Brain Spiking fish

[fishfeeder]

Been looking for information on Brain Spiking fish and can't seem to find much...
1. What do YOU use ?
2. Do you spike first then cut the throat ?
3. How do you find the brain on most fish ?
4. Does it really make a difference to the taste of the fish ?

I have looked on Youtube and Google and can't really find any useful information

Cheers
Brett

[madmackrel]

Brett google ike jime , plenty of info

[goona]

Hi Brett,

Check out my brothers post

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?166177-Brain-spiking-and-more&highlight=brain+spiking

Regards Goona

[Crunchy]

Been looking for information on Brain Spiking fish and can't seem to find much...
1. What do YOU use ? Ideally a spike but a fine pointed knife does the trick
2. Do you spike first then cut the throat ? Yes, the idea is to instantly kill the fish
3. How do you find the brain on most fish ? I only know snapper, just behind the eye (And up little bit)is a soft shallow indentation, you can feel it, just use a finger and slide it around, its actually quite easy to identify. Stick your spike or knife in there and aim slightly up to the head, the fish will contort and then quickly go limp if you hit the right spot.
4. Does it really make a difference to the taste of the fish ? Its not glaringly obvious but I think it is perceptable, the more a fish flaps around the more lactic acid builds up in the muscles...equally important is to bleed and ice it down immediately.


I have looked on Youtube and Google and can't really find any useful information

Cheers
Brett

I tried to brain spike an E.C. a while back, thought "Should be through the top of the head", man have they got tough heads, broke the knife and stabbed my hand, it got infected and I had to go to the hospital and ended up on several courses of antibiotics....cod 1, crunchy nil

[fishfeeder]

Goona, Mate that's a great clip... I remember seeing that ages ago but couldn't find the clip again...

Crunchy, Yeah was thinking it would kill the fish faster then just cutting the throat, but sticking a spike into the hand could wreck a good days fishing...

Going to sharpen an old screw driver and see how it goes.

Cheers
Brett

[MudRiverDan]

I wouldn't bother spiking anything under 7kg.
Cut throat kills em.

[pipifin]

I've got one of those cheap socket/screwdriver "T shaped contraptions that you get for your spark plugs, usually with a chinese whipper snipper or "Talon" chainsaw. took the grinder to it to make it nice and pointy. I have always spike all fish, mainly because that's how I was taught. Any fish that requires bleeding, I still cut the throat.
I was with the kids on the jetty one day, and a young fella (about 10yo) down the end landed a nice flatty. His dad didn't really know what to do, so I used his knife and showed him how to spike the brain. I also pointed out the spikes on the gills and told them to watch out because you will bleed a fair bit. They were very grateful and very happy and I also told them the best method of filleting the fish. I must have sounded like some sort of expert..... until the another dude came sauntering along the jetty.... I can still hear his spurs jangling on the worn timber of the old jetty (least that's how I remember it). He then went on to show us how to "snap" the flathead at the base of the head rendering it dead even more quickly than my method. I was suitably impressed and have used this method ever since.
Does anyone else?
He also came up to me afterwards and said that if you DO get cut by the gills, you simply flip the flattie over, and the slimy goo on the underbelly is actually a coagulant and will help limit the bleeding.... I haven't tried this one yet though... I prefer to just not get cut.
Dude just wandered away, unaware of the impact he would have on my fishing days, and the knowledge of his that I have passed on since.
I like to call him "The Flattie King"..... wherever he may be. (wonder if he is related to Spaniard King?)
....... bit off topic I guess

[Noelm]

kind of think if the fish is spiked and dead, then cutting the throat will do bugger all, you need the heart pumping to pump the blood out, and as mentioned, couldn't be bothered spiking anything that is not "BIG"

[fishfeeder]

Noel that's one of my questions. Do you Cut the throat and then Brain spike, In that youtube clip that Goona posted, the lady said the heart still beats but the brain is dead, so that would mean it would bleed out like normal or am I missing something ??

We used to kill and butcher a lot of our own animals when I was younger and I would get my ass kicked if I stuffed up a kill... Was told a quick clean kill helps the meat be tender because the animal wasn't stressed... makes sense to me.

[Muddy Toes]

Someone's getting excited about September by the sounds of it.

[tunaticer]

If they are brain dead from spiking the heart will not be beating......brain spiking prevents all bodily functions happening.
I prefer to throat cut keeper fish and whack thier head in a bucket of sea water, they bleed out very quickly then whack them on ice.
Makes cleaning the fish so much less messy once they are bled properly.
I spike keepers I can not let the tail hang out of the bucket in case they kick and upend the bucket. Generally anything over 80cm gets a prod in the noggin if I am going to keep it.

