Epirb in harbour?? catching closed season fish ?

[CATchin'Em]

ran into a water police officer at the ramp the other day. We were all good.
The thing that is annoying me is he was handed out infringement notices for no or incomplete info on epirbs in the harbour?? This does not make sense to me and I had a chat to him, he proceeded to inform me that if I said I was going out past the partially smooth he is within his rights to issue a ticket. That I see as an issue. it is like saying I am going to drive home this afternoon with no seatbelt on, yeah the coppa can advise you that you need to put one on but he can't book you without infringing. very poor practice IMO and he got me offside immediately. and I will be following it up!

Then the catch a barra in closed season issue same as reef fish closure I think catch and release is fine and I am personally not happy about all the unclear and over done fishing rules bagging the poor recreational angler.

And the dinstinct lack of telling anybody when the rules etc change. how hard is it to send each boat owner a letter saying the rules have changed fisheries or boating rules!!!! the don't mind sending a letter when rego is due why not add the info in that letter if nothing else and let at least some people know!!!!!!!!

[NAGG]

Then the catch a barra in closed season issue same as reef fish closure I think catch and release is fine and I am personally not happy about all the unclear and over done fishing rules bagging the poor recreational angler.

And the dinstinct lack of telling anybody when the rules etc change. how hard is it to send each boat owner a letter saying the rules have changed fisheries or boating rules!!!! the don't mind sending a letter when rego is due why not add the info in that letter if nothing else and let at least some people know!!!!!!!!

where is your problem ? ..... is it with the notification , the closed season or not being able to target barra (but let them go) ?

Chris

[marto78]

I also think its a bit rich that they can fine someone before they actually break the law but I guess it is a bit like being fined for drink driving because you are at the pub with your car keys in your pocket. It just doesn't seem right does it.

[ShaneC]

That's crap. Like you say, if you approached a police officer and said you were going to drive over the speed limit on the way home, he wouldn't give you a ticket. If I got one under the circumstances you say I would certainly challenge it by saying I was going to go outside until I realised I had not fulfilled my safety obligations as pointed out by the nice officer. I am all for policing and enforcement because some need saving from themselves but to get a ticket for what you 'might' do is bullshit......

[NAGG]

I guess .... it's a case of you are required to have your EPIRB registered & updated every 18 month regardless.
Do the right thing and there is no problem !
same goes for flares ..... if you carry them , they have to be in date!

Chris

[jtpython]

U don't need an Epird in the Smooth Water Zone which in our area is fairly large .?
Is it that u had an Epirb But not registered it properly?
http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/~/media/msqinternet/msqfiles/home/safety/smooth%20and%20partially%20smooth%20water%20limits/swl%20keppel%20bay/pdf_s8sw6gladkeppelalmanth.pdf

[PinHead]

I believe it is irrelevant where you are..if you have an epirb on board it must be registered.

From AMSA:
"Registration stickers are issued by AMSA and provide distress beacon owners and marine inspectors with proof of current registration.
The sticker will note the HexID/UIN of the beacon, its registration expiry date (2 years from date of issue) and vessel name, aircraft tail number or owner's name depending on type of beacon and use. This registration sticker must be affixed to the beacon.
A fine may result if a current sticker is not affixed to a beacon during a safety equipment inspection."


"It is also prohibited to deliberately target barramundi for catch and release during these closed seasons, as the stress of capture may prevent a fish from spawning."


Does Dept of transport send you a letter every time a road rule is changed??


The onus is on the driver/skipper to stay abreast of changes etc.

[CATchin'Em]

No probs at all for us everything in date etc couldn't get us for anything, it just pushes my buttons that he thought this was ok, that is all.

Most people are unaware of the changes not so much being negligent as being uninformed that is what gets to me.

There is a lot of people who need informing of the updates that is what I am getting at, as they may miss the finer detail

And he was issueing for not haveing one at all!!!!

