another knife thread.

[rando]

I just spent a couple of hours improving the edge on a 9 inch Shimano fillet knife.
I am still not happy with the edge but it is an improvement on the off the shelf product, but i will have to wait till i am suitable inspired OR lubricated to give it another crack.
Has anyone tried one of these out.
They are manufactured in china.
They have a good hand-grip but they are not expensive less than $25
They have a wide-ish blade not too flexible more towards a boning style blade than a filleter
Out of the box the edge is ordinary ,,, 2 stubbies and an hour and a half of whetstone only gets me to a so-so edge. Pretty hard steel by my experience.
I hope that it will hold its edge once I get what i want
I have been honing on diamond hones 400 & 1000 and finishing on a 6000 jap waterstone .
If anyone has tried one out I am interested to hear your report.

[griz066]

http://www.anysharp.com/

I have one of these and it is bloody awesome.

[tunaticer]

I ripped the shoulders off mine with a coarse diamond stone then cleaned it with a medium diamond stone and edged it with a few strokes on a fine diamond steel. Whole process took me about 15 mins.
Good for whacking fillets off snapps and skinning them quickly.
It was never going to be anything more than a work horse so i didn't attack it with anything to make it shiny.
I bought it primarily for the generous handle and its long stiff blade not for a name or bling.

They are not a really hard blade at all, quickly take an edge and they hold it for a little while.

[banshee]

They are not a great knife and to be honest I would be suprised if they were made of anything better than your common bread and butter knife steel.Far better to get hold of a decent knife,Martini have a budget line out at the moment for around forty bucks that are made of a recognised knife steel (12c27 I think) that will take a very accute angle and hold the edge without rolling it.Haveing said that,no knife can be sharpened to any degree of sucess if you can not keep the angle perfect,one bad pass will undo half an hour of meticulous work in a millisecond.

[rando]

Jack
Same same .I bought it as a work horse,
Im still using my Victorinox fillet and boner from my chef days, I bought them in 74, still going strong.

Banshee
I think I am pretty consistent at holding the angle, been doing it for a lot of years.

Which brings me to think about the hones.
I bought them at Carbatec a few years ago and they were quite inexpensive .They dont appear to have any brand name on them or on their box
They have an abrasive metal layer bonded to a plastic body.
I know the first time i used them they absolutely ripped metal off my blades. Which made me quite cautious using them, but I have noticed, with use, they seem to have lost a lot of cut.
HMMMMM. I know with the work i did, the blade should be close to surgical.
Does anyone have any experience of diamond stones ablating with use???

Gris
I would only use one of those on a two dollar woolies bait knife. Good way to <#(& a knife in my opinion.
cheers
rando

[Gordie]

I agree with Rando. I was lucky to find a Victorinox some one had left on a park barbie and the steel is great. Holds a good edge.
After using their pocket knives for the last 30 years I am convinced they would not put their name to anything but the best steel available.

Gordon

[nigelr]

I have a Zwilling hand-held diamond 'steel' and it has lost some of it's 'grit' over the years. Still works, but unfortunately not as good as when new. So if a steel can lose the grit I'd guess a stone could too.

[Stu Dows]

I am no expert in knife sharpening by any means and brought a book from my second hand book store and it has helped immensley. However last week I left my knife in a mates boat and brought a cheapy to get me by for a trip to straddy an could not get this knife to hold an edge or even produce one. I had to buy another on the island and with the recomendation of a local I brought another cheapy and it is awsome. go figure

[BGG]

nigelr
A good test for any diamond sharpener is to rub it on a glass ashtray or the bottom of a heavy drinking glass. If it scratches it, it's still OK. Even though they lose their initial grittiness, they are still very effective.

[banshee]

nigelr
A good test for any diamond sharpener is to rub it on a glass ashtray or the bottom of a heavy drinking glass. If it scratches it, it's still OK. Even though they lose their initial grittiness, they are still very effective.

Yep,that's the same as what was written with my ezy-lap,it also stated to give a wash and scrub every now and then in warm water useing soap.
Unlike a stone,diamond sharpeners remove material relevant to the pressure applied,so in theory start off with a firm pressure and finish with feathering.

[MudRiverDan]

I know a little about sharpening knives.

Firstly your knife at least has two planes or edges the main one then the cutting edge.

The main edge often has to be ground down to maintain the blade and to make sure there is no shoulder forming on the blade, this is done with a belt grinder, this is only done after the knife has had a lot of use and the blade shape impedes sharpening the cutting edge, and with a thin fillet blade you might be able to get a reasonable result with a two sided stone depending on how thick the blade is..