[Crunchy]

I was going to talk about bleeding after spiking, I've been spiking snapper since I was a teenager, that's how I was taught, we didn't bleed fish. When I move to qld bleeding fish was the MO so now I do either or both as the mood takes me. From observation you can still bleed a spiked fish but they don't seem to bleed out as much as an unspiked fish, personal preference I guess, I think I lean more towards a properly bled fish.

[bondy99]

I use to work on commercial vessel and we spiked 1 tonne of Blue Eye Trevalla.

We used a stainless steel spiker that had a hollow point, so when you spiked it the corer will take a piece out then you insert a wire, qwe used about 2 mm or so and shoved it through the whole....the wire travels along the spine until you can go no further then draw the wire out.

Our crew were taught by a Japanese fella who had many years expertise in spiking tuna.

The rationale to this is to kill the fish instantly, as tunaticer said, all functions stop, its the electrical activity that is still carried out when you cut a fishes throat. sure it will bleed but its still doing damage to the flesh...the spiking and follow through with wire stops the electrical conductivity of the fish. You will obtain 100% white flesh this way, if it's not done properly you will see signs of brown tinge in the flesh radiating from the spine outwards.

Japanese are very fussy with their fish , that's why they pay top dollar and 9 times out of 10 use their own crew to carry out this deed.

Hope this might give you an insight as to the rationale....you do this whilst the fish is alive, not dead and definetly dont cut the throat, thats done after its been lobotomised (brain spiked)

Cheers, bondy

[fishfeeder]

I found a few Youtube sites that make a cut down at the tail then they brake the tail and thread a bit of wire up the spine to kill the fish... I guess its the same but in reverse as to what you said Bondy99

Cheers
Brett

[bondy99]

fishfeeder (Brett),

Yep could be, I have not seen or been searching for any Youtube clips, just be going on my knowledge and experience.

About that Youtube clip you was viewing, out of curiosity, what fish were they doing that procedure on?

Cheers, Bondy

[fishfeeder]

This what I am talking about (still looking for the one I found)
But it looks like he cuts the throat or maybe spikes the brain from a different angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gFlceDxdwg

Will keep looking for the original one I found

[fishfeeder]

here is another one that might help the estuary fishers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY9ELfzzsgA&feature=related

This is a good clip as it gives the spot where to do it on flathead and its seems very fast and humane

Cheers

[Noelm]

not 100% sure bleeding good fish, like (say) Snapper and so on is of any benefit, they do not have bloody meat or blood lines regardless of what you do to them, so unless it is a Tailor or Tuna, then for me, it is just into an esky with ice and clean later, no throat cutting or brain spiking.

[Lucky_Phill]

Brett, as a side note, I don't usually cut a fishes throat.

I do cut species like Cobia, Trevally and Mackerel.

Brain spiking is the go.

Fish Co-ops stopped taking cut fish ( from pro's.... mackerel in particular ) a while ago as it could allow bacteria into the flesh. I agree along these lines in that if you have various species in the esky with throats cut, you have their undigested food ( and old baits etc ) spewing out into the slurry ( or not ) and possibly contaminating other fish and also some species have certain bacterium that will conflict with other species.

I have a kill tank for bleeding my pelagics.............. once they've stopped bleeding, they are then popped into the slurry, but I try to keep them seperate from reef dwellers.

Just the way I do it.............


LP

[fishfeeder]

At the moment I just cut the throat and let bleed out in an old esky, they flap around until dead, then they get a dip in the ocean to wash off the blood and placed into a ice slurry.

I will give brain spiking a try and see how it goes, I guess it cant hurt unless I spike myself in the process !!

[Rainbowrunner]

Used to supply large kings and tuna to Japanese Restaurants and they preferred brain spike and tail cut and broken, immediate ice slurry.
Any reef fish we caught commercially where just iced and packed whole.
I only bleed fish with a high metabolism, ie mackerals, kings, cobia,tuna, mahi mahi, tailor, etc but most bottom dwellers are just thrown straight into an ice slurry.

[thelump]

I have been doing both the spiking and cutting of gills on my snapper for a little while now and reckon there is a difference. The last trip there were a couple that just got spiked and thrown in the slurry as was a hottish bite. When filleting there distinct differences in flesh colour in a couple of the fish. Not bad but definately not as white as the gill cut fish.

[2IC]

I do the same as Macca for my snaps ,, plus I like to bleed parrot fish ,,never used too until old mate showed me the diff between one that hads its throat cut & one without the blood in the flesh was there & the one bleed had nice white flesh ,,

Cheers bill

[team_mongo]

Use a ikijime spike. They are avail from tackle stores. Between the eyes and wiggle it around. The idea is to take out the brainstem (it controls the primitive reflexes like straining, breathing etc.). The fish will go floppy. Taking out the brain and the spinal cord does not stop the heart immediately. It will stop from asphyxia, but the difference is the fish hasn't strained during this time, so the lactic acid won't be as high and maybe the flesh sweeter. If you bleed a fish immediately after spiking a fish, it is obvious the heart is still beating as the blood spurts out of the base of gills. If the heart was not beating it would dribble out. You can cut the heart out of an animal and it will continue to beat for several minutes, it does not need the brain to beat.

