trailer wheel id help please

[mac64pc]

Hi

I have a mackay multilink tandem roller trailer 1995 and it has 13" rims (5.5jjx13)

Wondering if anyone knows whether they are holden or ford

Look like 7/16 studs with 3/4 nuts and a diagonal spacing between the studs across the centre of approx 4"

have to find a new spare

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hey Mac,
Holden and everything else use 7/16" UNF studs. Ford uses 1/2"UNF studs. HT Holden is approx 108 PCD. HQ/Comm is 120mm PCD.
PCD = Pitch Circle Diameter.

Hope that helps.

Mark

[outwide1]

Measure the centre bore,say its 70mm for example,half that with your tape measure so the end of the tape is hanging in mid air and at 35mm to the edge of the bore or where the cap pushes in,then measure to the centre of the stud hole.
If you get approx 54mm its ht/torana,if its approx 60mm its hq/commodore,if its 57.1 its ford.
I have unlucky enough to been stuck in the mag wheel game for 16years and i hope how i have explained this it helps.Its so easy to do but hard to explain.
Hope this helps mate.
Mick.
I work at Oxley if you need help.

[finga]

Measure the centre bore,say its 70mm for example,half that with your tape measure so the end of the tape is hanging in mid air and at 35mm to the edge of the bore or where the cap pushes in,then measure to the centre of the stud hole.
If you get approx 54mm its ht/torana,if its approx 60mm its hq/commodore,if its 57.1 its ford.
I have unlucky enough to been stuck in the mag wheel game for 16years and i hope how i have explained this it helps.Its so easy to do but hard to explain.
Hope this helps mate.
Mick.
I work at Oxley if you need help.
But a Commodore wheel will not go on a HQ-HZ.

Measure the PCD. That is the definitive method of determining which wheel it is.
Here is how to work out the PCD. http://www.mwsint.com/TechCalcStuds.asp

Early Holden (HT) is 4.25' (107.95mm)
HQ is 4.75' (120.65mm)
Commodore is 120mm which is why a Commodore will not fit a HQ-HZ.
Ford 5 stud is usually 114.3 (same as some Japanese 5 studs)

[Noelm]

to save all the drama, just buy a universal spare, it has the spacin for Ford and Holden, 13" is under $200 from any boat store, gal rim with a Chinese light truck tyre (almost all 13" will be Holden though) but to be safe, why not find out what bearings you have for future maintenance, the whole trailer wheel/bearing things is a complete nightmare, there is Holden Foard bearings, then there is hubs to suit all sorts of combinations. like Holden bearings, but Ford stud pattern, why all manufactureres cannot "standardise" on what to use is beyond me. To make matters really confusing, I have seen a dual wheel trailer with a mix of Ford and Holden bearings from new.

[mac64pc]

Thanks

I ended up taking the spare in to the local tyre shop, apparently its a early holden HR rim. thought it strange for a '95 trailer - hoping the spare actually matched the ones on the trailer lol

looking at about $150 for new rim and LT tyre

Will check the hubs as well and get a spare

[Noelm]

yep, it would be rare to find a 13" with Ford pattern, 13' HR Holden is the same as the 14" HT pattern also, so if you wanted to go to 14" (for whatever reason) then it is easy, they changed in HQ, all early Holdens were the same PCD (stud pattern) well excpet the old FJ, but I sort of doubt there would be too many trailers with them on (but you never know)

[Noelm]

OH, I forgot, is the "tyre shop" rim Galvanised? a boat dealer will have a gal one for the same sort of money.

[mal555]

why all manufactureres cannot "standardise" on what to use is beyond me. .

totally agree!

[outwide1]

But a Commodore wheel will not go on a HQ-HZ.

Measure the PCD. That is the definitive method of determining which wheel it is.
Here is how to work out the PCD. http://www.mwsint.com/TechCalcStuds.asp

Early Holden (HT) is 4.25' (107.95mm)
HQ is 4.75' (120.65mm)
Commodore is 120mm which is why a Commodore will not fit a HQ-HZ.
Ford 5 stud is usually 114.3 (same as some Japanese 5 studs)

Yes it does,its just not advisable.Back in the day if i had a doller for every vb commodore running around on HQ wheels
i wouldnt be at work today.It does cause tention on the studs but i have seen it done.
Hey what would i know finga,ive only been running a machine shop for wheel repairs and drilling for 11 years.
I love this site for all the experts

[finga]

Yeah. They kinda fit BUT not for long. Broken studs tend to allow wheels to fall off so that tends to slow vehicles down a lot.
Commodore wheels are not made to fit Kingswoods and vise versa. Simple as that. It's not good advice telling people they fit but saying later..... yeah they can go on BUT the wheels might fall off after awhile.
Hell. Why not just drill some new holes in the rims or file out the holes to make them fit??
If they were meant to fit they'd have the same PCD at least.
Gees all those trailer supply places have wasted a lot of printing and storage listing hubs with Commodore stud pattern. They should just have HQ pattern and be done with it. I wonder why they have a separate listing for Commodore stud pattern hubs??
Why do wheels manufacturers have different fitments for early Commodores when all their HQ-HZ wheels would have gone on?

