer that tows ok with zero Kg on the towbar..

This is where the GVM upgrade comes in. With a GVM upgrade of 350 Kg, you can load the car to the full 3300 kgs, then add the 350 Kgs towball weight of your 3.5 T trailer, reaching 6800 GCM without exceeding your new GVM.

I think you'll find that when towing, any amount more than the vehicles original gvm you decide to add - be it ball weight or beer, will decrease your tow capacity by the same amount to maintain a gcm of 6800.
If towing less than 3500 kg, you can make good use of the extras a gvm upgrade provides however.
See the manufacturers blurb above.


Ranger numbers were from a web site. Happy to stand corrected.

Edit:
from west coast suspensions faq's


Q. Does a GVM upgrade also increase the Gross Combined Mass (GCM)?
A When a vehicle is also towing a trailer, the GVM is the total mass of the motor vehicle’s wheels on the ground, while the GCM (Gross Combination Mass) is the total mass of the motor vehicle plus trailer. Increasing the GVM does not increase the GCM. In fact if the vehicle is fully loaded to the new increased GVM then the actual towing capacity would be decreased by the amount of the GVM increase. However if the vehicle is only loaded to its original GVM then the GCM is not affected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scottar]

I think you'll find that when towing, any amount more than the vehicles original gvm you decide to add - be it ball weight or beer, will decrease your tow capacity by the same amount to maintain a gcm of 6800.
If towing less than 3500 kg, you can make good use of the extras a gvm upgrade provides however.
See the manufacturers blurb above.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The point is that towing 3.5 T and applying the 10% rule of thumb it is impossible to ever reach GCM without exceeding GVM by 350Kg - the towball weight. With a GVM Upgrade, GCM can actually be reached ( At this point the GVM will be 3650Kg - 3300 of its own weight, 350 towball weight ) Total weights - 3300 + 3500 = 6800

Without the upgrade the maximums will be 2950 of its own, 350 towball (these two add up to maximum allowable GVM) - total weights - 2950 + 3500 = 6450.

[gofishin]

...from west coast suspensions faq's

Q. Does a GVM upgrade also increase the Gross Combined Mass (GCM)?

A. ... Increasing the GVM does not increase the GCM... Like many blurbs on the net, this answer is sometimes misleading. Yes, if a GCM has been specified a GVM upgrade won't change the GCM (unless you find a Certifier happy to do both). But the 'whole answer' was obviously written by someone, or copied from someone else's blurb, who didn't understand the ADR's and relevant legislation.

Whether a GVM upgrade helps you reach the total maximum tow capacity, and/or the vehicle GVM while towing depends ENTIRELY on what GCM has been specified by the 'manufacturer'. Some add GVM and ATM/max towing capacity (which means there is leeway for GVM upgrades), others specify a limiting GCM (i.e. Most current dual cabs), others in between.

The transfer of towball mass to the towing vehicle in load calculations is the bit that confuses a lot.

Best to think of the GCM as the 'sum of the combined axle loads' of the combination vehicle, ie boat hitched on to car.

Assuming a 3.5t trailer with 10% towball mass, 350kg is borne by the towing vehicle when hitched up. Trailer total axle mass is 3150kg, towing vehicle's axles/GVM now accommodate the 350kg, hence this must be included in vehicle payload calcs/GVM calcs.

Cheers

[Darren J]

I did a lot of research into this about 6 months or so ago.... A few things I can confirm from the information I gained, which I believe I verified as being accurate at the time.

Toyota did not specify a GCM for 200 series Land Cruisers (as recently as about 3 months or so ago). Clearly now they do. I verified this at the time both from spending close to an hour with a Toyota dealer and their technical guys on the phone. They also placed a call to ARB at the time to verify if there were any restrictions on GCM (they agreed the Cruisers did not have one). Arb commented on the GVM upgrades, and its effect to tow capacities with regard to a Cruiser. They also reconfirmed (as we know) that where a GCM is specified, a GVM upgrade cannot increase the GCM. To their knowledge, their was no legal way to effect a GCM change.
All advice received that day was consistent with all else that I had researched from many reputable sources. At that point Cruisers had no GCM set by the manufacturer. Thus they could be loaded to the GVM as well as be at max tow capacity. It would be interesting to ponder whether the specs for a Cruiser bought say 1 year ago, now magically has a GCM imposed on it that did not exist at the time of purchase??? I would be interested to know if, contrary to Toyotas literature, do Cruisers actually have a GCM stamped on their compliance plates?

The down side to a "stock" cruiser was GVM. Put 350kg of tow ball load and you were left with (give or take) another 200kg of payload only in the vehicle. Not much at all.... Thus the GVM upgrades looked necessary to legally tow anything of capacity, due to the obvious 350kg of tow ball load immediately on the vehicle. ARB's exact words to me, "most cursers driving round with a bit of gear bolted to them and 4 good sized passengers are illegal every day of the week, forget about what they might want to tow on top of that..."

This is not to say they are not a capable tow vehicle, they just obviously also have some issues hitting the numbers like all other vehicles when at the 3.5t tow limit.

I agree with Gofishin's calc above but, while a GVM upgrade cannot increase GCM, it could help keep the GVM legal while the overall package is at the max for GCM.

I believe the discoveries have no GCM from my last research, however like a Cruiser, they have a pretty dismal payload after you factor 350kg on the tow ball also, with not a lot of kg left for passengers or gear. Any claims that they blitz the opposition on paper to me is not correct, as they fail badly for GVM.
At least the utes all have high overall GVM payloads, thus deal with the tow ball download on paper. But the GCM gets them back the other way and limits the entire package still.

The Cruiser, being considered the king, now surprisingly is limited by a lowish stock GVM and also has the overall limiting factor of GCM to deal with, so their is now not much of a fix option for the low payload. (although the GCM is not as retractive as they are n the dual cabs).