TM

[Muddy Toes]

If I can just show my ignorance as a non fish eater and ask is all this brain spiking and the likes actually making a significant difference to the meal for your average fish eating pallet?

[Portacol]

Agree totally with you lump & 21C. I do this with all keepers no matter what species.

[Triple]

If I can just show my ignorance as a non fish eater and ask is all this brain spiking and the likes actually making a significant difference to the meal for your average fish eating pallet?

http://www.cookingissues.com/2012/06/26/the-practical-philosophy-of-fish-killing-and-the-ike-jime-man/

[Muddy Toes]

Did you watch that chef cook the eel?

There's not a wonder he's got 3 Michelin stars.

Thanks for the link.

[Triple]

Thought it was a good read too.. I am not a fan of eel (had unagi a few times at cheaper Japanese restaurants but nothing of that quality!) but after watching it I really wanted to taste his to see how good it could be. Awesome process especially with air but agree with the crap music comment :)

[Portacol]

Great link Triple. I was about to fillet a couple of k g whiting to cook up & I tried the tail cut & ran some 60lb mono up the cord. Easy. I will use this method next time out on the water, that's if I can catch a fish I guess.

[Goodoo haven]

http://www.cookingissues.com/2012/06/26/the-practical-philosophy-of-fish-killing-and-the-ike-jime-man/

Great link Triple.

[krusey]

I've got one of those cheap socket/screwdriver "T shaped contraptions that you get for your spark plugs, usually with a chinese whipper snipper or "Talon" chainsaw. took the grinder to it to make it nice and pointy. I have always spike all fish, mainly because that's how I was taught. Any fish that requires bleeding, I still cut the throat.
I was with the kids on the jetty one day, and a young fella (about 10yo) down the end landed a nice flatty. His dad didn't really know what to do, so I used his knife and showed him how to spike the brain. I also pointed out the spikes on the gills and told them to watch out because you will bleed a fair bit. They were very grateful and very happy and I also told them the best method of filleting the fish. I must have sounded like some sort of expert..... until the another dude came sauntering along the jetty.... I can still hear his spurs jangling on the worn timber of the old jetty (least that's how I remember it). He then went on to show us how to "snap" the flathead at the base of the head rendering it dead even more quickly than my method. I was suitably impressed and have used this method ever since.
Does anyone else?
He also came up to me afterwards and said that if you DO get cut by the gills, you simply flip the flattie over, and the slimy goo on the underbelly is actually a coagulant and will help limit the bleeding.... I haven't tried this one yet though... I prefer to just not get cut.
Dude just wandered away, unaware of the impact he would have on my fishing days, and the knowledge of his that I have passed on since.
I like to call him "The Flattie King"..... wherever he may be. (wonder if he is related to Spaniard King?)
....... bit off topic I guess

wiping the cut on the belly of the flatty works my grandafather taught me that and it doen't just slow it it pretty well stops it

cheers Krusey

[fishfeeder]

Just a quick update...

The last trip to 1770 we brain spiked all the fish and I do believe the Fillets taste and look a lot cleaner...
One thing I noticed was that after spiking the fish it just went limp when you hit the right spot..

I will be spiking all my fish from now on before putting into the esky...

Cheers
Brett

[marto78]

Hey Brett did you bleed them as well?

[mattttty]

Hey go to www.ikijime.com they have downloadable PDF charts that show you where the brain is on different fish

[bundylundy]

As "Matttty" said, www.ikijime.com (http://www.ikijime.com) has downloadable pdf's for Freshwater, Esturary and Offshorre species. I have got brocuhures for each of the catagories out of one of the latest fishing magazines.They have been funded by the Australian Animal Welfare Strategy. I have included them in my onboard paraphenalia for quick reference if I get a species I am unsure of where to spike.

Jeff.

[Lancair]

I havent been catching snapper for yrs, but I have been eating it.
In the last fw months Ive caught more than ever and have been sharing it amoungst family and friends. Until the last 2 trips Id just been doing what my fishing mates had been doing, throwing them in the esky and cleaning them when we got back. After to chatting to an old timer at the cleaning table one day I did a bit of research. Anyway to cut a long story short, I brain spiked and bled the next fwe catches and I have received a couple of reports that the last lot fish I gave away, was the nicest tasting snapper ever !
My gf and I thought so too.