Oh hell. I lost a nut putting the HZ mags on my Commodore. A nut 7/16 hex head nut is close enough. I'll bung that on. Oh no. No 7/16 hex nuts. 10mm nut is close enough if I turn the spanner real hard. She'll be right.
You can put 165 tyres on an 8 inch rim and 265 tyres on a 4 inch too. But it's not right.

[BM]

Noel,

I don't think there can be a standardized arrangement purely because of differing load ratings.

The lowest load combination is Holden bearings inner and outer.

Next step up is a Holden outer and a Ford inner.

Then you step up to Ford inner and outer.

Then you go to a parallel setup. Same size inner and outer bearing.

Then you step up to Landcruiser type bearings.

Of course any of those hubs can be drilled to whatever stud pattern you desire. Theres no set concept other than overall load rating.

So when setting up a trailer you need to know your total weight obviously. This will then dictate whether you use 40, 45 or 50mm axles (all different load ratings) combined with the spring setup required for the total load, combined with the bearing combination to carry the load and finally the stud pattern to suit the choice of rim which must carry a tyre which has the load carrying capacity to support the total weight.

Cheers

[Noelm]

while I 100% agree, why not "standardise" on Ford for everything except maybe extra heavy duty applications?? they have the greater load apacity, yet cost no more, far better to be over engineered than under, all axles could 50mm square and we are almost at a standard for all trailers manufactured. They COULD still have differing stud patterns if they really wanted to (dont know why) but Ford also has slightly thicker wheel studs too, so they should be the "standard" also.

[BM]

Cost! If you look at all the little cost differences I guess that's why they don't standardize. And if you look at all the different load ratings for boat trailers it's hard too.

I hear what you are saying though.

I suppose they could make trailers to set load capacity groups. Say 1ton, 2ton, 3ton, 4.5ton. But that would require agreement by all manufacturers. Probably very hard to achieve and let's face it, why have a trailer rated to 2 ton when your carrying a 1300kg boat where the trailer could be several hundred $$ cheaper.

Cheers

[Moonlighter]

yep, it would be rare to find a 13" with Ford pattern, 13' HR Holden is the same as the 14" HT pattern also, so if you wanted to go to 14" (for whatever reason) then it is easy, they changed in HQ, all early Holdens were the same PCD (stud pattern) well excpet the old FJ, but I sort of doubt there would be too many trailers with them on (but you never know)

Hi Noel

Actually, the majority of 13" boat trailer rims these days are a Ford (Falcon, actually) 5 stud pattern! Yes, I know it's weird because there aren't any 13" Ford road car rims with a 5 stud pattern available any more, they are all 14", but for some reason this size and pattern is almost the standard on boat trailers these days. Certainly Dunbier, Redco and many others use that same size as standard. My Surtees trailer from NZ is std with 13 inch in that same pattern, but I upgraded to 14" and its a standard Falcon 14" rim.

13 x 5.5 JJ is a Torana pattern from the 70's, I know, as I had one! The JJ offset gives it away.

Cheers

ML

[outwide1]

All i was trying to do was give a general discription on how to measure the stud pattern without confusing him.
If you have a look at the measurements i have given there approx. half the measurements you have supplied
without going to the .65 of a millimetre.
All good and i will leave this post alone.
Cheers Mick,

[Noelm]

Hi Noel


13 x 5.5 JJ is a Torana pattern from the 70's, I know, as I had one! The JJ offset gives it away.

Cheers



ML
I always wondered what the hell JJ meant, it is the offset then? and I guess I must have slipped behind the times with the ford 13" rim thing on trailers, I just "thought" they would still be good old Holden stuff.

[outwide1]

Im back,couldnt help myself.The offset is normally marked on the rear of the wheel
and is marked as 25p meaning positive 25 offset or 0et or -25 which is a negative offset.Once it goes past 0et
this means it runs into the negative offset.Meaning the futher the centre goes back the more negative the offset.All front wheel drive cars run a positive offset these days and most if not all 4x4 are now moving into running a positive offset.Oh remember the days of deep dish wheels,now the only way to obtain that look is to design the spokes of a alloy wheel to curve differently to make it look like it has a dish.Prior to the au falcon ford were on of the last manufacturers to still run 0et or offset but now run a positive 35 offset.
The jj part is the profile of the inside of the rim where the tyre beads sit and the area that,lets say the air
is.So its the contour of the rim.