[Secret Spot]

I agree with you catchinem and marto, the right thing would have been inform those people of there responsibility as they are the law, and if the law is broken pay the fine but to enforce a fine for a probable offence that has not been commited is taking it a bit to far. Do not get me wrong I am one to make sure safty is paramount and probably a little over the top in this reguard, better to be safe than not i say but there is also a lot of boaties that are not so and to inform some one would be a far better solution rather than issuing fines for an offence that has not been commited.It is little wonder that the relationships of some police enforsment officers are what they are. I for one respect police who are realists a warning of your responabiliy would have been a better out come in this instince,as they were in the harbour not outside.

[ShaneC]

Nagg and Pinhead, sorry dudes you are wrong this time. As another related example, and I make it my business to be up with current legislation because I have to. Serviceable inflatable PFD1's dont need to be serviced, as long as you have other PFD1's on board for every person on the vessel at the time. I carry both types, ones guys can slip on, and others available for inspection..... absolutely perfectly legal, and I service the inflatables myself as because thats how I roll!! I also carry all my spare flares that are out of date, however I have in date ones available for inspection, in the same container. And hows this, I also have an out of date water activated EPIRB which I retired due to water activation being a problem, I store it well within sight of inspection and it is wapped in glap wrap. Also perfectly legal. Id rather be looking at them in an emergency than looking for them. I also carry, as an extra, out of date flares in my tinny, in plain view and inspected from time to time, with no hassles because I dont need them in the places I take the tinny.

[jtpython]

No probs at all for us everything in date etc couldn't get us for anything, it just pushes my buttons that he thought this was ok, that is all.

Most people are unaware of the changes not so much being negligent as being uninformed that is what gets to me.

There is a lot of people who need informing of the updates that is what I am getting at, as they may miss the finer detail

And he was issueing for not haveing one at all!!!!
Lol Buddy u have none in ya cat or just in a smaller boat ?
Hope weather is good next next week back work this week so don't cares lol
\

[Fillet`n`Release]

Yeah I'm pretty sure the situation with EPIRB is, regardless of where you are, if you have one, it must be registered with appropriate registration sticker attatched (think of it like gun registration, if you've got it, you've got to have it registered or you're up sh*t creek if you're holding it and it's not). I was over at Tangalooma last weekend and got pulled up. Went over everything with a fine tooth comb, including specifically wanting to see my EPIRB was registered with affixed sticker. I made extra effort to highlight my $13 LIFEJACKETS f@#$'in sticker. Whoever is making those things is making a killing.

Personally I think it should be a necessity of the Dept of Transport to include a pamphlet of the *current* regulations, with extreme highlighting of any new additions or changes *EVERY YEAR* when you get your boat/trailer rego renewal. It's a complete joke that they can mysteriously make new rules or append existing ones, and then blame the skipper for not paying attention. It's almost as bad as the frequency of fish regulation changes. I think the powers that be need to hold some responsibility for making a genuine effort to inform their *tax paying* constituents of the rules they need to abide by.

[TheRealAndy]

Interesting... My epirb that I use on both my sailng boat and polycraft needs to be registered, I dont take either boat outside of partially smooth waters. But rules is rules, and both boats could easily be taken into limits where EPIRBS are required. Law says they have to be registered.

But, I also have a personal epirb, or what they really call it, a PLB. It does not have to be registered. Yachting Australia requires me to have it in certain offshore races (and I can be audited) but no legal requirement to have it registered. I also use it when I go dirtbike riding on my own.

FWIW, I actually have my PLB registered anyway. It cost nothing and will enable them to differentiate between a false alarm and a real emergency.

[NAGG]

Nagg and Pinhead, sorry dudes you are wrong this time. As another related example, and I make it my business to be up with current legislation because I have to. Serviceable inflatable PFD1's dont need to be serviced, as long as you have other PFD1's on board for every person on the vessel at the time. I carry both types, ones guys can slip on, and others available for inspection..... absolutely perfectly legal, and I service the inflatables myself as because thats how I roll!! I also carry all my spare flares that are out of date, however I have in date ones available for inspection, in the same container. And hows this, I also have an out of date water activated EPIRB which I retired due to water activation being a problem, I store it well within sight of inspection and it is wapped in glap wrap. Also perfectly legal. Id rather be looking at them in an emergency than looking for them. I also carry, as an extra, out of date flares in my tinny, in plain view and inspected from time to time, with no hassles because I dont need them in the places I take the tinny.