Then you got your cutting edge at probably 25-30 degrees, you want it reasonably steep for cutting through ribs when filleting.
If the angle is too fine it will constantly dull the blade on bones.

Best to sharpen the edge with a two sided stone, one is quite rough and the other is smoother.
You will get a very sharp edge with a two sided stone.

Then if you feel inclined hit with a steel, and use the steel every now and then to keep the edge straight when filleting.

With the above methods you should be able to get a knife that will shave you in 5 - 10 minutes.

My experience with diamond stones is they are only for very fine finishing work and are useless unless you have hit it with a two sided stone.
A diamond stone sharpened edge would require constant steeling to maintain the fine edge when filleting for example.


The finer the angle the more steeling it will need to maintain the edge as your working with a finer (thinner) blade edge, so it will bend (fold) easier.

Your diamond sharpener may not be removing enough meat off the edge and you edge might need a once over with a good two sided stone.

Also no knife holds it edge for long, if they did they would be using them in abattoirs everywhere.

I found Dexter Russel knives to have quite hard steel, followed by Victory.
Also watch out for those cheap "Diamond steels", they will leave dust residue on your fillets.

Merry Christmas to all

Cheers.

[alleycat]

The biggest problem with most knives is the fat shoulder they come out of the box with, get it off with a belt sander or grinding wheel, the next must have is a steel, go to a local butcher and see how much he can obtain a boning knife for you from wholesaler, im a slaughterman and we get victorinox boners for 17 bucks..

[pipifin]

http://www.anysharp.com/

I have one of these and it is bloody awesome.

I think I have to get one just to reward them for their advertising clip......

[MudRiverDan]

Agree with above comments, will just add.

I would also regard a cheap Chinese knife as inferior steel and might not be suitable for the job.
The Chinese make some good knives for cooking but as far as cheap grade steel goes in fishing knives, it may well be a part of the problem.

Around $30.00 bucks should get you a good Victory or similar brand fillet knife.

I just use old Victorinox knives for fishing, though there are ranges available online specifically for use as filleting fishing knives.

Can be hard to source from the main retail shops though I have seen them available from online order, (F-dick, Dexter Russel, Victory, Victorinox, swibo.. all decent steel and quality with robust plastic handle).




Cheers

[tunaticer]

One of my favorite butchering knives for breaking down large animals is a 10" Kaicut knife. It has soft steel, very quick to replace the edge with two swipes of the ceramic steel, but it is effortless to use, I have used this knife for over 25 yrs now and even though it is fairly worn, it is still my go to knife for heavy work. Breaking down a bullock will see me reach for the steel maybe 10 times, that isn't much at all when it is on your hip.
I also have a martinelli rigid skinner that is hard as the hobbs of hell, but when it loses its edge its a prick to replace. Using it though is a dream.
Have two victorinox knives that see use as well but not near as much as the kaicut.

The old bread and butter knives with the bone handles that used to be around a few decades ago were bloody good steel as well and held a fine edge well plus were pretty quick to touch up. Similarly the old drop point carpet knives and the hook pointed lino knives were decent carbon steel that would take an edge and hold it well but were not flashy at all. I used to braze 6mm ball bearings to the tips of the hooked lino knives and sharpen both the heel and the inside of the knives for skinning. A quick nick with the hell then slip the ball bearing under the skin and drag the body cuts in barely 20 seconds for a whole beast. Very fast and efficient and i made dozens of them for mates.

I think way too much is in the name rather than the tool these days. A knife is a tool to use, not a status symbol.

[Tailortaker]

The biggest problem with most knives is the fat shoulder they come out of the box with, get it off with a belt sander or grinding wheel, the next must have is a steel, go to a local butcher and see how much he can obtain a boning knife for you from wholesaler, im a slaughterman and we get victorinox boners for 17 bucks..
I pay about $17 too. Will check with my sales rep next week on prices for filleting knives as well.

[rando]

Tried the glass test on my hones,,, barely made a mark,had to look real hard to see a slight discoloration.
I might have to look around for new sharpening tools.
I wonder is the fat man might bring me a Lansky tool or similiar;)

[stue2]

Yep those old Bread & butter knives are gems.
The diamond stones will require a clean fairly often. I use preen. spray it on and wait a minute. It will dissolve the grease and grime followed by a quick rinse in warm water.
I finish my knives with a translucent Arkansas. The diamond is used to knock the shoulders down only. A used diamond stone will give a better finish that a gritty new one.

Cheers Stu

[MudRiverDan]

Tried the glass test on my hones,,, barely made a mark,had to look real hard to see a slight discoloration.
I might have to look around for new sharpening tools.
I wonder is the fat man might bring me a Lansky tool or similiar;)
Look around for a new knife.