I also notice that Toyota still have no GCM listed for a 70 series, consistent with what I found a number of months ago. Based on that a 70 series ute actually has the best payload while towing at 3.5t, by a long wary compared to all others.
A single cab 70 series has a payload of 885kg remaining, AFTER it also takes 350kg of tow ball download from your trailer. ie. 3.5t boat on back properly set up with nearly 900kg of other great in and on the vehicle.....
Pity they are not what we want to be driving the other 98% of the time...

[gofishin]

Thanks Darren J, good recent info.


...It would be interesting to ponder whether the specs for a Cruiser bought say 1 year ago, now magically has a GCM imposed on it that did not exist at the time of purchase???...No, any changes to specifications cannot be applied retrospectively to previous models, regardless of what spec and what make/model.


...I would be interested to know if, contrary to Toyotas literature, do Cruisers actually have a GCM stamped on their compliance plates?
...Yes me too Darren, hence my previous question

...If someone has the new model 200 please confirm if the compliance plate or the Manual has this GCM on/in them.I wondered if this new spec was an 'Internet only spec' - some marketing persons overzealous attempt at 'complying' with the pack, and hence trying to stop the million questions that must be asked about the LC GCM... or a 'real' spec issued by the Toyota Ausralia's Technical Department, and hence part of the new model's 'compliance'?

Cheers
Brendon

[goona]

Excellent write up Darren. Thanks. Didn't consider the 70 series. Might have a look at them as well

[goona]

Excellent write up Darren. Thanks. Didn't consider the 70 series. Might have a look at them as well

Wow good GVM but way to rich for my blood. Back to the smaller dual cabs I guess

[GBC]

Still weighed without a tray, a towar or aircon so not as good as they originally seem. Still better than most though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[goona]

Found this pretty comprehensive test on the net

http://www.motoring.com.au/4WD-dual-cab-ute-2015-comparison-Towing-54511

Now I really don't know which way t go!!!!

[gofishin]

Goona, are you looking at an auto or manual, or just the best tow truck/best numbers? Auto will be better for your steep driveway.
Cheers
Brendon

[GBC]

Just had a look at the 130 defender dual cab.
gvm 3500, tow 3500
1.6t payload
I know, and I agree about what they are and what their shortcomings are, but those are some pretty impressive numbers.
They only talk 250 k.g. ball weight with a reduced gvm though so it will come back to the field a bit.

[goona]

Goona, are you looking at an auto or manual, or just the best tow truck/best numbers? Auto will be better for your steep driveway.
Cheers
Brendon

I am easy Brendon, Probably Auto would be best with the steep driveway. Was originally going for the Colorado Auto seems to have most power and torque. Have just read the review from the top 8 4wd Dual cab utes on 4x4 Aust mag an now that has thrown me as they rated the Colorado 8th out of 8? I have driven one and didn't think it was to bad so I am interested in the others now. They must be awesome. I like the deal Holden has with 5 year warranty and there free servicing for 3 years but it looks like that may have changed now. Still something to talk about if I do go down that path

[goona]

Just had a look at the 130 defender dual cab.
gvm 3500, tow 3500
1.6t payload
I know, and I agree about what they are and what their shortcomings are, but those are some pretty impressive numbers.
They only talk 250 k.g. ball weight with a reduced gvm though so it will come back to the field a bit.

They do look the goods but 95% f the time will be city driving not towing so I am looking for comfort as well. Must be getting old hey

[GBC]

I totally understand that, and agree.

[beerhunter]

I wouldn't base my decision on a possibly biased review from people you don't know and might not be able to trust.

[Darren J]

I just looked at the BT50's yesterday as an alternative to a Ranger.
The (ex Toyota) Salesman there advised the gearboxes on the BT50 is not the same as the Ranger. He also advised that the Rangers were notorious for having transmission issues, particularly if towing heavier loads (3t+) in hot conditions (30°+). His advice only, not necessarily fact.
A quick search on line seems to suggest this might be the case, but I find little in relation to the BT50. However nearly every review or test I have seen suggests the BT50 driveline is identical to Rangers??

If any owners of either have any comments in relation to this, that would be appreciated.

I also note a BT50 is about 140-150kg lighter than a ranger (depending on spec) which gives them a working payload when towing to capacity of about 382kg for top of the line model (GT) or 478kg for the lower spec XT model. Those numbers are getting more workable than a Ranger.
Goona,
If your seriously looking, I also note that Mazda has about 10% or so discount against all to the BT dual cab range (2015 plate) at present. Although I do not believe they have as much discount for ABMN holders vs the others if that effects you. They all seem keen to move them at the moment.

[scottar]

Which is great - if you can live with the silly grin;D

Having just had a quick look at the numbers - the Ford / Mazda wins out - once it has had a GVM upgrade - for my money. Simply looking at the difference between kerb weights and the remainder of the GCM once the 3500 for the trailer is removed, the Ford Mazda has the highest payload available over the Collie and Dmax by a few hundred kilo. The downside with the Ford/Mazda is by running at maximum weight it is the only one to get pushed over its allowable GVM at full weight allowance once you add the towball weight but the upgrade will sort that. Couple this with equal highest torque figures in the class but a torque delivery that comes in at less RPM (bigger cubes) gives it the go on my account. Like I said though, if you can get a ride in one with a load on I would because "it tows it well mate" means different things to different people

[gofishin]

Scotty, from a quick scan over specs and comparing to calcs I did 2 yrs ago, no changes to GVM /GCM for the Ford, but kerb weight has increased - effectively reducing payload capacity even further. A GVM upgrade won't help them (when towing 3.5) unless you can also upgrade GCM as the GCM is the limiting factor when towing, not GVM.

