Tyres

[cuzzamundi]

G'day,

After some advice regarding my tyres.

The steering wheel shakes violently beyond 80 clicks, which I assumed meant another balance. Went to local tyre shop, and was told that it was caused by my tyres feathering - they're smooth one way and rough the other, like fish scales.

So, old mate says I'm up for four new tyres, 'cos these ones are rat shit, even though they've only got around 15000km on them. The odd thing is, two years ago, I experienced same wheel shaking with the same tyres that were near new, and a simple balance was all that was needed.

I want to know if anyone has experience with feathering. I know I should just go get a balance done and see if that's the issue, but money's tight, so thought I'd see if anyone has any advice before I start spending.

Thanks heaps.

Cuzza

[Chimo]

Where are you Cuzza, what tyres are we talking about on what breed of truck?

I had similar issues years ago on mine but I don't know what you have so wont get specific as it may not be relevant to yours.

In the mean time I went onto another site I frequent and did a search and here is a post that may assist you.

Expert http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/image.php?u=10773&dateline=1352104135 (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/member.php?10773-Lieney) Join Date May 2012
Location Adelaide,SA
Posts 283
Thanks 13 Thanked 71 Times in 38 Posts


A guide to tyre wear
If you look along the tread line of the tyre (from the back to the front over the top of the tread.
Wear on both outer edges of an individual tyre, all the way around = underinflation.
Wear on centre section of the tyre, all the way around = overinflation.
Scalloping can be caused by several things and I do not agree with shocks as the main cause. Shocks that are in poor condition will not help the issue but will not be the cause.
Wear around the tyre at differing heights (when looking across the top of the tyre from the rear), so tread is low, then high, then low etc as it goes around the circumference, but is fairly equal across the width, will be what they call static out of balance. This happens when one side of a wheel is heavier than another side. If you stuck a chunk of mud on the tread somewhere, it will cause the wheel to rotate until the mud is at the bottom (when wheel in air). This inbalance leads to an 'up-down' style of movement when driving and will result in vibrations or shudders through the steering if on a front axle, and will resonate through the car if on the back axle.
You can have tyres that are scalloped across the tyre and makes the sections of tread look like its worn like wedges. If this is all the way around and looks similar all the way around, it can be caused by tow-in or tow-out issues (you can tell by looking at the way the 'wedge' goes if its tow-in or out). This type of scalloping can also be caused by loose steering uni-joints, mainly in the drag link that links both wheels, or other steering components that allow the wheels to be pushed or dragged at an angle.
Scalloping that is a little uneven can be caused by dynamic wheel balance issues as the wheel wants to wobble sideways as well as up and down. This is when a wheel has a weighted section more on one side, but off-set from the middle. So if you stuck a weight to the side of you tyre you would get 'dynamic' issues.
This uneven type of scalloping can also be caused by loose wheel bearings.
If you have wear on the inside of the tyre more than the out (all the way around), this is due to a neg camber issue. If in a Patrol, I'd be considering your steering / king pin bushes and /or wheel bearings.
Keep in mind that mud tyres are hard to balance and keep them balanced. It took me 3 goes to get it spot on with my 33's and I have done them again end of last year, and will be doing them again soon as the wobble is back.
I had more than 200g on one side of a wheel when they were new.
Muddies, especially cheaper ones, are hard to balance unless the machine is on the right setting and the fellow knows exactly what he's doing.
If you have the wheels perfectly balanced, you should have no issues.
Tyre pressures generally wont cause real bad vibrations but if the tread was even a slightly different compound in areas (a fraction softer in one location than another) if it was a cheap or dodgy batch, then you will hit a 'soft-spot' each time it rotates. This is fairly unlikely. I'd be considering balance and physical items like steering and bushes.


Last edited by Lieney

Cheers
Chimo

[Feral]

Any issue that caused tyres to wear out in 1500k should be getting some serious spanner work done on the front end, anyone who said the tyres were stuffed and just need replacing without any other work needing doing after only 1500k's I'd be going elsewhere to get some advice from someone who knows what they are doing.

[hungry6]

Take a photo of the tread wear and put it up, sometime its a case of balance, sometime its an allignment
There could be other things in play. Some brand are worse than others.

[cuzzamundi]

Cheers, fellas, Some great advice - really appreciate it.

What I'll do is, after reading Chimo's post, go and get them balanced again. If it still happens, will look into other reasons. I just want to salvage these tyres if I can, cos it'll cost a grand to replace them.

