Carbon rods - can you break them on big fish

[Platitudinus]

Can anyone help me.
I have fished for kingfish and amberjack with fibre glass rods that are deemed 'unbreakable' and landed many fish between 5 and 15kgs from 80m depth on livebaits. Rods were 10-15kg or 15-24kg.
I now have a T Curve 400 spin (PE8) and a T curve 200 OH (PE5)and have hooked similar mini monsters and the rods bend double. So - can they break??? The thought of a carbon fibre rod shattering in my face is scary. Are they unbreakable like the fibreglass rods? I have had 50lb braid break on me and 80lb braid as well on huge fish that wouldn't move anyways but down into the reef, but if I get one off the bottom or a good sized Sambo can I rely on the rods?
Tks
Peter

[Daintreeboy]

All rods break mate. Load them up beyond their maximum drag capabilities and they will pop. The T curves are good rods though so if you don't high stick them with the line you are using you will have a good chance of not breaking them.

[Micadogs]

Yes, you can break them on big fish, on little fish, handling them wrong etc. It is nearly always user error if a graphite rod breaks. I have snapped a couple - highsticking as Daintree Boy above states. You get caught in the moment and forget to let drag off when gaffing a fish / bringing into boat and snap there goes the tip. I have also left a rod in the rod holder, tight drag again, and got a drink. Something grabed it and swam towards the boat. Again - snap, this time about halfway down the rod.

If you use the correct drag, handle it properly, dont bang it about you will get years and years of service from it.

Regards Adam

[Rodman]

Mate
The modern rods of today can break on any size fish,\. By this I mean that all you have to do is bang your rod on the gunnels of a boat and the rod may fracture on the inside where you cannot see it and when the rod is place under any load it will break at this weak point.
You must ensure that you treat your modern rods gently. the days of the old fibreglass rods are gone.

Ken

[Stuart]

Carbon is much stronger in compression and tension than glass. Glass is more forgiving than carbon but thats where it ends. The big problam in carbon rods isnt the carbon itself but the way they are made. Manufacturers seem to use just enough carbon to do the job at which the rod is rated to. They dont seem to grasp that a rod is going to see bigger fish and higher drag settings. Some of the manufacturers build a saftey margin into there blanks such as a lower breaking strain rating meaning what appears to be a soft rod for its given class. You may also notice many carbon blanks have a very small OD thats becuase carbon will bend much more the smaller the OD is. I have blanks here I dicked around with years ago that you can bend back on themselves much like the ugly stick add where the tip is touching the butt. Its much like a very thin peice of wire, you can bend it every which way you like. If you up that wire size to 8mm or more then it becomes much harder. Much of the mass produced carbon rods are designed and rolled to a price point so dont expect to much out of them mate. At the end of the day you simply get what you pay for.

Stu

[camw308]

Hey mate,I have snapped a T curve OH 200 on a trip to nz earlier ths year,there was no high sticking involved,it snapped were the rod blank enters the butt section,it scared the shit out of me,we were jigging for king fish at the time.

[Platitudinus]

Thanks everyone for your comments.
I look after my gear and don't high stick but it does scare me when the line is straight up and down that when I pull up and the fish pulls down, the rod might break. 50lb braid with drag set at 20kg on the 400 and 16kg approx on the 200. As you all know these fish pull VERY hard in the early stages of the fight and it is a real battle to keep them out of the reef. Once you have got them 10+m off the bottom the drag is slackened a little to enable the fight to develop.
Anyway - when the first one breaks you will all hear the shout!
Thanks
Plato

[Daintreeboy]

Also, when a fish starts taking line I lower the rod to provide a better angle for protection of the rod from snapping, especially when the fish is straight up and down. It's already turned it's head anyway. No need to lift the rod up high in an attempt to get some line back on the reel if the fish is taking drag anyway. A lot of rods are snapped when people continue the pump and wind technique and the fish is actually taking line. Taking the rod bend into the weaker bend areas should only be done when lifting a fish that has stopped it's run if that makes any sense.
Another issue is that the drag will increase when more line is lost and can be a significant increase. I'm not sure how you set your drag but imagine it's with a fairly full spool. The more line lost the more there will be an increase in drag setting as the spool diameter is less.
I can see why you are snapping your braid when using 16 kilos of drag with only 50 lb braid. I also seriously doubt the T curve 200 is rated to that maximum drag. My guess would be less than 10 kilos, probably 8. That would fit with the 24 kilo max rating of the 200 and the rule of thirds with drag.