It seems (from a quick look), only 3.5t tow dual cab that has GVM problems when towing is the Navara. With 300kg on the ball (which seems to be max - need someone to check in their manual), the Navara has a huge 410kg GVM derating!! Just about need to drive it by remote control when towing 3.5t! ie from another car.

I will crunch some numbers properly when I get a chance.

Darren, Ford used to be the only ute that came std with a towbar - one reason for additional kerb weight in specs.
Cheers
Brendon

[Darren J]

Which is great - if you can live with the silly grin;D

Having just had a quick look at the numbers - the Ford / Mazda wins out - once it has had a GVM upgrade - for my money. Simply looking at the difference between kerb weights and the remainder of the GCM once the 3500 for the trailer is removed, the Ford Mazda has the highest payload available over the Collie and Dmax by a few hundred kilo. The downside with the Ford/Mazda is by running at maximum weight it is the only one to get pushed over its allowable GVM at full weight allowance once you add the towball weight but the upgrade will sort that. Couple this with equal highest torque figures in the class but a torque delivery that comes in at less RPM (bigger cubes) gives it the go on my account. Like I said though, if you can get a ride in one with a load on I would because "it tows it well mate" means different things to different people

While I agree with your conclusion as to the "pick of the bunch", I think you have made an error re the best payload when towing at 3.5t. Note the GVM upgrade does not help the Ford/Mazda payload when towing 3.5t. They are ALWAYS limited by the GCM first. Note ranger is the worst of the dual cabs due to it having the highest kerb weight, which leaves buggar all payload when GCM is accounted for (6000kg GCM -(3500kg trailer total) - (2229 kerb weight (XLT, Widtrak is worse) ) = 271kg max payload on/in the vehicle). Tow ball load does not have a lot of effect in this calculation as vehicle GVM is no where near overloaded, so the GVM upgrades do no help here, as they would on a LandCruiser.

Below are revised numbers I calculated from the other 3.5t towing thread, updated based on current models and GCM numbers being now published for 200 series Landcruisers. I have added in a BT50 and SR5 Hilux, and adjusted the comments on the Landcruiser given they now identify a GCM.

All payloads below need to account for all additional accessories (bulbar, lights, wracks, canopies, wheels etc), fuel, passengers, gear etc as may be added into the vehicle. These numbers all assume you are towing a full 3500kg with 350kg on the tow ball. Obviosuly as the tow weight and/or tow ball load reduces, your payloads will improve. and this becomes much less of an issue. Up to say 3.0t, most of these payload compliance issues pretty much go away for any of the vehicles.

79 series single cab 935kg (plus any GVM upgrades if done) (noting this payload excludes tray I believe, so these must be allowed immediately).
79 series dual cab 785kg (plus any GVM upgrades if done) (noting this payload excludes tray I believe, so these must be allowed immediately).
LC200 Land Cruiser 280-410kg depending on model (based on tow ball download of 350kg, plus any GVM upgrades if done will add back to the payload up to 350kg more i.e. Landcruiser with 350kg GVM upgrade will get at best back to 630-760 payload to the vehicle)
Dmax 510kg (vehicle is lightest, thus has best pay load remaining before hitting its GCM).
NP300 Navara 489kg (new Nav is fairly light) - but needs to be then down rate the GVM for tow ball down load so becomes much lower.
New Patrol 395-485kg depending on model (plus any GVM upgrades if done)
Colorado 425kg
BT50 (XT/XTR/GT in auto) 464/395/382kg
Discovery 382kg (based on tow ball download of 350kg and having no listed GCM) plus any GVM upgrade.
Ranger (XLS/XLT/Wildtrak auto) 370/271/229kg
New Toyota Hilux SR5 (manual) 275kg (these have a GCM of 5850 although Toyota does not publish this on their specifications, dealer had to confirm. As the GCM is 150kg lower than most other D/C utes it ultimately give pretty poor overall payload when towing to 3.5t)

This list is generally in order based on best to worst payload... Note if the LC200 Landcruiser gets no GVM upgrade, it drops way down the list to about third last..... This reenforces that clearly there is more to the ability of a the tow vehicle than just the paper calculations. The calculation to me, is more of an insurance exercise for peace of mind.

Interestingly, the lighter dual cab utes (Dmax/Navara NP300) have the best payloads remaining, but are also the ones that appear to be the least capable of genuinely dealing with the 3.5t out back (if you agree with most reviews and opinions out there).

[Darren J]

Darren, Ford used to be the only ute that came std with a towbar - one reason for additional kerb weight in specs.
Cheers
Brendon

Good point!. That swings I guess 20kg or so? back in their favour.

Scary part for me, I am looking for options knowing I will be right on 3.5t. Its quite doable but finding a reasonable solution with ability to carry some load is the issue....
I know first hand that a properly set up trailer, with properly set up vehicle, will tow these loads, irrespective of what it says on paper. Its just getting that combination with clear insurance compliance that is proving the issue.

[Darren J]

Which is great - if you can live with the silly grin;D



True... But the new model is growing on me more. I disliked it originally so much that I never even considered/referred to them....just relied (and assumed) the ranger was equivalent in all regards other than styling.

[scottar]

Numbers I found had the GCM of the Ford at 6550Kg Darren which is the discrepancy - http://www.caradvice.com.au/compare-specs/s5a15a-holden-colorado/tdh15h-ford-ranger/ - can't vouch for the accuracy - maybe they have it wrong or know something we don't. Maybe you can't believe everything you read off the internet:o If it is indeed a 6000Kg GCM that changes things

[Darren J]

you can't believe everything you read off the internet:o If it is indeed a 6000Kg GCM that changes things

Too true re what you read. I am 100% sure on the 6000 GCM for the current Rangers with the 3.5t tow capacities. Just re-read it form their website now. Identical GCM on the BT 50 (and I think about the same from memory on Colorado, NP300 Nav etc)

Just checked that link... they refer to 'Gross Vehicle Weight" which really is an imaginary term in the scheme of things. Unlike GVM or GCM which is meaningful, their description appears some invention of the author that means.... Nothing!.
Love the internet.