Will get a photo of the tread on the weekend in daylight and post up here.

Once again, thanks heaps for the advice.

Cuzza

[Chimo]

what breed of truck?

[DATCOL]

Wheel alignment & balance is needed Shake is balance & feathering is alignment May be some worn steering components also adding to the problem
What part of the country are you at As I can balance them for you
Cheers COL

[cuzzamundi]

Thanks a heap for that offer, Col.

I went to Bob Jane today to get a second opinion, and they were great. Told me that my tyres needed to be rotated so that the scalloped front two could be flattened again over time. Also said that a balance wouldn't fix the problem, as my steering damper is stuffed, as well as my shockies. Advised to get them replaced, and the shaking should go. No charge, either, which was greatly appreciated. Great service.

Thanks again for the help/offers for help, fellas. Will hopefully get it sorted soon.

Chimo, she's a maverick, mate.

Cuzza

[-Chris-]

If the above advice from Bob Jane doesn't fix it I'd be looking at panhard rod bushes which is a common cause of front end shake in the Maverick/GQ. Buy only genuine Nissan rubber bushes not aftermarket urethane.

[Chimo]

Cuzza

As a Maverick ie GQ Patrol around late 80s early 90s there is an issue with the alignment that getting a standard wheel alignment will not fix.

The only way to resolve this as well as doing the usual issues like steering and shocks and balance is to fit a ring adjustment kit usually in the left front hub.

I had the same issue with my GQ Patrol and fitting the kit solved the problem. Its so long ago that I have to have a head scratch to remember the specifics. Will do that and add the extra details later. You need to talk to a Patrol expert as its unlikely that the current generation of front end people will either have the kit or know much about them.

Cheers
Chimo

OK here is some light reading for you
http://safetsteer.com.au/portal/content/view/192/337/
Nissan Patrol
Cast-a -Line Kit
SSNC-10 & SSNC-15 take OE Bearings
SSNC-20 SSNC-25
one kit covers one side





OE Size Cast-O-Line Eccentric Bearing Fitment Procedure
SSNC-15
Nissan/Toyota 78/79/80/100 Series