[Micadogs]

Yeah agree with DB. If you are using 50lb line, then drag should be set at approx 16lb or 8kg. I also use 50lb braid in approx 80 metres of water. I set my drag at 6kg. At this depth, and in line with what DB states above, drag is much higher. I can barely stand up with 6kg of drag at this depth. if you need to stop bruisers at this depth and 16kg drag does it, then you will need heavier line. You can angle the rod and let the reel do the initial work so you dont need a broomstick. With 16kg at drag at 80 metres on that rod you describe, you will run a very high risk of snapping your rod if the line doesn't give.

[Platitudinus]

Thanks for these last two posts and I fully understand where you are both coming from.
However, I find that when livebaiting at depth for AJ's and/or Kingies that the drag on an OH needs to be at Sunset (even for the smaller fish) and on the spin reel at maximum to keep the fish out of the reef. I fully agree with you about the 1/3 drag setting rule, except to get the fish off the bottom when you first hook up. I have reduced the braid bust offs by lengthening the 24kg mono leader to between 15 and 20m thereby getting a little stretch into the line from the outset.
Anyway, I really appreciate the advice.
Plato

[nidrac]

Can anyone help me.
I have fished for kingfish and amberjack with fibre glass rods that are deemed 'unbreakable' and landed many fish between 5 and 15kgs from 80m depth on livebaits. Rods were 10-15kg or 15-24kg.
I now have a T Curve 400 spin (PE8) and a T curve 200 OH (PE5)and have hooked similar mini monsters and the rods bend double. So - can they break??? The thought of a carbon fibre rod shattering in my face is scary. Are they unbreakable like the fibreglass rods? I have had 50lb braid break on me and 80lb braid as well on huge fish that wouldn't move anyways but down into the reef, but if I get one off the bottom or a good sized Sambo can I rely on the rods?
Tks
Peter

Mate, as the others have said its definately possible, i've broken a Tcurve 500 OH and it was only 3 weeks old.. =S was only running 60lb braid on it hooked onto a shark with the drag up there trying to break it off, had the rod running parrallel to the water at the time so definately wasn't high sticking, it was only the 3rd fish i had caught on it so was didn't have any damage to it, i don't really know what caused it to break.
Nidrac

[Brent_P]

However, I find that when livebaiting at depth for AJ's and/or Kingies that the drag on an OH needs to be at Sunset (even for the smaller fish).
Plato,

If by "sunset" you mean "full" on a lever drag overhead, then sunset can be anything - 2kg or 20kg - it depends on where you've set the preset, using scales. I don't know if you realise that, but I was talking to someone a couple of weeks ago who uses lever drags and he didn't, so forgive me if you do.

While fishing White Island in NZ a few years back, I had my Trinidad 40N (star drag) set at 12-13kg with a full spool, when I hooked a 21kg kingfish, 80m down in over 100m of water. The fish never took more than 1-2 metres of line in one go, and at least twice I had to rest my rod arm against the side of the boat. The fish was hooked on a jig, so it wasn't gut hooked - it was hooked in the corner of the mouth. The rod was a T-curve 400 OH.

Between August and December every year, every 1-2 weeks (and sometimes more if I have time off work), I jig and livebait for kingfish and amberjack from a charter boat, off the Gold Coast. The last time I got "reefed" was over 5 years ago. I have broken my main line on a fish only once in the last 6 years, and that was on a (suspected) large amberjack, within an hour or so of boating a 14kg amberjack, on line that I've tested with scales to break at 31lb with a plait. When the line snapped, I was using almost 6kg of drag with a full spool on a Stella 5000 SW (me and the deckie tested it on my digital scales straight afterwards) - the plait was tied on the boat after I had to snap my line, after an incident with a dolphin getting tangled in my bait jigs, so it was probably badly tied.