[bugman]

Goona - how much do you want to spend?
A mate of mine just bought an 06 Dodge Ram out of SA in the early $30k.
He's spent another $5k on it to fix, replace, modernise a lot of things and for under $40k has a BIG dual cab ute that tows everything with a motor and gearbox that will do another 200,000km.
I have an 09 Dodge Ram and it's my daily driver - I'd buy another in a flash.
Just thinking outside the box for you.
Brett

[scottar]

Just seems a strange figure to come up with. The other "Gross Vehicle weight" ratings all seemed to align with GCM specs. Personally wondering if there might not be a press release come 2016 to combat the new Luxxy. Nothing would surprise me in the current game of "mines bigger than yours". Interesting when you read the 2016 review from the same people the "Gross Vehicle Weight" is stated as not provided - have they inadvertently let the cat out of the bag perhaps ( Ford would want to keep info like this on the down low until stocks at the old rating were gone). Who knows - watch this space perhaps.

[goona]

Numbers I found had the GCM of the Ford at 6550Kg Darren which is the discrepancy - http://www.caradvice.com.au/compare-specs/s5a15a-holden-colorado/tdh15h-ford-ranger/ - can't vouch for the accuracy - maybe they have it wrong or know something we don't. Maybe you can't believe everything you read off the internet:o If it is indeed a 6000Kg GCM that changes things

Just looked a the link and I am sure it is refereeing to GCM but it actually says GVM? Weird. I think it may be wrong but if it isn't then I would be the best by far. Compared it to the Collorado due to the Collie being far superior in acceleration on the 4 x 4 Aust mag also topping the Ranger on torque but and here's the but. Peak power comes on way sooner with the ranger as does the torque 1500rpm as apposed to 2000rpm.

Good write up again Darren and definitely food for thought. It amazes me how a lighter vehicle can tow better (theoretically) than a heavier vehicle. Be like dropping the boat behind the Golf LOL

Still undecided. I wish I could gave one of each hook the boat up an go for a spin with each. Would certainly sort it out.

[Darren J]

Still undecided. I wish I could gave one of each hook the boat up an go for a spin with each. Would certainly sort it out.

I have towed 2t (not a boat) out to Emerald and back on a current model Ranger Wildtrack. I thought my D40 4cyl Navara towed and sat better overall in comparison, but it has upgraded suspension to suit towing, power chip (giving more grunt than ranger) etc. The Ranger still felt good. Can't comment on the rest except an older D40 navara I had (stock suspension, 4cyl 127kw diesel) and I know it would not be anywhere near the modified Navara or Ranger for towing ability... it would have been "uneasy" and not overly capable past about 2.5t in my view without modifications being made.

These comments all refer to 100k/hr type stuff, not a close trip to the local ramp in 60 zones.

See if any dealers will hook up their demo vehicle to your boat to see? Surely there must be a demo with a brake controller fitted? Or ask for them to fit one to a demo, if you like it you buy it??

How heavy is your boat?

[goona]

Right I think I have found it but from what I Gather they don't tow 3500kg yet!

The Nssan Navara 170kW/550Nm 3-litre V6 turbo-diesel is and impressive power plant but only tows 3000kg. If these were uprated to tow 3500kg and had the same as the NP300 Navara 489kg that would be the go.

[Darren J]

Right I think I have found it but from what I Gather they don't tow 3500kg yet!

The Nssan Navara 170kW/550Nm 3-litre V6 turbo-diesel is and impressive power plant but only tows 3000kg. If these were uprated to tow 3500kg and had the same as the NP300 Navara 489kg that would be the go.

The D40's may not be good at some things, but I still think they made a good tow platform. My D40 with chip is around the same (on paper) torque and power of the V6 D40. 168Kw and 540Nm. As stated above, with correct suspension it proves to be a very good tow vehicle. It drags a 3t cat to 1770 with no grief. It will be getting sold in the near future but as I need to go to 3.5t.

Unfortunately I waited for the new Navara NP300 for about a year, only to find while they went to 3.5t, they went down in engine size, shorter wheelbase, and the coil rear suspension is considered way too soft for towing anything much without upgrades. All moved away from where I think it was best as a tow vehicle. I would have consider it with a suspension upgrade and chip, if they didn't shorten the wheelbase. The suspension packages are still fairly new/unknown/untested also at present, but I am sure that could be overcome easily enough.
Out of interest the D40 have about the longest wheelbase out there (3200) about equal to the current Rangers/BT50 (3220). They were going very well priced not too long ago, but I am not sure there are any left about now. Also still limited to 3t.

[goona]

More searching on the net. Pity they didn't bring these over here in the Titan variant but will probably be pricy

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/cummins-pursuing-diesel-power-for-nissan-patrol-20150112-12mstl.html

[gofishin]

...NP300 Navara 489kg (new Nav is fairly light) ....I see that you have used the kerb weight for the ST manual Darren, however the 489kg is not correct. You forgot to cross reference to the restricted GVM when 300kg is on the ball. Specs here
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/20/9be74d65f2769f84aedf92f5ecebfba3.jpg

The limiting factor then becomes the 'derated' GVM, not the GCM.

At 300kg ball load, GVM is derated by 410kg, so is now 2500.

Been to an Xmas party, so beers might be affecting me but pretty sure your 489kg should have been 279kg.