So all you are doing is carrying around all your out of specification safety gear in addition to the required legal gear ...... :-?
Next time you get checked by the water police - pull out the out of date EPIRB & flares and show them to the police ........ then let us know the outcome .

Btw - out of date flares can be dangerous as they can splutter or even explode ........ So carry them at your own risk
& all marine EPIRBs must be registered with an updated sticker attached

Chris

[ShaneC]

With pleasure, the outcome will be the same as last time and the time before...... No issues, and if I get told it is an issue I will take all the spare safety gear off.

Seriously, flares do not splutter or explode, that is absolute rot. They have a simple initiation system by design, and much like all ammunition, if kept dry and stored properly will still work exactly as designed in many many years time. Waxed fuses do not degenerate, neither does the contents that make the flare burn. If they are spluttering or exploding, they have either been wet, knocked around or tampered with because explained simply they are a not very complex chain reaction igniting a stable substance. It just works.....

But Ill continue to do as I do, and know that I have spares should the worst happen.

Cheers.....

[wave dancer]

Out of date flares can explode, lol, how does a flare no its out of date and its time to explode. I guess all those unexploded ordinance left from world war two must have had a long expiry date.

[ShaneC]

Yep.... exactly!!!!

[cormorant]

In NSW the flare problem is that they are only recognised as a " flare " when in date . When expired they are classed as a explosive. Unless you are lic to carry and store expolsives , have suitable container , security you are possibly in the crap with a jobsworth officer or if there is a incident caused by out of date flares your insurer may wipe you.

Do I carry my last out of dates - damm right I do - well maybe - who's asking ::). I check their external condition and keep them stored well. Do I show em - no way- stored seperately. What ones will I use first in a emergency - new ones then the old as a back up. Strange about flares as VMR for years has suggested you keep your old ones as backups.

From a insurance perspective a captian or boatowner who knows there is equipment on a boat that isn't up to standard may have a issue. Yep I selfservice my inflatables lifejackets , keep records but use bricks and foam zip PDF1 jackets on inspections and guests on bars wear foam zip up ones.

Is a marine epirb a marine epirb without a sticker on it? Is there some special charge based on intent ? Someone should clarify this one in writing. It smells

So again bushwalkers, 4wd etc don't have the same regulation as boaters when the rescue process is the same - how weird is that.

[bigjimg]

I was inspected out at Hutchies last week and they didn't even ask to see the Epirb.Wanted to see the jackets and the V sheet and the contents of the esky thats it.Very thorough, not.He wouldn't have been disappointed though all is in order.Jim

[Feral]

If your silly enough to admit your intent to break the law you can hardly complain.
Remember, apart from your name and address you dont have to answer any questions asked, but to avoid the "hard look", best to just be vague when asked questions by coppers.
EG, just a " its a lovely day so we thought we would launch and have a look around" - no details of what your doing of where your going!

Bit like when your rat running in a "local traffic only" area and they ask you what you are doing. "Just dropped of the new apprentice Tim", no not sure of where he lives, just dropped him at the top of the street back there, geez, now you mention it I dont know his last name, only been there a couple of days....... ;)

[TheRealAndy]

Out of date flares can explode, lol, how does a flare no its out of date and its time to explode. I guess all those unexploded ordinance left from world war two must have had a long expiry date.

This biggest problem with flares is failures. The older they get, the less reliable they are. Next time your local VMR is doing a flare demo, head down. Count the number of failures. You are not supposed to burn old flares at demos' but I do. Try it and you will understand why you need to replace them every four years. Even seen in date flares fail.

[NAGG]

Out of date flares can explode, lol, how does a flare no its out of date and its time to explode. I guess all those unexploded ordinance left from world war two must have had a long expiry date.

I've seen one splutter and carry on when activated (& a couple not work at all)....... I've been told of a para flare blowing outwards.
it's why flares carry a very short use by date ...
All manufacturers stipulate that you do not use the flares beyond their use by date .

Chris

[Noelm]

yep agree, I have seen a couple go mad when activated, the red night time flare I have seen break in half and the molten/burning end fell on the floor of the boat, so... make sure even when lighting, that you have it held over the side, not "in" the boat, also saw a demo paprachute commercial grade one, (that you stand upright on the deck and fire) fall over and shoot across the ground at a million miles an hour, before it exploded in a (luckily) empty carpark! Not too sure how dangerous they are if they are just left alone, even when years out of date.