The vehicle should firstly be analysed for tyre wear effects, road crown/castor pull condition
etc. ensuring no "off-centre stabiliser" or "biasing" of a steer tyre is responsible. A test
drive is often beneficial, as well as establishing that the problem has been consistent over a
long period.
A set of alignment angles should be taken and recorded with particular thought given to
the camber and castor readings. Take note of preferred geometry settings at end of
instructions for comparison.
The correct rear axle alignment with respect to chassis centre line is also an important
consideration (zero thrust angle) - no unequal wheelbase.
Most vehicles (including 4WD's) pull left due to some degree of "road crown pull". This
critical aspect is rarely being addressed by the manufacturer (or some alignment shops for
that matter). A spread of castor is required to offset this condition, ensuring a straight
steering vehicle and elimination of tyre scrub due to variance of the steer wheels with the
thrust angle (driver input).
Incidentally, we read of "castor" not being a tyre wearing angle, however the indirect
effects of a castor pull is one of the worst forms of tyre scrub wear particularly in the radial
tyre.
The "wavy" shoulder wear experienced on our 4WD "wide floatation" radial, with a
prominent aggressive block treadis usually due to "camber" problem, where the tyre tread
meets the crowned road surface at some angle of difference. The bigger the difference,
the worse the shoulder wear. Too low pressure add to the concern.
These problems should not be confused with a "toe" indifference where a sharp edged
"scrub" one way is felt. Of course it is not unusual to find all 3 conditions evident which,
when rectified, provides dramatic improvements to tyre life, vehicle handling and ower
satisfaction.
Getting on with the job
If the "eccentric bearing ring" is to be fitted, it is more probable that both a camber and
castor change will apply so select the side of axle where the changes will rectify the overall
misalignment (i.e. generally cast-o-line process is done one side only - attempt to arrive at
the preferred settings in this manner). More than ever the left side is mostly chosen due to
excess camber. Here castor can generally be corrected to suit the right side untouched
spec.
The cast-o-line should not be used to correct a sagged or bent housing. In doing so the
CV joint to housing line up is not fixed.
The principal of any efficient and mechanically competent fitment and the end result lies in
the simplicity of the process and skills of the technician.
Minimum disassembly of componentry is required. The "knuckle" assembly is almost
removed in one piece. Brake calliper etc. remains undisturbed.
Procedure (Work Safely)
1. Chock wheels, jack up and remove wheel. Disconnect tie rod end.
2. Clamp brake hose (supply) and disconnect at fitment
3. Disconnect the axle "ball end" seal/wiper assembly at inner end of the knuckle. Slip out
of way along axle tube.
4. Remove the outer end of free wheel hub and then remove the axle retaining "circlip".
5. Remove the next section of free wheel hub containing female splined axle drive gear.
(This makes it simpler when refitting the knuckle assembly). Late Nissan 99 on and some
Toyota models require further disassembly to remove "backing plate" which allows access
to lower knuckle cap.
6. Remove top, then bottom knuckle bearing cap/arm, then supporting the "assembly"
with knee/thigh whilst leaning upper body over top within wheel well, withdraw the unit
without any further disassembly and place on workshop floor. Carry out any exterior
cleaning.
7. Remove the axle/CV joint "assembly" placing on a clean cloth. Leave the grease
undisturbed. High klm extreme use vehicles may have CV joint wear worth noting at this
time.
8. Clean area around top and bottom bearing rings which are now exposed within the axle
"ball end". Tap out the bearing rings (cones). Clean excess grease from the ball end
void. Look in the tube, any excess diff oil will surely give rise to a comeback of "seal
leakage" in the short term. Drain excess oil.
Fitting the patented eccentric bearing rings
1. Select the cast-o-line eccentric "bearing ring" for model and desired change of
camber/castor required.
2. "Place" the rings as per clock face table supplied, using a marker pen to establish the
index mark position. Slightly tap in bearing to maintain access to index mark flat.
3. N.B. The bottom ring is a 1800 "roll over" of the top ring. Position of bottom ring can
be checked by parallelism of 3 rulers placed on ring index flats, or refer to "Dial in card".
4. Fitment of the rings is a very important aspect of the process to ensure
professional results. Seat "ring" after careful line up in recess using a mild
steel flat plate.
5. At this time prepare the bearing caps (arm) for later fitment by:
Nissan product. "Pull" off original bearing and discard. Fit the new bearing supplied to
seat fully.
Pack new bearings with grease as per automotive practice.
Reassembly of Components
1. Replace the axle in housing. Note: On Toyota product and some other brands its wise
to install a new inner housing to axle shaft seal at this time. Centralise to mate the internal
spline. On some models the CV joint has 2 flats on outer case, which have to be
uppermost and lowermost to enter the ball end in way of bearing area.
2. Now re-position the "knuckle assembly" in place, supporting the weight with the thigh.
Locate the top cap (or arm) with shims and new bearing attached into the top knuckle
recess. Bolt up loosely.
3. Locate and tighten the lower bearing cap with original shims and new bearing attached.
Feel for correct alignment of components (don't force).
4. Tighten the upper bearing cap (or arm) nuts and check for some preload, yet freeness
of rotation of the knuckle. (The cast-o-line process has been engineered to maintain
original preload) If preload incorrect adjust with shims. If too tight add shims or if too
loose remove shims until an approx. 6kg pull of a spring balance is evident.
5. Remainder of re-assembly involves replacement of axle ball wiper seal unit, free
wheeling hub componentry tie rod end, brake hose (bleed calliper), refit wheel etc.
Wheel Alignment Adjustments
Carry out final wheel alignment and set "toe"
Preferred settings + or - 1/40
Camber Left: 1/40 neg Right: 1/20 plus

or minus 1/40
Castor More positive on left side 1/20 to 3/40 to offset road crown pull.
Toe Toyota 1mm out

Nissan 2mm out

Other 1-2mm out

[cuzzamundi]

Chimo that's some great info. I remember a few years ago, when the shaking happened, the bloke said that Patrols/Mavericks were notorious for it. Now I know why. When money permits I will get onto a Patrol specialist and get the kit installed. Looks like it's a must have, otherwise this will continue to happen.

Thanks a heap again for all the help - would never have known that!

Cuzza

[CT]

I just threw a heap of time and $ chasing down a steering wheel wobble in my GU patrol and in the end it was a loose wheel bearing. Why the bloody tyre fitters didn't pick it up in the first place I'll never know. I've got ST Maxx on it and they are scalloped to hell but the wheel is still now that the bearings are done and things are re-aligned and balanced.

Cheers
Craig