Available payload getting pretty skinny, as the towbar needs to come off this. If you want a bullbar, lights and canopy... better get the missus or decky a bicycle... :)
Cheers
Brendon

[Darren J]

I see that you have used the kerb weight for the ST manual

At 300kg ball load, GVM is derated by 410kg, so is now 2500.

Brendon
Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes I was looking at ST manuals... not as good with the STX auto, which get heavier again. It as a while ago I worked out most of those numbers.
And yes, also not as good with the derated GVM, which you correctly point out. I guess they either need a GVM upgrade to counter this...
I also never did detailed calc on max axle ratings, but I am sure they would have to be getting close as well.

Maybe I need to re-adjust those numbers again in the post above. I have dismissed the Navara's completely in any case.
I am unsure if there is a de-rating for the Dmax/Colorado, but it would pay to check.
I have not seen it mentioned for the Ranger or BT50.

[gofishin]

In ~July 2013 when I last reviewed all D/cab specs, only the Navara had a GVM derating. (even my 2006 D40 was derated by increased towball mass).

Not sure about any of the current models, might pay to check.

[Greg P]

I just looked at the BT50's yesterday as an alternative to a Ranger.
The (ex Toyota) Salesman there advised the gearboxes on the BT50 is not the same as the Ranger. He also advised that the Rangers were notorious for having transmission issues, particularly if towing heavier loads (3t+) in hot conditions (30°+). His advice only, not necessarily fact.
A quick search on line seems to suggest this might be the case, but I find little in relation to the BT50. However nearly every review or test I have seen suggests the BT50 driveline is identical to Rangers??

If any owners of either have any comments in relation to this, that would be appreciated.

Auto in the BT50 is 100% the same as Ranger. My neighbour owns a BT and last year I assisted him upgrading the transmission pan to a higher capacity version he purchased from US as he wasn't happy with the "sealed for life)" spiel they both advise for the box. The auto is made Nader license from ZF by Ford and designated the 6R80F for four wheel drive units and is used in the F150 and other models globally. Same box is used by the Mustang as well (6R80) in 2wd form.

I ran a an a scanguage on my previous PX S1 Ranger to monitor AT temps and it never alarmed me or went into limp mode etc. Like all autos you need to understand the S mode shift pattern change and t/c lock up to make sure you use them correctly. Plenty of videos on YouTube on the box. It is amazing to read how many people with LC200 don't understand this either (especially the torque converter lock up pattern in S mode)

Worse thing for them is to not change the oil at 80-10(0 thou as particles can effect the solonoid and lead set on early version transmissions. Other than that I have only seen some torque converter drive plate issues on a few Ranger forums I am on.

[Darren J]

Auto in the BT50 is 100% the same as Ranger. Like all autos you need to understand the S mode shift pattern change and t/c lock up to make sure you use them correctly.


Thanks Greg. I was dubious about a few things that sales rep claimed.
Regarding the comment above, could you elaborate. I have only ever owned manuals my entire life.

Cheers.

[GBC]

If you are keen on the ranger/bt, my Px auto has brake controller etc. if you need to strap the boat to it for a run we could make it happen. Not trying to sell you on them, just understand how difficult it is to get experience when looking.

Edit: Payload could be compromised today - Dan Murphys at the airport have xxxx gold stubbies on for $29 a box!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[goona]

[QUOTE=GBC;1605598]If you are keen on the ranger/bt, my Px auto has brake controller etc. if you need to strap the boat to it for a run we could make it happen. Not trying to sell you on them, just understand how difficult it is to get experience when looking.

Edit: Payload could be compromised today - Dan Murphys at the airport have xxxx gold stubbies on for $29 a box!

Gday GBC I would be real happy to meet with you and put the tub behind your rig. Be happy to buy you a carton as well to see how it goes. Last thing I want to do I shell out $40k + on something that doesn't do the job. If the dual cabs don't do it I will keep the Patrol and get rid of the golf and buy another little buzz box and in three years time give that to the missus and look at what's new on the Market and trade the Patrol then. Who knows Nissan might get there act together and put the V6 into the y61. Now that would be good.
What type of controller and plug do you have on your rig
Goona

[GBC]

I have Pm'd you.

[gofishin]

I am easy Brendon, Probably Auto would be best with the steep driveway...
Some more numbers for you Goona regarding spare payload, and based on autos and newer 3.5t rated dual cabs towing 3.5t, with max load on the towball. ~Top spec models used mostly.

Ranger XLT, 52kg kerb mass increase since my 2013 thread re towing. Now has 271kg spare payload capacity. Only one on this list that has towbar included as standard (which most people swap for a Mazda towbar due to hideous departure angle). Mazda one would be lighter too.

Note; this spare payload has to accommodate driver/people, cargo/luggage, options/accessories etc.

Navara ST-X, 300kg on ball, GVM derating, 220kg spare less say 25kg for a towbar = 195kg spare.

D-Max LS-U, use worst case kerb weight 1955kg. Spare payload = 495kg or say approx 470kg with a towbar.

Hilux SR5 manual (auto can only tow 3.2). Assume 350kg on the ball. Spare = 275 say 250kg with towbar.

BT50 kerb mass has only increased 2kg since 2013, all other capacity specs the same. Spare = 395kg less say 25kg = 370kg spare payload.

Haven't looked at the Collie specs.

If you want to option a steel bullbar and a canopy to your truck (I.e. Very common options), probably ~100kg or so combined, the Lux and Nav could only have one person (driver), and the Nav driver would not want to be the average Aussy!
Cheers
Brendon

[goona]

Some more numbers for you Goona regarding spare payload, and based on autos and newer 3.5t rated dual cabs towing 3.5t, with max load on the towball. ~Top spec models used mostly.