[Tailortaker]

I know a lot of people like spending money on the flash sharpening gear but seriously a good knife, an oil stone and a good steel is all that is required. Starting with a good knife is the major key and if you look in the right places or ask the right people they can be cheaper than the crap knives.
Cheers, TT

[nathank]

I think the trick is not to buy a knife where the steel is too "hard." Solingen, fdick and some global knives are like this.. Victoriaknox are cheap and the steel is quite soft..
I had an aussie made knife called "form" it got swiped and was a one piece knife like a global or similar and was the best mixture of steel i had ever had in a knife (chef for 12 years).
Anyway Victoriaknox knives are sharp straight outa the packet and if you just use a steel on them after say... every two fish you clean, they should only need a going over with a stone once a month or so.. Lastly, dont skimp on the steel otherwise you will just have to replace them all the time or they wont really work.

[chop]

I know a lot of people like spending money on the flash sharpening gear but seriously a good knife, an oil stone and a good steel is all that is required. Starting with a good knife is the major key and if you look in the right places or ask the right people they can be cheaper than the crap knives.
Cheers, TT

Where can I get a good cheap knife for filleting that I can sharpen myself? Please let me know

[Tailortaker]

Where can I get a good cheap knife for filleting that I can sharpen myself? Please let me know
Depends where you live, If your near Bribie Island I can get you one, If not go see your local butcher and ask if he could order you one. We get them far cheaper than what any chef supply store or kitchen shop will sell them for.
I might get a quote off my rep and if i think the filleting knives are a good price I will get some as well as a box of boning knives, than if anyone wants one I will pass them at cost plus postage cost if required.
Cheers, TT

[stue2]

Very true TT but some like handlines and some like top of the range rods and reals. if they want it thats cool but knowing how to use it is the secret

[Stu Dows]

Hey TT could you aquire one for me also I am happy to pick up

[whiteman]

The Lansky knife sharpening system gets plenty of rave reviews and mine is excellent so I too am a fan. This is a reliable ebay seller (no moderators, I have no connection to them) http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300494832701&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:AU:1123

[chop]

Depends where you live, If your near Bribie Island I can get you one, If not go see your local butcher and ask if he could order you one. We get them far cheaper than what any chef supply store or kitchen shop will sell them for.
I might get a quote off my rep and if i think the filleting knives are a good price I will get some as well as a box of boning knives, than if anyone wants one I will pass them at cost plus postage cost if required.
Cheers, TT

TT. Let me know if you do get some please.

[Tailortaker]

Rang the rep yesterday and he is coming in with prices on Monday, What length (in inches) blade do you's want for filleting knifes ? 8", 9 " ???? They will be victorinox but can get other brands as well.

[FishHunter]

Check out the Warthog V Sharp. Much better and quicker than my Lansky set for filleting and chef style knives.

[MudRiverDan]

74734Here are some I use, you can see the two bottom ones have had the guts ground out of them and are ready for the bin, the top one is a victory its ok for general purpose.

But I would have to say the skinner second down Victorinox is a beauty, its great for filleting fish, though if they are real big you have to go down the spine then up the other side because the blade is short, but a great all round bait cutting and filleting knife, I know it is a skinner not a fillet knife but if you hug the bones and be careful it does the job well, also fillets Flathead real easy as they are shallow bodied.

74722

[Tailortaker]

Here are some I use, you can see the two bottom ones have had the guts ground out of them and are ready for the bin, the top one is a victory its ok for general purpose.

But I would have to say the skinner second down Victorinox is a beauty, its great for filleting fish, though if they are real big you have to go down the spine then up the other side because the blade is short, but a great all round bait cutting and filleting knife, I know it is a skinner not a fillet knife but if you hug the bones and be careful it does the job well, also fillets Flathead real easy as they are shallow bodied.

74722
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[Tailortaker]

I was just looking at the King of Knifes website and noticed the following prices..
Victorinox 12cm boning knife, $39.95, I pay $18 for 15cm
Victorinox 22cm cooks knife, $59.95, I pay $34
Victorinox 20cm filleting knife, $49.95, Will let you know tomorrow what i will be paying...

[MudRiverDan]

I was just looking at the King of Knifes website and noticed the following prices..
Victorinox 12cm boning knife, $39.95, I pay $18
Victorinox 22cm cooks knife, $59.95, I pay $34
Victorinox 20cm filleting knife, $49.95, Will let you know tomorrow what i will be paying...

Yeah but your getting them wholesale.
I used to get them wholesale too, you wont get em online or retail for that price, going rate is around $26.00 - $35.00 unless your going to quite a large blade then it will be over $35.00.