Last year I caught numerous kingies over 10kg on jigs and livebaits, with a max drag of 8kg on a tiny Daiwa Saltiga Single Speed LD20 and a super slim 6ft Daiwa Saltist Ahi 40-50lb (PE 4/5) rod. I caught several fish over 13kg on this gear, and the biggest was 15kg and 127cm. On the bigger fish I had to thumb the spool, and got a little line burn, but I was never reefed. The braid I have on that reel breaks at around 42lb with a plait, and it never broke.

Back to your original question, I used the Tcurve 400 OH for years, with 9-13kg of drag with a full spool, without a problem. One of the regulars on Seaprobe uses a Tcurve 200 OH and really gives it heaps on the kingies. A few years ago, the guys from Doug Burts Tackleworld caught a 38kg amberjack and snapped their Tcurve 400 OH above the first or second guide (I saw a photo of it but can't remember exactly). But, in August last year, Seaprobe caught a 40kg amberjack on mono, on a Penn Spinfisher 8500 and one of those cheap Spinfisher rods that sometimes come free with the reels.

I have only seen one rod break on a fish, but I've been told about a few breaking on Seaprobe. The rod I saw break was a PE3 (30lb) Shimano Jigwrex - the guy hadn't brought his heavier rod, but he had his Stella 20000 SW mounted on it. He was using a lot of drag ("almost locked up") and the rod broke halfway through the foregrip, right where the top section ended. He took it back to Doug Burts and they just gave him another butt section.

I've never heard of anyone ending up with splinters of carbon fibre in their face (or anywhere else) after their rod has broken.

Like Daintreeboy implied, rod manufacturers usually rate their rods according to "safe" drag settings - ie. a 24kg rod can safely handle a load of 8kg (24 divided by 3 is 8). The manufacturers apparently allow some margin for error, to take high-sticking into account. High-sticking could be described as lifting your rod above 45 degrees when the fish is straight down. Also like DB said, when a big fish is running or "lunging" (what I call it when the fish gets its head turned but is not strong enough to pull heavy drag), I always lower the rod parallel to the water, if the fish is straight down.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope some of this has helped.

Cheers,
Brent.

[Platitudinus]

Hey Brent;
Thats really kind of you to write such a comprehensive response. A great deal of items covered and a good insight into how to survive the arm stretching battles out there!
A month ago I was reefed a number of times and hence I have tried to just use a gentle pump to gain a few feet off the bottom. I have found big cobia easier to move than the Aj's and I now specifically fish for the Kingies about ten turns off the bottom to keep away from the smaller fish. Sometimes success and sometimes not.
Anyway, I hope the thread has helped others who also wonder how hard to go with lighter rods.
Cheers
Plato

[Brent_P]

I usually try to have my livebaits somewhere around 7-10 metres off the bottom in 80 metres (I use multi-coloured braid). When I'm jigging, I watch the colours of the braid on the drop and stop 5-10 metres from the bottom. I'll get hit up to 40 metres or more off the bottom, so that gives me more of a chance to stop them (kingfish probably often chase jigs before striking). Last year I was lucky not to get reefed a few times - I was thinking, "That fish must be only one or two metres off".

I personally use a homemade 15ft 80-100lb Jinkai wind-on leader attached via a hawaiian clip to a 4ft 100-120lb fluorocarbon trace, but the boat's rods on Seaprobe are rigged with a different idea in mind - a 5ft 200lb+ mono leader - so even if the fish makes it to the bottom, you still stand a chance. A few times I've seen those 200lb leaders looking shredded to half their original thickness, but the customer still managed to bring the fish up. I've also seen a few kingies come up with large bloody gashes on their heads, where they've actually smashed their heads into the reef while headshaking. Sometimes you're just lucky.

Cheers,
Brent.

PS. I never use the 'gentle' approach :)
(though I've heard it often works)