Ranger XLT, 52kg kerb mass increase since my 2013 thread re towing. Now has 271kg spare payload capacity. Only one on this list that has towbar included as standard (which most people swap for a Mazda towbar due to hideous departure angle). Mazda one would be lighter too.

Note; this spare payload has to accommodate driver/people, cargo/luggage, options/accessories etc.

Navara ST-X, 300kg on ball, GVM derating, 220kg spare less say 25kg for a towbar = 195kg spare.

D-Max LS-U, use worst case kerb weight 1955kg. Spare payload = 495kg or say approx 470kg with a towbar.

Hilux SR5 manual (auto can only tow 3.2). Assume 350kg on the ball. Spare = 275 say 250kg with towbar.

BT50 kerb mass has only increased 2kg since 2013, all other capacity specs the same. Spare = 395kg less say 25kg = 370kg spare payload.

Haven't looked at the Collie specs.

If you want to option a steel bullbar and a canopy to your truck (I.e. Very common options), probably ~100kg or so combined, the Lux and Nav could only have one person (driver), and the Nav driver would not want to be the average Aussy!
Cheers
Brendon


The only real one that could do it then and hav the capacity to cary 4 blokes in the car would be the BT50 or the Izuzu. Id be interested what the Collie comes in at as I am thinking of going this way due tot he deals they are running

[scottar]

Before deducting a towbar or other accessories, on paper the collie has 381 kg - will depend on who your mates are - big blokes may need to trot behind till they lose a few kegs

[goona]

Before deducting a towbar or other accessories, on paper the collie has 381 kg - will depend on who your mates are - big blokes may need to trot behind till they lose a few kegs

Yep just looking at the collie web site http://www.holden.com.au/cars/colorado and they have an excellent tow calculator. Did the exercise and as long as we are all sub 95 kgs we can tow the 3500kgs legally. I might have to go on a diet though lol

[scottar]

The numbers are that tight, if you stop for a drink, you'll have to take a leak before you get going again and leave your change in the tips jar. I say it's a government induced initiative to make the fisherman of Australia lose weight LOL.

[beerhunter]

Arn't we all getting around in overweight cars anyway? I mean my car weighs over 3 tonne every day mostly empty and 3.8 tonne on a trip. its meant to be 2900kg or something. Have an accident and most of the crap falls out anyway. i highly doubt you'd ever get busted for it.

[scottar]

Arn't we all getting around in overweight cars anyway? I mean my car weighs over 3 tonne every day mostly empty and 3.8 tonne on a trip. its meant to be 2900kg or something. Have an accident and most of the crap falls out anyway. i highly doubt you'd ever get busted for it.

Until you do. There have been reports over the years of DOT turning up at ramps to do spot checks with the scales and caravans being unloaded on the side of the road to be allowed to proceed. Urban myth or not - up to you if you want to take the chance I guess let alone dealing with your insurance company if it turns to custard. I know I couldn't afford to replace the car, let alone boat and car without insurance- not to mention if you manage to clean someone up in a big way or worse. Me personally - I am well within weight limits and if I ever need the extra kilos, I will get the cruiser upgraded.

[beerhunter]

Well there ain't much i can do about it. I can't afford an F truck and it wouldn't get me to where i want to go anyway so I'll just keep rockin on.

[rayken1938]

Until you do. There have been reports over the years of DOT turning up at ramps to do spot checks with the scales and caravans being unloaded on the side of the road to be allowed to proceed. Urban myth or not - up to you if you want to take the chance I guess let alone dealing with your insurance company if it turns to custard. I know I couldn't afford to replace the car, let alone boat and car without insurance- not to mention if you manage to clean someone up in a big way or worse. Me personally - I am well within weight limits and if I ever need the extra kilos, I will get the cruiser upgraded.
Not an urban myth scalies and transport quite often in skate board park in Colburn Ave at Victoria point.. Tilt tray operators do ok taking away oversize , unroadworthy and unregistered rigs.
Plus there is the other side of the penny how would you feel if someone is killed in an accident where you are driving a rig that is borderline.
Amazes me if you can afford to purchase a van or boat that weighs in at 3.5 t but quibble at purchasing something that can legally tow it.
Get a decent tow truck or a smaller rig and make the roads safer for others even if you do not care about yourself.
Cheers
Ray

[beerhunter]

I don't tow anything but I'm putting money on most 4x4s not towing are overweight it's almost impossible not to be.

[scottar]

You are certainly correct to a point Beerhunter. In the modern day of the ARB, TJM etc accessorized vehicle with bigger tyres, roof top tents, extra batteries, fridges, drawers, replacement bar work, long range tanks etc, there would be plenty of fourby's that by the time mum,dad, 2.5 kids and the labrador pile in would be over GVM unless upgrades were done. It has been this way for a few years now - possibly going as far back as the 80 series and GQ's but definitely with 100 series and GU's.

[Moejoes]

I totally don't understand the problem.
I tow my rig with one of those Tonka Truck - Mighty Boys.
Massive tow capacity.
111873111874

Sorry all, couldn't resist.

Merry Xmas all.
Cheers Rob.

[scottar]

I totally don't understand the problem.
I tow my rig with one of those Tonka Truck - Mighty Boys.
Massive tow capacity.
111873111874

Sorry all, couldn't resist.

Merry Xmas all.
Cheers Rob.

Don't laugh. I saw something not too dissimilar at Cleveland one day. In excess of 20 feet of boat behind an old school Daihatsu Scat or whatever the thing was.