[odes20]

Any way back to original issue, cant see how such a ticket for potentially committing an offence could ever stand up if tested in court. Its not even circumstantial evidence. I wouldnt even accept such a ticket handed to me. Where is one guilty of robbing a bank while driving there? Im in strife in the act of or after, not for saying i will. Total nonsense.

[PinHead]

Any way back to original issue, cant see how such a ticket for potentially committing an offence could ever stand up if tested in court. Its not even circumstantial evidence. I wouldnt even accept such a ticket handed to me. Where is one guilty of robbing a bank while driving there? Im in strife in the act of or after, not for saying i will. Total nonsense.


"CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 114

Being armed with intent to commit indictable offence 114 Being armed (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s4.html#armed) with intent to commit indictable offence


(1) Any person (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s4.html#person) who:
(a) is armed (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s4.html#armed) with any weapon, or instrument, with intent to commit an indictable offence,
(b) has in his or her possession, without lawful excuse, any implement of housebreaking or safebreaking, or any implement capable of being used to enter or drive (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s114.html#drive) or enter and drive (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s114.html#drive) a conveyance (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s114.html#conveyance),
(c) has his or her face blackened or otherwise disguised, or has in his or her possession the means of blacking or otherwise disguising his or her face, with intent to commit an indictable offence,
(d) enters or remains in or upon any part (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s154e.html#part) of a building (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s91i.html#building) or any land occupied or used in connection therewith with intent to commit an indictable offence in or upon the building (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s91i.html#building), shall be liable to imprisonment for seven years.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) (b) "conveyance" means any cab, carriage, motor car, caravan, trailer, motor lorry, omnibus, motor or other bicycle, or any ship, or vessel (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s154e.html#vessel), used in or intended for navigation, and "drive" shall be construed accordingly."

[odes20]

Whoa Pinhead, youre missing the point! A bloke at a boat ramp says he may travel our of smooth waters. Hes not there yet! cant be booked on words only! He has to go and do it, to actually commit the offence. My ananogy of some dude saying generically hes going to rob a bank may well be a poor one in your eyes, but try and get the simple point. Ya cant be booked in advance for an infringement not committed. If a moron already has his balaclavea on and a hangun, hes already breaking laws.

All your quoted crap is a distraction in this simple issue. A bloke getting his boat ready at the ramp with his kids without an epirb in smooth waters hasnt broken the regulation till he goes out. End of story.

[GABBA110360]

i would have thought that a hundred bucks in flares and a in date epirb would be the least of your outlays while your cruising around in your 20/30/40 thousand dollar combo with who ever on board.
bloody cheaper than the fuel you are gunna burn ,
when the shit hits the fan you might have some hope of getting out of it

[PinHead]

Whoa Pinhead, youre missing the point! A bloke at a boat ramp says he may travel our of smooth waters. Hes not there yet! cant be booked on words only! He has to go and do it, to actually commit the offence. My ananogy of some dude saying generically hes going to rob a bank may well be a poor one in your eyes, but try and get the simple point. Ya cant be booked in advance for an infringement not committed. If a moron already has his balaclavea on and a hangun, hes already breaking laws.

All your quoted crap is a distraction in this simple issue. A bloke getting his boat ready at the ramp with his kids without an epirb in smooth waters hasnt broken the regulation till he goes out. End of story.

you are the one stating about robbing banks and saying intent is not illegal...it very well can be.

from the original post: "infringement notices for no or incomplete info on epirbs in the harbour" you are correct..no infringement if no epirb in smooth waters. The way i read the AMSA stuff is that it is illegal to not have the epirb registered regardless of where you are. Perhaps you should have the initial post correctly.

[Aussie123]

It is compulsory that all marine epirbs are registered and stickered by law so at a guess I would say the cop was in his right to do what he did.
Sure you only need one outside 2nm in open waters but the fact remains by law they must be in current rego and labelled appropriately.
Also once in a boat no matter where you are they would still be deemed as safety gear and needing to comply with the law.