Also those prices look a little bit expensive.

[Tailortaker]

Yeah but your getting them wholesale.
I used to get them wholesale too, you wont get em online or retail for that price, going rate is around $26.00 - $35.00 unless your going to quite a large blade then it will be over $35.00.

Also those prices look a little bit expensive.

Yes the prices are expensive and yes I pay wholesale,, that was my point...
You do mean the King of Knives prices are expensive don't you?

[MudRiverDan]

Yes the prices are expensive and yes I pay wholesale,, that was my point...
You do mean the King of Knives prices are expensive don't you?
yeah a bit

[chop]

I was just looking at the King of Knifes website and noticed the following prices..
Victorinox 12cm boning knife, $39.95, I pay $18 for 15cm
Victorinox 22cm cooks knife, $59.95, I pay $34
Victorinox 20cm filleting knife, $49.95, Will let you know tomorrow what i will be paying...

I think I would be happy with a 20cm filleting knife and if you are at Bribie I will pick it up when I can. I can pay before of course. As to the actual size of the knife I have no Idea what would be good.

[Tailortaker]

I have some 20 cm filetting knives on the way, will be around the $26 mark.

[chop]

I am keen. Will send you a PM.

[rando]

Fwiw.
My favourite brand of knife is Sabatier (made in France). In over 20 years in the kitchen using many different brands, that maker is my stand out brand.
They are a bit hard to find and were expensive last time I looked but that was before the Aussie$ made up some ground

[Tailortaker]

Fwiw.
My favourite brand of knife is Sabatier (made in France). In over 20 years in the kitchen using many different brands, that maker is my stand out brand.
They are a bit hard to find and were expensive last time I looked but that was before the Aussie$ made up some ground
I just looked at their web site and yes they are expensive but with everything i suppose you get what you pay for.

[reggy]

So what kind of steel makes the best filleting knives..eg 440c stainless? and what rockwell hardness ...58?

[banshee]

So what kind of steel makes the best filleting knives..eg 440c stainless? and what rockwell hardness ...58?

As important as the steel is in a knife it's not the be all and end all.Far more important is the skill of the person doing the heat treat,for example,D2 is recognised as being one of the best knife steels going for an allrounder heavey use blade (not fillet) but the only person that consistantly produces blades that don't fail is Bob Dozier,likewise 420HC is considered as being a rather mundane steel way down the list for anything but stain resistance but give this steel to Paul Bos and it surpasses a majority of more capable steels.
In general though I think you'll find the 'lower' end steels used in fillet knives.I know a lot use 420J2 at 53-54 HRC primarily because of it's very good resistance to rust and it's ability to hold a working edge at the low HRC.Those that like a stiffer blade will find a wider range of blades primarily because the less flex desired the higher wear resistance/ HRC (56-57) can be achieved.

[rando]

If you go on the Sabatier website they mention pre WWII castings and the fact that these are superior steel and now in short supply.
I am curious what they are referring to, I would have thought with advances in technology and metallurgy they would be able to make better metals now.

[TimD]

Whats the best filleting knife to buy at bcf, got a $50 voucher that i would like to spend on a new knife.


cheers tim :)

[banshee]

If you go on the Sabatier website they mention pre WWII castings and the fact that these are superior steel and now in short supply.
I am curious what they are referring to, I would have thought with advances in technology and metallurgy they would be able to make better metals now.

I'm guessing their term 'castings' could be what we call 'Bar Stock' or 'Billets' and I tend to think that todays steels are supperior to the early High Carbons.

[rando]

I'm guessing their term 'castings' could be what we call 'Bar Stock' or 'Billets' and I tend to think that todays steels are supperior to the early High Carbons.

I should have been more specific earlier .When i endorsed the Sabatier brand i was referring to their high carbon steel knives. While i like their stainless knives,,, light, balanced, good to sharpen.The carbon steel range is a delight to use & are the knives I think the best.

[TimD]

Got a new knife today with one of my vouchers, its a Swibo 16cm narrow blade filleting knife, are these knifes any good ?


Also Tailortaken if you get some 20cm victorinox filleting knifes i may take one off your hands :thumbsup:


cheers tim :)

[tunaticer]

Got a new knife today with one of my vouchers, its a Swibo 16cm narrow blade filleting knife, are these knifes any good ?
cheers tim :)

I have liked Swibo knives for a decade or so. Good honest knife that takes an edge easily and is comfortable to use.

[MudRiverDan]

The funny thing with a lot of fillet knives is they are not up to the job, mostly because they are wafer thin and flimsy.
Get some good size fish with largish ribs and your going to need a strong wrist.