[beerhunter]

You are certainly correct to a point Beerhunter. In the modern day of the ARB, TJM etc accessorized vehicle with bigger tyres, roof top tents, extra batteries, fridges, drawers, replacement bar work, long range tanks etc, there would be plenty of fourby's that by the time mum,dad, 2.5 kids and the labrador pile in would be over GVM unless upgrades were done. It has been this way for a few years now - possibly going as far back as the 80 series and GQ's but definitely with 100 series and GU's.
yep my old gu Dual cab is Overweight with the 2 Winches and Bar work let alone the mud in the Chassis [emoji1]

[YOOT]

Just had a look at the 130 defender dual cab.
gvm 3500, tow 3500
1.6t payload
I know, and I agree about what they are and what their shortcomings are, but those are some pretty impressive numbers.
They only talk 250 k.g. ball weight with a reduced gvm though so it will come back to the field a bit.

I till you go off road, they limit it to 1T towing. Not because the car isn't capable but because Land Rover aren't stupid.


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[goona]

Well now really confused after driving a few of them. Over the last week I have driven the Holden Colorado, Amarok, Ford Ranger and Nissan Navara. I have resided to the fact that none of them will comfortably tow 3.5t so looking for a ute that will tow camper and tinnie and keep the Patrol now for the next 3 to 4 years as the big boat tow vehicle and hopefully one of them will step up to the mark and do like say the Navara used to a V6 but tow 3.5T or a new Patrol with a V6 for eg and a 3.5T towing capacity. I was all set on the Amarok and took the girl for the test drive this morning. To my shock as it will be my car she wasn't happy with the Core + model at $42k and wanted the up spec model at $48k. No worries I thought. Better for me as I will be the one driving it. The minister of finance has released her purse strings. On the way home we were going past the ford dealer ship ok lets have a look at the Ranger. I was really impressed. Heaps more grunt and I recon they would tow the 3.5T boat no worries but the girl didn't like it that much. So off to Nissan to check out the new Navara. More punch than the Amarok but less than the Ranger. Felt more nimble coil rear end so smoother drive and best fuel economy out of all of them. The girl loves it as well. Thinking this is the way we will go and in 3 or 4 years she will get this and I will see what comes up in new development and buy a new one then, Happy wife happy life!!!!!

[Dan5]

I like the Navara and if not towing 3.5t makes a good choice IMO that coil bum end will make it a whole lot nicer than the back breaking leafs...........Get it.

[goona]

So I was all set to proceed with the purchase of the Navara an Colorado throw a deal out there for $44,990 for the LTZ. MMM now I am undecided again as the Colorado I recon would tow the boat fairly well. Ah well got to convince the girl this is the way to go.

[tunaticer]

Get a 2 tonne truck to tow your boat.

[NAGG]

So I was all set to proceed with the purchase of the Navara an Colorado throw a deal out there for $44,990 for the LTZ. MMM now I am undecided again as the Colorado I recon would tow the boat fairly well. Ah well got to convince the girl this is the way to go.

The collie never rates highly in the comparison tests (there are several good ones on the net) -

the price is self explanatory IMO for a car that doesn't do anything particularly well ...... just sayin

Chris

[GBC]

Get a 2 tonne truck to tow your boat.

You need a 6t truck to tow what these Utes tow.




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[goona]

The collie never rates highly in the comparison tests (there are several good ones on the net) -

the price is self explanatory IMO for a car that doesn't do anything particularly well ...... just sayin

Chris..

I'm with you Naggs. We went and drove the Collie again. No comparison so it is off to Nissan this Friday to strike a deal. Hopefully the dealer is feeling generous with the price of the Navara and the price he is going to give me for the trade.

[NAGG]

The leader really seems to be Ranger ....... yuck interior though with the Amarok 2nd

I did like the Amarok too & came close to buying one previously ....

The big question mark is ....... & they never seem to go over them in the comparison tests is the dealer / manufacturers support , build quality etc ....... I got frightened off from the poor record of VW in Australia ( the reputation is pretty crap atm - for quality .... but worst still support)


That said it was still a leap of faith buying the Nissan - a new model

Chris

[macka17]

Take a tip from an old fart (74) that's driven trucks fron 5 to to 250ton . plus Multi's (road trains to you)

You going to tow a genuine 3.5 ton on the road.
Only 4wd to buy is a Troopie. (76?) Any "ute" for sale in this country is a joke for that weight
I went from a 3 ltr Patrol manual set up for towing a 3.2 ton caravan.
did it for 14 yrs never missed a beat but they no good in Auto.
but 3.5ton is the killer.

Isuzu do a nice small truck as do that other jap but they trucks. the 200 won't do it, suspension and ratings wise with a load in. Neither will the best one (Patrol with chip)

NEVER put any towed load that weighs MORE than your tug behind it.
You an accident waiting to happen. I've seen more than my fair share in different country's over the 50 odd yrs I've been doing it.
And don't touch that VW ute till they put an engine under the bonnet and somebody else'
s electronics.
There's ain't worth shit.
But I would have one of their Bentleys to tow my van as long as it's warranty was current chuckle (3.4, 0 to 100)

Actually look at the review/tests on Tojo 200 compared to new petrol V8 Patrol.
real world figures, they ain't much difference in fuel and the grunt in that Petrol is ball tearing.
Plus it's a Patrol...

[goona]

Done the deal and bought the Navara. Got a really good deal and very happy with the 150klms done so far. Drives like a car with enough grunt. I will do a test run in a shopping centre one weekend towing the boat to see how it goes.

[gofishin]

Nice looking truck Goona.

Just remember to be very careful when you're towing your boat on big trips loaded @ 3.5t.

220kg less towbar, less nudge bar (if not a std inclusion), less whatever other options, less your lunchbox :) less your weight is the spare payload you have left for the decky or the missus! i.e. not much.

Cheers
Brendon

[astro66]

nice mate...is that the ST model ? ...wasnt to keen on the navara after the d40/d22 but after a look on Australia day they are a nice truck...only let down was the cheezy suede trim ... plenty of room in the back seats ...
Been looking for a mid range model ...
collie talked them down to 35k for the LS or 38k for a LTZ
navara ...36k for the ST
amarok.. 35k for the core ...
Ranger...had a 2011 pile of shit ....good luck to anyone who pays the 44k for one ...
Triton 34k for GLS .....
BT50 ..over priced...
hilux... overpriced ...

[beerhunter]

Yep the new navara is definitely a new beast much nicer car and coils on the rear [emoji4]

[goona]

nice mate...is that the ST model ? ...wasnt to keen on the navara after the d40/d22 but after a look on Australia day they are a nice truck...only let down was the cheezy suede trim ... plenty of room in the back seats ...
Been looking for a mid range model ...
collie talked them down to 35k for the LS or 38k for a LTZ
navara ...36k for the ST
amarok.. 35k for the core ...
Ranger...had a 2011 pile of shit ....good luck to anyone who pays the 44k for one ...
Triton 34k for GLS .....
BT50 ..over priced...
hilux... overpriced ...

Hi Astro,

It is the ST model was the same not keen at all on them especially after a lot of bad reports on the 2 previous models and my experience with Nissan warranty with the Patrol I.e. non existent. The trim I have is pretty good and one of the better ones of all the other manufacturers I test drove and you are right plenty of room in the back seats. I am 6'3 and fit no worries plus the ride in the back was the most comfortable of all that we tested. We almost bought a collie but then drove this and they are so much smother.

If you can get the Navara ST for $36k id grab it and resell it. Their RRP is $52k for the auto and the advertised deals at the moment are $47500. I did do better than that though.

Cheer Goona

[astro66]

yeah i cant figure pricing ....they are 44k advertised for the manual ...but they have some that were 38k ...talked to the sales and could do one around the 36k ...for a 2015
the collie they have one for 32k but is only in white ...advertised for 37k ....
evey dealer i have visited has been really keen to do a deal ....nissan dealer was trying hard to do a deal ...wanted to do a loan on the spot instead of cash ....spose they make some out of it ...
One thing every deal talked about was how the amarok could be recalled ....really like them but they are dated compared to some of the others ...
Dont think you could buy a bad one out of all the brands they all have their good points and bad points ....

[Lovey80]

That's a really strange thing to say Macca regarding the towed weight not being more than the tow vehicle. It just doesn't make sense. Care to elaborate as to why?

[YOOT]

The only issue I had with the new Navara is despite the song and dance about the coils it was the worst handling ute in the CA and 4x4 Monthly mega tests, and handled a 600kg load about the same as a wagon (poorly), otherwise as a family car and for putting the shopping in it went great (good motor performance) just a bit bizarre it failed quite spectacularly at its core duties against its rivals.

CA have a good review shoeing how badly the rear coils sagged with just 600kg on board where the others improved with more weight.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[astro66]

Easy fixed with rising rate springs pretty sure the after market guys will be all over this ....no biggie ....
I was pretty set on the navara .....thought i would go drive the triton and have a look ....glad i did ...very nice ...drove the GLS ...pretty much on par with the ST ...they have really fixed the interior set out from the last model the seat/trim material is better than the faux suede on the ST that i can see being a prick to keep clean ...
Plenty of leg room in the back ...super select 4wd is good you can select 2WD/AWD/H4/L4..not as much power but nothing in it really ...6 years warranty/roadside assist ...
Would have to get a good price to pick the mitzi over the navara though ....though i did go look at the collie again and its dated with the amarok and isuzu compared to the mitzi and nissan ...down to two to choose from ....

[beerhunter]

Navara has like 10mm thick coils from new so $200 dollars fixes that with heavy coils.
New triton is junk off road a guy i was with at landcruiser park put his front diff through the sump on an easy track [emoji29]

[astro66]

diff through the sump ? rock through it maybe ...

[beerhunter]

diff through the sump ? rock through it maybe ...
No mate the rock hit the bash plate the bash plate hit the diff the engine and diff are both on rubber mounts and the clearence wasn't enought to stop them hitting each other. Crack was on the drivers side engine out job.

[beerhunter]

And i shouldn't say the triton is junk i actually like them the new one looks a lot nicer too. But like most new cars they are a bit weak for hard off road stuff I'll stick to my patrol dual cab thanks.

[goona]

Did the first hwy run today and got this at the end just as I was pulling off the hwy. Was pretty impressed and should get better as the motor gets run in. Got to be happy with that.

[astro66]

nice......anyone would be happy with that ...my 2011 ranger was using about 11 per hundred lol ...dammit why are all the utes so good ...makes for a hard choice ...

[Oceanic Dave]

Did the first hwy run today and got this at the end just as I was pulling off the hwy. Was pretty impressed and should get better as the motor gets run in. Got to be happy with that.

Good to see!

Please provide an update once you tow the boat. Would be curious to see how it handles/stops. I like the Navara and would like to get one, have just been put off by reading all the other threads.

[goona]

Good to see!

Please provide an update once you tow the boat. Would be curious to see how it handles/stops. I like the Navara and would like to get one, have just been put off by reading all the other threads.

Hey Dave,

I probably wont tow the big boat with it as I will have to put another break controller on it and I still have the Patrol so I might as well use that. I will however take it down to a shopping centre car park one Sunday afternoon (Controlled Environment) and put it behind the Navara just to see how it does tow it. I probally will put a redarc brake controller that does the camper and we will probably use it to tow the camper. This will give me a bit of and idea as the camper is 1600kg. I know its only half the weight of the boat but it will give a bit of an indication.

Goona

[Oceanic Dave]

Oh I was looking forward to the report! Thanks for the reply :)

Have fun with the new Nav!